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Insomnia (was Starbucks) opening in Sutton and now Howth!

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    Howth is always going to be jammers at weekends, even when it's lashing rain & freezing cold. (When the sun is shining, I dont even bother, as the traffic backed up at Sutton Cross & the hunt for parking is too much of a hassle.) If a business is going to do well out there, it needs to be able to attract business Mon-Fri also imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Growth is always going to be jammers at weekends, even when it's lashing rain & freezing cold. (When the sun is shining, I dont even bother, as the traffic backed up at Sutton Cross & the hunt for parking is too much of a hassle.) If a business is going to do well out there, it needs to be able to attract business Mon-Fri also imo.

    Wait till they build that new complex where Techrete used to be. There'll be no point trying to drive to Howth at all in that case.

    I go to Panorama for the coffee and the food. It's the best (or at least, my favourite) coffee in Dublin and the Geelong is a favourite sandwich of mine when I'm looking for something filling. The cosy atmosphere is nice but I never found the Howth place conducive to lingering as it's all high stools.

    They probably can't put up an awning as it'd block the path.

    Portmarnock I find to be better for sitting down in; OK there's no view but I'm going for the food and / or the coffee so that doesn't bother me. And the good thing is, the food and coffee is as good in both places. :)

    Starbucks can go f**k itself basically. I wouldn't drink their coffee if you paid me (though I was more or less forced to a few months back and had an Americano - it was vile and smelled like ash. Plus I wasn't paid) :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    Looked almost empty when I passed a while ago and there's a good few people out for a Monday.
    Wait till they build that new complex where Techrete used to be. There'll be no point trying to drive to Howth at all in that case.
    There's a thread in DCN on that cluster****: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057554701

    105 minutes is my personal worst for getting to Howth from the Causeway/Watermill Road - for the time being:mad:.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    Is the Dart not an option if driving is so manic? The few times I've ever visited Howth has always been by DART and therefore avoiding any traffic stress!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sutton Cross was a nightmare when I lived there just over a year ago, it was usually 10-15 minutes quicker to get off the bus at the stop before the cross than to get off at the (closer) one after. At least I know my cat is definitely traffic savvy, she was three months old when she came to live there on the cross! On a fine day it was quicker to walk to Howth. Dart is definitely quicker, but parking, etc.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    I love the Insomnia in sutton. I haven't been to the one in howth. I have had one starbucks and i was very disappointed. I would rather support Insomnia, and other independent cafes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    I love the Insomnia in sutton. I haven't been to the one in howth. I have had one starbucks and i was very disappointed. I would rather support Insomnia, and other independent cafes.

    You try Minetta next door then??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    The food in Minetta is fabulous. Really interesting and inventive. Unfortunately, all their seating is outside & their chairs outside have to be the hardest and most uncomfortable chairs I have ever sat on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Turtle_


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    The food in Minetta is fabulous. Really interesting and inventive. Unfortunately, all their seating is outside & their chairs outside have to be the hardest and most uncomfortable chairs I have ever sat on.

    I haven't tried them for the seating reason but would if there was just somewhere to sit. Hopefully they hang on until the supermarket renovations are done and move into a bigger premises.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    You try Minetta next door then??

    I haevn't as I didn't know they did tea/coffees just food.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    I haevn't as I didn't know they did tea/coffees just food.

    Their coffee is nothing to write home about, and I haven't had much experience with their food (just one sandwich once, that I felt was overpriced).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    I haevn't as I didn't know they did tea/coffees just food.

    Most places that do food, will do coffee and tea too, at the very least. It's tiny inside & their barista space is quite limited, so their selection of coffee drinks is quite small. Their hot drinks menu certainly wouldn't be as big as a Starbucks, or an Insomnia.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,624 ✭✭✭baldbear


    You try Minetta next door then??

    I love the deviled crab toastie. Savage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,102 ✭✭✭✭neris


    Nothing to do with coffee shops but Howth related, video of Howth in the 70s

    https://vimeo.com/156963557


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    baldbear wrote: »
    I love the deviled crab toastie. Savage.



    crab toastie?


    we're back baby!

