Issues at school

Ghostx

This might sound like a stupid question, but I'm doubting that what this teacher is doing is legal.

So, I was in class yesterday and somebodies phone made a beeping noise. The teacher asked who it was, and nobody owned up. So, he gave everyone a detention after school yesterday.

The teacher turned this into a really big deal now, and gave another detention today, and is continuing to give detentions every day until the person owns up. At this stage, the person definitely won't own up, because
1) He'll get in a load of trouble with the teacher
2) The rest of the class will hate him for not owning up at the start

My question is, is this even legal? For a teacher to detain a whole class, every single day because of the action of 1 student?

I know most of you will probably think this is a stupid question, but I'd rather not be in school for an hour longer each day, staring at a wall because of what somebody else done.

Kosseegan

Of course it's illegal. Go to a solicitor immediately and bring an action for false imprisonment.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Its a school they can't force you to stay. If you want to go to school there than you have to play by their rules. Get notes from parents or bring it up with your principle I would wager that at least a quarter of the class knows exactly whose phone made the noise so don't pretend its what one person did.

Delancey

Kosseegan wrote: »

Of course it's illegal. Go to a solicitor immediately and bring an action for false imprisonment.

Better still , get a Hostage Negotiator

BrianD

Fair play! It's called discipline. However, the repeated detention will probably be counter productive for everybody.

I'm surprised that somebody hasn't dobbed in the offender. After all, what's the worst that can happen? He gets the detention instead of all of you?

vamos!

Ring Joe from detention... be sure to whisper

byhookorbycrook

"somebody,"eh?:D

Ms Minnie Mouse

The people sitting either side of the eejit who didn't have his phone on silent, together with the people both in front and behind of him know who it was...

...back in my day it was when the carrier pigeons kept flying in with notes. My personal opinion is that mobiles should be banned from classrooms anyway, complete lack of respect for the teacher and other students who might want to learn what they're being taught. Especially English, sick of seeing letters and emails written in text speak. u no wot i meen m8?

Seriously, for hundreds of years children managed to be educated without mobile phones, having one in class is hardly a necessity, is it?

Bring an action. Just make sure the phone doesn't ring in the court - detention would be the least of your worries!

Ghostx

Ghostx wrote: »

This might sound like a stupid question, but I'm doubting that what this teacher is doing is legal.

So, I was in class yesterday and somebodies phone made a beeping noise. The teacher asked who it was, and nobody owned up. So, he gave everyone a detention after school yesterday.

The teacher turned this into a really big deal now, and gave another detention today, and is continuing to give detentions every day until the person owns up. At this stage, the person definitely won't own up, because
1) He'll get in a load of trouble with the teacher
2) The rest of the class will hate him for not owning up at the start

My question is, is this even legal? For a teacher to detain a whole class, every single day because of the action of 1 student?

I know most of you will probably think this is a stupid question, but I'd rather not be in school for an hour longer each day, staring at a wall because of what somebody else done.

This is why President McAleese suggested legal education in secondary schools. Don't bring phones into class, do what the teacher tells you and stop looking for ways out other than doing what you're supposed to do.

Milk & Honey

None of these rants are any excuse for this teacher's behaviour. Can the guards arrest everyone in a housing estate on the basis that one of them must have done something?
Teachers who carry on like that are a disgrace and should be sacked.

Ms Minnie Mouse

Ah, but the police can arrest and question several people whilst investigating a crime and subsequently release them without charge.

Seems like some of the pupils don't have a respect for authority - so maybe he's relying on peer-pressure to weed out the culprit! We also don't know how old these pupils are...

byhookorbycrook

Milk & Honey wrote: »

None of these rants are any excuse for this teacher's behaviour. Can the guards arrest everyone in a housing estate on the basis that one of them must have done something?
Teachers who carry on like that are a disgrace and should be sacked.

Really?Without knowing what the school policy is ?Without looking at their code of behaviour?Have you ever tried to teach 25 teenagers?

