It will mean nothing but still....

joe316

Just heard on Morning Ireland that Seanie Fitz has just been arrested, hopefully the cynic in me is wrong and its for something decent and it leads to a decent spell in Wheatfield but have a feeling he'll be tucking into his turkey and ham on the 25th.

orourkeda

joe316 wrote: »

Just heard on Morning Ireland that Seanie Fitz has just been arrested, hopefully the cynic in me is wrong and its for something decent and it leads to a decent spell in Wheatfield but have a feeling he'll be tucking into his turkey and ham on the 25th.

For what crime and based on what evidence

foxyboxer

Artificially inflating Anglo's deposit book for years by borrowing overnight from Irish Nationwide? Cooking the books.

Also this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Irish_Bank_hidden_loans_controversy

joe316

orourkeda wrote: »

For what crime and based on what evidence

As foxyboxer says, cooking the books at Anglo, surely this counts as fraud?

orourkeda

foxyboxer wrote: »

Artificially inflating Anglo's deposit book for years by borrowing overnight from Irish Nationwide? Cooking the books.

Also this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Irish_Bank_hidden_loans_controversy

Have the accountants been arrested too?

What breaches of company law has he been arrested for?

foxyboxer

We'll have to wait and see.

smcgiff

orourkeda wrote: »

For what crime and based on what evidence

Take your Devil's advocate crap elsewhere. This guy has single handedly bankrupted the country.

later12

orourkeda wrote: »

What breaches of company law has he been arrested for?

Obviously nobody knows yet why he has been arrested. But the allegations of fraudulent activity are very clearly in the public domain and despite the ubiquitous complaints of the inefficiency of Irish Company Law (which may be true in some circumstances which may preclude many others in Anglo from facing charges) in fairness there does appear to be extensive legal basis for a possible charge in the FitzPatrick case.

Potential-Monke

orourkeda wrote: »

Have the accountants been arrested too?

What breaches of company law has he been arrested for?

I'm all for fairness in law, etc, but you sound like a Seany Fitz fan... I'm not saying you are, but thats how it's coming across...

Even if he was arrested for something decent which may get him a jail term, he'll be let out on bail until the file is complete and the case is to be heard in about 2 years.

later12

smcgiff wrote: »

This guy has single handedly bankrupted the country.

No he hasn't. He ran a private bank (very private to the point of arrogant exclusivity, in fact). He didn't extend one single liability to the tax payer, and had nothing to gain from Anglo being recapitalised and eventually nationalised.

Read up on it. It's quite interesting.

tfitzgerald

smcgiff wrote: »

Take your Devil's advocate crap elsewhere. This guy has single handedly bankrupted the country.

I agree

orourkeda

smcgiff wrote: »

Take your Devil's advocate crap elsewhere. This guy has single handedly bankrupted the country.

I'm just asking a question. If thats ok with you.

If you think tha Sean Fitzpatrick is the cause of all this nations financial problems then that says more about you than it does about him.

orourkeda

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I agree

So sending Sean Fitpatricks to prison solves our financial problems does it?

It would only be the start.

orourkeda

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'm all for fairness in law, etc, but you sound like a Seany Fitz fan... I'm not saying you are, but thats how it's coming across...

Even if he was arrested for something decent which may get him a jail term, he'll be let out on bail until the file is complete and the case is to be heard in about 2 years.

I just asked what the basis was and never expressed an opinion one way or the other. Just asked on what grounds the arrest was made and on what evidence will the case proceed. Juming to conclusions because I asked a question is a little rash.

The whole legal system debate is a whole different argument

smcgiff

later10 wrote: »

No he hasn't. He ran a private bank (very private to the point of arrogant exclusivity, in fact). He didn't extend one single liability to the tax payer, and had nothing to gain from Anglo being recapitalised and eventually nationalised.

Read up on it. It's quite interesting.

The government of the day didn't guarantee the banks on a whim. It wasn't a case of waking up one morning and deciding it'd be a grand wheeze to guarantee Anglo et al. The government felt they needed to, and we'll never know if they had an alternative.

It's easy for the Monday morning quarter backs to suggest they didn't have to guarantee the banks, but it wasn't a risk they felt they could take. And that's one thing I don't blame the FF government for.

Anglo is by far and away the biggest of the problems and that's almost exclusively Fitzpatrick's fault.

bamboozle

smcgiff wrote: »

Take your Devil's advocate crap elsewhere. This guy has single handedly bankrupted the country.

