Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

squod

Or just read my post. About three thousand posts in.....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77219451&postcount=3094

Am Chile

ebixa82 wrote: »

Why would you not pay it?

One, its double taxation, I already paid large stamp duty, and paid off my mortgage, so therefore my house is my private property bought and paid for end of story.

Two, Like most other people, I know dam well its not gonna stop at €100.

Three, Even if you are in a position to pay this now, ask yourself this

1. Will I still have this job Im in this time next year?

2. What new tax will they pass in the next budget even if I can afford it now?

3,Will I still have the same wages/salary this time next year providing my wages/salary don,t get cut and reduced?

4. When I am in my old age, will I be able to pay all these new taxes on my home when I am relying on my pension?

5, And finally if I can afford a household tax of €100 at the present moment, would I be able to afford to a full property tax combined with water charges at over €1000?

noddyone2

Just wondering if there are certain groups that won't pay, such as (for example) landlords, travellers? Will they be brought to court_ - or will that be too expensive for Local Authorities?

gigino

noddyone2 wrote: »

Just wondering if there are certain groups that won't pay, such as (for example) landlords, travellers? Will they be brought to court_ - or will that be too expensive for Local Authorities?

Its fairly obvious the only that will pay are the public service, because they are paying themselves. Even if 300,000 houses pay the 100 euro charge, that will raise 30 million. Every bit helps. To put things in perspective, the government is giving its own employees who are retiring this Spring a total of 600 million.
The p.s. will pay this new tax and will hope it will be raised to a grand a year within a few years.

Nodin

gigino wrote: »

Its fairly obvious the only that will pay are the public service, because they are paying themselves. Even if 300,000 houses pay the 100 euro charge, that will raise 30 million. Every bit helps. To put things in perspective, the government is giving its own employees who are retiring this Spring a total of 600 million.
The p.s. will pay this new tax and will hope it will be raised to a grand a year within a few years.

Can't drop the PS bashing, can ye?

mikom

gigino wrote: »

To put things in perspective, the government is giving its own employees who are retiring this Spring a total of 600 million.

Bondholders in BOI get 3 Billion at end of March.
Now that's perspective.

gigino

mikom wrote: »

Bondholders in BOI get 3 Billion at end of March.

And who made the decision to pay them?

mikom

gigino wrote: »

And who made the decision to pay them?

Not me anyway.
And I am one of the muppets supposed to pay this household (piss up against the wall) charge.

gigino

mikom wrote: »

Not me anyway.
.

not me either. It was people paid by the public purse...which we all are asked to cough 100 in to now. No way Hose.

Mr CJ

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Sunday Times poll included questions on Househould Charge, see pages 9/10.

http://issuu.com/behaviour_and_attitudes/docs/sunday-times-february-opinion-poll-report

Of those who haven't paid yet 44% will pay, 36% won't 20% don't know. Add the 10% who have already paid and say half of the don't knows and you could see over 60% payng.

Unless CAHWT do something spectacular in the next month (like getting Sinn Fein on board) I cannot see where their campaign is going. If over 60% pay I think the Government would be happy enough to sit back and add the fines/interest/arrears to future bills and fight that battle next year and beyond.

This calculation is flawed it does not balance out, according to you the total % equates to 110%

You must have a lack of understanding about surveys, who have registered is irrelevant! As stated this was a survey of 912 people who have not registered therefore 912 = 100% So the results are as they are, halving the dont no's you get a possibility of 54% yes... correct me if im wrong.

By the way where is this 10% of households registered coming from? According to my calculations if there is 1.6million homes liable and 120k homes have registered does this not equate to 7.5% only??

Anyway even if 60% register fools they are as it would be still to much of a massive undertaking to bring 640,000 people to court.

But if the yes people want to throw away there 100 euro let them just dont look for your money back when the whole idea is scrapped!!

