What is happening to young people in the UK?

Foxhound38

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/mugging-death-boys-in-murder-probe-530016.html

Another story, amongst a seemingly endless slew of them coming from our neighbours accross the water indicating that they have just lost control of their young people for one reason or another. Reading the story made me feel sad more than anything - for the old woman who died, for her family, and even for the kids being investigated on suspicion of murder over it - what events in their lives led to them to be capable of mugging (and it seems, killing) a defenceless old woman?

We hear more and more reports of incidents like this from the UK - from rising knife crime, to rioting, even to increasing truancy, the common denominator seems to be young people - and the obvious question is what is happening or has happened in the UK to bring this out in their youth? Are we headed down the same path in Ireland? How do we stop it from happening here?

Jesus Wept

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

NIMAN

I blame the breakdown of the family, and no strong male role model in youngsters lives. Some children are raring themselves these days, with parent(s) who couldn't care less.

That story is so sad. She was still carrying her husbands ashes with her 17 years after he died. Poor woman. At least she is with him now.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

It already is. Sure those young lads will probably spend 2 years getting well fed, playing playstation and being provided with the best tracksuits money can buy before being released to reoffend..... And people wonder why the prison system doesn't work....

Funny thing is, if it was either of these lads granny that this had happened to, the offenders would be stabbed to death in an alleyway by now. Makes you think doesnt it?

Oranage2

- Girl raped by 2 guys last week
- Decades if not Centuries of sexual abuse from the Catholic church
- Pensioner rape last year
- Murders and stabbings daily


We're already there! but I guess the UK is a multiculturalism experiment gone wrong.

Super-Rush

Two boys are being quizzed by police in Britain today on suspicion of murdering a widow described as “the best mum in the world”, who died after muggers stole her handbag containing her husband’s ashes.

Nellie Geraghty, 79, suffered serious head injuries as she desperately tried to cling on to the bag during the attack in Oldham, Greater Manchester, on Thursday.

Police said she died in Royal Oldham Hospital Hospital at around midnight on Friday.

Two youths were originally arrested on suspicion of robbery but are now being quizzed on suspicion of murder.

Former school cleaner and cotton mill worker Mrs Geraghty was found collapsed in an alleyway near her home in Shaw just before noon on Thursday.

Inside her handbag was a blue velvet bag containing the ashes of her husband Frank, – who died 17 years ago – in a small box, and also £200 in cash.

The handbag was missing from the scene but the strap was still in the pensioner’s hand.

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police said: “Two boys aged 14 and 17 have been arrested on suspicion of murder and remain in police custody.”

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/mugging-death-boys-in-murder-probe-530016.html#ixzz1ey3eeKTK

For the people using m.boards.

chucken1

The-Rigger wrote: »

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

I'll step in quitely. Im never sure if you're serious.
Yes to everything you said..kinda:o

FearDark

Lock them up and throw away the key.

In reality though, they'll be walking around the streets in no time again.

Makes me sick.

Hank Scorpio

I'd give my opinion if I wasn't afraid I'd be banned for it.

chucken1

Foxhound38 wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/mugging-death-boys-in-murder-probe-530016.html

Another story, amongst a seemingly endless slew of them coming from our neighbours accross the water indicating that they have just lost control of their young people for one reason or another. Reading the story made me feel sad more than anything - for the old woman who died, for her family, and even for the kids being investigated on suspicion of murder over it - what events in their lives led to them to be capable of mugging (and it seems, killing) a defenceless old woman?

We hear more and more reports of incidents like this from the UK - from rising knife crime, to rioting, even to increasing truancy, the common denominator seems to be young people - and the obvious question is what is happening or has happened in the UK to bring this out in their youth? Are we headed down the same path in Ireland? How do we stop it from happening here?

May I say? the Dubs come in here with similar stories,so its not just in the uk?

Oranage2

nuxxx wrote: »

I'd give my opinion if I wasn't afraid I'd be banned for it.

Go on or atleast a taste.

Foxhound38

FearDark wrote: »

Lock them up and throw away the key.

In reality though, they'll be walking around the streets in no time again.

Makes me sick.

