Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

donalg1 · 08-02-2012 7:49pm

tayto lover wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Ha ha good one so you won't answer my question then just throw your toys out of the pram and try come up with a silly insult. Think you need to be heading to the junior section.

It was a very straight forward question and your childish response proves to me that you are unable to act like an adult

Now I know what the other posters mean abaout you. Troll-o-lol-o-lol.

I think you should check the meaning of the word troll tayto. I ask you a direct question I make it the easiest question possible for you and you respond with an insult.

Pretty obvious who the troll is tayto.

squod · 08-02-2012 8:05pm

donalg1 wrote: »

Its €2 a week everyone can afford that, I dont think I need to prove it as it is common sense to assume people can afford it.

Where do I start? I can't afford it! Loads of people I know can't afford it. I can't even afford my own asthma medication.

Do you know what? Even if I had that kind of money to waste I'd rather see it burn before my eyes than read about it being squandered on something stupid.

donalg1 · 08-02-2012 8:06pm

squod wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Its €2 a week everyone can afford that, I dont think I need to prove it as it is common sense to assume people can afford it.

Where do I start? I can't afford it! Loads of people I know can't afford it. I can't even afford my own asthma medication.

Do you know what? Even if I had that kind of money to waste I'd rather see it burn before my eyes than read about it being squandered on something stupid.

I can't afford my asthma medication either but will still be paying this charge and then spend weeks trying to gather enough for my inhalers bit of careful budgeting and I'll manage.

tayto lover · 08-02-2012 8:10pm

donalg1 wrote: »

I think you should check the meaning of the word troll tayto. I ask you a direct question I make it the easiest question possible for you and you respond with an insult.

Pretty obvious who the troll is tayto.

Maybe if you read the thread you will discover what posters think but if you are just going to try and insult the intelligence of posters then you will get what you get.

squod · 08-02-2012 8:15pm

donalg1 wrote: »

I can't afford my asthma medication either but will still be paying this charge and then spend weeks trying to gather enough for my inhalers bit of careful budgeting and I'll manage.

Jaysus. There is no getting through. I really think you need some third party independent advice on this. Would your doctor recommend prioritising some useless tax over your health? Would anyone (aside from you)?

donalg1 · 08-02-2012 8:16pm

tayto lover wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

I think you should check the meaning of the word troll tayto. I ask you a direct question I make it the easiest question possible for you and you respond with an insult.

Pretty obvious who the troll is tayto.

Maybe if you read the thread you will discover what posters think but if you are just going to try and insult the intelligence of posters then you will get what you get.

I read the thread tayto. You don't seem able to read though otherwise you would answer questions when asked. And show me where I have insulted anyone any more than you? And what exactly is it that I will get please enlighten me would be great to hear?

lividduck · 08-02-2012 8:17pm

donalg1 wrote: »

I can't afford my asthma medication either but will still be paying this charge and then spend weeks trying to gather enough for my inhalers bit of careful budgeting and I'll manage.

I have paid the tax, however I resent it. You earlier stated that you had PROVED that €2 per week was affordable to everyone, I asked you which post you had proved it in. You response was trite, amd failed totally to address the issues I raised.
Having trawled back through the posts on this thread I note that you seem bent on inciting an emotional response from the anti-campaign in order to somehow portray yourself as superior or more civic minded than them. while I abhor totally some of the scandelous name calling and misrepresentation on their part I can only presume your sole purpose on posting at all is to provoke such a response.
YOU PAID FOR YOUR REASONS, I PAID FOR MINE, BUT DOESN'T MAKE US SUPERIOR IN ANY WAY TO THOSE WHO CANT PAY!
90,000 MORTGAGES ARE COMPROMISED TO SOME DEGREE , IF 90,000 PEOPLE CANT PAY THEIR MORTGAGES HOW THE HELL CAN YOU ARGUE THAT THEY CAN AFFORD THIS NEW TAX?

donalg1 · 08-02-2012 8:18pm

squod wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

I can't afford my asthma medication either but will still be paying this charge and then spend weeks trying to gather enough for my inhalers bit of careful budgeting and I'll manage.

Jaysus. There is no getting through. I really think you need some third party independent advice on this. Would your doctor recommend prioritising some useless tax over your health? Would anyone (aside from you)?

No but my point was through some careful budgeting I can do both so no need to prioritise one over the other.

steddyeddy · 08-02-2012 8:21pm

This government lacked the balls to seek a write down in our debt but had the brass neck to go for the easy option and tax the people, many of whom cant afford it. Not supporting that stance to be honest.

RandomName2 · 08-02-2012 8:23pm

donalg1 wrote: »

Shush and please don't try patronise me. As I have stated on numerous occasions this thread is about the household charge which is €100 so that is what's being discussed here. So when that changes we will discuss the new levels then as it is quite hard to talk about something when you only have imaginary figures to go on.

