What age to Muzzle

SoulRock

Searched through the forums but couldnt find an answer,
So what age does a dog have to be muzzled, i have a staffy thats nearly 6 months old, and a more chilled and affectionate dog you could never meet, he has not one bad bone in his body and everyone that meets him falls in love, he is just so calm and well behaved, the thoughts of having to start muzzling him are killing me, Ive grown up with Dogs of Various breeds and know that all dogs or animals for that matter can have their moments. but the muzzle thing freeks me out, not necessarily because of the affect being muzzled has on the Dog, (ive read various reports on behaviour of a muzzled animal some say it affects their personality, some say it doesnt) its more of other peoples perception of the dog once they see it muzzled, i met a girl the other day with a beautiful staffy and the dog was muzzled and even though i know the breed well and as i said grew up with dogs, the sight of the muzzled dog kinda spooked me, i immediately thought the dog must be dangerous, although this was far from the case, i wonder then what affect my fear, which any dog can sense a mile away, has on the Dog? so im reluctant to muzzle my staffy, who is always under my control when in a public place, although as he gets bigger its likely to bring me into confrontation with the garda, just yesterday i was threatened by a garda who instead of engaging with me on the subject, proceeded to tell me i would be arrested and the dog taken from me if i didnt muzzle him, its looking like ill have to muzzle him but at what age is it a legal requirement to do so?

Shanao

Unfortunately OP, there is no age requirement, simply that a restricted breed must be muzzled. Personally, I dont muzzle mine, but doubt anyone even knows what they are. I've been asked is my fella a husky and is my bitch a lab mix(?) so few people seem to know. I do walk them on haltis however, so still have people crossing the street as they think they're muzzled. If I ever had to muzzle them, I think i would go with something like this: http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_collars_dog_leads/dog_training/education_collars/129603

marley123

I think it is @ 6mths but dont quote me on that, I remember the topic coming up somewhere else last year

SoulRock

Yea im really not wanting to Muzzle him, the restricted breeds list is a joke to be honest, could i not just say he's not a staff but a mix between a bulldog and some sort of terrier i rescued him from a kind chap in cork who was given him due to the fact that it wasnt fitting in with its family's other dog, and then i heard about him through a friend that has rescued dogs in the past so decided id take him in, (I rescued and rehomed another dog years ago) the Dog i have has no papers etc so i could just say he's a Bull dog terrier cross.. ??

Taltos

We have had to use a muzzle with one of our dogs.
Was really against it - however saying this - it is having some good side-effects - less people charge over to pet her.

She still hates the muzzle and the first few weeks were a nightmare - but we have stuck with it and she always wears the muzzle while out - have had one or two small incidents while in the muzzle that made me thankful for her wearing it. While I can control her to a point - it is everything else I can't control that I can relax a bit more about now..

When you start - just stick with it - be consistent. Have been told after a few months when they are used to the muzzle - dogs will get excited to see it as they then know it is walk time.

are you serious

A Shanao has said there is no age, so technically from the 1st walk you should be muzzling any dog that falls into the category that is covered on the restricted breed list.

I have been asked about this 6month thing before but its a little fairytale and does not exist for any dog in any way shape or form!!

Like Shanao I dont muzzle either of my Rottweilers. Recently one couple drove past done a loop and came back while my Oh was out walking them to get out and ask what breed were they and then when they found out they were like but they are so friendly they couldnt be pure breed!! :rolleyes:

Graces7

SoulRock wrote: »

Yea im really not wanting to Muzzle him, the restricted breeds list is a joke to be honest, could i not just say he's not a staff but a mix between a bulldog and some sort of terrier i rescued him from a kind chap in cork who was given him due to the fact that it wasnt fitting in with its family's other dog, and then i heard about him through a friend that has rescued dogs in the past so decided id take him in, (I rescued and rehomed another dog years ago) the Dog i have has no papers etc so i could just say he's a Bull dog terrier cross.. ??

I thought it was crossbreeds of these breeds also? May well be wrong. Is it though worth the risk of having the dog taken off you? It seems to be very hard to get the dog back once that has happened and that has to be more traumatic for him than wearing a muzzle when you are out? As Taltos says, they get use dto it and associate it with walks then.

marley123

Under the Control of Dogs (Restriction of Certain Dogs) Regulations, 1991, additional rules were imposed in relation to the following breeds of dogs in Ireland:

American Pit Bull Terrier
English Bull Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Bull Mastiff
Doberman Pinscher
German Shepherd
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Rottweiler
Japanese Akita
Japanese Tosa
And to every other strain or cross of these breeds




The regulations state the following:

These dogs, or strains and crosses of them, must be kept on a short, strong lead by a person over 16 years who is capable of controlling them.
These dogs, or strains and crosses of them, must be muzzled whenever they are in a public place.
These dogs, or strains and crosses of them, must wear a collar bearing the name and address of their owner at all times.