Ah come on, the inept Michael Neary didnt spend his time so cluelessly as financial regulator to not get any recognition for allowing the banks do whatever they pleased while he played solitaire and slept behind his desk...

listermint

orourkeda wrote: »

I'm just asking a question. If thats ok with you.

If you think tha Sean Fitzpatrick is the cause of all this nations financial problems then that says more about you than it does about him.

In fairness his bank and the culture in which it was ran made a huge impact on the whole shape of the economy, Whats interesting is that he treated the place like his own personal loan account for himself and his cohorts.

The manner in which the bank rose to prominence through rocketing revenues spurned other more sensible lenders to emulate this operation. ( to the detriment of everyone )

There are clear cases for fraud within his history of tenure and I have not idea why you choose to defend these people. He is not a broken ould pensioner in fact is living more comfortably than most of the population of which his decisions have caused such a major impact on our day to day lives.

Where is your invested interested ?

smcgiff

orourkeda wrote: »

So sending Sean Fitpatricks to prison solves our financil problems does it?

It would only be the start.

Why does his arrest need to solve the financial problems? Convicting a murderer doesn't bring back the dead person. It's about justice.

St.Spodo

That cynic in me is telling me it's just to divert our attention and distract us from the budget.

listermint

bamboozle wrote: »

Ah come on, the inept Michael Neary didnt spend his time so cluelessly as financial regulator to not get any recognition for allowing the banks do whatever they pleased while he played solitaire and slept behind his desk...

True, and we should be after him aswell. I dont know why people are choosing favourites ?

These people through there ineptitude destroyed the sector in this country. And all people say is ah sure they didnt know and they were only acting in the guidelines blah blah blah.

When in fact there is fraud riddled all over the place. not just bending the rules. Out and out fraud. And if ordinary joe on the street tried to pull a fast one on a smaller scale like this they would be up in the high court.

orourkeda

later10 wrote: »

Obviously nobody knows yet why he has been arrested. But the allegations of fraudulent activity are very clearly in the public domain and despite the ubiquitous complaints of the inefficiency of Irish Company Law (which may be true in some circumstances which may preclude many others in Anglo from facing charges) in fairness there does appear to be extensive legal basis for a possible charge in the FitzPatrick case.

This goes above and beyond Sean Fitzpatrick. It has to.

smcgiff

bamboozle wrote: »

Ah come on, the inept Michael Neary didnt spend his time so cluelessly as financial regulator to not get any recognition for allowing the banks do whatever they pleased while he played solitaire and slept behind his desk...

He was merely incompetent (I believe) - whereas Fitzpatrick knew he was playing fast and loose (albeit, with the knowledge he was dealing with the likes of Neary).

orourkeda

smcgiff wrote: »

Why does his arrest need to solve the financial problems? Convicting a murderer doesn't bring back the dead person. It's about justice.

It doesnt solve the financial crisis. It didnt cause it on ts own either. It contributed but is more complicated than that.

listermint

St.Spodo wrote: »

That cynic in me is telling me it's just to divert our attention and distract us from the budget.

I wouldnt care either way. Its called justice. There were white collar crimes commited in this country and across the globe over the last 12 years and some people are more than happy to just get on with it. Letting the perpetrators shoot off into the sunset scott free.


A similar process is occuring in the states, Where we had a president elected on the wings of change, He was meant to be the great new hope with bylines of introducing regulation and impacting the bonus culture.

Yet instead he has appointed many of the former masters of destruction to advisory roles and there is less regulation and increased bonuses. I hope he doesnt get re-elected. The same here as we have Enda the spineless and toothless taoiseach doing the same thing.

orourkeda

listermint wrote: »

In fairness his bank and the culture in which it was ran made a huge impact on the whole shape of the economy, Whats interesting is that he treated the place like his own personal loan account for himself and his cohorts.

The manner in which the bank rose to prominence through rocketing revenues spurned other more sensible lenders to emulate this operation. ( to the detriment of everyone )

There are clear cases for fraud within his history of tenure and I have not idea why you choose to defend these people. He is not a broken ould pensioner in fact is living more comfortably than most of the population of which his decisions have caused such a major impact on our day to day lives.

Where is your invested interested ?

Thats the whole point. It was a cultural thing so to speak.

