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It will mean nothing but still....

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  • 09-12-2011 9:51am
    #1
    joe316
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭


    Just heard on Morning Ireland that Seanie Fitz has just been arrested, hopefully the cynic in me is wrong and its for something decent and it leads to a decent spell in Wheatfield but have a feeling he'll be tucking into his turkey and ham on the 25th.


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    #2
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    joe316 wrote: »
    Just heard on Morning Ireland that Seanie Fitz has just been arrested, hopefully the cynic in me is wrong and its for something decent and it leads to a decent spell in Wheatfield but have a feeling he'll be tucking into his turkey and ham on the 25th.

    For what crime and based on what evidence


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    #3
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    Artificially inflating Anglo's deposit book for years by borrowing overnight from Irish Nationwide? Cooking the books.

    Also this

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Irish_Bank_hidden_loans_controversy


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    #4
    joe316
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭joe316


    orourkeda wrote: »
    For what crime and based on what evidence

    As foxyboxer says, cooking the books at Anglo, surely this counts as fraud?


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    #5
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    foxyboxer wrote: »
    Artificially inflating Anglo's deposit book for years by borrowing overnight from Irish Nationwide? Cooking the books.

    Also this

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Irish_Bank_hidden_loans_controversy

    Have the accountants been arrested too?

    What breaches of company law has he been arrested for?


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    #6
    foxyboxer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    We'll have to wait and see.


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    #7
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    orourkeda wrote: »
    For what crime and based on what evidence

    Take your Devil's advocate crap elsewhere. This guy has single handedly bankrupted the country.


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    #8
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    orourkeda wrote: »
    What breaches of company law has he been arrested for?

    Obviously nobody knows yet why he has been arrested. But the allegations of fraudulent activity are very clearly in the public domain and despite the ubiquitous complaints of the inefficiency of Irish Company Law (which may be true in some circumstances which may preclude many others in Anglo from facing charges) in fairness there does appear to be extensive legal basis for a possible charge in the FitzPatrick case.


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    #9
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,914 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Have the accountants been arrested too?

    What breaches of company law has he been arrested for?

    I'm all for fairness in law, etc, but you sound like a Seany Fitz fan... I'm not saying you are, but thats how it's coming across...

    Even if he was arrested for something decent which may get him a jail term, he'll be let out on bail until the file is complete and the case is to be heard in about 2 years.


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    #10
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    smcgiff wrote: »
    This guy has single handedly bankrupted the country.

    No he hasn't. He ran a private bank (very private to the point of arrogant exclusivity, in fact). He didn't extend one single liability to the tax payer, and had nothing to gain from Anglo being recapitalised and eventually nationalised.

    Read up on it. It's quite interesting.


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    #11
    tfitzgerald
    Registered Users Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭tfitzgerald


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Take your Devil's advocate crap elsewhere. This guy has single handedly bankrupted the country.

    I agree


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    #12
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Take your Devil's advocate crap elsewhere. This guy has single handedly bankrupted the country.

    I'm just asking a question. If thats ok with you.

    If you think tha Sean Fitzpatrick is the cause of all this nations financial problems then that says more about you than it does about him.


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    #13
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    tfitzgerald wrote: »
    I agree

    So sending Sean Fitpatricks to prison solves our financial problems does it?

    It would only be the start.


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    #14
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    I'm all for fairness in law, etc, but you sound like a Seany Fitz fan... I'm not saying you are, but thats how it's coming across...

    Even if he was arrested for something decent which may get him a jail term, he'll be let out on bail until the file is complete and the case is to be heard in about 2 years.

    I just asked what the basis was and never expressed an opinion one way or the other. Just asked on what grounds the arrest was made and on what evidence will the case proceed. Juming to conclusions because I asked a question is a little rash.

    The whole legal system debate is a whole different argument


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    #15
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    later10 wrote: »
    No he hasn't. He ran a private bank (very private to the point of arrogant exclusivity, in fact). He didn't extend one single liability to the tax payer, and had nothing to gain from Anglo being recapitalised and eventually nationalised.