    :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    Great to see a small, home grown, local business doing well. According to this, Minetta are going to open a second, bigger location in Howth.

    http://totallydublin.ie/food-drink/minetta/
    Things are only getting bigger and better for them, as Minetta intend to expand to add a second location next year in Howth. Though their currently tiny kitchen space doesn’t hold them back from running the café as well as their catering, they’re looking forward to getting to a bigger space for Minetta 2. The new location will host a restaurant and a shop, and the excitement – and the nerves – are palpable.

    Up yours Starbucks ! :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    That could well be going into where Ella was.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    Where/what is Ella?

    When I'm out in Howth, I either park up at the West Pier and hit up Howth Market (at weekends) or Wrights, Beshoffs, The Oar House, Octopussy etc etc. Or I park up at the East Pier and hit up Il Panorama or O'Connells. Everything in between tends to get over looked, especially at this time of year, when it's lashing rain and freezing cold and a leisurely stroll between the two piers isn't all that pleasurable. I wonder if most locals do the same?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    Ella was a former restaurant in the village beside Centra.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Turtle_


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Where/what is Ella?

    When I'm out in Howth, I either park up at the West Pier and hit up Howth Market (at weekends) or Wrights, Beshoffs, The Oar House, Octopussy etc etc. Or I park up at the East Pier and hit up Il Panorama or O'Connells. Everything in between tends to get over looked, especially at this time of year, when it's lashing rain and freezing cold and a leisurely stroll between the two piers isn't all that pleasurable. I wonder if most locals do the same?

    Only really one pub in-between... And that new insomnia. Most locals have their preferred haunts, ime..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    Grassroots had promise but I feel they've priced themselves out of the market. €6.50 for a falafel wrap? It'll be €7 soon, if it's not already.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Mrs Shuttleworth


    Went out to Howth yesterday to visit Il Panorama and lo and behold one of the ugliest and largest Starbucks I've ever seen is right next door.

    It looks so out of place and uncomfortable next to surrounding buildings and shopfronts.

    Who gave planning permission for this?

    Horrible.

    :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    See this: http://www.thejournal.ie/starbucks-new-dublin-complaint-2649000-Mar2016/

    Also happened in Cork, where a Starbucks opened without planning permission.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    tricky D wrote: »
    That could well be going into where Ella was.

    Would be great for them.
    It's mad how in Sutton Cross just over a year or so ago, there was nowhere except for Coffays... and now there's 3 places on the main road alone selling coffee! Great seeing everyone outside when the weather is nice.
    I was able to pop into Minetta on Sunday and thought it was fantastic! Amazing coffee and proper gourmet sandwiches. Good to see a very personal touch and real entrepreneur spirit with the owners.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    See this: http://www.thejournal.ie/starbucks-new-dublin-complaint-2649000-Mar2016/

    Also happened in Cork, where a Starbucks opened without planning permission.
    There's a few doing this kind of thing. Open up, apply for PP, sometimes seriously but also sometimes to get a few years of biz while the PP is processed or not, and then scoot. Often well-known brands.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭OleRodrigo


    The thing is, there is a demand for Starbucks among the local youth and visiting tourists. I think a mix of independents and brand chains is ideal. Too many independents and prices go up, too many brand chains and a place loses its character.

    That said, Costa would have been preferable to Starbucks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    OleRodrigo wrote: »
    The thing is, there is a demand for Starbucks among the local youth and visiting tourists. I think a mix of independents and brand chains is ideal. Too many independents and prices go up, too many brand chains and a place loses its character.

    That said, Costa would have been preferable to Starbucks.

    Big problem is the rates and the rents. Not many small, independent coffee shops and cafes can afford the premises in places like Dury St, where you are a mere stones throw from Grafton St. The big multinationals (like Starbucks) and the more successful Irish chains (like Insomnia) can.

    If Dublin City Council cared a whit about preserving local character, or giving locals entrepeneurs a dig out, they could step in and help out. I don't see that happening any time soon. The likes of Mannix Flynn may care, but he has no real authority on his own. It has to be a concerted effort from the top down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭OleRodrigo


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Big problem is the rates and the rents. Not many small, independent coffee shops and cafes can afford the premises in places like Dury St, where you are a mere stones throw from Grafton St. The big multinationals (like Starbucks) and the more successful Irish chains (like Insomnia) can.

