Formula 1 2012: General Discussion Thread

Myrddin · 23-07-2012 1:23pm

Is Texas still likely to go ahead??

frostie500 · 23-07-2012 1:27pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Is Texas still likely to go ahead??

yeah it's going ahead. I was talking to someone from COT last month and they said that while they've had issues it's going ahead

TheChrisD · 23-07-2012 4:57pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Is Texas still likely to go ahead??

Why is it I read that and thought "F1 at Texas Motor Speedway"

They really should've just picked a current road course to improve and used that instead of building another one

freestyla · 23-07-2012 5:13pm

Sauber had a meeting with Volkswagen

But doesn't reveal what they talked about.

I hope they get good funds for the next season also.

http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/regen-verhexte-sauber-duo-id1970872.html

Jordan 199 · 23-07-2012 5:27pm

TheChrisD wrote: »

Why is it I read that and thought "F1 at Texas Motor Speedway"

They really should've just picked a current road course to improve and used that instead of building another one

Which one do you think they should have chosen?

PJTierney · 23-07-2012 5:59pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Which one do you think they should have chosen?

Before he answers that lemme just say that Laguna Seca and Road America would have to be murdered in order to be brought up to FIA Grade 1. The only real alternative to building Austin is returning to Indy.

PJTierney · 23-07-2012 6:00pm

freestyla wrote: »

Sauber had a meeting with Volkswagen

But doesn't reveal what they talked about.

I hope they get good funds for the next season also.

http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/regen-verhexte-sauber-duo-id1970872.html

I hope it's a 2014 Engine deal, could even pave the way for Audi to enter (though it's unlikely).

23-07-2012 7:04pm

TheChrisD wrote: »

Why is it I read that and thought "F1 at Texas Motor Speedway"

They really should've just picked a current road course to improve and used that instead of building another one

Such a waste that they're going to build yet another track that'll probably fall out of use in less that a decade. Obviously it'll never happen but I would absolutely love F1 on an oval. :pac:

Grim. · 23-07-2012 7:34pm

well its better than them ruining the likes of Road America/Road Atlanta to accommodate F1

TheChrisD · 23-07-2012 7:57pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Which one do you think they should have chosen?

Not sure where exactly would have been the best pick business-wise. What with the New Jersey GP, going to the Glen is out of the question despite the fact the Glen has had major upgrades in the past few years.

Perhaps Sonoma could have taken them, especially since Infineon's naming sponsorship finished a few months ago, so a new naming sponsor could have jumped on board fairly quick if they were going to get F1 racing there.

PJTierney wrote: »

Before he answers that lemme just say that Laguna Seca and Road America would have to be murdered in order to be brought up to FIA Grade 1. The only real alternative to building Austin is returning to Indy.

Laguna had a test a few years ago with a Toyota F1 car, so the track would be fine, just a tad too short since they lap there under 70 seconds. I don't see why RA would need to be changed - if the FIA are that scared of the Kink, there's an optional chicane right before it that can be used to reduce the speed.

Deleted User wrote: »

Such a waste that they're going to build yet another track that'll probably fall out of use in less that a decade.

Maybe when that happens IndyCar can pick it up and we'll have some real proper open-wheel racing there (I would have said "racing" in general, but the V8 Supercars in 2013 will be a riot!). Whether Eddie Gossage would allow it is another question.

In fact, I have to wonder if IndyCar returning to Houston in 2013 is a possible attempt at "muscling in" on F1, especially given it's at the start of October?

23-07-2012 9:55pm

Grim. wrote: »

well its better than them ruining the likes of Road America/Road Atlanta to accommodate F1

It's a waste either way.

In fact, I have to wonder if IndyCar returning to Houston in 2013 is a possible attempt at "muscling in" on F1, especially given it's at the start of October?

More of a piggy-back attempt I would've thought.

Daniel S · 23-07-2012 11:36pm

freestyla wrote: »

Sauber had a meeting with Volkswagen

But doesn't reveal what they talked about.

I hope they get good funds for the next season also.

http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/regen-verhexte-sauber-duo-id1970872.html

LAAAAAAAAD! :pac:

Jordan 199 · 24-07-2012 12:47am

TheChrisD wrote: »

Not sure where exactly would have been the best pick business-wise. What with the New Jersey GP, going to the Glen is out of the question despite the fact the Glen has had major upgrades in the past few years.