DONT REGISTER DONT PAY!!

lividduck

Mr CJ wrote: »

This calculation is flawed it does not balance out, according to you the total % equates to 110%

You must have a lack of understanding about surveys, who have registered is irrelevant! As stated this was a survey of 912 people who have not registered therefore 912 = 100% So the results are as they are, halving the no's you get a possibility of 54% yes... correct me if im wrong.

By the way where is this 10% of households registered coming from? According to my calculations if there is 1.6million homes liable and 120k homes have registered does this not equate to 7.5% only??

Anyway even if 60% register fools they are as it would be still to much of a massive undertaking to bring 640,000 people to court.

But if the yes people want to throw away there 100 euro let them just dont look for your money back when the whole idea is scrapped!!

DONT REGISTER DONT PAY!!

Nobody gets taken to court, I thought we all agreed on that ages ago, they place a charge on your property !

Mr CJ

Just over 4 weeks left and 92.5% of householders have not registered!!

1,480,000 PEOPLE STILL HAVE NOT REGISTERED WITH SUCH A SHORT TIME LEFTLMAO

WELL DONE!!

dvpower

Mr CJ wrote: »

This calculation is flawed it does not balance out, according to you the total % equates to 110%

44% + 36% + 20% = 100% (base: those who haven't paid)
10% (base: everyone liable to pay)

You really ought to read what you're commenting on before you go and say something stupid.

gigino

lividduck wrote: »

they place a charge on your property !

"they" will be placing an awful lot of charges on an awful lot of properties....methinks they will not get around to placing so many charges. Given "they" get an average retirement gratuity of 81,000 tax free from whatever 100's they collect, there will be rioting on the streets over food before all the charges are made. Mark my words.

dvpower

gigino wrote: »

"they" will be placing an awful lot of charges on an awful lot of properties....methinks they will not get around to placing so many charges. Given "they" get an average retirement gratuity of 81,000 tax free from whatever 100's they collect, there will be rioting on the streets over food before all the charges are made. Mark my words.

The anti-charge people had an opportunity to take to the streets yesterday, but they stayed at home in their droves.

gigino

dvpower wrote: »

The anti-charge people had an opportunity to take to the streets yesterday, but they stayed at home in their droves.

some may have been at work or had other commitments.

TheZohanS

I hope they raise the charge for those that did register to €500!!

dvpower

gigino wrote: »

some may have been at work or had other commitments.

I suspect thats it. The tax is unpopular, but not so much that people are really committed to non payment. When pressure is applied, they'll pay.

If the opinion poll results are accurate and around 60% do pay by the deadline, then the uncommitted NO people will realise that the tax isn't going to be overturned and they will start to pay.

dvpower

TheZohan wrote: »

I hope they raise the charge for those that did register to €500!!

Why?
If they raise it to €500 for the people who registered, wouldn't they be raising it for everyone?

Mr CJ

dvpower wrote: »

44% + 36% + 20% = 100% (base: those who haven't paid)
10% (base: everyone liable to pay)

You really ought to read what you're commenting on before you go and say something stupid.

Stupid?? your confusing yourself by the looks of it.

Out of 100%, 44% say yes, 36% say no and 20% do not know = 100%
Your the one not reading what you say yourself, You said "Add the 10% who have already paid" this does not make any sence to me as who have paid is irrelevent.

dvpower

Mr CJ wrote: »

Stupid?? your confusing yourself by the looks of it.

Out of 100%, 44% say yes, 36% say no and 20% do not know = 100%
Your the one not reading what you say yourself, You said "Add the 10% who have already paid" this does not make any sence to me as who have paid is irrelevent.

The 100% in the poll is not 100% of all people, it is 100% of people who haven't already paid - that's c.90% of everyone.

The other c.10% have already paid.

poppyvally

Shenshen wrote: »

It's €100, that's around €8.33 a month.

I'm finding it absolutely baffling how people can get worked up over this, yet will happily spend as much on a single drink on a night out....

Get a grip. Seriously.