Ok so do you understand? Doubtful that you do but sure hey!!!

Don't mean to interrupt the mud slinging between you and tayto lover but it is very obvious that the tax is going to be multiples of its current form next year. You might say that that is merely hypothetical (despite the fact that the government has promised such an increase), but you could equally say that the €100 property tax is hypothetical and that it may be abolished next week with people who have already paid it being refunded.

I mean, in all seriousness, €100 is neither here nor there. Most of us here could earn it in a day or two (provided that you have work). But that clearly isn't the point - the long term ramifications of this tax are what are important, not the immediate consequences. Sure I wouldn't mind too much is the property tax was a one-off payment, never to be mentioned again, and cost €1000. I wouldn't be happy, sure, but I could cope with that.

This tax is seemingly permanent, without bounds, lightly dressed up as "rates" but is in reality the bailout tax - but may well persist even after the bailout is paid back (which in itself may be a very long time).

tayto lover · 08-02-2012 8:23pm

donalg1 wrote: »

I read the thread tayto. You don't seem able to read though otherwise you would answer questions when asked. And show me where I have insulted anyone any more than you? And what exactly is it that I will get please enlighten me would be great to hear?

Ah now I really think everyone has you summed up correctly. You don't understand because you can't.

donalg1 · 08-02-2012 8:24pm

lividduck wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

I can't afford my asthma medication either but will still be paying this charge and then spend weeks trying to gather enough for my inhalers bit of careful budgeting and I'll manage.

I have paid the tax, however I resent it. You earlier stated that you had PROVED that €2 per week was affordable to everyone, I asked you which post you had proved it in. You response was trite, amd failed totally to address the issues I raised.
Having trawled back through the posts on this thread I note that you seem bent on inciting an emotional response from the anti-campaign in order to somehow portray yourself as superior or more civic minded than them. while I abhor totally some of the scandelous name calling and misrepresentation on their part I can only presume your sole purpose on posting at all is to provoke such a response.
YOU PAID FOR YOUR REASONS, I PAID FOR MINE, BUT DOESN'T MAKE US SUPERIOR IN ANY WAY TO THOSE WHO CANT PAY!
90,000 MORTGAGES ARE COMPROMISED TO SOME DEGREE , IF 90,000 PEOPLE CANT PAY THEIR MORTGAGES HOW THE HELL CAN YOU ARGUE THAT THEY CAN AFFORD THIS NEW TAX?

Because its €2 per week it's that simple. Start at the beginning and find a post that states the charge is €100 per year or €2 per week and there is your proof.

I have said I will pay the charge and some silly people here have decided to abuse every post I make. They have proven to me their true worth and do it doesn't bother me what they say. But if they want to behave in that manner I will call them on it not to gain an emotional response but to call them on their shortcomings and childish behaviour.

I have said all along if you want to pay it then do so and if you choose not to pay it then it's your choice. Never have I told anyone to pay it unlike the anti brigade who are telling everyone to break the law.

dxhound2005 · 08-02-2012 8:34pm

This is either good or bad news for the economy depending on whether saving money or spending it is the better course to generate economic activity. (48% of people saving regularly)

http://www.businessandfinance.ie/cat_news_detail.jsp?itemID=4288

But it sheds some light on the Household Charge affordability debate. Along with the spending on foreign holidays and other items like Sky TV I am encouraged that a substantial number of the 1.6 million householders are in a good position to pay this tax. (€5 billion on foreign holidays, 670,000 paying for Sky, 375,000 UPC)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0128/1224310869655.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/theindex/2011/01/07/will-sky-atlantic-be-a-dealbreaker-for-upc-customers

These groups are obviously relatively prosperous compared to the other group reported on here who cannot afford the €100. If those people manage to sustain their ownership of a private house for the next year despite not being able to budget for €2 a week unfortunately they will have put themselves in the position of owing €142.

No doubt members of both groups will say "I'm not paying until Bertie goes to jail" or suchlike but this is actually not a tenable argument legally.

PS I'm writing about the €100 this year only.

squod · 08-02-2012 8:45pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This is either good or bad news for the economy depending on whether saving money or spending it is the better course to generate economic activity. (48% of people saving regularly)

http://www.businessandfinance.ie/cat_news_detail.jsp?itemID=4288

But it sheds some light on the Household Charge affordability debate. Along with the spending on foreign holidays and other items like Sky TV I am encouraged that a substantial number of the 1.6 million householders are in a good position to pay this tax. (€5 billion on foreign holidays, 670,000 paying for Sky, 375,000 UPC)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0128/1224310869655.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/theindex/2011/01/07/will-sky-atlantic-be-a-dealbreaker-for-upc-customers

These groups are obviously relatively prosperous compared to the other group reported on here who cannot afford the €100. If those people manage to sustain their ownership of a private house for the next year despite not being able to budget for €2 a week unfortunately they will have put themselves in the position of owing €142.

