Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Pete M.

Deleted User wrote: »

Plant it with willow and claim it's forestry! (that's what I'm doing) worth a try.

No way! Just don't pay this feckin tax and we'll eventually change their tune
(Although planting willow isn't a bad idea in itself, planning to that myself too)

Proper good wealth tax the only way to go.

crazyguy01 wrote: »

I don`t have to agree with every law in the land but do have to comply with them!!

You have a right, perhaps a duty, to challenge them when they're as fcuked up as many perceive them to be.

The way the poll is going, it would lead me to believe that the 'not paying' camp are in the majority.

In AH at least.

Woo!

jack presley

I've gotten this chain email twice over the past couple of days. Sorry if it's been dicsussed before as I haven't trapsed through the 100 odd pages of thei thread. It's probably bulls*&t but has anyone else gotten it?


“You won’t get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Black’s Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public.
This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that you are legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register. Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of no consent. [FONT=Times New Roman]If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever.
The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statute ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead.”[/FONT]

Gareth2011

I haven't gotten it yet. You should set your spam settings to contain a phrase from the script so it will move it to your recycle bin before you even see it.

Gareth2011

Pete M. wrote: »

No way! Just don't pay this feckin tax and we'll eventually change their tune
(Although planting willow isn't a bad idea in itself, planning to that myself too)

Why willow does it grow fast? Can it be cut down and burn well?

gerryo777

Quick one or two on this tax (which I won't be paying).
1.Why should people in Dublin area pay more than everyone else? Surely providing services for more populated areas is cheaper than less populated areas (economies of scale and all that)?
2. If I own and rent out an apartment and I have to pay €1,250.00 per year in maintenance charges to a management company which cover everything in the area (street lighting/grounds maintenance/street cleaning & repair/ upkeep of all common area's etc etc) why should I be liable to pay this charge as well? This is on top of the second home charge, income tax on the rent, upkeep of the actual apartment, PTRB registration etc etc.

Am Chile

Joe Duffy discussing household tax today. Only 5% have registered. You can ring / contact the show at Call 1850 715 815 and from Northern Ireland 08457 853 333 E-mail joe@rte.ie Text 51551 during the programme.

Am Chile

jack presley wrote: »

I've gotten this chain email twice over the past couple of days. Sorry if it's been dicsussed before as I haven't trapsed through the 100 odd pages of thei thread. It's probably bulls*&t but has anyone else gotten it?


“You won’t get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Black’s Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public.
This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that you are legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register. Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of no consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever.
The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statute ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead.”

Just to clear things up. This dodgy advise is coming from the 'freemen' group. The legal advise the Don't Register - Don't pay camapign is from fully trained and practicing solicitors who will act for people if it ever gets to the courts, which is unlikely in large numbers.

Just to confirm the 'freemen' are not part of the broad based Anti Tax campaign. Their views are extreme wheras the members of the campaign are mostly just regular people who want to make a peaceful stand, our message is straightforward and simple don,t register don,t pay.

dxhound2005

gerryo777 wrote: »

Quick one or two on this tax (which I won't be paying).
1.Why should people in Dublin area pay more than everyone else? Surely providing services for more populated areas is cheaper than less populated areas (economies of scale and all that)?
2. If I own and rent out an apartment and I have to pay €1,250.00 per year in maintenance charges to a management company which cover everything in the area (street lighting/grounds maintenance/street cleaning & repair/ upkeep of all common area's etc etc) why should I be liable to pay this charge as well? This is on top of the second home charge, income tax on the rent, upkeep of the actual apartment, PTRB registration etc etc.

Would you come on here and say Quick one about my motor tax (which I won't be paying) or Quick one about my TV licence (which I won't be paying)? Just because it is a new tax and a new law doesn't mean it will not be applied. Unlike the TV licence for which there are no consequences for a lot of evaders this tax is a charge on the the title of your property to be collected (including all arrears, interest and fines) at some stage even if that means waiting until it changes hands.

gerryo777

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Would you come on here and say Quick one about my motor tax (which I won't be paying) or Quick one about my TV licence (which I won't be paying)? Just because it is a new tax and a new law doesn't mean it will not be applied. Unlike the TV licence for which there are no consequences for a lot of evaders this tax is a charge on the the title of your property to be collected (including all arrears, interest and fines) at some stage even if that means waiting until it changes hands.

No answer to either of my questions then?

greenfingers89

Deleted User wrote: »

Plant it with willow and claim it's forestry! (that's what I'm doing) worth a try.

careful lads, willow wont count as the land being in forestry, willow is treated as an agricultural crop just like grass. if you wanted to plant it so its classed as forestry you'd have to pick a species from the approved species list

http://www.forestryservices.ie/tree-species-selection

id strongly advise ye dont do this though as it brings up all sorts of implications regarding clearing the trees away when yee do want to change the land use again.

forester

Cantona's Collars

Am Chile wrote: »

Joe Duffy discussing household tax today. Only 5% have registered.

