Teenager attacked by teen in custody of HSE

Patrick2010

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1212/clare.html

An 18-year-old man has been jailed for 12 years for an unprovoked, sustained and ferocious attack on a 16-year-old boy at a petrol station in Co Clare.
He inflicted 65 kicks and stamps on the boy as well as two stamps to his chest and 26 punches. The victim has been left with permanent brain damage.
The 18-year-old was originally charged with attempted murder but the prosecution accepted a plea of assault causing serious harm.
He was in the care of the HSE and was being transferred back to his accommodation by two female social care workers when he demanded the driver of the car stop at the service station.
Mr Justice Paul Carney directed that the CCTV footage of the attack be played to the courtroom before he imposed his sentence this afternoon, so that the ferocity of the gratuitous kicking of the boy's head could be appreciated and his sentence understood.
He warned anyone who was squeamish to leave the courtroom before the footage, lasting around five minutes, was shown.
The victim was waiting for his mother just before 10pm on 23 July last year.
The CCTV footage showed him sitting on a windowsill when he was attacked by the now 18-year-old. The older teenager repeatedly punched him in the face, stamped on his head and kicked his head as he lay motionless on the ground.
The assault continued for more than four minutes after the boy stopped moving.
The older boy briefly left the scene, leaving the younger teenage boy lying on the ground. He then returned and began stamping on the boy's head again.
The attack was observed by 11 eyewitnesses but it was only when the teenager returned to attack the boy for a second time that a man intervened and forced him to move away.
Mr Justice Carney said he was taking into account the unprovoked nature of the attack, its ferocity, and its sustained nature.
He said only the intervention of a third party saved the boy from much worse. He said he was also taking into account the nature of the injuries and their effect on the victim.
He said the appropriate sentence was 15 years but he suspended the final three having regard to the 18-year-old's guilty plea, his lack of previous convictions and his young age.
The boy's family did not want to comment afterwards.
They left the courts in tears.
The court was told that the boy suffers from weakness on his right side, deafness, as well as memory and speech problems.





Where were the 2 social workers while he was spending 5 minutes attacking the poor kid and why did none of the 11 onlookers intervene?

XxMCRxBabyxX

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Where were the 2 social workers while he was spending 5 minutes attacking the poor kid and why did none of the 11 onlookers intervene?

That is the same question that my dad and I asked while watching this story on the news earlier. Four minutes and no one felt the need to step in?

7Sins

People are less likely to do anything in such incidences when there's other people around as they assume someone else will. Not to forget the morons that would hit record on their phone first before thinking to dial 999 or 911 whatever the number is

emo72

how do we breed kids like this in our country? it seems to be getting worse.

Guill

Isn't it great that you can get time off your sentence for 'no previous convictions'. No matter how vicious and dangerous you are.

ProudDUB

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Where were the 2 social workers while he was spending 5 minutes attacking the poor kid and why did none of the 11 onlookers intervene?

I'd love to know that too. And the really sad thing is that even if this scumbag serves the full 12 years of his sentence (which he probably won't knowing our legal system) he will be a mere 30 years old when he gets out. He is all set to start his life all over again, but the poor victim may be stuck with injuries that may scar his life forever.

TeddyTedson

It seems bizarre that nobody stepped in seeing as it went on for four and a half minutes!? Although it's not a surprise to me, from experience.
Absolutely devastating for that 16 year old, and for his family to have their world turned upside down like that.

ASOT

I honestly dont understand how people wouldn't intervene, especially in a situation like that. Fair enough if its a gang ect but it was one lad. 11 bystanders and not a single one doing anything is sickening.

Iv stopped 2 or 3 fights in town where it was basically one lad beating the crap out of another while literally 30 odd people did nothing and dozens more walked by. I know people want to keep out of trouble by ignoring it but in situations like this id be willing to get myself hurt.

Maybe thats just me though but one intervention their could have saved the poor lad from the damage he suffered!

TeddyTedson

ProudDUB wrote: »

I'd love to know that too. And the really sad thing is that even if this scumbag serves the full 12 years of his sentence (which he probably won't knowing our legal system) he will be a mere 30 years old when he gets out. He is all set to start his life all over again, but the poor victim may be stuck with injuries that may scar his life forever.

He was left with permanent brain damage.
The even sadder thing is maybe if someone stepped in he'd have been ok.

