"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

MOH

cson wrote: »

Website: For something they spent €40m on they really could have come up with a better website for the project. Onerous to register, by that I mean if I can't register in 2mins its taking too long. Difficult to navigate to see where to top up and check your balance etc. Needs to be simplified; I wouldn't consider myself technically 'handicapped' for want of a better phrase but if its causing me a headache then I'm pretty sure it'll do the same for a lot of people.

If they spent 40 million on the project and ended up with that website, it's a bad joke.
Registration is really bad from a usability point of view.
e.g. Let's not use standard terms like 'Login details', let's call it 'Credential Information'.
Then let's change our mind on the same page and call it 'Security Information'. And then let's make it pretty much impossible to complete the form first time by expecting people to magically guess the password criteria, instead of telling them - resulting in the form being cleared and all the details needing to be entered again.

Why on earth do they need my date of birth when I register? Can only assume it's something to do with adult/child tickets, but seems like way too much information.

And then having registered I discover that online topup is non-existent, since I have to go to a shop anyway to collect it, and I may have to wait up to 48 hours?

What's with the language dropdown? Why are all the language names in English, instead of e.g. 'Nederlands' for 'Dutch' - any why Dutch anyway? Besides which all it seems to do is use Google translate to translate the page anyway, which isn't very professional. And the list of available languages changes depending what page you're on.

partyatmygaff

Speaking of idiotic website design...

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=Zk1kXuXjSAmKm4PZmr2wZB3Wfgg5muBAOtzUDB2WjQ9aj7n17vcc%2bKCQDK2%2fwDJHmmmBaDgh987lU62F30yF84i4VqUmgFkXDRaEZm3gf3OwoRQIzTCw4yyRPGaW6G3yN4OcqD428vNC8GTLZOXKG%2f3xNGMT7yBERZXOeD6VbF4%3d

Does anyone know what any of Irish rail's "Distance Categories" mean? It's the first time i've ever heard of it. All it says is "Full details available on irishrail.ie" and when you check out Irish Rail's website, they say "For full information, go to www.leapcard.ie".

Funnilly enough, according to Google the words "Distance Category" don't even show up once on Irish Rail's website.

Victor

MOH wrote: »

Why on earth do they need my date of birth when I register? Can only assume it's something to do with adult/child tickets, but seems like way too much information.

That it accepted my date of birth as being in the 11th century is another issue.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Speaking of idiotic website design...

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=Zk1kXuXjSAmKm4PZmr2wZB3Wfgg5muBAOtzUDB2WjQ9aj7n17vcc%2bKCQDK2%2fwDJHmmmBaDgh987lU62F30yF84i4VqUmgFkXDRaEZm3gf3OwoRQIzTCw4yyRPGaW6G3yN4OcqD428vNC8GTLZOXKG%2f3xNGMT7yBERZXOeD6VbF4%3d

Does anyone know what any of Irish rail's "Distance Categories" mean? It's the first time i've ever heard of it. All it says is "Full details available on irishrail.ie" and when you check out Irish Rail's website, they say "For full information, go to www.leapcard.ie".

Funnilly enough, according to Google the words "Distance Category" don't even show up once on Irish Rail's website.

That is content, not design!

See here: http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/fares_matrix.php

The Distance Categories / fare bands / fare code approximate with the distance between stations. However, this isn't perfect as Connolly, Tara Street and Pearse are treated as one station and there may be other anomalies.

foggy_lad

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Speaking of idiotic website design...

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=Zk1kXuXjSAmKm4PZmr2wZB3Wfgg5muBAOtzUDB2WjQ9aj7n17vcc%2bKCQDK2%2fwDJHmmmBaDgh987lU62F30yF84i4VqUmgFkXDRaEZm3gf3OwoRQIzTCw4yyRPGaW6G3yN4OcqD428vNC8GTLZOXKG%2f3xNGMT7yBERZXOeD6VbF4%3d

Does anyone know what any of Irish rail's "Distance Categories" mean? It's the first time i've ever heard of it. All it says is "Full details available on irishrail.ie" and when you check out Irish Rail's website, they say "For full information, go to www.leapcard.ie".

