Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Cork24

Listening to the last Word... They can Find other ways of Getting people to pay the house hold Charge..

MightyBouche

seamus wrote: »

I love the way the anti-tax crowd have decided that if "You're not with us, you're agin' us".

I wish Varadkar would stop going on the airwaves talking about the property tax. It's completely and utterly outside his ministerial remit and he's probably the best unwitting anti-tax campaigner out there.

I have so far failed to see any lies however being spread by the non-anti-tax side. Scaremongering, sure. They give the impression that if you don't pay by the 31st, the next piece of mail will be a summons.

However, the anti-tax brigade have managed to create a lot of great lies in this;
- "Nobody is paying it" (rates are apparently at nearly 25% today)
- "They must send you a bill to make it legal"
- "You only have to pay if you register"
- "It's all to pay off the banks/IMF"
- "Ministers homes are exempt"
- "If you don't pay, the Government will be forced to drop it" (If the Government are forced to drop it, they will get the money out of you some other way. So you will pay this €100 eventually)
- "If you don't know about it, you don't have to pay"
- "It's undemocratic"

Anything else?

The exact same tactics as used by the "no" side of the Lisbon Treaty. Indeed, by many of the same people. Desperate,baseless attempts to threaten or scare people into an anti-governmental stance, successful only because the majority of people are apparently too lazy to engage their brains and work out the actual facts or reality of a situation for themselves.

I cannot wait to see the sheer state of the people who turn up to protest at the FG Ard Fheis on Saturday, no doubt that Richard Boyd-Barrett and his band of grumbling, bitter tramps will be in attendance. It will be hilarious. I hear there'll be a free bar at the party too, so hopefully there'll be a few toasts made in the name of the hobos with their placards outside.

the groutch

just read today about the "iPhones for councellors" story/scandal.
I live in DLR, so there's no effin way I'm paying a household charge to fund their fancy pants phones now or in the future (they'll probably be wanting an upgrade to the iphone 5 when it comes out too)

The_Thing

Phil Hogan is lying through his teeth when he says the money raised will fund local services and as an example of his lies I learned today that my local civic amenity site will no longer be open to the public on Saturdays after having done so since it was first opened over fifteen years ago. This coming Saturday the 31st of March - which is the deadline for registration of this bond-holder bailout tax - is also the last Saturday that it will be open.

So much for maintaining local services.

Don't register \ Don't pay.

tayto lover

smash wrote: »

That's such an arrogant and ignorant statement you know that! :rolleyes:

It's a F.G. thing. He is his daddy's boy alright.

Ghandee

MightyBouche wrote: »

The exact same tactics as used by the "no" side of the Lisbon Treaty. Indeed, by many of the same people. Desperate,baseless attempts to threaten or scare people into an anti-governmental stance, successful only because the majority of people are apparently too lazy to engage their brains and work out the actual facts or reality of a situation for themselves.

I cannot wait to see the sheer state of the people who turn up to protest at the FG Ard Fheis on Saturday, no doubt that Richard Boyd-Barrett and his band of grumbling, bitter tramps will be in attendance. It will be hilarious. I hear there'll be a free bar at the party too, so hopefully there'll be a few toasts made in the name of the hobos with their placards outside.

Something very very, very familiar about your writing style, and your attitude.


Is this ?

ian64?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76614244&postcount=1
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76551833&postcount=1359

alastair

The_Thing wrote: »

Phil Hogan is lying through his teeth when he says the money raised will fund local services and as an example of his lies I learned today that my local civic amenity site will no longer be open to the public on Saturdays after having done so since it was first opened over fifteen years ago. This coming Saturday the 31st of March - which is the deadline for registration of this bond-holder bailout tax - is also the last Saturday that it will be open.

So much for maintaining local services.

Don't register \ Don't pay.

Service shut down on account of reduced funding - has nothing to with allocation of upcoming household charge. All of the charge goes to funding local services, regardless of what's happening Saturdays at your civic amenity centre.

Don't register, pay later.

MightyBouche

Ghandee wrote: »

Something very very, very familiar about your writing style, and your attitude.


Is this ?

ian64?

Perhaps because it is the voice of reason, the very thing you battle while ranting and raving about how bad the government are?

I don't know who Ian64 is, sorry.

Ghandee

MightyBouche wrote: »

Perhaps because it is the voice of reason, the very thing you battle while ranting and raving about how bad the government are?

I don't know who Ian64 is, sorry.

ok, sorry. My mistake.:rolleyes:

lugha

tayto lover wrote: »

It's a F.G. thing. He is his daddy's boy alright.

Well do feel free to rebut my assertion that the taxpayer WILL pay for local services one way or the other, as I quite clearly said. But of course you can’t, so you won’t.

Slick50

alastair wrote: »

Don't register, pay later.

"You have to pay".... or you can't stay?

If this is allowed to stick, how "patient" do you think the government will be when it is a far more substantial bill. They need the money, so they won't be waiting to follow people to their graves to collect it from their estate.

This is a morally wrong, unjust and unfair tax.

tayto lover

lugha wrote: »

Well do feel free to rebut my assertion that the taxpayer WILL pay for local services one way or the other, as I quite clearly said. But of course you can’t, so you won’t.

I have never refused or failed to pay taxes until now.
I will not pay an unjust tax on MY home.
If they raise the tax another way then that is grand with me but not on my home. I just won't pay it that way.