Haelium

ASOT wrote: »

I honestly dont understand how people wouldn't intervene, especially in a situation like that. Fair enough if its a gang ect but it was one lad. 11 bystanders and not a single one doing anything is sickening.

Iv stopped 2 or 3 fights in town where it was basically one lad beating the crap out of another while literally 30 odd people did nothing and dozens more walked by. I know people want to keep out of trouble by ignoring it but in situations like this id be willing to get myself hurt.

Maybe thats just me though but one intervention their could have saved the poor lad from the damage he suffered!

It's because they know that if they were to intervene they would probably end up being judged more harshly in court than the average psychotic we hear about.

investment

Bystander effect
The bystander effect refers to the phenomenon in which the greater the number of people present, the less likely people are to help a person in distress. When an emergency situation occurs, observers are more likely to take action if there are few or no other witnesses.

XxMCRxBabyxX

7Sins wrote: »

People are less likely to do anything in such incidences when there's other people around as they assume someone else will. Not to forget the morons that would hit record on their phone first before thinking to dial 999 or 911 whatever the number is

Honestly, I could understand that for the first 30 seconds or so but surely people would start thinking something needs to be done when it is still going on after that. People stood and watched for four minutes. They did nothing until he stopped himself. They should feel ashamed of themselves for standing by and letting a 16 year old nearly lose his physical life and have his whole mental and social life change because of their inability

amacachi

Judging from another thread here tonight I'm surprised some posters haven't suggested that the two social workers and all the onlookers must be Chinese.

Aoifey!

That story is horrific. The poor boy. I cannot believe not one person intervened or tried to stop him.

pragmatic1

emo72 wrote: »

how do we breed kids like this in our country? it seems to be getting worse.

Because some dumb twats have kids and then decide that they cant look after them.

stupidusername

Don't get why everyone is so shocked that no witnesses stepped in. I would be the most likely person to do something in a situation but imagining this for what it was,i can see myself being very reluctant to do so.you have to consider what is likely to happen you if you do. And I dont know about the witnesses but i'm not very physically able to take on a man

af_thefragile

stupidusername wrote: »

Don't get why everyone is so shocked that no witnesses stepped in. I would be the most likely person to do something in a situation but imagining this for what it was,i can see myself being very reluctant to do so.you have to consider what is likely to happen you if you do. And I dont know about the witnesses but i'm not very physically able to take on a man

True. I couldn't stand witnessing something like that happening and neither could I just walk away from such a thing not doing anything about it. But at the same time I'ld be quite reluctant stepping in. I'm not a very physically big guy and you can't overestimate retard strength!

To be honest I dunno what I'ld have done. Maybe called for help or something...

investment

Even though i understand why no one stepped in the save the victim

The guy was 18 ffs..he was hardy fcuking arman khan, the grown men shown have intervened, even just to stand over the victims body and stop the attack from continuing on any further

I was love to give that scumbag the same kicking, typical single mother scumbag

stupidusername

af_thefragile wrote: »

True. I couldn't stand witnessing something like that happening and neither could I just walk away from such a thing not doing anything about it. But at the same time I'ld be quite reluctant stepping in. I'm not a very physically big guy and you can't overestimate retard strength!

To be honest I dunno what I'ld have done. Maybe called for help or something...

That's what i'm saying,it's easy for everyone here to judge and say why didn't they,but if you're put in that position I wonder how many here would actually do something. And i'm not necessarily saying those who wouldn't are cowards,just maybe dont judge others so harshly.

I can imagine that yeah I probably would shout at him to stop or call the gardai or maybe ask someone to help stop him

TeddyTedson

The 11 by standers quote may be misleading though I suppose. Some could have been OAPS, children or women (I'm not being sexist there but this guy could have been huge and you can't expect your average woman to take on a man who is full of rage).
But someone in my position has no excuses.

Kristopherus

Patrick2010 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1212/clare.html

Where were the 2 social workers while he was spending 5 minutes attacking the poor kid and why did none of the 11 onlookers intervene?

Its very likely he would have turned on the Social Workers had they tried to intervene. If he had hurt any of them, the taxpayer would be picking up the tab when she sues:(

Da Shins Kelly

That's horrific. Can't believe no one did anything. I'm a fairly short, not so strong girl, but I'd have at least said something or called on someone else who was bigger and stronger to do something.

pragmatic1

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

That's horrific. Can't believe no one did anything. I'm a fairly short, not so strong girl, but I'd have at least said something or called on someone else who was bigger and stronger to do something.