Funnilly enough, according to Google the words "Distance Category" don't even show up once on Irish Rail's website.

Some sections of the dart line cost more than others to use, I have seen a breakdown of the stages before very recently but my head being sieve-like I cant recall where it was.

Edit: it has just came back to me:) the last two pages of the NTA document outlining the increased fares breaks the dart and Maynooth commuter line down into zones.categories.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/Cie-operators-fares-increases-Dec-2011.pdf

Cookie_Monster

Another 7m to tack on to the price

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/another-euro7m-added-to-bill-for-leap-cardsleap-card-hit-by-delays-2981502.html

:rolleyes:

theskeptic

theskeptic wrote: »

UPDATE: I finally got a refund on the 4 January 2012 - I suppose that is not too long to wait considering intervening Christmas / New Year holidays. Unofficial postings have suggested that one of the ticket validating machines at Harmonstown was not working correctly and instead of tagging me off, tagged me on a second time and I incurred 2 max fares of e4.30.

Specifically with regard to Leap Card - their customer care did bounce me to Irish Rail who then bounced me back to Leap Card customer care who (presumably) then got IR to issue the refund. Going forward it would be good if Leap Card customer care acted as the front end to all Leap Card issues and dealt with IR, DB, Veolia as and when necessary.

theskeptic wrote: »

I topped up my Leap Card online with 20euro - giving a balance of 25euro. Screen asked me if I wanted to apply this top up at a Payzone outlet, Luas ticket validator or Irish Rail validator. I chose the Irish Rail option. The web site says it can take up to 48 hours for payment to go through (WTF?).

Over 48 hours later... I tried my Leap card in an Irish Rail ticket issuing machine in Clontarf Rd it didn't work (ok they kinda implied it would only work on ticket validator at gate). I went through gate and whey hey machine said my card had 25euro on it as expected. I got off at Harmonstown (2 stops away) and tagged-off - I saw the figure 16 flash past the validator and thought uh-oh... When I got home and looked up my Leap Card balance I got a screen saying that the balance on my card was 16.39euro - i.e. the trip from Clontarf Rd to Harmonstown had cost me >8.6 euro.

I contacted Leap Card customer care via email and they said that the excessive fare was an issue for Irish Rail and I should contact them! They said the balance can take 24 hours to update online - despite the fact that I checked the topup > 48 hours later and the trip DART trip > 24 hours later.

This has all the signs of a system that is NOT ready to be rolled out. Be warned: use Leap Card at your own risk. As for the promised future feature of being able to link the Leap Card to a direct debit - eh, no thanks...

I spoke too soon - I stupidly / naively thought the problem was fully resolved...

In order to claim my refund for the original overcharge I tagged on at Harmonstown on my way into work. A 10e refund was successfully added to my card. When I tagged off at my destination the correct fare for the journey was deducted. However on my return journey I was unable to tag off at Harmonstown and the system tagged me on a second time resulting in 2 max fares (2 x 4.30) being deducted from my card - i.e. the exact same problem as the original overcharge!

BTW: I have been successfully using Luas and IR smart cards for a number of years, so I do actually know how to tag on and off

In summary:

REASONS FOR USING LEAP CARD WITH IRISH RAIL

• You like to gamble - you might pay the correct fare or the maximum fare.
• You feel that the recent Irish Rail fare increase was not enough and that Irish Rail deserve more money.
• You don't mind keeping a small notebook with you and writing down the numbers that appear on the ticket validators ever time you tag on or off.
• The Leap Card has been in planning for over 10 years and it is understandable if it takes another few years to resolve any glitches in the system.

REASONS FOR NOT USING LEAP CARD WITH IRISH RAIL

• You cannot afford to pay the maximum fare for all rail journeys.