Kirby

xflyer wrote: »

As I said above this isn't about the €100. It's about collecting info so they have a list of people liable for water charges and property taxes and anything else they can think of. For many people these charges will be well into four figures whether they be rich or not.

They don't need a new database. They have two. One from the ESB and one from An post. Everyone will be getting an invoice through their door over the next month or so.

alastair

tayto lover wrote: »

If they raise the tax another way then that is grand with me but not on my home. I just won't pay it that way.

Oh yes you will. And I wagered a nice €100 to that effect a couple of weeks back.

crazygeryy

Kirby wrote: »

xflyer wrote: »

As I said above this isn't about the €100. It's about collecting info so they have a list of people liable for water charges and property taxes and anything else they can think of. For many people these charges will be well into four figures whether they be rich or not.

They don't need a new database. They have two. One from the ESB and one from An post. Everyone will be getting an invoice through their door over the next month or so.

No they wont it said on the radio adverts that no invoices will be sent out it must be paid by march 31st etc etc

The_Thing

Utility bills do not prove ownership.

I wonder what would happen if they got thousands of forms with completely bogus details on them, they'd be chasing their tails for years.

lugha

tayto lover wrote: »

If they raise the tax another way then that is grand with me but not on my home. I just won't pay it that way.

Ah the mystical home reference again! I am perplexed as to why the "home" should be exempt from tax.

Why not insist that you do not pay tax on your car, or your food, or clothes, or pretty much everything else? What exactly sets the home apart (and how have all of Europe got this so wrong?)

And also, why does it matter then that this is an unjust or unfair tax, if there is some fundamental reason why the home should not be taxed?

alastair

The_Thing wrote: »

Utility bills do not prove ownership.

I wonder what would happen if they got thousands of forms with completely bogus details on them, they'd be chasing their tails for years.

Deeds of Sale and Stamp Duty databases are a pretty good start of a house owner database - just need to merge with a couple more and they'll be up to date and accurate.

alastair

crazygeryy wrote: »

No they wont it said on the radio adverts that no invoices will be sent out it must be paid by march 31st etc etc

Letters pointing out that payment is late will be sent out at some point - ahead of a court summons if you keep ignoring them.

The_Thing

alastair wrote: »

Deeds of Sale and Stamp Duty databases are a pretty good start of a house owner database - just need to merge with a couple more and they'll be up to date and accurate.

If that's the case why do they need the public to do their dirty work for them?

dvpower

The_Thing wrote: »

If that's the case why do they need the public to do their dirty work for them?

Do you doubt that 'Deeds of Sale and Stamp Duty databases are a pretty good start of a house owner database'?

alastair

The_Thing wrote: »

If that's the case why do they need the public to do their dirty work for them?

Dirty work? It's certainly handy for them to have house owners self-register for database purposes, but that doesn't imply it's the only way to skin that cat.

the_syco

I wonder will they switch off the public lights in the estates that don't pay their household charge?

eth0

lugha wrote: »

Ah the mystical home reference again! I am perplexed as to why the "home" should be exempt from tax.

Why not insist that you do not pay tax on your car, or your food, or clothes, or pretty much everything else? What exactly sets the home apart (and how have all of Europe got this so wrong?)

And also, why does it matter then that this is an unjust or unfair tax, if there is some fundamental reason why the home should not be taxed?

The home is taxed, vat when it's new and stamp duty. you pay it up front and never hear about it again just like every other thing you buy. thats the way it should be, none of this carry on with paying 100's every year to the govt just because you own a place. There are very few items that you have to pay the government every year just to be allowed keep them, the one that stands out is guns and the license renewal fee.

Basic healthy food isn't taxed. its all the pre-prepared stuff and non-essentials that are taxed

Ghandee

the_syco wrote: »

I wonder will they switch off the public lights in the estates that don't pay their household charge?

Nah....

Just outside individual houses that failed to pay.;)

mickydoomsux

eth0 wrote: »

The home is taxed, vat when it's new and stamp duty. you pay it up front and never hear about it again just like every other thing you buy.

You pay car tax annually after paying both VAT and VRT on the vehicle at the time of purchase.

Ghandee

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You pay car tax annually after paying both VAT and VRT on the vehicle at the time of purchase.

Not really.

From what I understand, you pay car tax to enable you to use public highways/roads.
You can choose to put your car off road if you wish. Notify the authorities and tell them the car won't be used on the roads/not road worthy etc etc.
Can't choose this option with a home I'm afraid.

Silly comparison tbh.

constitutionus

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You pay car tax annually after paying both VAT and VRT on the vehicle at the time of purchase.

only if you drive it.

you can leave it outside your gaff untaxed for years without someone banging on your door looking for it.

howamidifferent

tayto lover wrote: »

I have never refused or failed to pay taxes until now.
I will not pay an unjust tax on MY home.
If they raise the tax another way then that is grand with me but not on my home. I just won't pay it that way.

Absolutely + 1. Any other way but on my home....

lugha

Ghandee wrote: »

Not really.

From what I understand, you pay car tax to enable you to use public highways/roads.
You can choose to put your car off road if you wish. Notify the authorities and tell them the car won't be used on the roads/not road worthy etc etc.
Can't choose this option with a home I'm afraid.

Silly comparison tbh.

Silly is right! Most of us cannot do this with our cars either.