Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

hondasam

Ghandee wrote: »

And it's a certainty that the next potential govt will have a mandate promising to abolish this sham charge and a all the crap that goes with it.

At this stage I don't believe anything any of them tell us, FG were going to do so much when they got into power, what have they done fcuk all that's what. They are blaming this property tax on the previous government and they might be right but still they have failed us just like FF have.
Enda Kenny has not done enough to reduce ministers pay which is what he always complained about when he was not in power, now he has his chance and he is just as bad as his predecessor.

MrMatisse

Just cut off welfare payments and mortgage relief to those who dont pay

hondasam

alastair wrote: »

Well it is if the people who should pay up are slow in doing so.

You actually think people who work in your local council will want a new job description and be told they are of out banging on doors taking abuse left right and centre. They will probably go on strike and rightly so.

Mark200

hondasam wrote: »

Enda Kenny has not done enough to reduce ministers pay which is what he always complained about when he was not in power, now he has his chance and he is just as bad as his predecessor.

He reduced Ministers pay in his first week as Taoiseach.

alastair

hondasam wrote: »

You actually think people who work in your local council will want a new job description and be told they are of out banging on doors taking abuse left right and centre. They will probably go on strike and rightly so.

Maybe the solution would be to pay what you owe?

mikom

MrMatisse wrote: »

Just cut off welfare payments and mortgage relief to those who dont pay

Yeahhhh........... do it to those in corporation and county council houses too.

Mark200 wrote: »

He reduced Ministers pay in his first week as Taoiseach.

Remind me again about his ceiling cap for advisers.

Bullseye1

alastair wrote: »

Who do you think is going to claim to be happy with waste? Just asking?

Those who are in a position to spend your taxes. We have not seen enough discussion on waste in this country.

I'm all for a progressive house tax which includes provision of water. However I want to see a root and branch change in government spending. They had so much money coming in during the boom they did not know what to do with it so they wasted it on report after report with no end results. Look at the incinerator in Dublin, children's hospital, lands bought by local Authorites which are floodplains and can not be built on.

Yet people are happy to give more money without question.

Wild Bill

Let's not get too side-tracked by the campaign against the illegitimate house tax; it's a very valuable first step but a bird can't fly on one wing.

Meanwhile, if you are angry as hell at the smug fascist bullying and threats there are some practical steps you can take short of rioting and rallying in order to send a message to the undemocratic Regime:

(1) Continue, of course, to refuse to pay the property tax
(2) pay for everything we can in cash especially trades folk and professional services - dentists/doctors etc
(3) shop anywhere (like NI) that doesn't contribute to the exchequer run by the current illegitimate Regime
(4) Shop for food in Farmer's markets (it's healthier anyway)
(5) Max out on car boot sales and barter where it's convenient to do so.
(6)Take all your money out of the Irish banking system; buy gold or stuff the cash in a safe underground; whatever. Minimize your use of banks.
(7)Don't tax your car - you'll never get caught with careful routing
(8)Don't ever pay your first TV licence if you haven't already done so
(9)Bombard the tax-office with endless queries and calls for re-checking - it costs and keeps them distracted.
(10) In short do anything you can think of that costs the state money or deprives it and the banks of cash.

See how many bully boys knocking on a million doors they can afford then!

(And become a "freeman" - apparently that's what happens it you stay within the Common Law)

DEFTLEFTHAND

hondasam wrote: »

You are great, I suppose you will pass the charge for the flats on to the tenants.

I won't actually, its my building and its my tax to pay and nobody else's.

hondasam

alastair wrote: »

Maybe the solution would be to pay what you owe?

If I pay this will I still have to pay bin charges, water charges, septic tank charge and any other charge they decide to throw at me?

You never answered this question.
It's a matter of principle now, I can afford to pay but I won't.
If next year they say to you Alastair we need more tax, you will be paying €900 property tax what will you say?

Howlin

Hi all

If you have a house but have a mortgage on it, does the bank owns the house until you have completed the last payment?
If so then shouldn't the banks pay the household charge to those who have mortgages on the house?

hondasam

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I won't actually, its my building and its my tax to pay and nobody else's.

Fair play, good for you, not many landlords will do this.

Sky King

You own the house, which is collateral if you default.

markpb

You own the house - the bank keep a lien on it so they can take it if you don't keep up payments.

alastair

hondasam wrote: »

You never answered this question.
It's a matter of principle now, I can afford to pay but I won't.
If next year they say to you Alastair we need more tax, you will be paying €900 property tax what will you say?

I'll say pay your damn taxes - there's the actual principle. What's the septic tank registration anyway? Tuppence halfpenny.

phil1nj

alastair wrote: »

Maybe the solution would be to pay what you owe?

I asked you a question several pages ago (which you seemed to have chosen to ignore). So I'll ask it again:

Why (in your opinion) are certain parties exempt from paying this charge if it is indeed earmarked for essential local services? People in unfinished estates, council tenants, those renting, those receiving mortgage interest relief etc? These people also avail of the same local authority services as those who are being targeted by this charge. I've yet to see one decent or satisfactory reply to this question on this thread.

I'm not having a go at any of these people directly and believe that those who are currently living in unfinished estates have been let down very badly by local authorities but I'd like to find out why this charge is only being levied on homeowners.

