"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Jehuty42

Fair enough. I thought that gives you a "Just validated" error, though maybe I'm thinking of something else.

goingnowhere

You have to wait 125 seconds before trying to leave, then it will cancel correctly, refund you and open the gates

johnmcdnl

If your first trip is going to be on a bus after topping up is there even any point in topping up online.... seems to be just so much handier paying in the shop when you go in to get the credit loaded....
Or am I missing some major point ?

Carawaystick

goingnowhere wrote: »

You have to wait 125 seconds before trying to leave, then it will cancel correctly, refund you and open the gates

This is clearly explained where?

the nta people aren't rushing to explain how the card works are they?

Bajingo

Carawaystick wrote: »

This is clearly explained where?

the nta people aren't rushing to explain how the card works are they?

I got an email about it the other day, but it wasn't the main point of the email, other wise I wouldn't have known about it.

Some of the employees don't know how the cards work, I asked for help with mine, just making sure I successfully tagged off, ultimately he ended up tagging me on again and charging me the flat rate on top of the fare I had already paid...obviously he didn't know of the 'wait two minutes' rule. To be fair to the helpline though it was sorted out easily and I got my money back.

Victor

johnmcdnl wrote: »

If your first trip is going to be on a bus after topping up is there even any point in topping up online.... seems to be just so much handier paying in the shop when you go in to get the credit loaded....

If a parent was adding credit for their children, it means they could do it from home or indeed a payroll office could do it for staff.

Green Diesel

Still can't register a card.

bk

Green Diesel wrote: »

Still can't register a card.

Where is says to enter your card number, don't enter the first 0 of the card number.

Green Diesel

bk wrote: »

Where is says to enter your card number, don't enter the first 0 of the card number.

The first number is a 1, should I try omitting that, and put in the next 10 digits? (or 9 digits)

Green Diesel

I tried leaving out the 1, and leaving out all zeroes, and only putting in the last 10 digits, none of which were recognised.

Putting in the first 10 digits is recognised and brings me to confirm name, address, email etc. Only after this stage does the system error occur.

steamengine

I'm getting the same message minus the error code when trying to view transaction history. Plus the site is very slow after signing in. Is the site working ok for anyone else ?

markpb

steamengine wrote: »

I'm getting the same message minus the error code when trying to view transaction history. Plus the site is very slow after signing in. Is the site working ok for anyone else ?

I'm getting this error this morning too:
The application experienced unexpected problems completing your request. We're sorry for the inconvenience. Please try again later.

Edit: Emailed Leap customer care and got this response two minutes later:

Leap wrote:

Thank you for your Email. We are experiencing some technical difficulties at the moment. We are hoping to have a resolution to this situation as soon as possible. Our apologies for the inconvenience this has caused.
Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

TiGeR KiNgS

I registered my card now

I have a question
What happens your 5 Euro deposit ?

Green Diesel

I think the deposit is returned if you ever want to return the card.

I was able to register the card just there. Does the transaction history page just show purchases of credit? I used the card this morning and there is no record of it online, perhaps there is a delay?

markpb

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

What happens your 5 Euro deposit ?

The deposit is there because Irish Rail and Luas deduct the maximum fare from your card when you tag on. At the end of your journey, the difference between the maximum fare and your actual fare is returned to your card.

If you are making a €1 trip and have €1 balance, you wouldn't normally be able to tag on (because the maximum fare is greater than €1). In this case, the rest of the fare is deducted from your deposit, allowing you to make your trip as normal. Day to day, you shouldn't even be aware of this and shouldn't care about your deposit. If you return your card, as Green Diesel says, you'll get the deposit back.

Green Diesel wrote: »

I was able to register the card just there. Does the transaction history page just show purchases of credit? I used the card this morning and there is no record of it online, perhaps there is a delay?

Everything is batched to the main system overnight or, at the very least, several hours later so it'll show up later on.

foggy_lad

Carawaystick wrote: »

This is clearly explained where?

the nta people aren't rushing to explain how the card works are they?

Nothing is fully or properly explained by Leap or the NTA

bk wrote: »

Where is says to enter your card number, don't enter the first 0 of the card number.

Green Diesel wrote: »

I tried leaving out the 1, and leaving out all zeroes, and only putting in the last 10 digits, none of which were recognised.

Putting in the first 10 digits is recognised and brings me to confirm name, address, email etc. Only after this stage does the system error occur.

The whole issue of the card number not being compatible with the website should ring alarm bells about the site and the quality of the IT for the whole leap project!

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

I registered my card now

I have a question
What happens your 5 Euro deposit ?

Green Diesel wrote: »

I think the deposit is returned if you ever want to return the card.

I was able to register the card just there. Does the transaction history page just show purchases of credit? I used the card this morning and there is no record of it online, perhaps there is a delay?

The terms and conditions state you might get the deposit back but it is at the discretion of leapcard and the government, it is most likely it will be consumed by administration charges.
The transaction and journey history can take a day or two to update.

Aard

I'd be interested to see which cities were travelled to in deciding how to implement the ITS. Is this info publicly available?

Coriolanus

They read some wiki articles.

Anyway. Whatever problem that periodically left db card readers not operating despite being physically on and "ready" is affecting leap too. Got two journeys without being able to tag, ie: free, in the last week.