MagicSean

Milk & Honey wrote: »

None of these rants are any excuse for this teacher's behaviour. Can the guards arrest everyone in a housing estate on the basis that one of them must have done something?
Teachers who carry on like that are a disgrace and should be sacked.

I disagree. If there had been a murder in the classroom each pupil could be charged with withholding information.

meoklmrk91

Believe me they can do pretty much whatever they want with you while you are on school grounds apart from lay their hands on you.

In my school the principal found out that some of the students were smoking weed while on lunch. We were locked into the school and if we walked out the doors during school hours we were suspended. This would never have worked in a large school but it worked in ours, just about, it was mayhem.

tricky D

Ghostx wrote: »

This might sound like a stupid question, but I'm doubting that what this teacher is doing is legal.

My question is, is this even legal?

You are entitled to bring the Gardaí/solicitors into the matter if you like.

Similarly, the school are entitled to ask pupils to seek education elsewhere if they or their parents undermine discipline.

Milk & Honey

MagicSean wrote: »

I disagree. If there had been a murder in the classroom each pupil could be charged with withholding information.

If there was a murder it may well be the case that not all of the pupils would have information. If it happened at the back, the pupils in the front seats would not be able to see it. They would have no information to give. Charges of withholding information should only be made against individuals who actually have information. Innocent individuals cannot be detained until the guilty confess.

Ghostx

Milk & Honey wrote: »

If there was a murder it may well be the case that not all of the pupils would have information. If it happened at the back, the pupils in the front seats would not be able to see it. They would have no information to give. Charges of withholding information should only be made against individuals who actually have information. Innocent individuals cannot be detained until the guilty confess.

We all agreed that the sound came from the back left hand side of the class, and even the teacher agrees that he heard it from that area. I'm sitting at the front right hand side, yet I'm still getting punished.

stoneill

Detention is valid form of discipline.
If the rest of the class are too stupid to point out who it was then they deserve what they get.

Ghostx

stoneill wrote: »

Detention is valid form of discipline.
If the rest of the class are too stupid to point out who it was then they deserve what they get.

Nobody actually know's who it was. If somebody knew, they would have ratted the person out already.

Ms Minnie Mouse

Can't you all work it out? Unless there are some hearing issues, people should be able to determine whether the noise came from in front, behind, left or right? Just remember. One person might be lying...so best form a view on the majority!

Ghostx

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

Can't you all work it out? Unless there are some hearing issues, people should be able to determine whether the noise came from in front, behind, left or right? Just remember. One person might be lying...so best form a view on the majority!

We know that it came one area. Even the teacher heard it from that area, but now the people sitting there are just shifting the blame to the other side of the class.

Tayla

When I was in school I refused to participate in role play in CSPE, I was suffering from social anxiety at the time, the teacher said if I didn't then she would force the whole class to do detention.

I said I was going down to speak to my year head about it (which I did) and the teacher backed off.

Do you have a year head for your year? Could you speak to him/her and see if they would reason with the teacher on your behalf?

If that doesn't work then I would suggest you get a parent to phone up the principal. I don't think it's fair for a teacher to do that.

So what if some people know who did it, maybe that person is shy or would feel imtimidated into not telling the teacher. Are students allowed to be treated unfairly because they don't want to tell on another student?

Ghostx

Tayla wrote: »

When I was in school I refused to participate in role play in CSPE, I was suffering from social anxiety at the time, the teacher said if I didn't then she would force the whole class to do detention.

I said I was going down to speak to my year head about it (which I did) and the teacher backed off.

Do you have a year head for your year? Could you speak to him/her and see if they would reason with the teacher on your behalf?

If that doesn't work then I would suggest you get a parent to phone up the principal. I don't think it's fair for a teacher to do that.

So what if some people know who did it, maybe that person is shy or would feel imtimidated into not telling the teacher. Are students allowed to be treated unfairly because they don't want to tell on another student?

