Dental Implants...advice needed

Chuck Stone

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Do the maths, or maybe ask Chuck stone to do it seeing that he/she seems to be into stats, and you’ll see that this just does not add up or even come close to making sense….

People are doing the maths and travelling in their droves.

Chuck stone, if all the evidence or lack of evidence is telling you to go and get a quick, cheap dental job then go and have it done and you’ll have all the proof you’ll ever need sitting in your gob.

Strawman misrepresentation.

I'm asking for evidence of your spurious claims.

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

I'm going to call a spade a spade here; dental tourism dental makeovers/ rehabilitations are pure crap.

OS

This is a bold claim for which you have no evidence.

Make the claim?

Back it up.

Oral Surgeon

Chuck Stone wrote: »

People are doing the maths and travelling in their droves.



Strawman misrepresentation.

I'm asking for evidence of your spurious claims.



This is a bold claim for which you have no evidence.

Make the claim?

Back it up.

I said do the maths on the mark up claims, doing the maths on treatment is not the same as you are not comparing like with like.

You argue that the absence of statistical evidence on my part is proof that dental tourism is good but yet you do not provide any statistical evidence that supports your view either... What we are down to then is our opinions and sorry mate but as a dentist and oral surgeon- I top trump you as I spend my day looking into mouths and hearing these stories on a regular basis.

There are 4 possible groups of dental tourist imo;

Those who come to me for massive re-treatment after terrible shoddy over treatment abroad- I see lots of these patients

Those who come to see me for other reasons and have dental tourism treatment too and the work is asymptomatic but less than ideal- I see a lot of these patients too

Those who come to see me for other reasons and have dental tourism treatment too and the work is good- I've seen none myself

Those who have dental tourism treatment and I have never seen-????

I post from great experience, you do not

Chuck Stone

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

You argue that the absence of statistical evidence on my part is proof that dental tourism is good

I certainly did not.

but yet you do not provide any statistical evidence that supports your view either...

I didn't claim that dental tourism is good.

What we are down to then is our opinions and sorry mate but as a dentist and oral surgeon- I top trump you as I spend my day looking into mouths and hearing these stories on a regular basis.

Confirmation bias. Learn what it means.

I post from great experience, you do not

Are you really that self-assured that you are willing to put forward the idea that your experiences of remedial work are in some way representative of the sum total of work carried on abroad?

Your personal (biased) experience =/= to empirical data on the efficacy of dental work carried out abroad.

cloneslad

If you want to go abroad, go abroad, quit crying here when people try giving you some advice. No one is stopping you from going, and no one is trying to get you to get the work done by them, so they really have nothing to benefit from giving you their advice.


I also think the whole 'but it's 2-3 times cheaper in Hungary' argument is stupid. Of course it's cheaper there, the cost of living is cheaper there, their wages are less, etc etc. locals could not afford to pay the high prices, therefore they would have very few patients.

Do you also complain that bread, milk, beer, cheese, etc is too expensive here? Do you complain because you get paid far more than the people of Hungary?

Quit crying, either get it done, come back in a few years and gloat, or just leave. If you don't mention dental tourism, then fitsgeme, OS etc won't have any reason to make negative posts about it.

Oral Surgeon

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I certainly did not.



I didn't claim that dental tourism is good.



Confirmation bias. Learn what it means.



Are you really that self-assured that you are willing to put forward the idea that your experiences of remedial work are in some way representative of the sum total of work carried on abroad?

Your personal (biased) experience =/= to empirical data on the efficacy of dental work carried out abroad.

OK, I get it, you are a statistician.... But you must also realize that clever statistics can be used to support or reject claims.

I know a small bit about stats and won't be dragged into a stats war with you for that reason but must also acknowledge that I know more about dental treatment and that is what is up for discussion here.

And yes, my personal opinion on this does matter, I've worked hard enough on my education to be in a position to form an opinion on these matters.

Chuck Stone

cloneslad wrote: »

If you want to go abroad, go abroad, quit crying here when people try giving you some advice. No one is stopping you from going, and no one is trying to get you to get the work done by them, so they really have nothing to benefit from giving you their advice.


I also think the whole 'but it's 2-3 times cheaper in Hungary' argument is stupid. Of course it's cheaper there, the cost of living is cheaper there, their wages are less, etc etc. locals could not afford to pay the high prices, therefore they would have very few patients.