Perhaps Sonoma could have taken them, especially since Infineon's naming sponsorship finished a few months ago, so a new naming sponsor could have jumped on board fairly quick if they were going to get F1 racing there.

I agree with what you say about the New Jersey GP. I do like the Watkins Glen circuit though.

Laguna had a test a few years ago with a Toyota F1 car, so the track would be fine, just a tad too short since they lap there under 70 seconds. I don't see why RA would need to be changed - if the FIA are that scared of the Kink, there's an optional chicane right before it that can be used to reduce the speed.

Road America is a great circuit. Nice and quick with elevation changes. Would be great to have an F1 race there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duNKaCRm89c

Jordan 199 · 24-07-2012 12:52am

TheChrisD wrote: »

Laguna had a test a few years ago with a Toyota F1 car, so the track would be fine, just a tad too short since they lap there under 70 seconds.

Didn't know Toyota sent one of their F1 cars around Laguna Seca until you mentioned it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_bWOdY6mbU

freestyla · 24-07-2012 9:54am

Any track with loads of elevation changes is good IMO. These cars could stick upside down at over 200 km/h(?) anyway!
Add a blind corner or two, 1 good straight, 1 hairpin, 1 slow chicane, 1 beckets&maggots and 1 parabolica = perfect

I think there are many new racing tracks built around world because it's easier to start from the scratch than renovate some decades old ones.
Also, old ones are kinda preserved this way, there certain corners, paddock area, memories, other activities going on etc. so locals (or owners or whoelse) don't want to scrap them.

But then you have that corporation cocking around - if you want big company as a sponsor, their management would rather go for new shiny hi-tech Wi-fi GPS HD facilities than sticking to traditional layouts.

Example Hockenheim

Well.. new facilities are needed for simple reason could be also that world population is growing fast as well :P no but really.. now you have probably twice or even much more people involved in motorsport than back in old days.

the culture of deference · 24-07-2012 12:30pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Didn't know Toyota sent one of their F1 cars around Laguna Seca until you mentioned it.

Great view of the corkscrew, it's like a backwards Eau rouge

Jordan 199 · 24-07-2012 1:57pm

freestyla wrote: »

Sauber had a meeting with Volkswagen

But doesn't reveal what they talked about.

I hope they get good funds for the next season also.

Mentioned on www.crash.net too.

These rumours about VW entering F1 come up every now and then. If they were to enter, which VW brand would they use?

One of their brands, Lamborghini supplied V12 engines to F1 teams from 1989 - 1993. Hakkinen & Senna got a flavour of Lambo power in a McLaren in 1993.

Back then, Lamborghini was controlled by Chrysler.

Jordan 199 · 24-07-2012 4:49pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

They would most likely come in as VW. Formula one has such a worldwide catchment why would they use one of the brands they own?

Maybe. At the moment, the VW group are using the Audi name in sportscars and will be using the VW name in WRC.

Look at what Ford did when they took over Stewart. The didn't promote the Ford brand, but they promoted the Jaguar brand, which Ford owned at the time.

vectra · 24-07-2012 5:40pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Mentioned on www.crash.net too.

These rumours about VW entering F1 come up every now and then. If they were to enter, which VW brand would they use?

One of their brands, Lamborghini supplied V12 engines to F1 teams from 1989 - 1993. Hakkinen & Senna got a flavour of Lambo power in a McLaren in 1993.

Back then, Lamborghini was controlled by Chrysler.

Wasn't EJ talking to VW back in the days and nothing ever came out of it.

Jordan 199 · 24-07-2012 8:47pm

vectra wrote: »

Wasn't EJ talking to VW back in the days and nothing ever came out of it.

Off the top of my head, I don't think he did. He was talking to Mercedes Benz about getting their motors at one time alright.

vectra · 24-07-2012 9:13pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Off the top of my head, I don't think he did. He was talking to Mercedes Benz about getting their motors at one time alright.

You could be right but I could swear there was talk of him being in contact with VW.

mickdw · 24-07-2012 9:33pm

vectra wrote: »

You could be right but I could swear there was talk of him being in contact with VW.

I think there was talk of it at one time alright. Then again, with EJ, there was always talk of some deal.

the culture of deference · 24-07-2012 10:05pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Off the top of my head, I don't think he did. He was talking to Mercedes Benz about getting their motors at one time alright.