You're a girl? And you like hip hop. Marry me.

Da Shins Kelly

pragmatic1 wrote: »

You're a girl? And you like hip hop. Marry me.

Let's do it.

44leto

That is an incredibly sad OP and a worry for us all.

Doc Ruby

investment wrote: »

Bystander effect
The bystander effect refers to the phenomenon in which the greater the number of people present, the less likely people are to help a person in distress. When an emergency situation occurs, observers are more likely to take action if there are few or no other witnesses.

stupidusername wrote: »

I can imagine that yeah I probably would shout at him to stop or call the gardai or maybe ask someone to help stop him

I'd have left half his teeth lying on the ground beside his unconscious stretched out body. What is wrong with people these days. You have to remember there are worse things to lose than a few months freedom.

TeddyTedson

44leto wrote: »

That is an incredibly sad OP and a worry for us all.

It's sad alright but nothing for most of us to worry about, that might sound harsh but most of us won't ever experience anything like this to that extreme

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I'd have left half his teeth lying on the ground beside his unconscious stretched out body. What is wrong with people these days. You have to remember there are worse things to lose than a few months freedom.

You'd do time if you went over board like you sound like you would, but you could take action in an appropriate time without having to serve time, you don't need to knock him unconscious and smash out his teeth, although he'd probably deserve it.

Da Shins Kelly

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I'd have left half his teeth lying on the ground beside his unconscious stretched out body. What is wrong with people these days. You have to remember there are worse things to lose than a few months freedom.

I'm pretty sure there was some test done on this that showed that people are less likely to interfere in an incident if they are part of a group. However, if someone points directly at an individual and asks them to help, apparently it's then much more likely that they'll get help.

Doc Ruby

TeddyTedson wrote: »

You'd do time if you went over board like you sound like you would, but you could take action in an appropriate time without having to serve time, you don't need to knock him unconscious and smash out his teeth, although he'd probably deserve it.

I maybe didn't phrase it like perhaps I should have, but I'd rather do the time than spend the rest of my life looking at myself in the mirror wondering if I could have saved a young lad from brain damage.

flutterflye

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there was some test done on this that showed that people are less likely to interfere in an incident if they are part of a group. However, if someone points directly at an individual and asks them to help, apparently it's then much more likely that they'll get help.

Was that not part of the by stander effect experiments?

Da Shins Kelly

flutterflye wrote: »

Was that not part of the by stander effect experiments?

Yeah, I think so. Someone may have mentioned it already, I haven't read all the posts.

It really is just another tragic example of the depths our society has sunk to. My heart froze when I heard this story on the news earlier, that could have easily been my younger brother, and no doubt this boy is someone's. While it is impossible to truly know what one would actually do in that situation unless they were in it themselves, I can honestly say that I would not stand by and watch one kid beat the living shít out of another for 4 minutes.

4 minutes is a long fúcking time. That is a prolonged assault, pure obliteration. It is scary to think that this can happen in broad daylight in a public space, so much for the age-old 'safety in numbers' theory. I for one would not have been able to watch the CCTV footage shown in the courthouse.

But this is modern day Ireland (and I'm sure it happens in many other countries also) and just because you aren't looking for your head to be handed to you doesn't mean it's guaranteed not to happen. In the last week alone I've encountered first hand some of the anti-social behaviour that has become more prevalent in the last decade or so, the sort where despite your primary want, for the good of your health you must just swallow your pride and walk on.

1. While walking to my car on a busy street I felt something whizz by me that at first I thought was a snowball, but when I turned around I was faced with a barrage of eggs coming over a nearby wall from a gang of 5-6 teens. I taunted them each time they threw and missed as I kept walking to my car, what I really wanted to do was pick up the nearest object (they appeared to have sticks) and go meet them in battle. But back in the real world I walked to my car and was glad to get there not being pursued by the little bumscags.

2. While coming out of a shop a few days ago in the same general area as the above situation, there was a group of 3 lads in their late teens/early 20s hanging out by the door. Just as I was going out my path crossed with one of theirs and I said 'go on ahead there', his reply was 'Ladies first'. Instantly my blood boiled but what was I gonna do? I couldn't start a ruck in the doorway of a busy deli/shop at lunchtime on a Sunday, nor did I want to get into a verbal or physical altercation with this sniggering 'adult' and hence more than likely his 2 accomplices.