I was told by a TD that the Household Charge Dept. don't have a list of peoples names & addresses and haven't access to any data where that information is kept e.g Census results,TV license holders.If you don't register to pay the charge then chances are slim that they'll find you.

I'd say the 5% that registered are those who are obliged to (Gardai afaik) or scared of the hype generated by the €2500 fine threat.

Hijpo

zerks wrote: »

I was told by a TD that the Household Charge Dept. don't have a list of peoples names & addresses and haven't access to any data where that information is kept e.g Census results,TV license holders.If you don't register to pay the charge then chances are slim that they'll find you.

I'd say the 5% that registered are those who are obliged to (Gardai afaik) or scared of the hype generated by the €2500 fine threat.

And canvassers

greenfingers89

greenfingers89 wrote: »

careful lads, willow wont count as the land being in forestry, willow is treated as an agricultural crop just like grass. if you wanted to plant it so its classed as forestry you'd have to pick a species from the approved species list

http://www.forestryservices.ie/tree-species-selection

id strongly advise ye dont do this though as it brings up all sorts of implications regarding clearing the trees away when yee do want to change the land use again.

forester

Claiming It's agricultural is just as good, it isn't a garden for tax purposes.

Gareth2011

Gareth2011 wrote: »

Why willow does it grow fast? Can it be cut down and burn well?

Let it grow for 3-6 years then cut back the stems.
You could chip it after 3 years or use as slim "logs" after 6 years or so.
After each coppicing, the willow will grow back so it is possible to cut a different section each year to have a continuous supply.

Am Chile

zerks wrote: »

I was told by a TD that the Household Charge Dept. don't have a list of peoples names & addresses and haven't access to any data where that information is kept e.g Census results,TV license holders.If you don't register to pay the charge then chances are slim that they'll find you.

I'd say the 5% that registered are those who are obliged to (Gardai afaik) or scared of the hype generated by the €2500 fine threat.

When I was listening to Joe Duffy earlier, the household tax only mentioned it for a brief minute at the end of the programme, but he said the numbers would paying would have to Increase tenfold daily for the goverment to reach their target.

DoesNotCompute

Am Chile wrote: »

zerks wrote: »

I was told by a TD that the Household Charge Dept. don't have a list of peoples names & addresses and haven't access to any data where that information is kept e.g Census results,TV license holders.If you don't register to pay the charge then chances are slim that they'll find you.

I'd say the 5% that registered are those who are obliged to (Gardai afaik) or scared of the hype generated by the €2500 fine threat.

When I was listening to Joe Duffy earlier, the household tax only mentioned it for a brief minute at the end of the programme, but he said the numbers would paying would have to Increase tenfold daily for the goverment to reach their target.

Well Joe does talk an awful load of shoite, in fairness.

Id say that most of those who are undecided or waiting to see how things will play out will register and pay within the last few days and weeks before the deadline.

dxhound2005

zerks wrote: »

I was told by a TD that the Household Charge Dept. don't have a list of peoples names & addresses and haven't access to any data where that information is kept e.g Census results,TV license holders.If you don't register to pay the charge then chances are slim that they'll find you.

I'd say the 5% that registered are those who are obliged to (Gardai afaik) or scared of the hype generated by the €2500 fine threat.

Did you ask him/her whether they studied the bill before voting on it? The data protection aspect is covered in the legislation see Section 14 pages 38/39 here.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

The Quadratic Equation

When is air breathing tax coming in ?
After all, those poor billionaire bondholders have luxury lifestyles we must fund.

Bishop_Donal

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

When is air breathing tax coming in ?
After all, those poor billionaire bondholders have luxury lifestyles we must fund.

Don't know, but I hope the people who refuse to pay their share of taxes and duties stick to their beliefs & refuse to breathe in protest for a good while.;)

Joshua Jones

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Don't know, but I hope the people who refuse to pay their share of taxes and duties stick to their beliefs & refuse to breathe in protest for a good while.;)

Cause everyones gonna sleep on the street in protest of the household tax???

Bishop_Donal

Am Chile wrote: »

When I was listening to Joe Duffy earlier, the household tax only mentioned it for a brief minute at the end of the programme, but he said the numbers would paying would have to Increase tenfold daily for the goverment to reach their target.

Very interesting. So with 60 days to go, the number needs to increase tenfold daily.

So let's say one person paid today:

1st feb = 10
2nd feb = 100
3rd feb = 1000
4th feb = 10000
5th feb = 100000
6th feb = 1000000
7th feb = 10000000
8th feb = 100000000
9th feb = 1,000,000,000 @Eur100 = Eur100bn !!!!