Do you also complain that bread, milk, beer, cheese, etc is too expensive here? Do you complain because you get paid far more than the people of Hungary?

Quit crying, either get it done, come back in a few years and gloat, or just leave. If you don't mention dental tourism, then fitsgeme, OS etc won't have any reason to make negative posts about it.

Sorry but you've completely missed the point.

I'm not seeking advice on dental treatment.

Chuck Stone

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

OK, I get it, you are a statistician.... But you must also realize that clever statistics can be used to support or reject claims.

I'm no statistician believe me.

I know a small bit about stats and won't be dragged into a stats war with you for that reason but must also acknowledge that I know more about dental treatment and that is what is up for discussion here.

You'd probably win it if you could come up with some. I'm not great with numbers.

And yes, my personal opinion on this does matter, I've worked hard enough on my education to be in a position to form an opinion on these matters.

You may well be an expert oral surgeon and I say fair play to you for your achievements and hard work and wish you well. I'm not arguing from a position of begrudging.

I will say though that it's lending an opinion weight that's important.

cloneslad

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Sorry but you've completely missed the point.

I'm not seeking advice on dental treatment.

So you've come to the 'dental issues' forum and the 'Dental Implants......ADVICE NEEDED' thread, yet you don't seek advice?

You're here just to argue and waste people's time?

Chuck Stone

cloneslad wrote: »

You're here just to argue and waste people's time?

I'm interested in the subject. I had a look at the thread and seen some statements being made that I wanted clarified.

Are there some sort of criteria I'm unaware of that I must fulfill before I'm allowed ask questions?

Oral Surgeon

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm interested in the subject. I had a look at the thread and seen some statements being made that I wanted clarified.

Are there some sort of criteria I'm unaware of that I must fulfill before I'm allowed ask questions?

Just looked at your post history CS, not a useful, informative or constructive post among them.

If you want to Troll boards and argue with people from the safety of your bedroom while your mammy brings you tea and biscuits then off with you as I won't be wasting my time with you anymore. My (free) advise is for people who want to listen not people who want to argue.

OS

cloneslad

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm interested in the subject. I had a look at the thread and seen some statements being made that I wanted clarified.

Are there some sort of criteria I'm unaware of that I must fulfill before I'm allowed ask questions?

You don't allow people to provide an answer based on their own experiences. You seem to want these people to go out and carry out research on every dental tourist from Ireland.

The people in this forum offer 'their' advice based on 'their' experience and do it for free. They don't need to argue with someone who is unwilling to view the evidence they have provided for them (photos, xrays etc). I'm sure they'd have more fun over in after hours / motors / funny pics and vids and get no hassle, and most likely, more appreciation.

Chuck Stone

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Just looked at your post history CS, not a useful, informative or constructive post among them.

If you want to Troll boards and argue with people from the safety of your bedroom while your mammy brings you tea and biscuits then off with you as I won't be wasting my time with you anymore. My (free) advise is for people who want to listen not people who want to argue.

OS

As well as being grossly inaccurate ad hominem this is a very poor excuse for a reply and does your argument no favours.

cassi

Chuck in all fairness, you've been given answers. Maybe not the exact answer you wanted but an answer non the less. Search this forum, its makes for some extremely interesting (and at times horrifying) reading, if you're actually interested in the subject. Implants gone through the nasal cavity, cronic infections, loose work and the woman with an eyelash left in her implant was enough to turn my stomach.

There are several points to note on treatment, granted im not a dentist but you dont have to be one to understand.

People travel for dental work for cost reasons. If costs are so high its reasonable to assume there is alot of work needed, work that would take months to do. Take the Op he needs two implants amoung other work, as pointed out implants take months, giving for healing time, x rays, fittings, re fitting etc. This done in a week cant be good even if done by an extremely good dentist.

Os, fitz etc speak from experience, its not made up stories. Fitz has posted examples of work. Im sure plenty of people have had good experiences, but its important to consider that if things go bad, they go horribly bad, you don't have easy access to the dentist and probably little in the way of come back.

Chuck Stone

cloneslad wrote: »

You don't allow people to provide an answer based on their own experiences. You seem to want these people to go out and carry out research on every dental tourist from Ireland.