Well, the 100euro is only for starters. They'll keep increasing it every year & before long it will be 1,400 like it is in Gt Britain

dxhound2005

gigino wrote: »

"they" will be placing an awful lot of charges on an awful lot of properties....methinks they will not get around to placing so many charges. Given "they" get an average retirement gratuity of 81,000 tax free from whatever 100's they collect, there will be rioting on the streets over food before all the charges are made. Mark my words.

This is what the legislation says. It will only come into play when a house in being sold or transferred and will just be part of the conveyancing procedure.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

The vendor of a residential property shall, before the completion
of the sale of the property, pay to the relevant local authority
all household charges, late payment fees and late payment interest
due and owing to the relevant local authority in respect of that residential
property.
(4) On or before the completion of the sale of a residential property,
the vendor of that residential property shall, in respect of that
residential property, give to the purchaser—
(a) a certificate of discharge,
(b) a certificate of exemption, or
(c) a certificate of waiver,
as may be appropriate, in respect of each year in which a liability
date fell since the date of the last sale of the property.
(5) As against a bona fide purchaser or mortgagee of such property
for full consideration in money or money’s worth without notice,
or a person deriving title from or under such a purchaser or mortgagee,
a certificate of discharge, a certificate of waiver or a certificate
of exemption shall discharge the property concerned from liability
for any household charge and related late payment fee and late payment
interest due by the owner of that property for each year in
which the liability date or dates to which the certificate relates fell.
(6) A person who contravenes subsection (3) shall be guilty of an
offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a class C fine.

As an indicator of how much could be owed in a fairly short time take a look at the table here for people who have paid none of their €200 per year NPPR for the last 3 years.

https://www.nppr.ie/Faq.aspx#fk1

People can go rioting or whatever but this sort of legal stuff only disappears with the removal of the law from the statute books. For which you need to elect the Socialist Party.

Mr CJ

dvpower wrote: »

The 100% in the poll is not 100% of all people, it is 100% of people who haven't already paid - that's c.90% of everyone.

The other c.10% have already paid.

When I read people who have not paid where surveyed, I assumed that this meant people who have not registered?

So they had a control as in people surveyed have not paid but may have registered? To me this is a bit backward, the survey should of been carried out on people who have not registered end off.

Surely if this is the case the percentage would be extremely lower than 10%, I would guess that at least 80% who have registered would of paying right away.

Still confused....

mikom

TheZohan wrote: »

I hope they raise the charge for those that did register to €500!!

Wait till the next budget.
€300 minimum.

TheZohanS

dvpower wrote: »

Why?
If they raise it to €500 for the people who registered, wouldn't they be raising it for everyone?

Because you only milk the cows that walk to the parlour.

Ghandee

TheZohan wrote: »

Because you only milk the cows that walk to the parlour.

Lol!

dvpower

TheZohan wrote: »

Because you only milk the cows that walk to the parlour.

I see. You think that the tax will survive, at least for a year, when they will raise the level and they will forgive all but those who register. An interesting, if unlikely, scenario.

What I don't understand is why you want the people who do register to pay it to be punished. What have you got against them?

TheZohanS

dvpower wrote: »

I see. You think that the tax will survive, at least for a year, when they will raise the level and they will forgive all but those who register. An interesting, if unlikely, scenario.

What I don't understand is why you want the people who do register to pay it to be punished. What have you got against them?

I've nothing against anyone that wants to pay more taxes. I didn't say that I thought the tax would survive either, but if it does I hope that it's imposed upon those that did register, they can clearly afford it and have no problem paying it. Let them on. lol

dvpower

TheZohan wrote: »

I've nothing against anyone that wants to pay more taxes.

You think the people who register to pay the household charge want to pay it?
You think the people who register to pay the household charge have no problem paying it?
That's just a bit naive isn't it?

TheZohan wrote: »

I didn't say that I thought the tax would survive either, but if it does I hope that it's imposed upon those that did register, they can clearly afford it and have no problem paying it. Let them on. lol

Clearly, if you want it to be increased, you must think it will survive. As long as it isn't scrapped, then it applies to every liable person, not just those who register.