Chucky the tree

Mr CJ wrote: »

Chucky, whats your excuse for the audience of the Late Late show?? with the same results they must be all on the dole also hey??

Probably. The show doesn't hardly attracts the birghtest and best so I'm sure the audience is now better. An 3k at the protest, that's a fairly pathetic number really.

hondasam

Mark200 wrote: »

He reduced Ministers pay in his first week as Taoiseach.

Did he really and expenses, what happened there?
Did Enda take a pay cut himself or did he get a pay rise with his new job?

Micky Dolenz

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Probably. The show doesn't hardly attracts the birghtest and best so I'm sure the audience is now better. An 3k at the protest, that's a fairly pathetic number really.

What about the 80% who haven't registered?

username123

Chucky the tree wrote: »

An 3k at the protest, that's a fairly pathetic number really.

When you consider the organisers only booked a venue that holds 2k - its a pretty awesome turnout.

alastair

phil1nj wrote: »

I asked you a question several pages ago (which you seemed to have chosen to ignore). So I'll ask it again:

Why (in your opinion) are certain parties exempt from paying this charge if it is indeed earmarked for essential local services? People in unfinished estates, council tenants, those renting, those receiving mortgage interest relief etc? These people also avail of the same local authority services as those who are being targeted by this charge. I've yet to see one decent or satisfactory reply to this question on this thread.

I'm not having a go at any of these people directly and believe that those who are currently living in unfinished estates have been let down very badly by local authorities but I'd like to find out why this charge is only being levied on homeowners.

A property tax necessitates owning an actual property. Everyone continues to contribute to funding local authorities with every other applicable tax regardless - this tax only covers a portion of operating costs of local authorities.

hondasam

alastair wrote: »

I'll say pay your damn taxes - there's the actual principle. What's the septic tank registration anyway? Tuppence halfpenny.

Spoken like a true politician, avoiding the question is your strong point. Tuppence halfpenny to you Principle to me.

I will ask again, are you prepared to pay what ever sum they ask you to pay next year?

Ghandee

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

What about the 80% who haven't registered?

We're all scum bag, tax evader, dole scrounging lay abouts according to some on here.

Over 80% of the general population......

Go figure :rolleyes:

Chucky the tree

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

What about the 80% who haven't registered?

What about them?

username123 wrote: »

When you consider the organisers only booked a venue that holds 2k - its a pretty awesome turnout.

Jesus, shocked to see even the organisers know they'll only get that kind of terrible turn out. You'd think they would have a bit more confidence, I suppose having worked on it the last number of weeks they mightn't have received a huge amount of support.

alastair

username123 wrote: »

When you consider the organisers only booked a venue that holds 2k - its a pretty awesome turnout.

If they had booked a telephone box, it'd be super awesome. But it speaks volumes as to the ambition of the campaign, and the actual numbers that support them.

alastair

hondasam wrote: »

Spoken like a true politician, avoiding the question is your strong point. Tuppence halfpenny to you Principle to me.

I will ask again, are you prepared to pay what ever sum they ask you to pay next year?

I'm avoiding nothing - indications are my tax on the tiered scale will be somewhere between €500 and a grand. I'll be paying my damn taxes. And the septic tank fee - a one-off of a fiver? Tuppence halfpenny.

Ghandee

alastair wrote: »

If they had booked a telephone box, it'd be super awesome. But it speaks volumes as to the ambition of the campaign, and the actual numbers that support them.

Mr CJ

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Probably. The show doesn't hardly attracts the birghtest and best so I'm sure the audience is now better. An 3k at the protest, that's a fairly pathetic number really.

I have to laugh at these excuses... by the way why would most people want to go somewhere to be packed in with thousands of people on a lovely day like today??

I do agree with protests there needs to be something to let the people know that they aint the only ones pissed of and not paying but I have not gone to any protests as I dont get time of with business when there on and sometime I could not be arsed but makes no difference to the fact I still aint paying like the hundreds of thousands that never showed up at protest so your argument is non existent im afraid to say

hondasam

alastair wrote: »

I'm avoiding nothing - indications are my tax on the tiered scale will be somewhere between €500 and a grand. I'll be paying my damn taxes.

If only we were all as willing to throw our money away like you. I would be happy to pay €100 if I could then stop paying my bin charges which are €360 for the year but this is not included in the household charge is it?
I'm sure we will be paying for water as well, this is not included either. Ya I have definitely decided not to pay.

I do pay my taxes btw.

phil1nj

alastair wrote: »

A property tax necessitates owning an actual property.

But this a charge, not a full on property tax. The government have said this time and time again. So my question still stands.....why the exemptions?

alastair wrote: »

Everyone continues to contribute to funding local authorities with every other applicable tax regardless - this tax only covers a portion of operating costs of local authorities.

But the 160 million that this charge (not tax) was supposed to raise was to cover the 178 million cut from local authority budgets. Therefore the property tax should only be required to raise a further 18 million or another 11.25 per household next year. So going forward the property tax should only be 111.25Euro per household. Unless (shock , horror) the revenue raised from the property tax is not going to be used solely for local authority spending.

Or are you going to say that we need to stop borrowing money to fund local authorities hence the elevated figures that have been posted here for the full blown property tax? Fair enough, but what about the other government expenditure that has still been left untouched (expenses, pensions reforms, PS waste, abolition of the Seanad etc, etc etc)??????