FYI: I have given up on Leap Card - it is simply not worth the expense or the hassle of constantly having to double check the amounts on the ticket validators.

Tarabuses

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Speaking of idiotic website design...

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=Zk1kXuXjSAmKm4PZmr2wZB3Wfgg5muBAOtzUDB2WjQ9aj7n17vcc%2bKCQDK2%2fwDJHmmmBaDgh987lU62F30yF84i4VqUmgFkXDRaEZm3gf3OwoRQIzTCw4yyRPGaW6G3yN4OcqD428vNC8GTLZOXKG%2f3xNGMT7yBERZXOeD6VbF4%3d

Does anyone know what any of Irish rail's "Distance Categories" mean? It's the first time i've ever heard of it. All it says is "Full details available on irishrail.ie" and when you check out Irish Rail's website, they say "For full information, go to www.leapcard.ie".

Funnilly enough, according to Google the words "Distance Category" don't even show up once on Irish Rail's website.

Are the fares quoted on that page the full fares or the Leap fares?

Carawaystick

foggy_lad wrote: »

Some sections of the dart line cost more than others to use, I have seen a breakdown of the stages before very recently but my head being sieve-like I cant recall where it was.

Edit: it has just came back to me:) the last two pages of the NTA document outlining the increased fares breaks the dart and Maynooth commuter line down into zones.categories.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/Cie-operators-fares-increases-Dec-2011.pdf

had a look at the fares, there doesn't seem to be any fare costing 4.30

Also, and this seems like the lack of ambition for the leap system as a whole
There are no leapcard fares granted for the 3/7 day rolling tickets, surely when the nta were deciding the ticket levels for the year, they'd agree a price, so when the tickets became available, the price would have been decided upon already.

noelfirl

Carawaystick wrote: »

Also, and this seems like the lack of ambition for the leap system as a whole
There are no leapcard fares granted for the 3/7 day rolling tickets, surely when the nta were deciding the ticket levels for the year, they'd agree a price, so when the tickets became available, the price would have been decided upon already.

Prepaid tickets for DB only increased last June. One would imagine following a yearly pattern that they will go up again this summer. It's not a stretch of imaginations to think that the NTA havn't (or at best are now) considered the price increase or approved them yet.

Africa

Ordered it yesterday. After reading this thread, I think ive made a critical mistake.

God public transport in the country is an awful rip off. Seriously, someone go burn down CIE...

robd

noelfirl wrote: »

It's not a stretch of imaginations to think that the NTA havn't (or at best are now) considered the price increase or approved them yet.

They don't have to. Prepaid tickets are outside their remit. Operator is free to do as they wish. Bit of a GUBU but there you go.

robd

Carawaystick wrote: »

had a look at the fares, there doesn't seem to be any fare costing 4.30

4.30 is the amount deducted when you tag-on at an Irish Rail gate.

noelfirl

robd wrote: »

They don't have to. Prepaid tickets are outside their remit. Operator is free to do as they wish. Bit of a GUBU but there you go.

They approved the last set of changes (which were May, not June, my mistake), unless it's just a rubber stamp exercise?

National Transport Authority Approves Fare Increase for Pre-paid Adult Dublin Bus Tickets

25th April 2011
The National Transport Authority has today approved Dublin Bus’ application to increase fares for adult pre-paid tickets by an average of 3.3%. Child and schoolchild prepaid tickets will not be increased in this move. The average increase across all ticket types is therefore 2.5% and is in broadly line with the increase in cash fares agreed at the beginning of the year. The increases will take effect from Sunday, May 1st.

• Full Dublin Bus Fare Increase Announcement
• NTA Consideration of Dublin Bus Fare Increase Application

Cathquig

I had heard from someone (not always a correect source) that luas smartcards can be swapped for these new leap cards. I can't see it mentioned anywhere. If anyone knows one way or the other could you lemme now please?

markpb

Cathquig wrote: »

I had heard from someone (not always a correect source) that luas smartcards can be swapped for these new leap cards. I can't see it mentioned anywhere. If anyone knows one way or the other could you lemme now please?