These rules on muzzling and leashing do not apply to dogs used by the Gardaí, the Dublin Harbour Police, State Airport Police and bona fide rescue teams in rescue operations. The rules on muzzling do not apply to guide dogs for the blind. Fines of up to €1,269.74 can be imposed for breaches of this legislation.

DBB

SoulRock wrote: »

Yea im really not wanting to Muzzle him, the restricted breeds list is a joke to be honest, could i not just say he's not a staff but a mix between a bulldog and some sort of terrier i rescued him from a kind chap in cork who was given him due to the fact that it wasnt fitting in with its family's other dog, and then i heard about him through a friend that has rescued dogs in the past so decided id take him in, (I rescued and rehomed another dog years ago) the Dog i have has no papers etc so i could just say he's a Bull dog terrier cross.. ??

It doesn't matter what you think he is, it's what the guard, dog warden, or expert witness in court thinks he is.

DamagedTrax

SoulRock wrote: »

Yea im really not wanting to Muzzle him, the restricted breeds list is a joke to be honest, could i not just say he's not a staff but a mix between a bulldog and some sort of terrier i rescued him from a kind chap in cork who was given him due to the fact that it wasnt fitting in with its family's other dog, and then i heard about him through a friend that has rescued dogs in the past so decided id take him in, (I rescued and rehomed another dog years ago) the Dog i have has no papers etc so i could just say he's a Bull dog terrier cross.. ??

erm, im not sure if you're joking or what... but you are aware a staffy IS a bulldog/terrier cross?

SoulRock

DamagedTrax wrote: »

erm, im not sure if you're joking or what... but you are aware a staffy IS a bulldog/terrier cross?

ah Yep i know that!, just looking for a solution, i know certain people in the states and uk may register their dog as a different breed/cross to get around bans, either way its a pain in the arse, and i have just found out that all Dogs on the Restricted breeds list have been banned by Dublin City Council on any of their 'Properties' council estates/flat complexes and DCC are trying to push through a ban in any parks and outdoor spaces under their control, DCC have also written to the Government to ban the Dogs on the Restricted breeds list Completely, Shocking state of affairs and one we 'have' to stand up to, Responsible Dog owners are being made to be Criminals if they have these dogs..

DamagedTrax

i know certain people in the states and uk may register their dog as a different breed/cross to get around bans

this is a bad road to go down. my girl is whats called an "irish staffie". this is just a type from different bloodlines than the typical show staffie you see in the ring, usually bred from a longer legged irish terrier.

unfortunatly in the UK a lot of pitbull owners and backyard breeders are calling their dogs "irish staffies" to get around the UK ban. unless you know the breeds it can be very easy to mix the two up. unfortunatly this is putting a lot of real irish staffies in danger because of the UKs PTS law on Pitbull "types".

dont get me wrong, i adore PBTs. beautiful, playful dogs but its not right that some owners are putting other breeds at risk.

obviously this wouldnt be an issue if the UK didnt decide on a blanket ban in the first place :-/


irish staffie IKC champ "blue boy"


a "blue" pitbull

Cherry Blossom

DamagedTrax wrote: »

irish staffie IKC champ "blue boy"

Sorry- but IKC champion of what exactly? The term 'Irish Staffie' is a makey uppy term, there is no such thing in existence and the term is not recognised by any kennel club in the world.

To be perfectly honest responsible owners know fine well what they sign up to when they take on a dog that's on the RB list and wouldn't get a dog that has to be muzzled and leashed in public unless they accept the fact that the legislation could be enforced on them.

OP - If you wish to keep walking your dog in the same places you always have at the same times you always have, you will have to muzzle your dog, if you don't - not only will you be fined but the dog could very possibly be confiscated from you and destroyed. That's certainly not a risk I would take if it were mine.

