Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

the dutch dont want tourists anymore

  • 15-12-2011 7:59pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭


    It seams the end has come for holidays in Holland. And with that, my faith in the European project (if the euro wasn't enough). anyone else think its pressure from other Euro country's to conform? Not Portugal obviously.

    prohibition = failure.


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1215/breaking52.html


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    The reputation of the Netherlands as the go-to country for a legal joint will begin to vanish like a puff of smoke next year as sales to foreigners of cannabis and hashish in coffee shops are banned.
    The Dutch government has been clamping down on the sale of soft drugs since 2007 because of gang-related crime and concern about the risk to health, particularly as stronger forms of cannabis have been introduced.
    "The Dutch drugs policy's appeal to foreign users has to be reduced," Dutch Security and Justice Minister Ivo Opstelten said in a letter to parliament.
    "Drug use by minors will be strongly discouraged and in particular, vulnerable young people will be protected against drug use," the minister added.
    The new rules, which will first take effect in the south and gradually be extended countrywide, limit sales of cannabis to residents of the Netherlands who must enrol as members of a coffee shop, the minister said.
    The rules will come into effect from January 1st, 2012, but will not be enforced until May 1st, starting in the three southern provinces where drug tourism is most common and regarded as a problem by many local residents.
    The rest of the country, including Amsterdam, whose drugs scene is a tourist magnet, will enforce the new rules from January 1st, 2013.
    From that year onwards, a coffee shop can have a maximum of 2,000 members.
    The Dutch government, whose push for a stricter drugs policy is led by the Christian Democrats party, will forbid any coffee shops within 350m of a school, with effect from 2014.
    The government in October launched a plan to ban what it considered to be highly potent forms of cannabis - known as "skunk" - placing these in the same category as hard drugs such as heroin or cocaine.
    This is old news?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Do you think people only go to the netherlands for dope?:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,672 ✭✭✭elefant


    I'm in Amsterdam at the minute, and I'm reading about this on boards all the time, but I won't believe it until it actually happens.

    How can they enforce this? What stops someone buying weed for someone else?

    And this part of the article
    The Dutch government, whose push for a stricter drugs policy is led by the Christian Democrats party, will forbid any coffee shops within 350m of a school, with effect from 2014.- I'm fairly sure this has been the case for years already.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    They have been saying this for a while. I'll believe it when I see it.


    In other news, Amsterdam removes ban due to tourism down 90% in the second quarter of 2012. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    elefant wrote: »
    I'm in Amsterdam at the minute, and I'm reading about this on boards all the time, but I won't believe it until it actually happens.

    How can they enforce this? What stops someone buying weed for someone else?

    And this part of the article
    The Dutch government, whose push for a stricter drugs policy is led by the Christian Democrats party, will forbid any coffee shops within 350m of a school, with effect from 2014.- I'm fairly sure this has been the case for years already.

    Good luck enforcing it is right.

    Meanwhile in Spain and Switzerland......
    Cannabis Legal and Regulated in Spain for 2012

    Following news that Switzerland will permit its residents to grow 4 cannabis plants for personal consumption from January 1st 2012, The Basque Parliamant in Spain has followed suit. A new law bill will officially regulate the cultivation, sale and consumption of cannabis in the Basque region from 2012.

    The Basque Region of Spain will regulate cannabis markets in 2012
    Furthermore the Basque regions natonal health authority has denounced cannabis prohibition.

    The leading health official in the region is Rafael Bengoa, who said ""We do not want to be prohibitionists".
    "The consumption and possession of cannabis are regulated by the penal code and by the law on citizen security."

    "For the new ruling, for which technical and legal studies have been undertaken, the regional government wants to open a debate with associations in favour of consumption and to shape their rights".

    Jesus Maria Fernandez also works for the Basque Health Authority.
    Mr Fernandez told reporters "It is better to regulate than to ban."

    "The consumption of cannabis is a practice that is already consolidated," he concluded.

    The Basque actions on cannabis are sure to fly in the face of America's 'absolutely no cannabis is good cannabis' policy and once upon a time would have lead to sanctions being placed upon Spain.