The year heads are backing the teacher, and as far as I know so is the principle People genuinely don't know who's phone it was, because if they did they would have told on him by now to end all this. People have ideas of who it could be, but you can't just blame someone because you thought it was them.
My parents are going into the principle on Monday, and if that fails they're going to contact the board of education because of the fact that the teacher plans to continue this punishment for EVERYONE in the class until the person owns up.

byhookorbycrook

Ghostx wrote: »

The year heads are backing the teacher, and as far as I know so is the principle People genuinely don't know who's phone it was, because if they did they would have told on him by now to end all this. People have ideas of who it could be, but you can't just blame someone because you thought it was them.
My parents are going into the principle on Monday, and if that fails they're going to contact the board of education because of the fact that the teacher plans to continue this punishment for EVERYONE in the class until the person owns up.

Who do you mean by "The Board of Education?" Do you mean the DES or the school's Borad of Management?Either way if detention is listed in the school discipline policy, which you and your parents have accepted, you do not have a leg to stand on,legally.

Tayla

Ghostx wrote: »

People genuinely don't know who's phone it was, because if they did they would have told on him by now to end all this. People have ideas of who it could be, but you can't just blame someone because you thought it was them.

And also just because someone does know doesn't mean that they should have to tell the teacher to get out of detention, they did nothing wrong and may worry that someone might find out that they were the ones who told.

Ghostx wrote: »

My parents are going into the principle on Monday, and if that fails they're going to contact the board of education because of the fact that the teacher plans to continue this punishment for EVERYONE in the class until the person owns up.

It's great that your parents are going in to the school, If that wasn't satisfactory and it was my child then I would send in a letter to the principal that my child was to leave school before detention each evening.

You said it's after school yea? In my school detention was always during break time, what happens in your school after hours for it to stay open?

Tayla

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Either way if detention is listed in the school discipline policy, which you and your parents have accepted, you do not have a leg to stand on,legally.

I don't think refusing to tell on another child would be listed in the rules as a reason for getting detention especially considering some people probably don't know who actually did it!

wnolan1992

Oh how I miss my secondary school days!! [/sarcasm]

You might be technically in the right here, but trying to do anything about it will most likely get you expelled/suspended/politely asked to find education elsewhere.

What kind of a sh*tehawk is the guy/girl whose phone it was? Seriously, I could understand not owning up the first day, calling the teacher's bluff and all, but if this has been going on for 2-3 days after school you'd think you'd just cut your losses....

Sad to say, that a blanket punishment like this is the only one available. The teacher can't really say "Well, I've a feeling it came from either one of those six desks..." when there is a slight possiblity that it came from one right next to ther.

As has been said, you're under no legal obligation to stay after 4pm, but note that by leaving you'll probably be in violation of the school's own rules and code of conduct - no doubt there's a part saying "You must obey your teachers"/"If a detention is given you must comply" and it will probably get you suspended.

My advice, grin and bear it for as long as it takes. Use it to your advantage, it's like free after school study. Get all your homework done, study etc.
When it eventually comes out (and it will eventually come out) who it was.... beat seven shades of sh*t into him/her.

Ghostx

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Who do you mean by "The Board of Education?" Do you mean the DES or the school's Borad of Management?Either way if detention is listed in the school discipline policy, which you and your parents have accepted, you do not have a leg to stand on,legally.

I don't mind detentions. I think they're a good idea, and I'll do a detention without asking any questions if I actually deserved it.
My problem with this whole situation is that I was sitting at the front of this class, doing my work when someones phone at the back of the class made a noise. Why would I need to be disciplined? I don't deserve a detention, and I definitely don't deserve to be put on detention for an hour every single day, just because 1 pathetic person doesn't have the balls (excuse the expression) to own up.

Tayla

Do some people not have buses to catch after school?

Ghostx

Tayla wrote: »

Do some people not have buses to catch after school?