That attitude, while understandible, doesn't really answer the question about why it is happening to the extent it is though. Clearly, there is some kind of systemic problem in the UK to see a this extent of a rise in youth crime in the short time it has taken? I'm not saying they should go easy on offenders, but trying to understand the problem might be key to fixing it in the longer term - people don't say "the justice system will let me off easy - I think I'll go steal that car/attack that person/etc".

As for the 2 teenagers in question - something must have led them to what happened. I refuse to believe, in the normal run of things, that a 17 year old and a 14 year old would be capable of killing a defenceless old woman over her handbag. What happened in their lives that would allow them to do this?

LighterGuy

whats happening?
Nothing new. People are scum.

FearDark

Foxhound38 wrote: »

That attitude, while understandible, doesn't really answer the question about why it is happening to the extent it is though. Clearly, there is some kind of systemic problem in the UK to see a this extent of a rise in youth crime in the short time it has taken? I'm not saying they should go easy on offenders, but trying to understand the problem might be key to fixing it in the longer term - people don't say "the justice system will let me off easy - I think I'll go steal that car/attack that person/etc".

As for the 2 teenagers in question - something must have led them to what happened. I refuse to believe, in the normal run of things, that a 17 year old and a 14 year old would be capable of killing a defenceless old woman over her handbag. What happened in their lives that would allow them to do this?

People like you are the problem, you use words like "understand" and "fixing", I think you mis-read my post. I didn't mean lock them up [as in rehabilitate them] I meant literally lock those fúcks up, and then proceed to stick the key up your rectum so the scum can never get out. They dont actually deserve to breathe.

Foxhound38

FearDark wrote: »

People like you are the problem, you use words like "understand" and "fixing", I think you mis-read my post. I didn't mean lock them up [as in rehabilitate them] I meant literally lock those fúcks up, and then proceed to stick the key up your rectum so the scum can never get out. They dont actually deserve to breathe.

So they should still be in prison in their 60's over something they did in their teens (in the case of the 14 year old - essentially in his childhood), no attempts at rehabilitation, no nothing, with the State paying to feed, clothe and house them in prison for the rest of their lives. Seems like an aweful waste really...

Anyway, I could see where you where coming from if stuff like this was once off or isolated but it's rampant in the UK. That lads that young where able to come to the decision to mug old woman in such a violent way, and that such behaviour isn't unusual is a terrifying commentary on a nations youth - and a problem the "lock them all up and beat them with hammers" attitude isn't going to solve in the long term unfortunately - again, unless you want to put forward the argument that "the justice system will go relatively easy on me - I think I'll steal that car/beat up that person/etc" is the way some people think about things, which I find unlikely...

Besides, "understanding" the problem with a view to "fixing" it would be a good place to start to avoid falling into such pitfalls here in Ireland...

busyliving

Ourselves and Britain need our very own Dexter style vigilante

acidskiffle

Foxhound38 wrote: »

As for the 2 teenagers in question - something must have led them to what happened. I refuse to believe, in the normal run of things, that a 17 year old and a 14 year old would be capable of killing a defenceless old woman over her handbag. What happened in their lives that would allow them to do this?

Some people are just born bad eggs I think.

Lapin

Foxhound38 wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/mugging-death-boys-in-murder-probe-530016.html

Are we headed down the same path in Ireland? How do we stop it from happening here?

The scum would only get done for manslaughter here.

Chuck Stone

Typical paranoid, sensationalist, lacking in perspective, crap in this thread.

The world has never been safer and less violent than in recent times.

jayteecork

The-Rigger wrote: »

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

I presume you're joking or did you just get off a time machine from Victorian times?

MagicSean

For the most part it's bad parenting.

raymann

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Typical paranoid, sensationalist, lacking in perspective, crap in this thread.

The world has never been safer and less violent than in recent times.

is that true? interesting if so.

Chuck Stone

raymann wrote: »

is that true? interesting if so.

Yep.

If you're really interested watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk

Chen019

In the UK immigration is an obvious factor. If you look at the crime rates in some of the countries where immigration has been from over the past 50 years, it has been from places with far higher crime rates than the UK. Unsurprisingly, those groups are then significantly overrepresented in crime in the UK.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856787/Violent-inner-city-crime-the-figures-and-a-question-of-race.html

www.economist.com/node/21528285

ericsinjun

jayteecork wrote: »

I presume you're joking or did you just get off a time machine from Victorian times?

