Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You haven't managed to intimidate everyone with a contrary opinion off the thread yet. Keep working on it.

Intimidate?

No where on this thread have I threatened action (legal or otherwise) on anyone who happened to have a different opinion to me.

Yourself on the other hand?

Fines for this, charges applied for this......

I think your main issue its that i've constantly clipped your wings, when you've spouted lies, and when challenged on some of your absurd statements, you selectively choose when, and when not to reply.

Actually, I resent that statement dx, and I am asking you to withdraw it.

mikom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqV7dThGu-I

donalg1

Ghandee wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You haven't managed to intimidate everyone with a contrary opinion off the thread yet. Keep working on it.

Intimidate?

No where on this thread have I threatened action (legal or otherwise) on anyone who happened to have a different opinion to me.

Yourself on the other hand?

Fines for this, charges applied for this......

I think your main issue its that i've constantly clipped your wings, when you've spouted lies, and when challenged on some of your absurd statements, you selectively choose when, and when not to reply.

Actually, I resent that statement dx, and I am asking you to withdraw it.

What about all the posts by the anti brigade about how if you register this year you will be paying 5 or ten times as much next year? I would consider that to be the same as someone talking about fines for not paying. Probably worse as there is nothing to say this charge will have gone up next year whereas there is something in writing about possible fines for non payment

Kintarō Hattori

Sadly it looks like I'm going to have to pay this. I had been of the opinion that the fine was quite small but reading the paper today it seems that it's between €1000-2000. We're not long in our home plus we bought a car last year so we've had plenty of bills between early last year and now.

We simply wouldn't be able to cough up €1000-2000. :mad:

sandt

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Sadly it looks like I'm going to have to pay this. I had been of the opinion that the fine was quite small but reading the paper today it seems that it's between €1000-2000. We're not long in our home plus we bought a car last year so we've had plenty of bills between early last year and now.

We simply wouldn't be able to cough up €1000-2000. :mad:

Do you have a link to this?

I didn't think the fine was anywhere near that kinda money :eek:

Where To

I think this thread is in need of a musical interlude:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOBLqKawkC8

Ghandee

donalg1 wrote: »

What about all the posts by the anti brigade about how if you register this year you will be paying 5 or ten times as much next year? I would consider that to be the same as someone talking about fines for not paying. Probably worse as there is nothing to say this charge will have gone up next year whereas there is something in writing about possible fines for non payment

Donal, you and I differ greatly on the definition of the word intimidation.


Synonyms: intimidate, browbeat, bulldoze, cow 2 , bully 1 , bludgeon These verbs all mean to frighten into submission, compliance, or acquiescence. Intimidate implies the presence or operation of a fear-inspiring force: "It [atomic energy] may intimidate the human race into bringing order into its international affairs" (Albert Einstein). Browbeat suggests the persistent application of highhanded, disdainful, or imperious tactics: browbeating a witness. Bulldoze connotes the leveling of all spirit of opposition: was bulldozed into hiring an unacceptable candidate. Cow implies bringing out an abject state of timorousness and often demoralization: a dog that was cowed by abuse. To bully is to intimidate through blustering, domineering, or threatening behavior: workers who were bullied into accepting a poor contract. Bludgeon suggests the use of grossly aggressive or combative methods: had to be bludgeoned into fulfilling his duties.

The only people attempting intimidation of any kind are the ones on this thread with their empty threats of people unable to sell homes, getting fined, court appearances etc etc.

And quite predictably, Dx fails to respond once again, which displays a total lack of balls on his part, unsurprising though, its certainly not the first time he's made completely unfounded allegations on this thread.

mikom

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Sadly it looks like I'm going to have to pay this. I had been of the opinion that the fine was quite small but reading the paper today it seems that it's between €1000-2000. We're not long in our home plus we bought a car last year so we've had plenty of bills between early last year and now.

We simply wouldn't be able to cough up €1000-2000. :mad:

They've got to you with the scaremongering.
You seem to be teetering on the edge.

The legislation allows for a fine of up to €2,500 for failing to register by 31st March. But this is not an automatic fine. Under the legislation people who don’t register have to be brought to court and have a case proved against them that they did not register.

Will you and a million others be dragged to court and convicted?
Will you and a million others be dragged to court and convicted when not one banker has?
Will you and a million others be dragged to court and convicted whilst a person renting a council house with a good (non benefit) income, streetlights outside, public sewerage, a park and a library just a short jog away does not have to pay the charge at all.