Oh they do. Some people even have matches to play with the school team, and training etc.. but according to this teacher 'School punishments are a number 1 priority. They come before your social life, and your sports life and everything else'. So he's not letting them train, or play in the matches if it's interfering with the detention.

He said today 'I don't care if you have a bus to catch, you're staying here for detention. If somebody needs a lift home, I'll give it to them or another teacher will, but I can tell you one thing, you're not getting off detention just because you might miss a lift home'.

Ghostx

wnolan1992 wrote: »

My advice, grin and bear it for as long as it takes. Use it to your advantage, it's like free after school study. Get all your homework done, study etc.
When it eventually comes out (and it will eventually come out) who it was.... beat seven shades of sh*t into him/her.

You're not allowed to do work during detentions. You basically just have to sit there, staring at the wall and playing with your thumbs to pass the time.

Nobody is going to own up, because of the fact that they've already got us 2 detentions. They've already signed them self up for a beating, and the longer it goes on, the worse it will be. So nobody will own up.

Tayla

Ghostx wrote: »

Oh they do. Some people even have matches to play with the school team, and training etc.. but according to this teacher 'School punishments are a number 1 priority. They come before your social life, and your sports life and everything else'. So he's not letting them train, or play in the matches if it's interfering with the detention.

He said today 'I don't care if you have a bus to catch, you're staying here for detention. If somebody needs a lift home, I'll give it to them or another teacher will, but I can tell you one thing, you're not getting off detention just because you might miss a lift home'.

Sounds like someones ego is getting the better of them, that is absolutely ridiculous!

For a start people pay good money to get school buses home or their parents have to collect them and fit their own day around that, suggesting that he or another teacher would bring them home is ridiculous and probably not even allowed!

What do the football coaches have to say about it? Surely more parents will get involved apart from your own, the principal should have knocked it on the head by now.

Ms Minnie Mouse

Strictly speaking, anyone who knows who the culprit is is an accessory...

..It's really frustrating, I appreciate that. Back through the mists of time, when I was at secondary school, I remember being given class detention because of something someone else did. Generally everyone towed the line afterwards though because nobody wanted to give the slightest excuse for it to happen again.

Of course, I was never involved. I've always been perfect

Ghostx

Tayla wrote: »

Sounds like someones ego is getting the better of them, that is absolutely ridiculous!

For a start people pay good money to get school buses home or their parents have to collect them and fit their own day around that, suggesting that he or another teacher would bring them home is ridiculous and probably not even allowed!

What do the football coaches have to say about it?

Starting next week, I'll have to collect my 8 year old sister every day after school, and if I have to stay back every day then my parents will have to pay a babysitter to collect my sister and mind her until I'm home, which is why I need this situation resolved.
Well, the teacher who's giving the detention is one of the rugby coaches, which is the main sport.

Tayla

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

Strictly speaking, anyone who knows who the culprit is is an accessory...

No they're not, it's a school, they're not criminals.

Kids have enough to be worrying about without being forced to tell on their schoolmates, they might be worried about being known as a telltale. It's not fair on teachers to expect students to 'rat' on their peers.

Ms Minnie Mouse

Do you mind me asking what the average age of your class is?

Rugby coaches are scary :S

Witcher

Ghostx wrote: »

He said today 'I don't care if you have a bus to catch, you're staying here for detention. If somebody needs a lift home, I'll give it to them or another teacher will, but I can tell you one thing, you're not getting off detention just because you might miss a lift home'.

Fcuk that sh1t:pac: I personally would have walked out if the same situation occured when I was in secondary school and I know 90% of my year would have done the same. That's utter bs.

Ghostx

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what the average age of your class is?

Rugby coaches are scary :S

Average age would be 16 I guess and there's about 25 in the class.

Tayla

Ghostx wrote: »

Starting next week, I'll have to collect my 8 year old sister every day after school, and if I have to stay back every day then my parents will have to pay a babysitter to collect my sister and mind her until I'm home, which is why I need this situation resolved.