You're source is correct this time It's on the front page of the website, at the bottom left. The link is here.

You give them your Luas card serial number and they post out an empty Leap card. You can then continue to you use old card until the credit runs out - your credit is not transferred.

el flaco

Africa wrote: »

Ordered it yesterday. After reading this thread, I think ive made a critical mistake.

That sounds a tad melodramatic Jumping out of a plane without your parachute is a critical mistake. The card will work. If you hate it after using your credit just set fire to it/throw it in the bin.

Cathquig

Thanks for that

angel01

On a bus home this evening, a passenger wanted to go 1-3 stages and the bus driver charged him 1.45 and insisted there was no 1.25 fare :rolleyes: can't blame the guy for being so angry. The guy kept pointing at the fare price sheet but the driver wasn't having any of it.

Terrible service by DB on this one.

Ste.phen

angel01 wrote: »

On a bus home this evening, a passenger wanted to go 1-3 stages and the bus driver charged him 1.45 and insisted there was no 1.25 fare :rolleyes: can't blame the guy for being so angry. The guy kept pointing at the fare price sheet but the driver wasn't having any of it.

Terrible service by DB on this one.

How would the driver be able to charge 1.45? Surely the screen only has options for the leap fares once there's a valid leap card on the reader?

angel01

Ste.phen wrote: »

How would the driver be able to charge 1.45? Surely the screen only has options for the leap fares once there's a valid leap card on the reader?

He said it was programmed on his machine.. he did mention he would mention it to the garage but he insisted there was no 1.25 fare.

foggy_lad

angel01 wrote: »

He said it was programmed on his machine.. he did mention he would mention it to the garage but he insisted there was no 1.25 fare.

Another machine programmed wrong possibly?

If you use busses for longer journeys or change busses mid journey you are probably better with the travel 90 tickets. travel on as many busses as you want within 90minutes of the initial journey starting and all for €1.90. You could travel from Maynooth or Rathcoole into the city centre then out to Newcastle or Balbriggan and save yourself a furtune!

starviewadams

First day using mine today,worked grand on the right hand validator this morning,but wouldn't work on the way home this afternoon.Driver said that I have to register it online or it won't work,even though it worked grand this morning.

Got a free trip home out if it in anyways I spose!

Mr Simpson

starviewadams wrote: »

First day using mine today,worked grand on the right hand validator this morning,but wouldn't work on the way home this afternoon.Driver said that I have to register it online or it won't work,even though it worked grand this morning.

Got a free trip home out if it in anyways I spose!

You don't have to register it online, thats optional. Sounds like either a simple misread or a fault with the card or machine.

Stevek101

It never ceases to amaze me how much DB drivers are full of ****e. If they don't know what they are on about they shouldn't be passing on incorrect information.

Only the other day I was told how they are going to be forced to accept cash for top-u's. I'm assuming he heard something about auto top-up and came out with that outrageous ****e but of course he spoke with conviction.

foggy_lad

Stevek101 wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how much DB drivers are full of ****e. If they don't know what they are on about they shouldn't be passing on incorrect information.

Only the other day I was told how they are going to be forced to accept cash for top-u's. I'm assuming he heard something about auto top-up and came out with that outrageous ****e but of course he spoke with conviction.

Ah the age old art of fcuking with customers and creating wild rumours to bugger up the works, have you heard that conductors are coming back too along with the old bombardier buses:D

n97 mini

Got the 41 today at Drumcondra. Majority of people used cash, but probably a third had leap cards. Poor driver, obviously had fares (not fare stages) committed to memory. Then they upped the cash fares last week and introduced a 2nd set of fares for Leap. Seriously slowed down the boarding process as he was struggling to remember them all.