But Eddie Jordan has remained upbeat about his team’s future and is edging towards a deal for Mercedes-Benz customer engines for 2004.
Jordan has been in talks with Mercedes-Benz for several weeks and is believed to favour a deal with the German car manufacturer.
Sources claim that Jordan's current deal with Ford effectively costs R142,2 million. A Mercedes deal would probably cost around R118,5 – or possibly less if the team employed drivers favoured by the German manufacturer (like McLaren test driver Alexander Wurz, for example).

http://www.carmag.co.za/article/jordan-seeks-mercedes-engines-2003-06-20

Ford had a 3 year contract and wouldn't let him go

Jordan ran a Reynard-VW during the 1987 season with herbert

The VW story

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/40440/1/jordan-volkswagen_in_2004.html

vectra · 25-07-2012 12:29am

mickdw wrote: »

I think there was talk of it at one time alright. Then again, with EJ, there was always talk of some deal.

There was always talk anyway,, whatever about a deal

Jordan 199 · 25-07-2012 1:02am

the culture of deference wrote: »

Ford had a 3 year contract and wouldn't let him go

EJ signed the deal to bring the Ford name back into F1 with Ford's European arm.

The engines Jordan used in 2003 were used by Jaguar in the previous season, with upgrades.

In 2004, Jordan started off with the same spec engines as Jaguar, but throughout the course of the 2004 season the Cosworths in the Jaguar were being updated while the Cosworths in the Jordan weren't.

To be honest, those Cosworths weren't up to much in the power stakes, so I can see why EJ wanted the Merc powerplants.

PJTierney · 25-07-2012 9:47am

Jordan 191 wrote: »

EJ signed the deal to bring the Ford name back into F1 with Ford's European arm.

The engines Jordan used in 2003 were used by Jaguar in the previous season, with upgrades.

In 2004, Jordan started off with the same spec engines as Jaguar, but throughout the course of the 2004 season the Cosworths in the Jaguar were being updated while the Cosworths in the Jordan weren't.

To be honest, those Cosworths weren't up to much in the power stakes, so I can see why EJ wanted the Merc powerplants.

There's also the fact that they lost the Honda power. In 2000 (or 2001?) Honda were supplying both Jordan and BAR, but couldn't afford to do so next season. They told them to fight it out for the season, best team gets the engines. Jordan lost, and their decline began.

counterlock · 25-07-2012 11:31am

PJTierney wrote: »

There's also the fact that they lost the Honda power. In 2000 (or 2001?) Honda were supplying both Jordan and BAR, but couldn't afford to do so next season. They told them to fight it out for the season, best team gets the engines. Jordan lost, and their decline began.

Not really true, he really bent over backwards for Honda, getting Sato in and as far as I remember, his two points in Japan lifted them ahead of BAR. I think the decline was when they lost the mugen. When they were given the works engines along with BAR, there was only ever going to be one winner.

Not to mention the vodafone court case. It was probably the final straw for him having to bear the legal costs of the case.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2859730/Jordans-Vodafone-claim-thrown-out.html

Jordan 199 · 25-07-2012 1:19pm

PJTierney wrote: »

There's also the fact that they lost the Honda power. In 2000 (or 2001?) Honda were supplying both Jordan and BAR, but couldn't afford to do so next season. They told them to fight it out for the season, best team gets the engines. Jordan lost, and their decline began.

Honda supplied both Jordan & BAR with engines for the 2001 & 2002 seasons.

At the 2002 Hungarian GP, Honda dissolved their relationship with Jordan, but they did compensate EJ so he could get the Cosworths for 2003.

StephenHendry · 25-07-2012 2:09pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Honda supplied both Jordan & BAR with engines for the 2001 & 2002 seasons.

At the 2002 Hungarian GP, Honda dissolved their relationship with Jordan, but they did compensate EJ so he could get the Cosworths for 2003.

then eddie had that courtcase with vodafone which didnt end too well for him , cost him a lot of money did that. hadn't they agreed to sponsor jordan or at least eddie was under that impression

Jordan 199 · 25-07-2012 2:32pm

StephenHendry wrote: »

then eddie had that courtcase with vodafone which didnt end too well for him , cost him a lot of money did that. hadn't they agreed to sponsor jordan or at least eddie was under that impression

Eddie said he had a verbal contract with Vodafone to sponsor his team. In the link counterlock posted above, it said EJ's legal fees were to be around £5m.

Formula 1 2012: General Discussion Thread

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