No doubt members of both groups will say "I'm not paying until Bertie goes to jail" or suchlike but this is actually not a tenable argument legally.

PS I'm writing about the €100 this year only.

I'm reposting my previous response to a similar point made earlier.

squod wrote: »

.........Except in the instance of property tax which has traditionally been ignored and has failed on two previous occasions here and once in the UK.

Quote:
Of the 1.12 million households in Ireland in 1996, 1.1 million did not pay the tax

Again the Government is simply backing a non-runner with this issue. That's absolutely clear.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...310052193.html

Quote:
......we don’t have local democracy. We barely even have local government. In most developed countries, about half of all tax revenue is spent at local level. In Ireland, just 6 per cent is. So the demand should be clear: give us real democratic local control over the revenue and we’ll pay a fair property tax

.

My position on this again.

squod wrote: »

There's no reason to attach a council tax to your property. If the government wants a council tax then call it council tax.

A property tax is literally outrageous. Attaching a yearly levy to your home is quite threatening. There's also no sign of this thing being performance rated.
Yet again the PS worker will just pocket 60% to pay someone's pension scheme and the tax payer will get the scraps.

Standing up for yourself is what democracy is about. If enough people do this, laws get changed.

*Sorry for the long post everyone.*

dxhound2005 · 08-02-2012 8:53pm

squod wrote: »

I'm reposting my previous response to a similar point made earlier.

My position on this again.

Standing up for yourself is what democracy is about. If enough people do this, laws get changed.

*Sorry for the long post everyone.*

I will repeat an earlier post of mine as well. There is zero reason for 5% having paid two months ahead of the deadline. If enough people had voted Socialist then there would be no tax, that is democracy in action.

The Quadratic Equation · 08-02-2012 9:11pm

lividduck wrote: »

YOU PAID FOR YOUR REASONS, I PAID FOR MINE, BUT DOESN'T MAKE US SUPERIOR IN ANY WAY TO THOSE WHO CANT PAY!
90,000 MORTGAGES ARE COMPROMISED TO SOME DEGREE , IF 90,000 PEOPLE CANT PAY THEIR MORTGAGES HOW THE HELL CAN YOU ARGUE THAT THEY CAN AFFORD THIS NEW TAX?

Nor does it make you superior to anyone who refuses to pay this unjust, imoral, corrupt tax out of principle.

For people with true principles, it's actually an irelevant if the tax is 2 cent per week or 2 euro per week.

donalg1 · 08-02-2012 9:13pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

lividduck wrote: »

YOU PAID FOR YOUR REASONS, I PAID FOR MINE, BUT DOESN'T MAKE US SUPERIOR IN ANY WAY TO THOSE WHO CANT PAY!
90,000 MORTGAGES ARE COMPROMISED TO SOME DEGREE , IF 90,000 PEOPLE CANT PAY THEIR MORTGAGES HOW THE HELL CAN YOU ARGUE THAT THEY CAN AFFORD THIS NEW TAX?

Nor does it make you superior to anyone who refuses to pay this unjust, imoral, corrupt tax out of principle.

For people with true principles, it's actually an irelevant if the tax is 2 cent per week or 2 euro per week.

So anyone that has paid this tax or intends to pay it doesn't have any principles?

The Quadratic Equation · 08-02-2012 9:17pm

donalg1 wrote: »

So anyone that has paid this tax or intends to pay it doesn't have any principles?

“It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home” – Enda Kenny, 1994

None worth standing up for it seems.

Paying the charge, bending over, and sticking your cowardly head in the sand, while leaving your compliant servile ass in the air for riding at will by the corrupt golden circle, is far from a worthy principle.

lividduck · 08-02-2012 9:19pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Nor does it make you superior to anyone who refuses to pay this unjust, imoral, corrupt tax out of principle.

For people with true principles, it's actually an irelevant if the tax is 2 cent per week or 2 euro per week.

I agree, no one is superior because they paid or didn't pay.
And I repect both your point of view and your right to hold it and to try to persuade others of it.
What I dont agree with is the manner you sometimes go about that but I think that at times you have been prevoked beyond reason.

lividduck · 08-02-2012 9:21pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

None worth standing up for it seems.

Paying the charge, sticking your cowardly head in the sand, and leaving your compliant servile ass in the air for riding by the golden circle, is far from a worthy principle.

Quadratic, I paid, but I dont insult or abuse those who cant, or those who on principle wont.
I fail to see how that makes me servile, or an apt oppertunity for a raping by the "Golden Circle".
Is it not possible that we could hold slightly differing positions yet be respectful to each other?

donalg1 · 08-02-2012 9:24pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

So anyone that has paid this tax or intends to pay it doesn't have any principles?