DamagedTrax

ive no idea what he's the champion of. he's got a very strong pedigree and accolades, whether it be in the ring or not. i'll try find out.

actually the term irish staffie isnt a "makey up" term. its a type derived from distinct bloodlines and is a recognised type (not seperate breed) by IKC and a few others. there are nearly 400 dogs registered as irish staffords with the IKC.

in the UK the KC refuse to recognise it as it goes against current pitbull "type" laws but interestingly enough they are advising the breeding back to taller staffords rather than the currently favoured stumpy legged type.

irish staffy bloodlines include gentleman jim, kilwickie lad & physco aswell as a few others.

whether or not you agree with different bloodlines constituting a "type" is entirely your own choice but they are recognised by a few KCs and to me the use of a different terrier in the mix definitly justifies their right to be recognised.

personally i'm not mad on the name and the "insinuations" that come with it. they're all just staffies in the end


anyway the point of my post wasnt to put the OP wide to irish staffies but to point out the dangers involved in misrepresenting your breed just to get around RB rules.

Cherry Blossom

DamagedTrax wrote: »

actually the term irish staffie isnt a "makey up" term. its a type derived from distinct bloodlines and is a recognised type (not seperate breed) by IKC and a few others. there are nearly 400 dogs registered as irish staffords with the IKC.

I wasn't aware that the IKC recognised any 'types', link to this information please.

Is this not your dog? Surely the person who owns the dog would know what competitions it has won?

DamagedTrax

major edit:

after reading up a bit more, it seems the irish staffies are indeed registered by IKC. (intercontinental kennel club) and in fact the paperwork probably isnt worth the paper they print it on because it is only a private registry.

as i know very little about showing and breeding its fair to say that im now lost what the hell are private registries?



so an irish staffy is just a name given to longer legged staffs is what i can understand of it all.

ill tell you what though, there's some amount of internet arguing on the subject :eek:

Cherry Blossom

DamagedTrax wrote: »

major edit:

after reading up a bit more, it seems the irish staffies are indeed registered by IKC. (intercontinental kennel club) and in fact the paperwork probably isnt worth the paper they print it on because it is only a private registry.

as i know very little about showing and breeding its fair to say that im now lost what the hell are private registries?



so an irish staffy is just a name given to longer legged staffs is what i can understand of it all.

ill tell you what though, there's some amount of internet arguing on the subject :eek:

So basicly (yet another) bunch of con artists set up a 'private register' so they can scam money from people by using the abbreviation IKC with the deliberate intention of misleading people into believing they are buying pups registered with the Irish Kennel Club which is what IKC stands for. The only way a dog can be a champion anything is if it has been shown by you at 'official' kennel club events which isn't even possible if it hasn't been registered with an official kennel club. No offence, but who ever you got this dog from is a first class scum-bag, con-man and puppy farmer, that whole bit about pedigree and accolades is complete BS. Sorry!

DamagedTrax

as i said earlier - that wasnt my dog, i just picked a picture on google to show the OP the similarities to a pitbull of the same colouring

the only things my girl is a champion at is snoring, farting and cat worrying

Cherry Blossom

Ah, I must have missed that part! Happy days then

eilo1

I honestly didnt think the muzzle thing was enforced unless your dog was known to the local authorities. (Im not suggesting the OP's dog is, thats just what I thought)

My long haired German Shephard is walked off lead and unmuzzled every day.

When ever the local garda pass us they normally give him a pet

I wonder if the gards are just a bit stricter on staffs than the entire RB list??

SoulRock

eilo1 wrote: »

I honestly didnt think the muzzle thing was enforced unless your dog was known to the local authorities. (Im not suggesting the OP's dog is, thats just what I thought)

My long haired German Shephard is walked off lead and unmuzzled every day.

When ever the local garda pass us they normally give him a pet

I wonder if the gards are just a bit stricter on staffs than the entire RB list??

yep its weird my pup is barely 6 months old and just finding its way/place in the world, every time im out with him it takes me an age to get anywhere as so many people stop me to ask if they can pet him and everyone engages in really good conversation with me about him and animals in general.. He is a real looker and so so friendly, and anytime any other dog might get a bit boisterous with him ie snapping etc he never fights back just runs beside me and sits or lies down, although he can get pretty boisterous himself sometimes, never ever is he close to being Dangerous.. its just a shame that this law exists.
and even more of a shame that we have certain Garda who just dont have a clue when it comes to Dogs, one instance the other day is typical, i was in Temple bar a few days back and a female Garda came over to me and my dog and she was all over him petting him and enquiring about him just generally engaging with me, she said her friend had staffys and she loved them then not two days later again in Temple bar a Garda car driving around with what i could only described as a couple a young fellas in Garda uniform, pulled up alongside me quite intimidatingly and said thats a Dangerous Dog where is his muzzle, i said as he's only young and the fact he's small i have yet to purchase a muzzle, and even then he is not a dangerous dog... well then the garda got out of the car threatened to take the Dog from me, generally hassled me, stated as if he was the Law unto himself and said do not question me, your Dog is Dangerous, and when another member of the public (who had been petting my Pup) tried to talk calmly to them he was threatened with arrest!!
all the while my pup just sat there amused, sorry for the long comment.. just wanted to explain a bit...
feckin' pain in the arse if you ask me