Hopefully your parents will sort this with the teacher on Monday, I'd suggest that they already have a letter written out to give to the principal on Monday just incase the principal will not back down.

Just something about the fact that you need to leave at whatever time as you have duties outside your normal school hours.

Ghostx wrote: »

Well, the teacher who's giving the detention is one of the rugby coaches, which is the main sport.

Sorry I didn't necessarily mean football, it's just it's all that's mentioned in this house!!

Ms Minnie Mouse

Tayla, I see the point you're making - but teachers have a right to be respected by their pupils. They are there to learn, not text message! If the school has a policy, or rule, that mobile phones are not permitted in classrooms or must at least be on silent and this rule is broken - how would you resolve the situation if you were that teacher? Would you let your pupils break the rules and show you complete disregard? We all have a right to be respected, no matter what job we do. However, earning respect works both ways.

Tayla

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

Tayla, I see the point you're making - but teachers have a right to be respected by their pupils. They are there to learn, not text message! If the school has a policy, or rule, that mobile phones are not permitted in classrooms or must at least be on silent and this rule is broken - how would you resolve the situation if you were that teacher? Would you let your pupils break the rules and show you complete disregard? We all have a right to be respected, no matter what job we do. However, earning respect works both ways.

It was only one person who broke the rules though, the teacher has made their point and should not be allowed to punish everyone else.

Ghostx

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

Tayla, I see the point you're making - but teachers have a right to be respected by their pupils. They are there to learn, not text message! If the school has a policy, or rule, that mobile phones are not permitted in classrooms or must at least be on silent and this rule is broken - how would you resolve the situation if you were that teacher? Would you let your pupils break the rules and show you complete disregard? We all have a right to be respected, no matter what job we do. However, earning respect works both ways.

Yeah sure, a teacher deserves respect, and you get respect by disciplining people who are out of line. But, he is taking the situation way too far, and I'm sure that you agree with that, even if you only agree a tiny bit.
What he's doing isn't earning him respect, it's just going to get him labelled as a 'prick' (excuse the language).
As for phones in class, it was first class so it could have been a genuine accident. I'm sure you've went somewhere in the morning and completely forgot to turn your phone off or on silent. The noise could have been something as simple as a battery low notification. There's nothing to tie it down to somebody texting in class.

Ms Minnie Mouse

You still haven't said how you WOULD have dealt with the situation if you were the teacher.

So everyone has received equal punishment - therefore the person who WAS at fault has, actually, broken even and not suffered any more than anyone else. He (the person with the mobile) has just proved to be a coward who'd happily let the rest of his classmates suffer so he doesn't have to take the blame. I actually believe that his classmates don't know who he is, as he'd probably be identifiable by the black eyes (joke...I am in no way advocating violence!)!

I didn't cause the economic crisis - so why do I have to go without pay rises for 6 years, pay more tax and cut back on what little luxuries I had - whilst trying to support two young children on one wage?

My guess is that by Monday it'll all be over anyway. I'd also wager that pupils will be EXTRA careful to ensure phones are on silent/off before class! Lesson learned.

wnolan1992

A few options off the top of my head which I'd have probably tried a few years ago if this crap was happening to em.

1. Get a note every day from your parents saying you need to leave at 3:55 for various appointments.

2. If you could get your entire class to agree, go to the detention, wait 2 minutes, and then walk out. I highly doubt they school wants to suspend 25 of their students in one go.

3. Get your parents to raise the issue with the principal. Get them to point out to him/her that since even the teacher agrees that it couldn't have been you (going by the fact you were at front right, phone at back left) and that it is really important that you leave school at 4 to collect your sister.

4. Get the entire class to refuse to do any work for this teacher. Turn up to class, but don't acknowledge the teacher's existence.

No.3 is probably the best option.