Maybe even ancient Greece. Socrates if I'm not mistaken. Plus ca change

Giruilla

The UK's population is roughly 14 times bigger than ours. If our population was that big I'd be very suprised if worse things weren't happening.

LordSutch

Giruilla wrote: »

The UK's population is roughly 14 times bigger than ours. If our population was that big I'd be very suprised if worse things weren't happening.

Very true, the UK with a population of approximately sixty million people is bound to have proportionately more crime than a small country like Ireland with a population of 4.2 million people! Maybe a comparrison between the UK & France would be a more balanced comparrison. Then compare crime rates in Ireland with Denmark or Norway maybe?

Giruilla

LordSutch wrote: »

Very true, the UK with a population of approximately sixty million people is bound to have proportionately more crime than a small country like Ireland with a population of 4.2 million people! Maybe a comparrison between the UK & France would be a more balanced comparrison. Then compare crime rates in Ireland with Denmark or Norway maybe?

I'd take a guess that our crime rate is considerably higher than both those countries..

dj jarvis

ericsinjun wrote: »

Maybe even ancient Greece. Socrates if I'm not mistaken. Plus ca change

socrates quote about teenagers from ancient greece it is :-)

still relevant today

behavior started to slide in this country when the children realized that the local cop or teacher cant give them a clip to the head, or a boot up the hole

not condoning violence against children AT ALL - but i was kept in check when i was a lad for fear or getting a belt off my parents of my teacher or the local cop

and the detention centers do need a look at also - it should be made super tough so they will think long and hard before re offending - nothing cruel but hard - if you knew you might go to a famously tough prison you might not be so quick to offend

Dyr

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Yep.

If you're really interested watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk

Is this the one where he shows that post 1960's violent crime surged in in the US until the 90s? I never saw any figures for the UK to suggest that had happened there too. Of course stats are not much use when you live in one of the statistical anomalies.

So he's correct in the broad picture about violence but that aint much help to people living in sh**holes in the UK

bobbysands81

Oranage2 wrote: »

We're already there! but I guess the UK is a multiculturalism experiment gone wrong.

Yup, it's all the fault of the blacks mate. Well done. :rolleyes:

Doc Ruby

Foxhound38 wrote: »

That attitude, while understandible, doesn't really answer the question about why it is happening to the extent it is though. Clearly, there is some kind of systemic problem in the UK to see a this extent of a rise in youth crime in the short time it has taken?

The problem as usual is social in nature, in my opinion. You have a culture in some parts where the police are viewed as a rival gang rather than the duly authorised enforcers of the laws we all agree to follow.

So it builds up into a culture where if you call the police for help, everyone around you turns on you, which puts whole communities at the mercy of vicious thugs and gangsters, a woeful state of affairs entirely of their own making and stupidity. Obviously children growing up there are going to feel they can do what they like, without parental supervision or fear of consequence.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face in the name of puffed up schoolyard bravado.

Ellis Dee

As the veteran Portlaoise politician Joe "the Hesh" McCormack once famously said: "It's not the parents I blame. It's the mothers and fathers.";);)

Oranage2

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Yup, it's all the fault of the blacks mate. Well done. :rolleyes:

It was sarcasm now run along you'll be late for school.

W.Shakes-Beer

That story is dreadfully sad, and unfortunately becoming the norm almost.

Scum like that don't deserve the petty few years in prison and then released back into society.

Bringing back the death penalty might make scum think twice about their actions.

Dionysus

LordSutch wrote: »

Very true, the UK with a population of approximately sixty million people is bound to have proportionately more crime than a small country like Ireland with a population of 4.2 million people!

Proportionately more? I'm surprised you'd admit that.

biko

chucken1 wrote: »

May I say? the Dubs come in here with similar stories,so its not just in the uk?

Or is it?.........

Ellian

jayteecork wrote: »

I presume you're joking or did you just get off a time machine from Victorian times?

I was waiting for the punchline that this was an excerpt from a newspaper op-ed from the 1850's..

Rookster

The big problem in the UK is the number of families without a father figure. Added to this is the high separation/divorce rate there.

bobbysands81

Oranage2 wrote: »

It was sarcasm now run along you'll be late for school.

Apologies are due so, it went completely over my head.

ejmaztec

Most of the little sh1ts in the UK have enough knowledge to qualify as lawyers specialising in criminal law and human rights. The only thing holding them back is illiteracy.

MrThrifty

Put it down to a combo of society and parenting issues myself... Am connected with the childcare sector here and all I can say is that there are huge problems coming down the road for us. People (not men obviously) are generally popping out babies these days like there's no tomorrow - I suspect they'd often spend longer considering whether to buy a pet dog than to have a child. I see many couples with blatant relationship issues having a child without batting an eyelid or in some cases in the hope that it will fix things. And while some reading this might like to assume I'm referring to lower class folk, it applies across the board and to a relatively large percentage of couples out there (i.e. many boardsies users). Some other issues relate to poor parenting whereby couples adopt the attitude 'sure we'll pick it up as we go along' or 'sure there aren't books on this kind of thing' (quoted by an expectant mother on that RTE maternity series aired in the last year)! Anyway, this is all only half the problem but it ties in with the societal ones.

Oranage2

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Apologies are due so, it went completely over my head.

I apologise too, my post was a little condesending and my original post wasnt that clear.

44leto

Some seem to have a dislocation from the wider society. They don't feel part of it. It's what happens in a place with a stark division of wealth. Its one of the legacies of the Thatcher era. The wealth division has grown in the UK and for that matter it is widening in the world.

I don't know what you can do about that, the reality is globalisation, you can't have the state sponsored industry, protectionism or trade barriers anymore. The reality is some young people are growing up and knowing that a lot of them are not going to have careers, so they owe society nothing.

I am originally from a tough area and OP, there I see a bunch of teens with similar attitudes.

spoofilyj

The-Rigger wrote: »

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Is that a quote from the 1800's?

I think every generation thinks that the younger generation growing up is worse and less well mannered than the one that went before.

While there seems to be a lot of scumbag young people out there, I think that because we now hear every but of bad news from all over the world almost immeadiately and that the media love to spin things up into a frenzy, when statistics show that we have never had such a low crime rate I dont think that the moral fiber of society is about to collapse...

desertcircus

W.Shakes-Beer wrote: »

That story is dreadfully sad, and unfortunately becoming the norm almost.

Bringing back the death penalty might make scum think twice about their actions.

Except violent crime is far less prevalent than when the death penalty was in place, and there's no evidence that such a penalty actually works as a deterrent. But by all means go ahead and demand that a fourteen-year-old child be killed by the state.

pickarooney

There's no fear of God in these youngsters any more. There's your problem.

ejmaztec

Giving them a severe talking to obviously doesn't work, so the authorities are going to have to allow the teachers and parents to give them a good kicking once a week. If they still persist, it's lobotomy time.

ICANN

Well I teach in secondary schools in the UK at the moment and I swear I never want to raise a child in this country!!! It's true what someone said a while ago- they have no fear whatsoever of anyone or anything. There's on-site police men in loads of schools and the students don't give a toss about them. They have everything given to them too- one boy who has anger issues goes for anger management and goes to snow-boarding classes (missing subjects like english and maths) as part of his anger management therapy.

The wannabe gangsta thing is big here too and they aaaallllll talk like 'swear down fam', 'truss blad' 'blad blad blad'. It really gets on my nerves. Their education system really panders to students- teachers can't restrain fighting students for fear of being accused of assault. If you watch educating essex- that's the attitude they have and that's one the better public schools over here!!

Lollipops23

ICANN wrote: »

Well I teach in secondary schools in the UK at the moment and I swear I never want to raise a child in this country!!! It's true what someone said a while ago- they have no fear whatsoever of anyone or anything.

That's a good insight from the teaching perspective- I take it your Irish? So they are worse in the UK than here? It's something I was wondering when the riots were breaking out in England, if similar could happen here.

Lollipops23

Rookster wrote: »

The big problem in the UK is the number of families without a father figure. Added to this is the high separation/divorce rate there.

woah, that's a crock of shíte. I'm from a so-called "broken home" and never had the urge to mug a granny.
Piss poor parenting and single parenting are very different things.