In the OP the attacker is touched in the head, therefore he can't be blamed entirely for his actions. But seriously, where the fúck were the 2 social workers whose 'care' the boy was supposed to be in? Out of 11 eye witnesses was there not at least some grown men, maybe fathers themselves there to team up and restrain the aggressor until the cops arrived? Such a sad, horrifying, belief-shaking story. My heart goes out to the poor 16 year old boy and his family.

Stinicker

12 years? for this, the scumbag should be hung quite simply. I would also ask what sort of morons are the HSE?

The two "minders" should not have stopped for him and I would also ask what sort of managers left two female social workers handle a piece of mental scum like this? I am not sexist or trying to be but it could have easily have been them he attacked, the likes of him should be transported by two "brutish" type heavies, and I know plenty of women who could kick my own ass so I'm not saying them being women was the cause of this but they should be able to kick ass when needed!

What did they or 11 others do, nothing? If I happened to be there I'd put my neck on the line to try break up a scrap and get some makeshift weapon (petrol station you can imagine) to keep the scummer back. We have guards hammering the bejasus out of poor old crustie stoners at protest marches who are quite harmless when it is the sort of scum like this that deserves it.

This guy should have been properly supervised and if he had proper heavys watching him it should have been him who would be disabled for life and not some innocent 16 yr old chap. I hope the victims family sues to the HSE for millions.

MagicSean

You clearly have no idea how difficult the HSE workers have it when it comes to dealing with these kids. It's a job I wouldn't wish on anyone. They are constantly subject to violence and threats. And of course they are understaffed too. Maybe you should also keep in mind that the kids aren't prisoners.

flutterflye

MagicSean wrote: »

You clearly have no idea how difficult the HSE workers have it when it comes to dealing with these kids. It's a job I wouldn't wish on anyone. They are constantly subject to violence and threats. And of course they are understaffed too.

This can not possibly be relevant here.

We can only speculate of course - but it says that there were 2 social workers escorting the boy, then he gets out to go to the shop.
Where were they???

The fact that the hse is ridiculously understaffed does not apply here as a good reason for the two social workers to be mia.

BickNarry

Stinicker wrote: »

12 years? for this, the scumbag should be hung quite simply. I would also ask what sort of morons are the HSE?

The two "minders" should not have stopped for him and I would also ask what sort of managers left two female social workers handle a piece of mental scum like this? I am not sexist or trying to be but it could have easily have been them he attacked, the likes of him should be transported by two "brutish" type heavies, and I know plenty of women who could kick my own ass so I'm not saying them being women was the cause of this but they should be able to kick ass when needed!

What did they or 11 others do, nothing? If I happened to be there I'd put my neck on the line to try break up a scrap and get some makeshift weapon (petrol station you can imagine) to keep the scummer back. We have guards hammering the bejasus out of poor old crustie stoners at protest marches who are quite harmless when it is the sort of scum like this that deserves it.

This guy should have been properly supervised and if he had proper heavys watching him it should have been him who would be disabled for life and not some innocent 16 yr old chap. I hope the victims family sues to the HSE for millions.

That's a bit unfair. That's like asking someone to wear a bullet proof vest incase someone shoots them, instead of expecting the other person not to go shooting people.

MagicMarker

investment wrote: »

typical single mother scumbag

WTF??

Caoimhín

emo72 wrote: »

how do we breed kids like this in our country? it seems to be getting worse.

Ooooh, careful now or I'll go off on a rant about the benefits of eugenics.

Leftist

stankratz wrote: »

It really is just another tragic example of the depths our society has sunk to. .

Oh Jesus. That is classic. A mentally deranged man attacks another man and it's an example of how society has sunk.

It's no wonder the daily mail exists when you have people like this hanging around.

du Maurier

investment wrote: »

Even though i understand why no one stepped in the save the victim

The guy was 18 ffs..he was hardy fcuking arman khan, the grown men shown have intervened, even just to stand over the victims body and stop the attack from continuing on any further

I was love to give that scumbag the same kicking, typical single mother scumbag

Amir Khan got his ass handed to him over the weekend!:pac:

But a good roar would have sufficed from anyone of the witnesses - it can have a really good effect, should they not wanted to have got involved physically.

the_syco

Kristopherus wrote: »

Its very likely he would have turned on the Social Workers had they tried to intervene. If he had hurt any of them, the taxpayer would be picking up the tab when she sues:(

I'm trying to figure out why he was with women who could not handle him if he got violent?