    Today however cannabis is so much a part of European life no one takes much notice of how it stands legally anymore.

    But for the Basque region of Spain and its many cannabis social clubs its hoped this law change will put an end to the practice of kicking down the front doors of otherwise perfectly law-abiding citizens simply because they prefer cannabis over alcohol.

    http://pr.cannazine.co.uk/2011121315...-in-spain.html


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭teddansonswig


    galwayrush wrote: »
    Do you think people only go to the netherlands for dope?:rolleyes:


    i think non-stoner oap's go once to the Netherlands to look at Van Gogh
    they are killing off any repeat trips. american kids wont bother in their thousands.
    I do feel for the dutch having to deal with the masses of unwashed stoners and out of their head brit army folk, only solution is eurowide decriminalization

    very old news alright but some reason its in reuters/irishtimes this eve

    dam christians.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    The kind of tourists that just go over for drugs I'm fairly sure the Dutch can do without.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Can't imagine this is very popular in the Dam..


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    biko wrote: »
    The kind of tourists that just go over for drugs I'm fairly sure the Dutch can do without.

    Generalization much?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭teddansonswig


    biko wrote: »
    The kind of tourists that just go over for drugs I'm fairly sure the Dutch can do without.

    same could be said for people visiting ireland for the craic.
    we could do without.
    oh no wait, they bring in a fortune in airport/drink/walking taxes


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭HovaBaby


    WTF is wrong with cannabis being legalized?

    Tom here get's a stern warning for possessing cannabis, he has a peaceful smoke on a Saturday night. 2 years down the line he gets a fine. Meanwhile drunks drive around the place causing deaths, beating up their wives and messing up their families. Oh, and die from liver failure.

    I raise my flag to the Swiss and Spanish, at least they have some common sense. Hopefully Ireland will have some common sense too, someday. Once the current crop of old-timers TD's die out, and the OAP's who would protest morning, noon and night if Cannbis was close to being legalized die out too, maybe it'll happen. In the meantime people need to go to interbred scumbags who'd cut you in less than a second to get some weed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭HovaBaby


    bump


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    anyone else think its pressure from other Euro country's to conform?

    It's from an overly conservative government, they had planned this since before they had been elected.

    I heard about this last year so myself and a few mates booked our tickets and had great craic in October.

    End of an era.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,205 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    HovaBaby wrote: »
    WTF is wrong with cannabis being legalized?

    Tom here get's a stern warning for possessing cannabis, he has a peaceful smoke on a Saturday night. 2 years down the line he gets a fine. Meanwhile drunks drive around the place causing deaths, beating up their wives and messing up their families. Oh, and die from liver failure.

    Sounds like the answer would be to make alcohol illegal rather than legalize cannabis


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 440 ✭✭eurofoxy


    it was brought in by the mayor of maastricht as part of a plan to remove drug running through maastricht..the original plan was to move coffee shops from the centre of the town but that was not approved,

    It was then put forward by the amsterdam council to try to stop the drug tourism problems of late, basically it is just to get rid of the large amount of junkies who just hang out at coffee shops all day who are not dutch residents and who will never become dutch residents for what ever reasons.

    however the plan had to be changed at the last minute so people who can prove they are resident or people holding belgian and german passports are also exempt.

    They also want to get rid of the english stag nights they cause more hassle than they are worth and also as stated above drug tourism is something that they wish to get rid of...its also the reason why the famous red light district is now much smaller than a few years ago, amsterdam wishes to change its image...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Sounds like the answer would be to make alcohol illegal rather than legalize cannabis

    Except that worsens problems, as history shows.

    Plus, people wouldn't want it outlawed anyway, which leaves a big stench of hypocrisy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Goodnight sweet weed , this to me is like banning muslims from mecca


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭HovaBaby


    eurofoxy wrote: »
    it was brought in by the mayor of maastricht as part of a plan to remove drug running through maastricht..the original plan was to move coffee shops from the centre of the town but that was not approved,

    It was then put forward by the amsterdam council to try to stop the drug tourism problems of late, basically it is just to get rid of the large amount of junkies who just hang out at coffee shops all day who are not dutch residents and who will never become dutch residents for what ever reasons.

    however the plan had to be changed at the last minute so people who can prove they are resident or people holding belgian and german passports are also exempt.