    If Dublin City Council cared a whit about preserving local character, or giving locals entrepeneurs a dig out, they could step in and help out. I don't see that happening any time soon. The likes of Mannix Flynn may care, but he has no real authority on his own. It has to be a concerted effort from the top down.

    Definite agree. In fact, I think there's a case to be made for a grant system, linked to the protection of local culture and heritage, for independents so that they can meet the rents and make a living.

    As it is its only corporate organisations with their purchasing leverage, that can afford them ( and have been instrumental is raising them, it has to be said ).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,724 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Starbucks locations in Dublin CC, you can see they have used their saturation strategy that they've used in other cities

    ?width=620&version=2654130

    Article here
    http://www.thejournal.ie/starbucks-new-dublin-complaint-2649000-Mar2016/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    Wow. Had no idea they had so many in the city centre.

    One thing I'd be curious about, what was there before all these Starbucks moved in?

    Was it a 2 euro shop, a vaping shop, a tatty takeaway, yet another dodgy phone repair shop? Sometimes, a coffee shop moving into a street & giving people somewhere to meet and socialise isn't always a bad thing, even if its a big, bad American multinational.

    Probably not a big deal in the Drury St area, but it is in the O'Connell St area and its environs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,724 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    They have moved into all sorts really, from the former Bewleys on Westmoreland to the former newsagents at O'Connell bridge.

    I think there is of course space and a need for places like Starbucks. But what I'd question is DCC are allowing them to execute their well documented strategy of saturating an area with Starbucks like they have now done thoughout the O'Connell St to Stephens Green corridor.

    The Simpsons did a piss take of the Starbucks saturation strategy way back sometime in the late 1990's/early 2000's. And now in 2016 we have come to see it come to play out in Dublin city centre (as well as lots of other cities). Its as if life is imitating art.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    I'm not denying any of that. I'm just saying that a coffee shop opening up, where there wasn't one before, isn't necessarily a bad thing, even if its a Starbucks. On O'Connell St, Talbot St, and Henry St....how many cafes and coffee shops were there previously?

    I'm not talking about pubs or hotels that serve coffee. Nor am I talking about the coffee docks/restaurants in the various department stores like Clerys, Arnotts or Dunnes. I mean stand alone coffee shops/cafes on their own? There are not that many, not ones that I actually enjoy spending time in.....yes Ann's and Cafe Kylemore, stuck in your 1970's time warps, I am looking at you.

    In the case of Starbucks & their well known saturation policy, I am all for the DCC having a policy that they have to be at least a mile apart, or something like that. They are just taking the piss at this stage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭newacc2015


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    I'm not denying any of that. I'm just saying that a coffee shop opening up, where there wasn't one before, isn't necessarily a bad thing, even if its a Starbucks. On O'Connell St, Talbot St, and Henry St....how many cafes and coffee shops were there previously?

    I'm not talking about pubs or hotels that serve coffee. Nor am I talking about the coffee docks/restaurants in the various department stores like Clerys, Arnotts or Dunnes. I mean stand alone coffee shops/cafes on their own? There are not that many, not ones that I actually enjoy spending time in.....yes Ann's and Cafe Kylemore, stuck in your 1970's time warps, I am looking at you.

    In the case of Starbucks & their well known saturation policy, I am all for the DCC having a policy that they have to be at least a mile apart, or something like that. They are just taking the piss at this stage.

    Irish consumers tastes have changed. We never had a coffee culture like Italy, Austria or Turkey. We only now appreciate quality (Starbucks doesnt count). Most of these cafes are take aways. They have been facilitated by the fact, that Dublin City is literally becoming one glorified shopping centre/ office space. I have read that coffee is one thing that Irish consumers will not cut back on versus the cinema or dining out.

    You cant have a policy against one company. I think small Irish Chains like Coffee Angel, 3FE etc will slow down Starbucks. None of my friends go to Starbucks. It is over priced and quality is horrific. Coffee Angel etc are doing really well, as the coffee is good value and it is incredible. There is so many new independent Irish owned coffee shops in Dublin versus new starbucks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    Irish consumers tastes have changed. We never had a coffee culture like Italy, Austria or Turkey. We only now appreciate quality (Starbucks doesnt count). Most of these cafes are take aways. They have been facilitated by the fact, that Dublin City is literally becoming one glorified shopping centre/ office space. I have read that coffee is one thing that Irish consumers will not cut back on versus the cinema or dining out.