DamagedTrax

thats the crux of the problem. how can you introduce a law and expect the police to uphold it when half of them wouldnt know one end of a restricted breed from the other.

i spoke about this on here before - i had a traffic cop stop me one day asking why my "pitbull" wasnt muzzled. i told him she isnt a pitbull, she's a staffordshire bull. he said "oh, i didnt know they were different breeds" and then walked off. i know i should really have had her muzzled but it was dak and a quiet stretch of the canal...

but

1. why was he stopping me to ask about my dog if he doesnt know the breeds on the restricted list?
2. why was he stopping if he doesnt know the law in the first place. he clearly didnt know that staffies need to be muzzled too.
3. why was a traffic cop stopping someone about a dog in the first place.

my belief is that he stopped me because i was walking the canal, in the dark with a "vicious" dog and decided he needed to check me out, using my dog as an excuse!

are you serious

As I work in temple bar aswel I would have done the same as the female member you are talking about but I still would have asked why you didn't have a muzzle with you. What position would the female guard have been in if someone with knowledge of dogs asked her why she wasn't in fact asking why you didn't have the muzzle on your dog?

I've said before I'm against muzzling and I don't muzzle my dogs but at the same time I would not be walking them through temple bar square as I think this is just asking for trouble.

You have to realise not every guard knows every law, never mind those who work in the city centre who wouldn't come across dogs as mych as those outside the city. The lads who I work with are constantly ringing me when I'm working asking what is required for certain breeds, when possible I would go and try sort out anything when there working.

On the other side of this you have to remember not everyone is like us and love dogs. Every guard has the right to use their own discretion with every law some decide to walk on past people with dogs unleashed and unmuzzled but some don't. So this is where the difference in attitude comes out in relation to dogs and in particular those on the RB list.

The Sweeper

If you have a restricted breed dog, I would suggest the following:

• Adhere to the law. After all, if you get caught out, your dog will be the one who suffers.
• Write a letter to your local politician, and cc the office of the government minister responsible for the law. Be calm and focus on 'scientific evidence' around the legislation.
• Don't mention pitbull terriers in your letter - the media hype has been so effective that playing the pitbull card loses you the argument. Focus on statistical evidence, use of taxpayers funds for ineffective legislation and how it's better to use proven methods for animal control.
• Politely request a reply to your communication.
• Every time you get pissed off putting a muzzle on your dog, write another letter.

Graces7

eilo1 wrote: »

I honestly didnt think the muzzle thing was enforced unless your dog was known to the local authorities. (Im not suggesting the OP's dog is, thats just what I thought)

My long haired German Shephard is walked off lead and unmuzzled every day.

When ever the local garda pass us they normally give him a pet

I wonder if the gards are just a bit stricter on staffs than the entire RB list??

You are expecting the gardai to know the law... lol .Most will have no clue

Graces7

garkane wrote: »

As I work in temple bar aswel I would have done the same as the female member you are talking about but I still would have asked why you didn't have a muzzle with you. What position would the female guard have been in if someone with knowledge of dogs asked her why she wasn't in fact asking why you didn't have the muzzle on your dog?

I've said before I'm against muzzling and I don't muzzle my dogs but at the same time I would not be walking them through temple bar square as I think this is just asking for trouble.

You have to realise not every guard knows every law, never mind those who work in the city centre who wouldn't come across dogs as mych as those outside the city. The lads who I work with are constantly ringing me when I'm working asking what is required for certain breeds, when possible I would go and try sort out anything when there working.

On the other side of this you have to remember not everyone is like us and love dogs. Every guard has the right to use their own discretion with every law some decide to walk on past people with dogs unleashed and unmuzzled but some don't. So this is where the difference in attitude comes out in relation to dogs and in particular those on the RB list.

You are dicing with danger if you refuse to muzzle, and it is your dogs who stand to suffer. Irresponsible ownership.

SoulRock

Graces7 wrote: »

You are dicing with danger if you refuse to muzzle, and it is your dogs who stand to suffer. Irresponsible ownership.