    They also want to get rid of the english stag nights they cause more hassle than they are worth and also as stated above drug tourism is something that they wish to get rid of...its also the reason why the famous red light district is now much smaller than a few years ago, amsterdam wishes to change its image...

    Having a couple of drug tourists is not a lot worse than having alcohol legalized. Go into town on a Saturday night at 2-3AM.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭HovaBaby


    Goodnight sweet weed , this to me is like banning muslims from mecca

    Don't worry, the Swiss and the Spanish have allowed people to grow their own stuff recently, maybe it is the start of something new.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    Legalising cannabis is alright, but it needs to be done across the EU all at once, otherwise you'll get troublesome elements like the Dutch did.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,205 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    HovaBaby wrote: »
    Don't worry, the Swiss and the Spanish have allowed people to grow their own stuff recently, maybe it is the start of something new.

    You are right. Lets make alcohol illegal. And I do drink :) Let's do it. It's essentially a form of poison anyway, let's do it. Who's with me?

    No takers?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Leaving aside the cannabis side of it for a minute, I'm pretty sure bringing in a law that you can only sell a product, any product to your own countrymen is both discriminatory and against EU rules governing freedom of trade etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 712 ✭✭✭AeoNGriM


    biko wrote: »
    The kind of tourists that just go over for drugs I'm fairly sure the Dutch can do without.

    Yes and no, I can see what you're saying alright but it's the ones who overdo it along with the alcohol that are the real problem.

    Take me for example. I love my weed, not a huge drinker though. I've often popped over to Amsterdam with a friend or by myself, primarily to have fun in the coffeeshops. I get high, read a book, listen to music, chat to the locals and the other tourists and behave myself. I'm there to smoke weed and experience the culture and the city, and it's something I really enjoy.

    It's the 20 man stag parties that get mouldy drunk and then invade a coffeeshop loudly demanding 'the good sh!t' and then puke all over the place, hassle the girls in De Wallen (Red Light District) and fall into the canals that are the problem tourists the Dutch can do without.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭onlyrocknroll


    Yakult wrote: »
    Generalization much?

    I don't think so.

    I've been to the Netherlands many times, and I've visited coffee shops while I was there, but it certainly wasn't the reason that I visited. It's a country with very beautiful cities and a rich culture.

    By all means buy some cannabis while you're there if you want to, but if that's the only reason that you've visited then you're probably not the type of tourist worth bothering about.

    Take the previous poster who mentioned "OAPs" who go "look at Van Gogh" for instance...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    You are right. Lets make alcohol illegal. And I do drink :) Let's do it. Who's with me?

    Al Capone?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,669 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Leaving aside the cannabis side of it for a minute, I'm pretty sure bringing in a law that you can only sell a product, any product to your own countrymen is both discriminatory and against EU rules governing freedom of trade etc

    The district of Maastricht already won their case at EU level, the court accepting that what they were proposing didn't contravene any EU law.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    You are right. Lets make alcohol illegal.

    Your strawman isn't even subtle.

    Most people at least try to hide their strawmen with logic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,205 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Legalising cannabis is alright, but it needs to be done across the EU all at once, otherwise you'll get troublesome elements like the Dutch did.

    My prediction is, in the next 5 or so years it will be legalized and we will still get troublesome elements that we get today. Most of the drug runners in Holland aren't even Dutch, they are Turkish.

    Obama was expected to move towards legalization in the States, instead he passed a law to make anything with over 9% potency a class A drug. So, if it is made legal in EU, it would be made with a similar restriction on potency, people will think it's "sh!t weed man" and look for stronger stuff, either stronger weed from drug dealers or Cocaine, Acid, Heroin etc.