AlekSmart

angel01 wrote: »

On a bus home this evening, a passenger wanted to go 1-3 stages and the bus driver charged him 1.45 and insisted there was no 1.25 fare :rolleyes: can't blame the guy for being so angry. The guy kept pointing at the fare price sheet but the driver wasn't having any of it.

Terrible service by DB on this one.

Something,my dear Angel01,is'nt quite right here....

Was this a LeapCard or Cash Fare transaction you were observing ?,as it's not clear from your post.

There's no €1.45 Fare,either Cash or Leap...1-3 Stages are €1.40 Cash or €1.25 Leap.

Is it possible that Angel01,hear a conversation,or part thereof where a cash paying passenger spots the €1.25 Leap reference and asumes it's the old €1.20 increased to €1.25 ?

This,by the way,is happening to myself regularly as the reality of the 15% Cash Hike is taking a bit of time to impact on many passengers.

Could it be even remotely possible,that in this case,the Busdriver was correct ?

dublinman1990

n97 mini wrote: »

Got the 41 today at Drumcondra. Majority of people used cash, but probably a third had leap cards. Poor driver, obviously had fares (not fare stages) committed to memory. Then they upped the cash fares last week and introduced a 2nd set of fares for Leap. Seriously slowed down the boarding process as he was struggling to remember them all.

Really, how long do DB driver's ''extensive training'' on the leap card actually take when working. Presumably, either they must do the leap card training during their breaks OR they might do it when they come in to do a shift?

If fares by leap are already known by passengers rather than certain drivers that quickily, well then it could a big PR disaster for DB themselves, and more importantly the NTA.

Don't forget the flaws by Irish Rail too.

AlekSmart

Stevek101 wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how much DB drivers are full of ****e. If they don't know what they are on about they shouldn't be passing on incorrect information.

Only the other day I was told how they are going to be forced to accept cash for top-u's. I'm assuming he heard something about auto top-up and came out with that outrageous ****e but of course he spoke with conviction.

Perhaps Stevek101,but there is still some debate as to whether a Leap on-bus Top-Up facility will be enabled later this year.

This would,I suspect be of greater use in facilitating added products such as Ramblers/T90's rather than just simple e-purse credit.

I also have heard it being discussed/speculated upon by both Drivers and Passengers,as it would be quite beneficial,however the €5 minimum might be problematic for a coin-only system.

There is I understand no technical reason to prevent this,except a delay,until the Bus downloads each days data on return to the garage after close-of-business.

The Auto-Top up facility is a seperate issue,which incidentally,LeapCard will have great difficulty with unless it can demonstrate a far higher level of integrity and security.

But then again,if you know for sure it's shytte,then that's what it is.;)

AlekSmart

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Really, how long do DB driver's ''extensive training'' on the leap card actually take when working. Presumably, either they must do the leap card training during their breaks OR they might do it when they come in to do a shift?

If fares by leap are already known by passengers rather than certain drivers that quickily, well then it could a big PR disaster for DB themselves, and more importantly the NTA.

Don't forget the flaws by Irish Rail too.

Nothing to do with PR at all Dublinman1990,what this reads to me is a far simpler issue of a Driver unsure of the Fare Stages and most likely passengers with a very different interpretation of their Fare-Stages also...the inevitable outcome of a Fare-Stage system attempting to operate without the items being visible on-street.

The Training requirement is minimal,particularly as the TIM defaults to a Leap Fare Only screen when a LeapCard is presented..so there's little actual difference apart from the infernal slowness of the entire Leap Transaction from card presentation to (silent) fare deduction confirmation.

The individual Leap transaction is WAAY to slow,something which as it increases in penetration,is going to cause serious dwell problems for us all.

One other slight aside is the presence of a small number of "Floating" TIM units which were not programmed for Leap,but were in a service van,this could well be the source of some of the stories,these units however,will flag up as the Download process engages each night.