What happens if my Dog is attacked and cant defend its self? plus at 6 months he's still developing, especially mentally, ive known other dogs on Muzzles that totally change character once the muzzle is on.. and also the fact that people tend to give you a wide berth with a muzzled dog, thus the Dog sense's this and then this has a another Negative effect.. twice other Dogs have gone at my dog, both not on the RB list, luckily, being a responsible owner i had him on a short lead and was in full control of him, he didnt even retaliate, so whats Responsible ownership? obeying a ridiculous Law brought in by Politicians that Fecked up this country in so many other ways... Anyway statutes and acts can only be used if you consent to them, but thats a whole other thread.. may get him a cheep Muzzle when he gets a bit bigger and let it hang off his collar.. grudgingly

DamagedTrax

being honest i could live with the muzzle if they were allowed off lead once the muzzle was on properly but im lucky that my girl has never had an issue with the muzzle and gets excited when she sees it cause she knows its walk time.

tk123

SoulRock wrote: »

twice other Dogs have gone at my dog, both not on the RB list(

OP you need to allow for the type of owner who has NO responsibility for their dog and blames everyone else - if the wrong dog attacks your dog and he does fight back (bear in mind he's a pup now and will probably get braver as he gets older) they could use the fact that he's not wearing a muzzle against you and follow it up with the dog warden. Once he gets a bit older people will start to give him a wide berth anyways - muzzle or no muzzle. Some people don't like dogs, or only like small fluffy dogs, or only like dogs of a certain colour, or don't want them near their kids and practically grab them and jump away like a bomb is going to go off etc etc - it's just the way it is.

Vel

As someone who would love to adopt a staffie at some stage in the distant future I am wondering do they define what kind of muzzle must be used? I would hate the thought of having to use a full basket type muzzle but wonder would one of those halti headcollar type muzzles be acceptable under this law?

DamagedTrax

muzzle isnt defined. i use a canvas one thats nice and loose on her. i dont know the law regarding haltis but i see a lot of people using them on RBs

Graces7

SoulRock wrote: »

What happens if my Dog is attacked and cant defend its self? plus at 6 months he's still developing, especially mentally, ive known other dogs on Muzzles that totally change character once the muzzle is on.. and also the fact that people tend to give you a wide berth with a muzzled dog, thus the Dog sense's this and then this has a another Negative effect.. twice other Dogs have gone at my dog, both not on the RB list, luckily, being a responsible owner i had him on a short lead and was in full control of him, he didnt even retaliate, so whats Responsible ownership? obeying a ridiculous Law brought in by Politicians that Fecked up this country in so many other ways... Anyway statutes and acts can only be used if you consent to them, but thats a whole other thread.. may get him a cheep Muzzle when he gets a bit bigger and let it hang off his collar.. grudgingly

Reality is simply that this IS the law and that there are penalties for breaking it. Period.

Your negative attitude will of course affect how your dog reacts to the muzzle; as others have said, they start to associate it with walks as they do everything else. Mine go crazy as soon as I start to put the wellies on.

Responsible ownership is not doing anything to endanger your dog. Great that you have such wonderful control over him ... But still endangering him if you don't muzzle in public.

Simple as that.

ppink

SoulRock wrote: »

What happens if my Dog is attacked and cant defend its self? plus at 6 months he's still developing, especially mentally, ive known other dogs on Muzzles that totally change character once the muzzle is on.. and also the fact that people tend to give you a wide berth with a muzzled dog, thus the Dog sense's this and then this has a another Negative effect.. twice other Dogs have gone at my dog, both not on the RB list, luckily, being a responsible owner i had him on a short lead and was in full control of him, he didnt even retaliate, so whats Responsible ownership? obeying a ridiculous Law brought in by Politicians that Fecked up this country in so many other ways... Anyway statutes and acts can only be used if you consent to them, but thats a whole other thread.. may get him a cheep Muzzle when he gets a bit bigger and let it hang off his collar.. grudgingly

the one thing i would add is that I wish I had put muzzles on our guys when they were small to get them used to them. when they got older they were not happy with them on. One of ours sits in a huge sulk and wont budge for ages and the other would nearly flatten you trying to "scratch" off the muzzle:rolleyes:.
I have never really had any bad reaction to my dogs even with the muzzles. I did just pick up nice black cage ones which blend in nicely with their muzzles and allow them to pant and drink. our old GSD ripped apart a nylon one before when a collie made him mad:eek: