Was the Republican campaign justifiable?

Sunnyisland · 18-12-2011 11:04pm

KeithAFC wrote: »

One key point you are missing. Martin Mcguinness is working for the good of Northern Ireland. Not the Irish Republic. Martin Mcguinness is working for a country in the UK. Martin Mcguinness is contributing in getting jobs to Northern Ireland. So in that respect, he can keep on doing his job.

A lot of Republicans make this point a lot. Martin Mcguinness is just working for a British pay cheque.

One point your forgetting is MMG & SF are working for the better of all Ireland and if you want to think that they are working for british pay cheques ,well go ahead. Now keith I asked you could you or others twenty years ago have seen SF in a power sharing government running from storment ? 20 years from now who knows, Personally i just hope the bombs and bullets are still stopped.
Goodnight

Chuck Stone · 18-12-2011 11:05pm

A surrender happens when one side capitulates after suffering a defeat. I don't remember the IRA capitulating. What happened was a stalemate.

The BA couldn't defeat the IRA and vice versa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRJGfe0k7rI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHKFzPmDjAo&feature=related

Liam Byrne · 18-12-2011 11:32pm

The Westerner wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Consequences, eh ?

Guess that's as good a term as any for the fact that right-minded people hate those who murder innocents.

Nice demonstration of that continuing disconnect Liam.

In Post #451 you said that:

Where did I even suggest that I objected to "taking on" or "fighting back" ?

The problem with trying to match this statement with your opinion is that unless you could fight the "planned perfect war" (i.e. little or no civilans killed waging it) you'd end up doing nothing if you couldn't fight such a war.

As a probable consequence, taking WWII as an example again, the Nazi gas chambers would have ended up finishing their dirty work. More innocent civilians would have probably ended up dying than actually happened. When applied to enough historical examples in reality, isolationist opinions such as yours can end up leading to worse outcomes than desired.

For those murdered ? I doubt it. Unless you have a similar view to that of other murdering terrorists?

Nodin · 18-12-2011 11:34pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

For those murdered ? I doubt it. Unless you have a similar view to that of other murdering terrorists?

Evading the point with the usual emotional jibe Liam? Trying answering the mans argument, for once.

michael999999 · 18-12-2011 11:37pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

A surrender happens when one side capitulates after suffering a defeat. I don't remember the IRA capitulating. What happened was a stalemate.

The BA couldn't defeat the IRA and vice versa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRJGfe0k7rI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHKFzPmDjAo&feature=related

Ah but the keyboard warriors on PULSE have all the muppets that follow follow believing otherwise!

trendyvicar · 18-12-2011 11:41pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

A surrender happens when one side capitulates after suffering a defeat. I don't remember the IRA capitulating. What happened was a stalemate.

The BA couldn't defeat the IRA and vice versa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRJGfe0k7rI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHKFzPmDjAo&feature=related

You actually believe that sh*t do you? Where's PIRA now? What's that border drawn on the map of Ireland?

I mean, you do actually know what PIRA were fighting for don't you?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Chuck Stone · 18-12-2011 11:51pm

trendyvicar wrote: »

What's that border drawn on the map of Ireland?

I've traveled back and forth across that border countless times and you know what? I never seen that line drawn across the land.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wow! Three roll eyes smileys!

You must be really annoyed.

Chuck Stone · 18-12-2011 11:54pm

michael999999 wrote: »

Ah but the keyboard warriors on PULSE have all the muppets that follow follow believing otherwise!

Thankfully I haven't wasted one second of my life on that website and have no interest in doing so in the future.

If I want a dose of fantasy I can watch Harry Potter on DVD.

Liam Byrne · 18-12-2011 11:57pm

Evading the point with the usual emotional jibe Liam? Trying answering the mans argument, for once.

Since when is murder mere "emotional jibe" ? Jesus H!! Those were real people that the IRA blew to bits, you know - not a video game!

As for engaging in an argument on this topic with CS - that boat sailed in the post where he tried to pretend that an organisation that murdered way more people wasn't as bad as the other equally-despicable-but-sless-culpable shower of murdering thugs.

Sunnyisland · 19-12-2011 12:03am

trendy vicar wrote: »

You actually believe that sh*t do you? Where's PIRA now? What's that border drawn on the map of Ireland?

I mean, you do actually know what PIRA were fighting for don't you?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sitting in government and making decisions on the future of NI. Dont you read any of the posts here :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

KeithAFC · 19-12-2011 12:05am

Chuck Stone wrote: »

A surrender happens when one side capitulates after suffering a defeat. I don't remember the IRA capitulating. What happened was a stalemate.

The BA couldn't defeat the IRA and vice versa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRJGfe0k7rI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHKFzPmDjAo&feature=related

The PIRA did capitulate. The PIRA was riddled with informers. British agents buying PIRA men houses and so on. The PIRA was coming to an end. That is why Sinn Fein decided to go to the negotiating table.

It was a surrender.

Nodin · 19-12-2011 12:06am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Since when is murder mere "emotional jibe" ? Jesus H!! Those were real people that the IRA blew to bits, you know - not a video game!

As for engaging in an argument on this topic with CS - that boat sailed in the post where he tried to pretend that an organisation that murdered way more people wasn't as bad as the other equally-despicable-but-sless-culpable shower of murdering thugs.

Dear Christ......if running away from a point and attempted emotional blackmail were olympic events you'd have broken the 9 second barrier.

Here, we'll go again

The Westerner wrote:

The problem with trying to match this statement with your opinion is that unless you could fight the "planned perfect war" (i.e. little or no civilans killed waging it) you'd end up doing nothing if you couldn't fight such a war.

Try addressing the above. Do please attempt to leave the "O Noes" stuff out.

K-9 · 19-12-2011 12:10am

KeithAFC wrote: »

But it was a defeat. That is exactly what it was. The whole goal was to get a United Ireland and bomb the country into Smithereens. The fact that after 30+ years of fighting for them, the best they could do was having to work at Stormont for a country in the UK is actually rather pathetic. Hunger strikers, blanketmen and so on and that is the best they can do.

Well its better than the alternative Keith or maybe you'd prefer they still bombed?

We'd basically 10-15 years of a stalemate after the hunger strikes, neither side was going to win or lose.

KeithAFC · 19-12-2011 12:16am

K-9 wrote: »

Well its better than the alternative Keith or maybe you'd prefer they still bombed?

We'd basically 10-15 years of a stalemate after the hunger strikes, neither side was going to win or lose.

There was two objectives.

1) - Get a United Ireland by force
2) - Defend the Union

Number 2 won and number 1 failed.

Chuck Stone · 19-12-2011 12:17am

KeithAFC wrote: »

Herp de derp

You're outside the spectrum of people I'm interested in discussing these matters with.

Stop trying to get my attention.

You're embarrassing yourself.

michael999999 · 19-12-2011 12:18am

K-9 wrote: »

Well its better than the alternative Keith or maybe you'd prefer they still bombed?

We'd basically 10-15 years of a stalemate after the hunger strikes, neither side was going to win or lose.

Dont worry about keith, he would be hiding under hes bed with hes keyboard and the rest of pulse if there was still trouble!

Easy be tough when everything is finished!

Oh by the way is the leader of the loyalists still hiding in Scotland with hes alsations?

Liam Byrne · 19-12-2011 12:19am

Try addressing the above. Do please attempt to leave the "O Noes" stuff out.

What is there to address? The post implies that there's no grey area between "doing nothing" and "deliberately murdering civilians", which is so much rubbish that it wasn't worth responding to.

R P McMurphy · 19-12-2011 12:20am

michael999999 wrote: »

Dont worry about keith, he would be hiding under hes bed with hes keyboard and the rest of pulse if there was still trouble!

Easy be tough when everything is finished!

Oh by the way is the leader of the loyalists still hiding in Scotland with hes alsations?

His dogs were taken from him

michael999999 · 19-12-2011 12:22am

R P McMurphy wrote: »

His dogs were taken from him

I think he had them stuffed!

KeithAFC · 19-12-2011 12:25am

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You're outside the spectrum of people I'm interested in discussing these matters with.

Stop trying to get my attention.

You're embarrassing yourself.

You are embarrassing yourself by trying to put Republican propaganda across as fact as if the PIRA actually got what they wanted and that the "Brits" are evil. Its utter tosh and no one is fooling for it. Give up the ghost.

Nodin · 19-12-2011 12:26am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What is there to address? The post implies that there's no grey area between "doing nothing" and "deliberately murdering civilians", which is so much rubbish that it wasn't worth responding to.

Would you care to spell out precisely what you deem acceptable, and how it was applied in an actual conflict?

R P McMurphy · 19-12-2011 12:26am

michael999999 wrote: »

I think he had them stuffed!

I thought he actually had them taken (stolen) from him and was then continuously taunted about it. As a dog owner, I can thave empathy with the braindead goon on this point

K-9 · 19-12-2011 12:28am

KeithAFC wrote: »

There was two objectives.

1) - Get a United Ireland by force
2) - Defend the Union

Number 2 won and number 1 failed.

Northern Ireland is now subject to self determination Keith, that's a big advance.

The Westerner · 19-12-2011 12:31am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What is there to address? The post implies that there's no grey area between "doing nothing" and "deliberately murdering civilians", which is so much rubbish that it wasn't worth responding to.

Nonsense. I implied no such thing. It says that you would do nothing unless you wanted to fight a perfect war. Is there a grey area now then Liam?

michael999999 · 19-12-2011 12:32am

R P McMurphy wrote: »

I thought he actually had them taken (stolen) from him and was then continuously taunted about it. As a dog owner, I can thave empathy with the braindead goon on this point

Didnt hes comrades cut there throats when he went on the run and left them behind!

KeithAFC · 19-12-2011 12:32am

K-9 wrote: »

Northern Ireland is now subject to self determination Keith, that's a big advance.

Indeed it does and that is a huge plus for Unionism as we now have a chance to put our point of view across and take Republicanism on.

Chuck Stone · 19-12-2011 12:36am

Thread is a bit of a joke now imo.

I'm out.

Thanks for the debate folks.

Liam Byrne · 19-12-2011 12:45am

The Westerner wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What is there to address? The post implies that there's no grey area between "doing nothing" and "deliberately murdering civilians", which is so much rubbish that it wasn't worth responding to.

Nonsense. I implied no such thing. It says that you would do nothing unless you wanted to fight a perfect war. Is there a grey area now then Liam?

Discussion, negotiation, protests or - if it came to it and you view it as acceptable - actual "fighting back"

Lots of options in between "doing nothing" and murdering innocents.

trendyvicar · 19-12-2011 12:59am

realies wrote: »

Sitting in government and making decisions on the future of NI. Dont you read any of the posts here :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Pearse must be spinning in his grave...

The Westerner · 19-12-2011 1:03am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Discussion, negotiation, protests or - if it came to it and you view it as acceptable - actual "fighting back"

Lots of options in between "doing nothing" and murdering innocents.

Liam, you well know that wasn't what i was really on about.

My point still stands. I'd believe you'd do nothing if you couldn't fight that perfect war after said discussions, negotiations and protests were no longer an option.

Was the Republican campaign justifiable?

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