Suggest we lend 80bn to help Greece out on the 9th per Joe's numbers. Maybe more than one person paid it today. Might have enough to bail out the Irish banks as well.:D

Bishop_Donal

Joshua Jones wrote: »

Cause everyones gonna sleep on the street in protest of the household tax???

No, because their decision will ultimately wipe out the value of their houses (so they clearly ain't too concerned about owning them!!)

Joshua Jones

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

No, because their decision will ultimately wipe out the value of their houses (so they clearly ain't too concerned about owning them!!)

dxhound2005

Joshua Jones wrote: »

When the household charge is replaced by a tax of say €500 the effect of not paying that for say 10 years and accruing all the attendant interest and fines could well knock off a big chunk of the sale price. Some people have had experience of this with the NPPR (second home) tax already, interesting discussion here.

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=157038

As it stands with that tax a person who paid nothing instead of the €600 due to date would now owe €2000 and rising,

Cantona's Collars

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

No, because their decision will ultimately wipe out the value of their houses (so they clearly ain't too concerned about owning them!!)

Bit dramatic there buddy:rolleyes:

Did you invent this tax? As you seem to be hell bent on everyone paying it.

If my town was provided with better amenities as a result of this tax I'd have no problem paying it but seeing as it'll go the same way as every other tax I've no intention of paying a cent especially as my estate isn't even finished and doesn't seem to be exempt even though some finished ones are.
Will the government suddenly decide to finish the empty houses and fill them with decent folk? I doubt it,so they can sing for their Household Charge.

donalg1

zerks wrote: »

Bit dramatic there buddy:rolleyes:

Did you invent this tax? As you seem to be hell bent on everyone paying it.

If my town was provided with better amenities as a result of this tax I'd have no problem paying it but seeing as it'll go the same way as every other tax I've no intention of paying a cent especially as my estate isn't even finished and doesn't seem to be exempt even though some finished ones are.
Will the government suddenly decide to finish the empty houses and fill them with decent folk? I doubt it,so they can sing for their Household Charge.

Why would you think the government would use the money to finish your estate, did they start building your estate? I mean is it a council estate?

Mickey Dazzler

Just paid the bastarding thing!!

MadYaker

zerks wrote: »

Bit dramatic there buddy:rolleyes:

Did you invent this tax? As you seem to be hell bent on everyone paying it.

If my town was provided with better amenities as a result of this tax I'd have no problem paying it but seeing as it'll go the same way as every other tax I've no intention of paying a cent especially as my estate isn't even finished and doesn't seem to be exempt even though some finished ones are.
Will the government suddenly decide to finish the empty houses and fill them with decent folk? I doubt it,so they can sing for their Household Charge.

Im curious to know what your plan of action is so. If you refuse to pay they will try to impose a fine on you. From https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk19:

What happens if I don't pay or don’t pay on time?

An owner of a residential property who does not pay a household charge or an instalment thereof by the due date will be subject to late payment fees and late payment interest.

The late payment fee to apply in the case of a household charge paid:

not later than 6 months after the due date, is 10% of the amount outstanding;
later than 6 months and not later than 12 months after the due date, is 20 % of the amount outstanding; or
later than 12 months after the due date, is 30 % of the amount outstanding.
In addition, late payment interest of 1% per month or part thereof will apply to unpaid amounts.

Furthermore, both the €100 charge and any accumulated late payment fee will be a charge against the property concerned and will continue to be such for twelve years after the charge or late payment penalties concerned became due. Any household charges or late payment penalties due on a residential property will have to be discharged, in full, before a transfer or sale of the property can be completed.

Are you prepared to go this far to save €100?

I wonder what would happen if you refused to pay but were never going to sell your house? I doubt they would just forget about you but there is no mention of that situation on the website.

LandL84

€100 a year is not such a big deal, in my opinion. I currently live in UK and pay £998 council tax a year + rent £410 a month for a tiny studio appartment, where I live with my partner. We also have no parking. We just can't afford bigger house with private or off road parking (where council tax also increases depending on the size and value of the house). I don't see a point paying it, it's a rip off. But we have no choice.. When we move back to Ireland we'll gladly pay that €100 houshold tax, because it's nothing compared to what we pay at the moment..

Any changes, new taxes make people angry and rebellious, that's understandable.

Conall Cernach

LandL84 wrote: »

€100 a year is not such a big deal, in my opinion. I currently live in UK and pay £998 council tax a year + rent £410 a month for a tiny studio appartment, where I live with my partner. We also have no parking. We just can't afford bigger house with private or off road parking (where council tax also increases depending on the size and value of the house). I don't see a point paying it, it's a rip off. But we have no choice.. When we move back to Ireland we'll gladly pay that €100 houshold tax, because it's nothing compared to what we pay at the moment..

Any changes, new taxes make people angry and rebellious, that's understandable.

In the UK you can avail of the NHS to get stuff like free healthcare and dental work. Your council will also provide many services for this council tax which will not be the case here.