Oh, sorry, do you think it's sexist saying that the two women couldn't handle the one guy? It isn't; it's fact. He demanded they stop, so they stopped. He attacked someone, and they didn't do jack sh|t.

MagicSean wrote: »

Maybe you should also keep in mind that the kids aren't prisoners.

Maybe not, but handling them with kid gloves doesn't work.

facemelter

investment wrote: »

Bystander effect
The bystander effect refers to the phenomenon in which the greater the number of people present, the less likely people are to help a person in distress. When an emergency situation occurs, observers are more likely to take action if there are few or no other witnesses.

if heard of this before and its easy in hindsight for someone who wasnt there to say " why did no one do something !!" but the worst part is that the effects of the crime will far outlast the sentence i have no confidence in the Irish justice system at all , The sentence for a crime should outweigh the consequence of the crime and by how much should depend on the mature of the crime, and that sounds a little harsh but some one is now going to be walking free after serving his time , while the person he assaulted will now never have a full normal life ,

Danbo!

the_syco wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out why he was with women who could not handle him if he got violent?

Oh, sorry, do you think it's sexist saying that the two women couldn't handle the one guy? It isn't; it's fact. He demanded they stop, so they stopped. He attacked someone, and they didn't do jack sh|t.


Maybe not, but handling them with kid gloves doesn't work.

Like another poster pointed out these kids are not prisoners and are not escorted in bloody prison vans under high security. How do you know try didn't do jack sh1t? They may not have even realised it was happening, could have still been inside the shop.

Everytime time there's an incident or a missing child in care of the HSE everyone is up in arms screaming for the heads of HSE staff to roll. They are trying to look after kids whose parents wouldn't or couldn't care for them and give them a normal as possible life, if that's even slightly possible. I'm not saying any of this justifies the attack here, but social workers do not have all these kids under 24 hour surveillance.

Seachmall

facemelter wrote: »

if heard of this before and its easy in hindsight for someone who wasnt there to say " why did no one do something !!"

Exactly. Typically when people hear of these stories they assume they'd be the hero standing out from the crowd, generally they're full of ****. Talk is cheap, and until we've been in that situation we have no idea how we'd react (most likely we'd do nothing).

In saying that 4 minutes is a long time to be scratching your arse.

AeoNGriM

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

That is the same question that my dad and I asked while watching this story on the news earlier. Four minutes and no one felt the need to step in?

Both the social workers, and the 11 onlookers should be doing 5 years each for being miserable excuses for human beings. Fcuking pathetic.

Am wondering why a lesser plea was accepted, I'd say the prosecutors could very easily have gotten the attempted murder charge conviction.

The Snipe

I used to be in the attackers year in Shool, he was the biggest tool known to man!

Why in the **** was the conviction reduced from attempted murder? Surely stamping on someone's head before returning to do it again is attempted murder!

fenris

Because it would look bad for the negligent social workers to have facilitated an attempted murder?

Frank Black

Deleted User wrote: »

Why in the **** was the conviction reduced from attempted murder? Surely stamping on someone's head before returning to do it again is attempted murder!

No doubt about it - but apparently very difficult to prove legally.

He probably wouldn't have got more than 12 years anyway even if convicted for this.

This scumbag will be free as a bird in less than 7 years.

Seachmall

black francis wrote: »

No doubt about it - but apparently very difficult to prove legally.

I know you're right but it's ridiculous that you are dead on when you say that.

If a man hits a man in the head, it's assault, if he hits a few times it could still be assault, if he stomps on his head for 4 minutes after the guy has already lost consciousness then that is attempted murder.

In this case his actions clearly define his intent. It should be an open and closed case. Absolutely ridiculous.

kfallon

How long does it take Gardai to respond to 999 calls btw? I mean he was 5 mins at it, surely somebody in the petrol station rang the Guards and told them there was a serious assault taking place. I don't know the area but I would have expected somebody there within a couple of minutes, no? I'm not bashing the Gardai here btw, just wondering!

A truly awful story, made me :mad: and at the same time! A young lads life has been ruined.

I hope the offender is beaten to within an inch of his life every day for the duration of his sentence!