Your choice.
I know which one I'd be choosing.

AboutTwoFiddy

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Sadly it looks like I'm going to have to pay this. I had been of the opinion that the fine was quite small but reading the paper today it seems that it's between €1000-2000. We're not long in our home plus we bought a car last year so we've had plenty of bills between early last year and now.

We simply wouldn't be able to cough up €1000-2000. :mad:

I don't think the fine is anything near that, you might be getting the fine figure mixed up with how much the tax will be increased to next year if everyone pays it.

Kintarō Hattori

sandt wrote: »

Do you have a link to this?

I didn't think the fine was anywhere near that kinda money :eek:

mikom wrote: »

They've got to you with the scaremongering.
You seem to be teetering on the edge.

The legislation allows for a fine of up to €2,500 for failing to register by 31st March. But this is not an automatic fine. Under the legislation people who don’t register have to be brought to court and have a case proved against them that they did not register.

Will you and a million others be dragged to court and convicted?
Will you and a million others be dragged to court and convicted when not one banker has?
Will you and a million others be dragged to court and convicted whilst a person renting a council house with a good (non benefit) income, streetlights outside, public sewerage, a park and a library just a short jog away does not have to pay the charge at all.

Your choice.
I know which one I'd be choosing.

Sorry sandt, I picked up a paper in work today and I'm not sure which one it was.

Ah the paper neglected to mention having to go to court first. It simply mentioned the fine for late payment.

mikom

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Sorry sandt, I picked up a paper in work today and I'm not sure which one it was.

Ah the paper neglected to mention having to go to court first. It simply mentioned the fine for late payment.

And this is why I don't buy newspapers.
Yesterdays lies today.

The campaign against housold taxes group will organise legal representation for anyone who is taken to court.
They say that by challenging each case, they can ensure that the system becomes completely clogged up.

Read the FAQ Kintarō, and get in touch with them.

Kintarō Hattori

Found it. It was in the Metro Herald, page 4, bottom left:

http://e-edition.metroherald.ie/2012/03/20/

bgrizzley

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Sadly it looks like I'm going to have to pay this. I had been of the opinion that the fine was quite small but reading the paper today it seems that it's between €1000-2000. We're not long in our home plus we bought a car last year so we've had plenty of bills between early last year and now.

We simply wouldn't be able to cough up €1000-2000. :mad:

Hi Kintaro, if you can afford the E42 extra, try and hold off for a year. The more people that do the faster this government will see we DO have a voice

dvpower

sandt wrote: »

Do you have a link to this?

I didn't think the fine was anywhere near that kinda money :eek:

The legislation provides for a 'Class C' fine. The amount of the fine is laid out in the Fines Act 2010

Those who fail to do so by the March 31 deadline have been warned they could face a fine between €1,000 and €2,500.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/household-tax-may-be-cut-from-pay-hogan-544050.html#ixzz1phmsbLlN

I think its unlikely that they will start taking these prosecutions straight off the bat, but the possibility remains.

dvpower

AboutTwoFiddy wrote: »

I don't think the fine is anything near that, you might be getting the fine figure mixed up with how much the tax will be increased to next year if everyone pays it.

Its more than that - up to €2500

Kintarō Hattori

bgrizzley wrote: »

Hi Kintaro, if you can afford the E42 extra, try and hold off for a year. The more people that do the faster this government will see we DO have a voice

E42?

mikom

dvpower wrote: »

Its more than that - up to €2500

Quickdraw Mcgraw here....

eth0

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

E42?

Unreleased Nokia phone. Very rare, has frickin' laser beams to take care of the tax man

dvpower

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

E42?

I think that's the interest and late payment penalties that will you would automatically incur. The fine is additional, but would require a prosecution.

Kintarō Hattori

dvpower wrote: »

I think that's the interest and late payment penalties that will you would automatically incur. The fine is additional, but would require a prosecution.

I can certainly cough up the extra €42.

Before any of the pro-charge folk cough in about being able to afford the €42, yes I can afford to pay the Household Charge but I don't see why I should be penalized for owning my own home.

bgrizzley

What DV said...

squod

dvpower wrote: »

The legislation provides for a 'Class C' fine. The amount of the fine is laid out in the Fines Act 2010



Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/household-tax-may-be-cut-from-pay-hogan-544050.html#ixzz1phmsbLlN

I think its unlikely that they will start taking these prosecutions straight off the bat, but the possibility remains.