I dont have any more interest than anyone else

listermint

orourkeda wrote: »

Thats the whole point. It was a cultural thing so to speak.

I dont have any more interest than anyone else

Ahh it was cultural oh right so.

You know genocide was cultural during the Balkins conflict dont you??


Your points are getting more hilarious by the minute.

Just because everyone is at it doesnt mean its legal / moral.


Where is the punishment? Tell me that?

orourkeda

smcgiff wrote: »

The government of the day didn't guarantee the banks on a whim. It wasn't a case of waking up one morning and deciding it'd be a grand wheeze to guarantee Anglo et al. The government felt they needed to, and we'll never know if they had an alternative.

It's easy for the Monday morning quarter backs to suggest they didn't have to guarantee the banks, but it wasn't a risk they felt they could take. And that's one thing I don't blame the FF government for.

Anglo is by far and away the biggest of the problems and that's almost exclusively Fitzpatrick's fault.

He's a significant part of it but must have needed a hell of a lot of help on the way

listermint

orourkeda wrote: »

He's a significant part of it but must have needed a hell of a lot of help on the way

Too true, and further arrests should be made, and investigated.

orourkeda

listermint wrote: »

Ahh it was cultural oh right so.

You know genocide was cultural during the Balkins conflict dont you??


Your points are getting more hilarious by the minute.

Just because everyone is at it doesnt mean its legal / moral.


Where is the punishment? Tell me that?

It became banking culture to follow Anglo Irish lead. Thats why AIB etc got into so much trouble through reckless lending etc. Is this wrong and hilarious.? Thats what I meant.

I never said it was legal or moral.

orourkeda

listermint wrote: »

Too true, and further arrests should be made, and investigated.

Of course. It extends far and wide and goes way over Sean Fitzpatricks head.

Patri

orourkeda wrote: »

For what crime and based on what evidence

orourkeda wrote: »

If you think tha Sean Fitzpatrick is the cause of all this nations financial problems then that says more about you than it does about him.

orourkeda wrote: »

So sending Sean Fitpatricks to prison solves our financial problems does it?

It would only be the start.

orourkeda wrote: »

This goes above and beyond Sean Fitzpatrick. It has to.

orourkeda wrote: »

It doesnt solve the financial crisis. It didnt cause it on ts own either. It contributed but is more complicated than that.

You seem quick in your first reply to want grounds for Fitzpatrick's arrest, yet in most of your other replies you never offer any basis for your own comments could you expand on any of these factually?

orourkeda

Patri wrote: »

You seem quick in your first reply to find a grounds for Fitzpatrick's arrest, yet in most of your other replies you never offer any basis for your own comments could you expand on any of these factually?

I dont have any thats why I asked in the first place. I simply asked why he was arrested and on what grounds. Not an unreasonable question and I cant sit here and pretend to know every nook and cranny of this case

Are we to believe that Sean Fitzpatrick set up this whole thing in his own? I doubt it somehow.

Are anglo irish the cause of all this countrys financial problems? I doubt that also

billybudd

He is actually quite a substantial reason for what went wrong equally in banking and the construction factors, taking into account his own 1.1billion liabilities and those major loans he signed of on with unsecured means and with agressive intent to create a false market through the elitist culture of a few then its fair to say he is a man of not a good character with a rouge trading history.

Sadly i hope he is not just the scapegoat and many more are brought to task.

Stiffler2

Seanie Fitz should be hung, drawn & quartered IMHO

Realistically though he should have everything he owns taken off him to sell to make money towards the debt he owes.

I would personally love to see him down in the homeless shelter queueing up for his evening meal. He really shouldn't have a cent to his name


but No, he moved his monies into his wife's account.
complete BS, raid the wife's account as well then ?

listermint

orourkeda wrote: »

I dont have any thats why I asked in the first place. I simply asked why he was arrested and on what grounds. Not an unreasonable question and I cant sit here and pretend to know every nook and cranny of this case

Are we to believe that Sean Fitzpatrick set up this whole thing in his own? I doubt it somehow.

Are anglo irish the cause of all this countrys financial problems? I doubt that also

Who is saying this?

But you still havent laid out your stall yet. There being sufficient evidence of all / most of the fraudulent activities which i have zero doubt there is. The books are wide and vast. Should he be arrested and imprisoned?