    You cant have a policy against one company. I think small Irish Chains like Coffee Angel, 3FE etc will slow down Starbucks. None of my friends go to Starbucks. It is over priced and quality is horrific. Coffee Angel etc are doing really well, as the coffee is good value and it is incredible. There is so many new independent Irish owned coffee shops in Dublin versus new starbucks.

    I'm not a big coffee drinker, in fact i rarely drink it, but I love a cup of tea. I do get take out tea probably three times a week, but never from Starbucks.

    I refuse to support a multinational, who refuses to pay there taxes here. I support smaller places like seven wonders, or irish chains like Insomnia (There are 5 of them on the one street where my college is)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Turtle_


    Actually, speaking of Starbucks, they actually have permission for the one in Howth but they've left huge dumpsters on the footpath outside that are often overfilled. They also only have one toilet.

    It just smacks of greed. Like, is that actually allowed? To only have the one toilet in a premises that seats that many people? And to leave the rubbish outside on the footpath? All the other restaurants and cafes manage to keep their refuse somewhere other than the footpath. It's unsightly. They have a second door, why didn't they use that space at the back to put in more storage space for their bins and more WCs for the customers? Oh yeah, reduces the number of tables..

    I went looking for the documentation they submitted in their planning application but the Documents tab link on the FCC website for their applications (DAC and Change of Use) don't seem to be working. Anyone else able to access them?

    I find it hard to believe that they were legitimately granted permission for dumpsters on the footpath and only one WC...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    Irish consumers tastes have changed. We never had a coffee culture like Italy, Austria or Turkey. We only now appreciate quality (Starbucks doesnt count). Most of these cafes are take aways. They have been facilitated by the fact, that Dublin City is literally becoming one glorified shopping centre/ office space. I have read that coffee is one thing that Irish consumers will not cut back on versus the cinema or dining out.

    You cant have a policy against one company. I think small Irish Chains like Coffee Angel, 3FE etc will slow down Starbucks. None of my friends go to Starbucks. It is over priced and quality is horrific. Coffee Angel etc are doing really well, as the coffee is good value and it is incredible. There is so many new independent Irish owned coffee shops in Dublin versus new starbucks.

    We never had a coffee culture, you are right about that. But we do have a culture of loving places to congregate, hangout, have a natter etc etc. That is why the likes of Bewleys became a beloved part of our cities culture, even though their milky white coffee tasted like baby vomit.

    We are not a country or city of coffee snobs. The true coffee aficionado may make the trek to Docklands for a cuppa Joe at 3fE. The average punter, shopper, day tripper up for the match or concert, office worker, tourist, or student in the city centre won't. And that is where Starbucks can make their killing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭BowWow


    Planning Permission notice now up outside former Dinghy Supplies premises, requesting change of use to Coffee Shop.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    BowWow wrote: »
    Planning Permission notice now up outside former Dinghy Supplies premises, requesting change of use to Coffee Shop.

    I wonder if that's the guy who set up in Apache?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    I wonder if that's the guy who set up in Apache?

    The Coast view cafe guy?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    BowWow wrote: »
    Planning Permission notice now up outside former Dinghy Supplies premises, requesting change of use to Coffee Shop.

    Bloody hell! I hope they're still in business. They should be billionaires and have shops all over the country. The original yacht chandler.

    Pox to get parking there, must be aiming at the walkers and cyclists.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Bloody hell! I hope they're still in business. They should be billionaires and have shops all over the country. The original yacht chandler.

    Pox to get parking there, must be aiming at the walkers and cyclists.

    That was my first thought too.

    There really is a dearth of coffee shops between Sutton Cross and Clontarf. If you don't want to deal with the traffic/lack of parking/roadworks at both ends of the coast road, there isn't really a whole lot in between, that aren't pubs. Baldoyle and the coast road end of Killbarack aren't well served either. Surprising really, as the area has a massive population and it's fairly well heeled too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,102 ✭✭✭✭neris


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Bloody hell! I hope they're still in business. They should be billionaires and have shops all over the country. The original yacht chandler.