Nope. I'm just wondering why sweeping, negative, and as yet unfounded statements about dental tourism are not being challenged.

The people in this forum offer 'their' advice based on 'their' experience and do it for free. They don't need to argue with someone who is unwilling to view the evidence they have provided for them (photos, xrays etc). I'm sure they'd have more fun over in after hours / motors / funny pics and vids and get no hassle, and most likely, more appreciation.

Fair play to them. I'm not here for advice though and this issue is not about me.
Indeed I, like you, appreciate that boards.ie is a fantastic resource and good fun too.

Chuck Stone

cassi wrote: »

Chuck in all fairness, you've been given answers. Maybe not the exact answer you wanted but an answer non the less.

I don't how many people I've talked to who have only ever heard scare stories from Irish dentists when they hint that they might be going abroad for work. Now I thought that it might be just the odd dentist trying to keep the work here but then I see this thread and it seems that this is not an uncommon thing to hear from dental people.

I'm interested in whether there is any actual truth to these claims and as of yet I haven't been presented with anything close!

cloneslad

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Nope. I'm just wondering why sweeping, negative, and as yet unfounded statements about dental tourism are not being challenged.

founded, Holy shítballs founded, I love my pearly whites founded, Colgate white founded

I don't know if you saw these posts. But it looks like evidence, primary evidence at that, to me.

Fair play to them. I'm not here for advice though and this issue is not about me.
Indeed I, like you, appreciate that boards.ie is a fantastic resource and good fun too.

Some forums on Boards are for having a laugh, making stupid comments, doing a bit of trolling etc, but you have to pick your audience, this forum does not need that, it needs people offering their help. This will not happen if they are constantly being underminded and have people arguing with them constantly, especially when the person arguing with them has no evidence of their own.

cassi

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I don't how many people I've talked to who have only ever heard scare stories from Irish dentists when they hint that they might be going abroad for work. Now I thought that it might be just the odd dentist trying to keep the work here but then I see this thread and it seems that this is not an uncommon thing to hear from dental people.

I'm interested in whether there is any actual truth to these claims and as of yet I haven't been presented with anything close!

Search the forum Chuck, read the links Fitz posted and take answers from the dentists here that work on fixing poor dental work everyday! Theres your evidence. You're not hearing all bad stories for nothing!

cloneslad

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm interested in whether there is any actual truth to these claims and as of yet I haven't been presented with anything close!

Check out my post above, there's loads of evidence there for you.

If you are so interested, how about you go out and do your own research, write your own paper on it, and then you can let everyone know just how good or bad it is?

Even if Irish dentists carried out a study on dental tourism, gave emperical evidence which showed a high percentage of people going abroad for rushed dental treatment get bad work, you'd still claim it to be biased as it was carried out by the people in the industry.

Oral Surgeon

Thanks Cloneslad, Cassi and all who have not seen the wounds but still believe....

Doubting Thomas can do what he/ she wants...

This thread is against forum charter rules. It serves no purpose other than providing CS with a forum for Trolling. The OP has not even responded....so this thread is going no-where fast.

A mod might close this one up???

cloneslad

I hope it does get locked. It has turned into a back and forth slinging match. I don't even have anything to do with the dental industry, I just get annoyed by stupid comments and people trying to condemn something they know nothing about.

Chuck Stone

cloneslad wrote: »

Some forums on Boards are for having a laugh, making stupid comments, doing a bit of trolling etc, but you have to pick your audience, this forum does not need that, it needs people offering their help.

This will not happen if they are constantly being underminded and have people arguing with them constantly, especially when the person arguing with them has no evidence of their own.

Those a scary photos and stories but what I'd like to know is how representative are those instances of having work carried out abroad!

I'm not stopping anyone from offering help. I've already said fair play to them. By the looks of it they've presented plenty of horror stories to put people off going abroad and I don't think any questions by me will influence anyone either way.

cassi wrote: »

Search the forum Chuck, read the links Fitz posted and take answers from the dentists here that work on fixing poor dental work everyday! Theres your evidence. You're not hearing all bad stories for nothing!

I've looked at the links and I've even taken a quote from a dental journal that underscores that the experiences of Irish dentists are not representative of the wider efficacy of foreign dental treatment.