    That's my prediction anyway


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Obama was expected to move towards legalization in the States
    Obama made it very clear from early on he was in no way interested in legalizing cannabis.
    either stronger weed from drug dealers or Cocaine, Acid, Heroin etc.
    Gateway drug? Really?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    galwayrush wrote: »
    Do you think people only go to the netherlands for dope?:rolleyes:
    No but the people who regularly go to Amsterdam for smoke will stop going. I've been to Amsterdam, it's a lovely city but I've seen it now I have no reason to go back other than to sit in a coffeeshop smoking weed.

    Overall the Dutch aren't that friendly, Rotterdam is very, very different from the tourist trap of Amsterdam and they don't give a flying fig for tourists they'd rather not see outsiders at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,205 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Obama made it very clear from early on he was in no way interested in legalizing cannabis.

    Gateway drug? Really?

    I don't believe it's a gateway drug right now....I think if someone is dumb enough to do coke or heroin or whatever, they are going to do it. Natural selection and all that.

    I'm saying if you restrict it do be too weak when legalized people will move onto find a stronger drug...you disagree?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭onlyrocknroll


    Actually it's a good point.

    It's just like the Parisian culture of drinking absinthe in cafes, for which it was a famous tourist destination.

    When the French banned absinthe in the early twentieth century, it completely destroyed the tourism industry in Paris for ever.

    Didn't it...?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,669 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Actually it's a good point.

    It's just like the Parisian culture of drinking absinthe in cafes, for which it was a famous tourist destination.

    When the French banned absinthe in the early twentieth century, it completely destroyed the tourism industry in Paris for ever.

    Didn't it...?


    Amsterdam is not Paris.

    Amsterdam has little to lend itself to tourism othan than its coffee shops, and liberalism in other matters.
    A few nice museums and decent architecture, but realistically nothing to seperate it from a dozen identical cities in Belgium and Germany.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    I'm saying if you restrict it do be too weak when legalized people will move onto find a stronger drug...you disagree?

    If you restrict it to be too weak people will get the weed they like from the same place they currently do. That does not lead to other drugs for the vast majority of people.

    HovaBaby also directly referred to other countries that are allowing personal cultivation, which would not, or could not, allow restrictions on potency.

    The US has a culture of 0 tolerance, or at least the Government does, and cannot be seen to shift from that. We would base our policies off of other EU countries, not the US.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭onlyrocknroll


    Amsterdam is not Paris.

    Amsterdam has little to lend itself to tourism othan than its coffee shops, and liberalism in other matters.
    A few nice museums and decent architecture, but realistically nothing to seperate it from a dozen identical cities in Belgium and Germany.

    ....which have huge bustling tourism industries. :confused:

    Ever been to Bruge for instance, about a tenth of the size of Amsterdam, has far less to offer culturally, and is one of the most visited cities in the world.

    Far more people travel for culture and architecture than they do for access to legal drugs, it supports the tourism industry in most European cities.

    And btw Amsterdam is a very beautiful city, I've been many times, and I will return despite this rule.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Wompa1 wrote: »

    I'm saying if you restrict it do be too weak when legalized people will move onto find a stronger drug...you disagree?

    Like the way beer drinkers move on to poitin............. yeah.
    Have you moved on to poitin yet Wompa1?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    I'm saying if you restrict it do be too weak when legalized people will move onto find a stronger drug...you disagree?
    It will be hard to control the strength of weed, once you get to a legalised system as they have in California the quality will go up measurably. The Californian scene has more in common with wine or gourmet food, people buy weed for specific tastes and effects. The weed is clearly labelled with THC and CBD content. People generally don't just buy the strongest weed, they buy small amounts of different varieties.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,205 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    mikom wrote: »
    Like the way beer drinkers move on to poitin............. yeah.
    Have you moved on to poitin yet Wompa1?

    nah, Vodka and Whiskey. Sometimes if I'm looking to get pretty drunk I might drink a bottle of Buckfast at the start of the night rather than beer or get a beer with more that 5%...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭Stiffler2


    They've been saying this for years, it won't happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭HovaBaby


    I've been to Amsterdamn myself twice (2006 and 2008), each time I headed over by myself. I admit the legal cannabis played a part, but I visited the Van Gogh museum each time and other attractions. I walked around the place, even through the red light district but I didn't visit a prostitute. Never touched a drink either.