    Read up on it. It's quite interesting.

    The government of the day didn't guarantee the banks on a whim. It wasn't a case of waking up one morning and deciding it'd be a grand wheeze to guarantee Anglo et al. The government felt they needed to, and we'll never know if they had an alternative.

    It's easy for the Monday morning quarter backs to suggest they didn't have to guarantee the banks, but it wasn't a risk they felt they could take. And that's one thing I don't blame the FF government for.

    Anglo is by far and away the biggest of the problems and that's almost exclusively Fitzpatrick's fault.


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    #16
    bamboozle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Take your Devil's advocate crap elsewhere. This guy has single handedly bankrupted the country.

    Ah come on, the inept Michael Neary didnt spend his time so cluelessly as financial regulator to not get any recognition for allowing the banks do whatever they pleased while he played solitaire and slept behind his desk...


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    #17
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,856 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    orourkeda wrote: »
    I'm just asking a question. If thats ok with you.

    If you think tha Sean Fitzpatrick is the cause of all this nations financial problems then that says more about you than it does about him.

    In fairness his bank and the culture in which it was ran made a huge impact on the whole shape of the economy, Whats interesting is that he treated the place like his own personal loan account for himself and his cohorts.

    The manner in which the bank rose to prominence through rocketing revenues spurned other more sensible lenders to emulate this operation. ( to the detriment of everyone )

    There are clear cases for fraud within his history of tenure and I have not idea why you choose to defend these people. He is not a broken ould pensioner in fact is living more comfortably than most of the population of which his decisions have caused such a major impact on our day to day lives.

    Where is your invested interested ?


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    #18
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    orourkeda wrote: »
    So sending Sean Fitpatricks to prison solves our financil problems does it?

    It would only be the start.

    Why does his arrest need to solve the financial problems? Convicting a murderer doesn't bring back the dead person. It's about justice.


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    #19
    St.Spodo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭St.Spodo


    That cynic in me is telling me it's just to divert our attention and distract us from the budget.


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    #20
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,856 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    bamboozle wrote: »
    Ah come on, the inept Michael Neary didnt spend his time so cluelessly as financial regulator to not get any recognition for allowing the banks do whatever they pleased while he played solitaire and slept behind his desk...

    True, and we should be after him aswell. I dont know why people are choosing favourites ?

    These people through there ineptitude destroyed the sector in this country. And all people say is ah sure they didnt know and they were only acting in the guidelines blah blah blah.

    When in fact there is fraud riddled all over the place. not just bending the rules. Out and out fraud. And if ordinary joe on the street tried to pull a fast one on a smaller scale like this they would be up in the high court.


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    #21
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    later10 wrote: »
    Obviously nobody knows yet why he has been arrested. But the allegations of fraudulent activity are very clearly in the public domain and despite the ubiquitous complaints of the inefficiency of Irish Company Law (which may be true in some circumstances which may preclude many others in Anglo from facing charges) in fairness there does appear to be extensive legal basis for a possible charge in the FitzPatrick case.

    This goes above and beyond Sean Fitzpatrick. It has to.


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    #22
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    bamboozle wrote: »
    Ah come on, the inept Michael Neary didnt spend his time so cluelessly as financial regulator to not get any recognition for allowing the banks do whatever they pleased while he played solitaire and slept behind his desk...

    He was merely incompetent (I believe) - whereas Fitzpatrick knew he was playing fast and loose (albeit, with the knowledge he was dealing with the likes of Neary).


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    #23
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Why does his arrest need to solve the financial problems? Convicting a murderer doesn't bring back the dead person. It's about justice.

    It doesnt solve the financial crisis. It didnt cause it on ts own either. It contributed but is more complicated than that.


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    #24
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,856 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    St.Spodo wrote: »
    That cynic in me is telling me it's just to divert our attention and distract us from the budget.

    I wouldnt care either way. Its called justice. There were white collar crimes commited in this country and across the globe over the last 12 years and some people are more than happy to just get on with it. Letting the perpetrators shoot off into the sunset scott free.


    A similar process is occuring in the states, Where we had a president elected on the wings of change, He was meant to be the great new hope with bylines of introducing regulation and impacting the bonus culture.

    Yet instead he has appointed many of the former masters of destruction to advisory roles and there is less regulation and increased bonuses. I hope he doesnt get re-elected. The same here as we have Enda the spineless and toothless taoiseach doing the same thing.


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    #25
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    listermint wrote: »
    In fairness his bank and the culture in which it was ran made a huge impact on the whole shape of the economy, Whats interesting is that he treated the place like his own personal loan account for himself and his cohorts.

    The manner in which the bank rose to prominence through rocketing revenues spurned other more sensible lenders to emulate this operation. ( to the detriment of everyone )

    There are clear cases for fraud within his history of tenure and I have not idea why you choose to defend these people. He is not a broken ould pensioner in fact is living more comfortably than most of the population of which his decisions have caused such a major impact on our day to day lives.

    Where is your invested interested ?

    Thats the whole point. It was a cultural thing so to speak.

    I dont have any more interest than anyone else


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    #26
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,856 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Thats the whole point. It was a cultural thing so to speak.

    I dont have any more interest than anyone else

    Ahh it was cultural oh right so.

    You know genocide was cultural during the Balkins conflict dont you??


    Your points are getting more hilarious by the minute.

    Just because everyone is at it doesnt mean its legal / moral.


    Where is the punishment? Tell me that?


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    #27
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    smcgiff wrote: »
    The government of the day didn't guarantee the banks on a whim. It wasn't a case of waking up one morning and deciding it'd be a grand wheeze to guarantee Anglo et al. The government felt they needed to, and we'll never know if they had an alternative.

    It's easy for the Monday morning quarter backs to suggest they didn't have to guarantee the banks, but it wasn't a risk they felt they could take. And that's one thing I don't blame the FF government for.

    Anglo is by far and away the biggest of the problems and that's almost exclusively Fitzpatrick's fault.

    He's a significant part of it but must have needed a hell of a lot of help on the way


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    #28
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,856 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    orourkeda wrote: »
    He's a significant part of it but must have needed a hell of a lot of help on the way

    Too true, and further arrests should be made, and investigated.


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    #29
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    listermint wrote: »
    Ahh it was cultural oh right so.

    You know genocide was cultural during the Balkins conflict dont you??


    Your points are getting more hilarious by the minute.

    Just because everyone is at it doesnt mean its legal / moral.


    Where is the punishment? Tell me that?

    It became banking culture to follow Anglo Irish lead. Thats why AIB etc got into so much trouble through reckless lending etc. Is this wrong and hilarious.? Thats what I meant.

    I never said it was legal or moral.


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    #30
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    listermint wrote: »
    Too true, and further arrests should be made, and investigated.

    Of course. It extends far and wide and goes way over Sean Fitzpatricks head.


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    #31
    Patri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 330 ✭✭Patri


    orourkeda wrote: »
    For what crime and based on what evidence
    orourkeda wrote: »
    If you think tha Sean Fitzpatrick is the cause of all this nations financial problems then that says more about you than it does about him.
    orourkeda wrote: »
    So sending Sean Fitpatricks to prison solves our financial problems does it?

    It would only be the start.
    orourkeda wrote: »
    This goes above and beyond Sean Fitzpatrick. It has to.
    orourkeda wrote: »
    It doesnt solve the financial crisis. It didnt cause it on ts own either. It contributed but is more complicated than that.


    You seem quick in your first reply to want grounds for Fitzpatrick's arrest, yet in most of your other replies you never offer any basis for your own comments could you expand on any of these factually?


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