I've asked genuine questions and got insults in return!

Nobody learns anything from an echo chamber.

Chuck Stone

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

This thread is against forum charter rules. It serves no purpose other than providing CS with a forum for Trolling. The OP has not even responded....so this thread is going no-where fast.

A mod might close this one up???

Quick.

Silence the dissenter.

How noble. :rolleyes:

cloneslad

If you needed to get 6 implants and could afford to do it in Ireland, would you get it done over the course of 3-4 days?

I didn't think so, so why should people go abroad and get a rushed job to 'save half of what you'd pay in Ireland'?

If you go abroad, get it done right. Do research. Make sure you go for the 7-8 visits needed between initial consulatation and final crown being placed on each implant. Your mouth needs time to recover. I had my impant fitted over a month ago, I'll go back for an x-ray in february to make sure it's sitting well into the gum. I won't get the crown put on until around June. I still feel like the mouth is healing around the implant (I mean internally...the actual wound in the mouth has healed well)

By research, I don't mean 'who is the cheapest' and 'my mate said he's good'. What materials does the dentist use? What system will they use to give you the implant? How long have they been doing this treatment? etc etc

Don't get it done over the course of a week.

These are the type of points that need to be considered, not only abroad, but also in Ireland.

I didn't just jump in at the first dentist to get my impant done. I could have had it done cheaper in Ireland than I did. It took me years, yes years, before I made up my mind and went for it. The wait wasn't financial, I had the money. I just wanted to make sure I was going to get a good job done and that I'd be happy with the outcome.

dlofnep

Was considering getting implants myself when I can afford it. I had a trigger happy dentist a few years back, and removed 4 teeth - when in reality, they could have been treated. I'm unsure whether to get 2 bridges, or 4 implants.

The problem with the bridge is that my back teeth are mostly composite filling, so I'm assuming they would have to be redone if I was to get a bridge? It might work out cheaper to get implants.

Oh well, it will have to wait. Wouldn't be able to afford either for a while.

Chuck Stone

cloneslad wrote: »

If you needed to get 6 implants and could afford to do it in Ireland, would you get it done over the course of 3-4 days?

Probably not no.

I didn't think so, so why should people go abroad and get a rushed job to 'save half of what you'd pay in Ireland'?

Jesus man I'm not advocating that people go abroad for work. :mad:

If you go abroad, get it done right. Do research. Make sure you go for the 7-8 visits needed between initial consulatation and final crown being placed on each implant. Your mouth needs time to recover. I had my impant fitted over a month ago, I'll go back for an x-ray in february to make sure it's sitting well into the gum. I won't get the crown put on until around June. I still feel like the mouth is healing around the implant (I mean internally...the actual wound in the mouth has healed well)

I'm delighted for you (really) hope it works out well. My teeth are fine lol.

By research, I don't mean 'who is the cheapest' and 'my mate said he's good'. What materials does the dentist use? What system will they use to give you the implant? How long have they been doing this treatment? etc etc
Don't get it done over the course of a week.

These are the type of points that need to be considered, not only abroad, but also in Ireland.

I agree Sir.

I didn't just jump in at the first dentist to get my impant done. I could have had it done cheaper in Ireland than I did. It took me years, yes years, before I made up my mind and went for it. The wait wasn't financial, I had the money. I just wanted to make sure I was going to get a good job done and that I'd be happy with the outcome.

Sounds like a good way of going about things - I've no argument with such investigative rigour.

Fair play to you.

cloneslad

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm delighted for you (really) hope it works out well. My teeth are fine lol.

So were mine, but running into the back of someone's head while playing gaelic doesn't be long ruining that for you.

Kids, wear a mouthguard!

Chuck Stone

cloneslad wrote: »

So were mine, but running into the back of someone's head while playing gaelic doesn't be long ruining that for you.

Kids, wear a mouthguard!

I have one small problem.

I have an impacted wisdom tooth that is slightly exposed (lower right jaw). The dentist said it wasn't a problem for the meanwhile but may need to be extracted in the future.

I watched how it was done on youtube and it doesn't look to scary so I'm not too bothered.

Had my other wisdom teeth removed with very little trouble so just that last fecker to come out.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Heli can you lock this derailed thread up please.