    I enjoyed the city very much, I took pictures of the architecture and used the underground train for the novelty of it. I also deliberately took a bus from Amsterdam to London (where I flew back from Heathrow) so I could get a view of the dutch countryside.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,095 ✭✭✭Liamario


    Do people realise that to legalise it in this country would be the worst decision ever. This country has a problem and it's the inability to consume things in moderation. Alcohol and cigarettes for example.
    What do you think will happen if cannabis is legalised in this country?!?!?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    nah, Vodka and Whiskey. Sometimes if I'm looking to get pretty drunk I might drink a bottle of Buckfast at the start of the night rather than beer or get a beer with more that 5%...

    Worrying.

    Liamario wrote: »
    Do people realise that to legalise it in this country would be the worst decision ever. This country has a problem and it's the inability to consume things in moderation. Alcohol and cigarettes for example.
    What do you think will happen if cannabis is legalised in this country?!?!?

    Yeah remember how the country collapsed when the laws on pornography and condoms were slackened off.
    Ridin' in the streets......
    No moderation......... spunk everywhere.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭HovaBaby


    Liamario wrote: »
    Do people realise that to legalise it in this country would be the worst decision ever. This country has a problem and it's the inability to consume things in moderation. Alcohol and cigarettes for example.
    What do you think will happen if cannabis is legalised in this country?!?!?

    Well the situation won't be any worse than it is with alcohol legal IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭Nothingbetter2d


    It seams the end has come for holidays in Holland. And with that, my faith in the European project (if the euro wasn't enough). anyone else think its pressure from other Euro country's to conform? Not Portugal obviously.

    prohibition = failure.


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1215/breaking52.html

    lol legalise it & tax it here and watch our tourism increase :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭HovaBaby


    lol legalise it & tax it here and watch our tourism increase :)

    Yes, legalize it as in the model of Spain and Switzerland. ie allow people to cultivate their own without fear of conviction. Legalizing it doesn't mean having to put up 5 coffee shops on O' Connell street.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Liamario wrote: »
    Do people realise that to legalise it in this country would be the worst decision ever. This country has a problem and it's the inability to consume things in moderation. Alcohol and cigarettes for example.

    The difference is even extreme use of cannabis is far less dangerous than those mentioned, posing no overdose risks and little, if any, long term negative health effects.

    There's also a huge flaw in the idea that if it's legalized there would be a massive jump in the number of users. There may be a small jump but you would not see people on every corner smoking joints as some seem to believe. It may even drop; both Netherlands and Portugal (who have decriminalization laws regarding it) have lower rates of cannabis smokers than Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,095 ✭✭✭Liamario


    mikom wrote: »
    Yeah remember how the country collapsed when the laws on pornography and condoms were slackened off.
    Ridin' in the streets......
    No moderation......... spunk everywhere.

    Don't be silly, you're comparing chalk to cheese. The last thing this country needs is more substances to get ****ed up on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,915 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    I don't believe it's a gateway drug right now....I think if someone is dumb enough to do coke or heroin or whatever, they are going to do it. Natural selection and all that.

    I'm saying if you restrict it do be too weak when legalized people will move onto find a stronger drug...you disagree?

    Im saying most people who take drugs drank milk as children therefore the answer is to ban milk :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,669 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Ever been to Bruge for instance, about a tenth of the size of Amsterdam, has far less to offer culturally, and is one of the most visited cities in the world.

    I was surprised by this so had a look at various lists of most visited cities and am struggling to see Bruges on any Top 100 in the world lists, let alone be 'one of the most visited cities in the world'.

    e.g.
    http://www.joejourneys.com/journals/Joe_Journeys/Blog/Entries/2010/4/3_TOP_100_MOST_VISITED_CITIES_-_2009.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 44 eleven1


    i think i heard about this few years ago , i guess now it is becoming a reality , also i think they closing down the red districts of Amsterdam , i'm not sure who is behind these decisions , the Dutch government or Brussels . but it sounds like a major change to Amsterdam's image , these 2 reasons were the backbone of tourism in this city , let's wait and see how is this going to affect it now .


  • Advertisement
Advertisement