And I get that teacher's need to be respected, but at the same time they need to respect their students. If he has narrowed down the rough area from where the noise came from, then only keep those students back. More pressure then for someone to own up since there's a high likelihood that a few of those will know who it is.

Ms Minnie Mouse

Ghostx - I do see your point and to some extent I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. I mean, I'm p*ssed off that the allowable list of foods for my primary school kids is so limited - so I do agree, some rules suck. You also have to remember that I left school around the year you were born and mobile phones were NOT part of general life back then, so my understanding of the need to have one in class is fairly limited, when we had to make do with the school payphone at lunchtimes!

However, on the other hand, if I put myself in your teacher's shoes, I'd have been highly irritated as well had my lesson been interrupted by a mobile phone that should have been off. You can be assured that he doesn't have an easy job in the first place and lack of respect, in any profession, does not go down well.

p.s. even in the office where I work, phones have to be on silent, so it isn't just a silly school rule...

Ghostx

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

Ghostx - I do see your point and to some extent I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. I mean, I'm p*ssed off that the allowable list of foods for my primary school kids is so limited - so I do agree, some rules suck. You also have to remember that I left school around the year you were born and mobile phones were NOT part of general life back then, so my understanding of the need to have one in class is fairly limited, when we had to make do with the school payphone at lunchtimes!

However, on the other hand, if I put myself in your teacher's shoes, I'd have been highly irritated as well had my lesson been interrupted by a mobile phone that should have been off. You can be assured that he doesn't have an easy job in the first place and lack of respect, in any profession, does not go down well.

p.s. even in the office where I work, phones have to be on silent, so it isn't just a silly school rule...

We show the teacher respect during school, and we have a laugh with him.

All this is because of one person not having the balls to own up to something small, which has now escalated into something big. The person whose phone it was, probably respects the teacher too, but it's not exactly easy to own up to something. Especially at this stage of it, because if the person owns up now, they'll have to deal with the teacher, and 20+ other pissed off students.

wnolan1992

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

However, on the other hand, if I put myself in your teacher's shoes, I'd have been highly irritated as well had my lesson been interrupted by a mobile phone that should have been off. You can be assured that he doesn't have an easy job in the first place and lack of respect, in any profession, does not go down well.

It's funny, there were two general categories of teachers in our school. Both dealt with mobile phones differently.

Those that could control the class:
*phone noises*
"Right, put it on silent now, if it goes off again, you can go to the office."
*moves on with lesson, approx 5 seconds taken up*

Those that couldn't control the class:
*phone noises*
"Right!! Who was that? Come on, give it here!"
*confiscates phone*
*argument between teacher and pupil*
*moves on with lesson, approx 2 minutes lost, plus a reputation as being a prick for the teacher.*

One guess as to the group of teachers above that were the best at their job and ended up with the best average grades in the LC, plus actually being as close to friends as you can be with your teachers....

If it was the first class of the day, I really think this teacher needs to cop on. Seriously, if he'd said "Right, put it on silent" and just moved on, he get far more respect from his students than what he'll get now by "disciplining" them like this. Guaranteed, there'll be an atmosphere of resentment in the class from now on, and you're gonna be less likely to put in effort for a teacher who you think is a complete arsehole.

Ms Minnie Mouse

So based on what you're saying, this is obviously the first time this has happened with this particular teacher then?

MagicSean

What is the punishment for having a phone? Have you all not done the time at this stage?

Ghostx

MagicSean wrote: »

What is the punishment for having a phone? Have you all not done the time at this stage?

Punishment in my school is usually it gets taken off you for a week. That's only if the teacher is in a really bad mood. Usually they will just tell you to turn it off.
Never heard of anybody getting a detention for having a phone

MagicSean

Ghostx wrote: »

Punishment in my school is usually it gets taken off you for a week. That's only if the teacher is in a really bad mood. Usually they will just tell you to turn it off.
Never heard of anybody getting a detention for having a phone

Just give them your phone for a week and enjoy your freedom.