AlekSmart

Aard wrote: »

I'd be interested to see which cities were travelled to in deciding how to implement the ITS. Is this info publicly available?

Well...how about Singapore for a start...

http://www.rpa.ie/en/rpa/about/Pages/background.aspx

In September 2008, RPA announced the contract to supply back office for the Integrated Ticketing Scheme was awarded to IBM. The system to be developed is based on the best-in-class system in Singapore. IBM will be supported by their sub-contractor, MSI, to modify the Singapore system to meet the needs of Dublin.

Note the "Modify" aspect....as if Singapores system was'nt up to our individual demands ....:rolleyes:

antoinolachtnai

Well, I think that was the back-office system that IBM supplied.

There are various reference sites, but the issue isn't really the reference sites, any more than it is about features and what particular features or add-ons a system has. The issue is the quality and the vision of the implementation. This isn't really a problem for the team that implemented, it's a problem with the governance.

One of the big issues with the system from the start has been the lack of any clearly stated objectives for the system.

Paul Tergat

I registered my card there just now and went to top up.

Am I right in thinking that I can 'top up' online (basically pay for it) but then need to go somewhere to have the credit loaded onto my card? Seems a terrible system if so and really irritating

Dravokivich

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I registered my card there just now and went to top up.

Am I right in thinking that I can 'top up' online (basically pay for it) but then need to go somewhere to have the credit loaded onto my card? Seems a terrible system if so and really irritating

How else is the topup meant to get to the card? It has to connect to the system somewhere to recognise it.

SteM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I registered my card there just now and went to top up.

Am I right in thinking that I can 'top up' online (basically pay for it) but then need to go somewhere to have the credit loaded onto my card? Seems a terrible system if so and really irritating

How else is the topup meant to get to the card? It has to connect to the system somewhere to recognise it.

Unless I'm mistaken when I top up my oyster card in the UK on line my card recognises the money the next tike I get the bus.

LXFlyer

Not correct.

https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/link/0001.do

1. Make your purchase online
2. Activate at a station (Tube, DLR, London Overground or most National Rail stations within the London area) or tram stop when you start your journey.

You are thinking of the auto-top up feature that has yet to be activated for LEAP but is coming.

In that case, your Oyster card is topped up every time your pay as you go balance falls below £8 and you make a journey. This will happen when you touch your Oyster card on a yellow card reader as you enter or exit a station or board a bus or tram.

Paul Tergat

Dravokivich wrote: »

How else is the topup meant to get to the card? It has to connect to the system somewhere to recognise it.

Im sure its not difficult to come up with a system to allow for this. As it stands I now still need to go somewhere to allow the top up so may as well just go get cash instead.

markpb

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Im sure its not difficult to come up with a system to allow for this

Actually, without using the reverse system described by lxflyer (and which will be introduced on Leap), it's impossible. You cannot update a smartcard without introducing it to a reader. They're not internet connected, they don't have a phone line, they don't have any way to talk to the outside world. This isn't a Leap problem it isn't a Dublin problem, it's a fundamental characteristic of smartcards.

Tarabuses

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Im sure its not difficult to come up with a system to allow for this. As it stands I now still need to go somewhere to allow the top up so may as well just go get cash instead.

Yes, I would agree that top up online is of no use to anyone who only uses the card on the bus.

Paul Tergat

markpb wrote: »

Actually, without using the reverse system described by lxflyer (and which will be introduced on Leap), it's impossible. You cannot update a smartcard without introducing it to a reader. They're not internet connected, they don't have a phone line, they don't have any way to talk to the outside world. This isn't a Leap problem it isn't a Dublin problem, it's a fundamental characteristic of smartcards.

aye i think im going into this kind of blind so didnt really know the complexities of it. i just assumed such a scheme, that allowed for an online top up, would be as described.

BrianD

One of the big failings of the implementation of the LEAP card is that there was no reorganisation of the fare zones.

There was a golden opportunity to create a zone system. Instead you have complicated zones or stages that have to be incorporated into the system. I would guess that the Singapore system was modified to take account of the outdated and incomprehensible system that DB use.

I often wonder why we couldn't have gone with transport zones, standard tickets i.e. monthly/weekly/90 min that can be used across all modes and then penalise people who pay cash. This was all that was required.

There does seem to be a preference towards cash fares in this city. The LEAP card is too complicated to use for many and the discounts aren't really that obvious or apparent. It just could not be more unattractive as a proposition for the mass market.

LXFlyer

It's not just that though. When it comes to public transport, many Irish people just don't bother looking to see if there are cheaper alternatives, and even when they do know about them, just don't bother availing of them.

The Travel 90 card has been in existence for over 15 years, maybe even longer, and has, at different times, been heavily advertised on buses, bus shelters etc, yet many people still pay the cash fare for over 13 stages (€2.65), which is costing them €0.50 per journey.

I've lost count of the number of times I've had conversations with people who say that they never knew about the alternatives. When asked if they had a look at the relevant operator's website, the answer was usually "No"!

I'd agree though - a zonal structure would be far more preferable to the staged fare system. However, again it would have to be one that did not result in the fare box revenue for DB diminishing, given the subsidy is falling year on year (someone has to pay for the service!).

There are already annual/monthly/weekly/daily dual mode (bus/rail, rail/luas, bus/luas) tickets but no all-mode tickets other than an Annual version. I suspect that this boils down to the revenue model that is in use.