None worth standing up for it seems.

Paying the charge, sticking your cowardly head in the sand, and leaving your compliant servile ass in the air for riding by the corrupt golden circle, is far from a worthy principle.

So what's your great solution for getting us out of this mess? Sticking your head in the sand is what got us here in the first place.

I would think those that pay are the ones with their heads up and eyes open and those that refuse to pay are the ones with their heads in the ground which is where we will always differ it would seem.

Slick50 · 08-02-2012 9:24pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I will repeat an earlier post of mine as well. There is zero reason for 5% having paid two months ahead of the deadline. If enough people had voted Socialist then there would be no tax, that is democracy in action.

You've repeated yourself a lot more than this. You've got an awful lot to say for a guy that's not telling anyone to pay, or not telling anyone what to do.

It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home. Poor Enda got very flustered when asked if he recognised this statement today in the dail. Started waffling on about Joe Higgins being hysterical for introducing talk of vampires to the debate, when it was his good self being quoted, ha!

donalg1 · 08-02-2012 9:25pm

lividduck wrote: »

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

None worth standing up for it seems.

Paying the charge, sticking your cowardly head in the sand, and leaving your compliant servile ass in the air for riding by the golden circle, is far from a worthy principle.

Quadratic, I paid, but I dont insult or abuse those who cant, or those who on principle wont.
I fail to see how that makes me servile, or an apt oppertunity for a raping by the "Golden Circle".
Is it not possible that we could hold slightly differing positions yet be respectful to each other?

Agree one million percent with this well done lividduck

The Quadratic Equation · 08-02-2012 9:39pm

lividduck wrote: »

Quadratic, I paid, but I dont insult or abuse those who cant, or those who on principle wont.
I fail to see how that makes me servile, or an apt oppertunity for a raping by the "Golden Circle".
Is it not possible that we could hold slightly differing positions yet be respectful to each other?

I'll go to my grave knowing I stood up against the golden circle corruption in this country.
You'll go knowing you didn't and that you collaborated and facilitated them.
I guess that's the difference between your type and mine.

Frank Black · 08-02-2012 9:41pm

squod wrote: »

Where do I start? I can't afford it! Loads of people I know can't afford it. I can't even afford my own asthma medication.

Do you know what? Even if I had that kind of money to waste I'd rather see it burn before my eyes than read about it being squandered on something stupid.

is balancing our budget stupid?

Being able to fund our day to day spending is the best chance we have to be able to renotiate the banking loans we have unjustly been required to take on.

The thing is I agree with some proposals of the anti tax crowd, we do need to cut waste in public spending and try to grow jobs, unfortunately we also need to broaden our tax base, nobody arguing for this tax actually wants to pay, we just recognise the reality of our situation.

Anyway, this thread has just become pages of insults, and i'm begining to repeat myself - I'm signing off for a bit.

lividduck · 08-02-2012 9:43pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I'll go to my grave knowing I stood up against the golden circle corruption in this country.
You'll go knowing you didn't and that you collaborated with them.
I guess that's the difference between your type and mine.

I will go to my grave knowing i said my peace, with dignity, respect and without needing to abuse every person who ever refused to hold the view I wanted to.
Difference between my "type" and yours, common respect I guess, hope whatever made you so bitter, angry, defensive and hurt gets dealt with soon (The Redress Board help?)
Thread unfollowed, point made.
PS Perhaps you and Donal could get a room, after all extremists attract!

dxhound2005 · 08-02-2012 9:45pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I'll go to my grave knowing I stood up against the golden circle corruption in this country.
You'll go knowing you didn't and that you collaborated with them.
I guess that's the difference between your type and mine.

When you pop your clogs whoever gets your house will have to pay off all you left owing. Golden circle people sign over property to family, could work for you but you might want to get legal advice on that.

The Quadratic Equation · 08-02-2012 9:48pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When you pop your clogs whoever gets your house will have to pay off all you left owing. Golden circle people sign over property to family, could work for you but you might want to get legal advice on that.

lol You can stick you bully boy threat tactics up your blueshirt, now click your shiny boot heels and run along and report that at your next cumann meeting, there's a good laddie.

greenpilot · 08-02-2012 9:54pm

I Look forward to returning to this thread in a year or so and laugh at the fools who have paid this daft tax....sheep, my friends, sheep.

donalg1 · 08-02-2012 10:00pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When you pop your clogs whoever gets your house will have to pay off all you left owing. Golden circle people sign over property to family, could work for you but you might want to get legal advice on that.

lol You can stick you bully boy threat tactics up your blueshirt, now click your shiny boot heels and run along and report that at your next cumann meeting, there's a good laddie.

Seriously what is your problem why are you so angry? Why do you feel the need to abuse and insult everyone that disagrees with you are you really that small minded.

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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