You dont seem to have mentioned what you believe should happen and are merely reflecting his activities onto a wider circle. (of which i agrees should all be brought to task)

orourkeda

billybudd wrote: »

He is actually quite a substantial reason for what went wrong equally in banking and the construction factors, taking into account his own 1.1billion liabilities and those major loans he signed of on with unsecured means and with agressive intent to create a false market through the elitist culture of a few then its fair to say he is a man of not a good character with a rouge trading history.

Sadly i hope he is not just the scapegoat and many more are brought to task.

A substantial reason but not the sole reason

orourkeda

listermint wrote: »

Who is saying this?

But you still havent laid out your stall yet. There being sufficient evidence of all / most of the fraudulent activities which i have zero doubt there is. The books are wide and vast. Should he be arrested and imprisoned?

You dont seem to have mentioned what you believe should happen and are merely reflecting his activities onto a wider circle. (of which i agrees should all be brought to task)

I never said he shouldn't be arrested. I have never said that at any point.

If the evidence is there then fine. I just asked why he was arrested and what it was based on.

Surely the case should proceed on the strength of the case that has been built. I'd have thought that much was obvious.

I very much doubt that Sean Fitzpatrick is the only person involved in all of this that has a case to answer here. Again I'd have thought that this was evident

billybudd

orourkeda wrote: »

A substantial reason but not the sole reason

Yes i know, which is why i stated that, i also said i hope he is not the scapegoat and others are brought to justice, td's, civil servants, other bankers etc.

later12

smcgiff wrote: »

The government of the day didn't guarantee the banks on a whim.

How do you know this? By some accounts, it was quite a rapid and uninformed decision.

The government felt they needed to, and we'll never know if they had an alternative.

Anglo is by far and away the biggest of the problems and that's almost exclusively Fitzpatrick's fault.

So let me get this straight.

You're saying that we don't know if a guarantee was necessary, whilst simultaneously saying that it was all FitzPatrick's fault that Anglo was guaranteed - even if there's a chance the blanket guarantee was un-necessary.

You're beating up your own argument.

orourkeda

billybudd wrote: »

Yes i know, which is why i stated that, i also said i hope he is not the scapegoat and others are brought to justice, td's, civil servants, other bankers etc.

This extends far and wide I thinks its clear to say and this is the tip of the iceberg.

Whether or not its backed up by arrests, charges or prosecutions is another matter entirely

billybudd

orourkeda wrote: »

This extends far and wide I thinks its clear to say and this is the tip of the iceberg.

Whether or not its backed up by arrests, charges or prosecutions is another matter entirely

I agree, i sometimes think the majority of people would just be happy with a few bankers like seanie boy been thrown into jail and then we can get on with, but this whole crisis was created by more than just the banking sector and everyone who was involved with corruption should be brought to task or the circle will never be broke.

Doc Ruby

Here's how the guards normally handle arrests:

They don't call to your door and politely wait for you to finish your alpen and coffee.

They arrive at 4am batter on the door and haul you down to the station in your pyjamas.

Small comfort I suppose, but it put a big oul smile on my face when I imagined Seanie getting his wakeup call this morning.

UglyBolloxFace

Hold on...I just heard on the news that he was 'arrested by appointment'. This is disgusting - if anyone else were to be arrested, the Guards would kick down their door and take them in. Why is he allowed this leeway?

And please, stop calling him "Seany Fitz", as if you're giving him some sort of fame and celebrity - the man deserves no such thing; he's a vile creature.

Gmol

Can we not get him on treason as based on his actions among other people, we have been forced to hand over economic control to another entity

Doc Ruby

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

Hold on...I just heard on the news that he was 'arrested by appointment'. This is disgusting - if anyone else were to be arrested, the Guards would kick down their door and take them in. Why is he allowed this leeway?

They pulled him in at 8am apparently. Ah well.

steddyeddy

orourkeda wrote: »

For what crime and based on what evidence

Insider trading is what I would be looking for.

orourkeda

steddyeddy wrote: »

Insider trading is what I would be looking for.

Thats another scenario thats likely to stretch far and wide

ilovesleep

Seanie released today. File being sent to the DPP. Will anything come of it? Will he be charged?

http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/177501-seanie-released-file-being-prepared-director-public-prosecutions.html

There are so much more people involved in the pyramid property scheme and not just Fitzpatrick eg. the ex financial regulator for one. Bertie Ahern
Why aren't they up for negligance?