    Pox to get parking there, must be aiming at the walkers and cyclists.

    Closed down ages ago. It wasnt a great shop and with the internet getting gear and stuff was easier from the uk plus good modern chandlers opened in swords that more people were using. They had the agency aswell for Laser boats for years which they lost to a crowd up north


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    That was my first thought too.

    There really is a dearth of coffee shops between Sutton Cross and Clontarf. If you don't want to deal with the traffic/lack of parking/roadworks at both ends of the coast road, there isn't really a whole lot in between, that aren't pubs. Baldoyle and the coast road end of Killbarack aren't well served either. Surprising really, as the area has a massive population and it's fairly well heeled too.

    They MUST be targeting the cyclists then, don't forget, the new cycleway is being upgraded.
    neris wrote: »
    Closed down ages ago. It wasnt a great shop and with the internet getting gear and stuff was easier from the uk plus good modern chandlers opened in swords that more people were using. They had the agency aswell for Laser boats for years which they lost to a crowd up north

    At one stage it was the only place on the Northside, it was a great shop pre-internet on one of the only roads to Howth! Regatta days had people queuing for very very expensive lines, rigs, vanes, cleats, blocks etc... Didn't know they lost the Laser franchise. I've been out of the loop regarding sailing. I don't think they were ever interested in business to be honest, just a small shop supporting the lifestyle. Realistically, they could have monopolised the Dublin market, even the Irish market.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    They MUST be targeting the cyclists then, don't forget, the new cycleway is being upgraded.



    At one stage it was the only place on the Northside, it was a great shop pre-internet on one of the only roads to Howth! Regatta days had people queuing for very very expensive lines, rigs, vanes, cleats, blocks etc... Didn't know they lost the Laser franchise. I've been out of the loop regarding sailing. I don't think they were ever interested in business to be honest, just a small shop supporting the lifestyle. Realistically, they could have monopolised the Dublin market, even the Irish market.

    Yep. And maybe they've seen the explosion of places to get a daycint cuppa Joe & some grub in Sutton Cross & they've decided to get a piece of the action. When I moved to Sutton 4 years ago, there was just Coffeys (which was very old fashioned) & the tiny place selling takeaway pizza. Now, there's Minetta Deli, Camille Thai, Insomnia, Starbucks and the little coffee shop and bakery inside Higgins Premium Butchers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    Can't see them doing much business along the coast. Cyclists are going to be on the other side of the road, and they'll have to cross a busy road to get there. Same with walkers along that path. Plus, at least cafes in Sutton Cross or Howth are at the end of a cycle journey, whereas the coast road location would be mid-cycle (IMO).

    As for places to get coffee from Sutton - Clontarf, Il Fornaio do coffee but I'm not sure what capacity during the day. The Raheny garden centre apparently has good coffee. There's often carts and vendors in St Anne's Park, Red Stables area. There's places in Raheny - Killester before you hit Clontarf. They just aren't on the coast road, which makes sense as it's harder to parking along there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    There is a pedestrian crossing at Bayside Blvd, which is 0.3 of a km away. You'd walk it in minute or two. There are loads of housing estates behind, it so they won't just be relying on walkers/cyclists using the coastal paths for business. Locals also won't be put off by the lack of parking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    A coffee shop with a coast view could do well.
    All the ones in Sutton are at Sutton cross.
    If they do it right, it could be a lovely spot to meet up, cyclists etc... and could get good reviews for tourists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    I wonder if that's the guy who set up in Apache?

    they were trying to change the sop beside apache into a cafe/take out place but it got rejected (i think) because of parking issues, as in total lack of parking, the Dinghy place has some spaces outside it though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Turtle_


    Don't think it's going to have views, had a look at the planning permission and it's occupying the same area of the building as the shop did.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭eviltimeban


    they were trying to change the sop beside apache into a cafe/take out place but it got rejected (i think) because of parking issues, as in total lack of parking, the Dinghy place has some spaces outside it though.

    For like two cars.


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