Unite has urged its 60,000 members not register for the charge before the March 31st deadline

A motion calling for a ballot for industrial action if members have to deduct the charge from wages will be discussed at the union’s national conference next month.

Interestingly.......

Unite has around 5,000 members working at Bank of Ireland, Irish Life and Permanent TSB and EBS

Not even the bankers will pay the household charge. Speaks volumes.

dvpower

A motion calling for a ballot for industrial action if members have to deduct the charge from wages will be discussed at the union’s national conference next month.

squod wrote: »

Not even the bankers will pay the household charge. Speaks volumes.

I think you might be mixing your quotes there - iirc the union was the CPSU, not UNITE.


Edit: Yeah - It was the CPSU

The executive of the Civil and Public Service Union (CPSU) has passed a motion calling for the tax to be scrapped but has not called on members to boycott the charge.

The general feeling of members, which is made up of lower paid civil and public servants, was

that the lower paid are being "hit the hardest" once again, executive member Terry Kelleher said.

A motion calling for a ballot for industrial action if members have to deduct the charge from wages will be discussed at the union’s national conference next month.

squod

dvpower wrote: »

I think you might be mixing your quotes there

No

dvpower wrote: »

iirc the union was the CPSU, not UNITE.

No again.

Unite has urged its 60,000 members not register for the charge before the March 31st deadline.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0320/breaking28.html

Jen Pigs Fly

My dad paid his today.
He said he'd rather pay 100 now than a few thousand later.

He does have a point, he's already losing almost 50% of his income due to taxes.

squod

And more.......

Dublin Council of Trade Unions spokesman Des Derwin said the umbrella body supported the efforts of the Campaign Against Household and Water Taxes organisers “to support the efforts of organisers to encourage people not to register and not to pay”.

dxhound2005

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I can certainly cough up the extra €42.

Before any of the pro-charge folk cough in about being able to afford the €42, yes I can afford to pay the Household Charge but I don't see why I should be penalized for owning my own home.

Some people are being penalised for owning two houses (or ten). No one knows how many should be paying but about 340,000 of them are €200 a year NPPR. The penalties are more severe for non payment than the Household Charge, €20 per month. So someone who has failed to pay €600 since the charge was introduced now owes €1780 rising by €60 a month. Just like the new charge it is a self registration system and no invoices are issued. And the arrears are on the title of the property just like the new tax will be.

I offer this by way of information since this aspect (arrears on the title) is completely absent from any literature or public pronouncements from CAHWT. And their high powered legal team can do nothing about it as it is illegal for solicitors to facilitate conveyancing of property in the absence of the arrears being recovered.

It is strange how there was no campaign on behalf of these people and no party (that I know of) offered to abolish the NPPR at the last election.

https://www.nppr.ie/Faq.aspx#fk41

mikom

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

My dad paid his today.
He said he'd rather pay 100 now than a few thousand later.

Tell him he will indeed be paying a few thousand later, should this tax take hold.

mikom

dxhound2005 wrote: »

No one knows how many should be paying but about 340,000 of them are €200 a year NPPR. The penalties are more severe for non payment than the Household Charge, €20 per month.

Meanwhile, what is actually happening.........

HUNDREDS of people are likely to escape the tax on second homes after the authorities admitted it is too expensive and time consuming to pursue those who have refused to pay it.


The Department of the Environment admitted resources were not available to pinpoint the identities of those dodging the €200-a-year non-principal private residence (NPPR) charge.


A spokesman said it would be a costly and time-consuming task to correlate information from land registry records -- a task beyond the capabilities of most cash-strapped county councils. The councils have also been deterred from tackling suspected tax dodgers due to the prohibitive cost of taking court action to recoup the €200 and late penalties of €20 a month.


"We know that there are people who are avoiding the tax but it would be a huge task to identify them all," one local authority official told the Irish Independent.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hundreds-escape-secondhome-tax-2913935.html

dvpower

squod wrote: »

No



No again.



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0320/breaking28.html

Have a wee read of the link you posted.

You're mixing two parts of the article.

This refers to Unite:

Unite has urged its 60,000 members not register for the charge before the March 31st deadline.

This refers to the CPSU

A motion calling for a ballot for industrial action if members have to deduct the charge from wages will be discussed at the union’s national conference next month.