Is how much we drink a taboo subject in this country?

CDfm

fluffer wrote: »

Guess what. Its part of our culture. Irish people prefer to do their socialising with alcohol. I know it's tough to opt out, but you do have to deal with that fact.

A generalisation.

Some Irish people do and some don't , there are a horrible amount of people who go to each others houses and drink tea or coffee.

I have been at boards events where the majority of people there did not drink.

So maybe it is the people who drink do their socialising with drink.

MyKeyG

Your reaction has made my point. You got very defensive when the subject of peoples drinking was brought up. And it is all our business because the effects of alcohol abuse touch everybody. From physical violence, property damage, abuse - physical and sexual, massive medical bills that are footed by the tax payer.

And your opinion has more than proved my point. Of course I got defensive! You and those of your ilk won't rest until everyone who enjoys a drink is diagnosed as suffering from alcoholism and all get slapped with ASBO's! You will continue to rope all drinkers together as people who strive to get as drunk as they can and make life miserable for the poor non drinkers.

In any case I'm bored with the ridiculousness of accusation and ego on this board so I'm outa here.

Crystalset

MyKeyG wrote: »

In any case I'm bored with the ridiculousness of accusation and ego on this board so I'm outa here.

Cheers.

ArphaRima

A generalisation.

Some Irish people do and some don't , there are a horrible amount of people who go to each others houses and drink tea or coffee.

I have been at boards events where the majority of people there did not drink.

So maybe it is the people who drink do their socialising with drink.

A generalisation?? Really?! You think that Irish culture does not heavily involve alcohol?
I can't think of a major social event or celebration in Ireland that does not revolve around it. Even events for children involve it.

Think birthdays, christenings, confirmations, feddings, funerals, football matches, anniversaries, graduations; just about any major life event I can think of in Ireland involves alcohol in some form.

It has been part of ceremony, ritual, celebration and social meetings for many centuries if not millenia.
Just as tea has. I also like tea. For the 90% of the time the situation doesnt call for alcohol. Friday night out on the pull drinking tea doesn't quite cut it for most.

There is a reason that the pub serves primarily alcohol and that they are everywhere in Ireland. I think it is fair to say that in most instances cafes would be less plentiful or at least certainly less profitable.
I live in a country where it is very much the opposite. Tea and coffee are the preferred drink to socialise publicly. Alcohol is used by the younger generation and businessmen. How much you can drink is a source of huge honour and can mean signing a major contract or failing miserably. Irish people do very well; non drinkers do not.
A different culture, but alcohol serves a no less important role in a different way.

And it should be questioned when theres so many detrimental effects on society. Its not a case of somebody queitly drinking themselves into oblivion at home

Oh and I would very much question the guy drinking himself into oblivion at home alone over the guy out in a pub with his friends!

CDfm

fluffer wrote: »

A generalisation?? Really?! You think that Irish culture does not heavily involve alcohol?
I can't think of a major social event or celebration in Ireland that does not revolve around it. Even events for children involve it.

Its a fairly recent thing and I was surprised at the level of drinking when I returned to Ireland 'bout 10 years ago.

I had been away for a few years and drinking had taken off and it was very much a display of wealth with the celtic tiger.

Lots of events don't. An art exhibition is about the paintings or if you go to a play or a concert drink will play little if any of a part with it.





^^^

Thats you that is

It has been part of ceremony, ritual, celebration and social meetings for many centuries if not millenia.
Just as tea has. I also like tea. For the 90% of the time the situation doesnt call for alcohol. Friday night out on the pull drinking tea doesn't quite cut it for most.

I am sure sociologists would have something to say about it.

As for the guy who thinks he cant pull without drink may be just inept or shy.

I was at a beers and one of the guys , and I can't remember if he drank very little or nothing at all was just on the pull. He wasn't the best looking guy there.

Very funny to see this highly sexed little guy with a huge personality work the room. He was just hugely attentive and very engaging.

There is a reason that the pub serves primarily alcohol and that they are everywhere in Ireland. I think it is fair to say that in most instances cafes would be less plentiful or at least certainly less profitable.
I live in a country where it is very much the opposite. Tea and coffee are the preferred drink to socialise publicly. Alcohol is used by the younger generation and businessmen. How much you can drink is a source of huge honour and can mean signing a major contract or failing miserably. Irish people do very well; non drinkers do not.
A different culture, but alcohol serves a no less important role in a different way.

Its a perception. And the display at putting on a spread has probably got more to do with it than the amount drank. Do you ever think it is about the host being attentive and generous.

I judge an event by the finger food, the quality of the cocktail sausages, chicken gougons, and chocolate brownies.


All I can say is if I have a party at home I will stack up on wine and beer etc but thats more about being a host than anything else.

If you believe you need drink to succeed you might as well say you need your "lucky blue underpants".

Oh and I would very much question the guy drinking himself into oblivion at home alone over the guy out in a pub with his friends!

Lots of pubs rely on their regular heavy drinkers to keep the doors open.

ArphaRima

I honestly cant believe I'm reading this.
There is no argument to be had about the fact that Irish culture revolves around alcohol and that you are in the minority if you dont partake.

An art exhibition is about the paintings or if you go to a play or a concert drink will play little if any of a part with it.

Sorry every play I went to had a rush at the interval to the bar. I know people who cant remember any of the concerts they've been to. To say they are sober events is fantastical.
As for an art exhibition? Not exactly mainstream now is it? Nor even close to it.

Now back on topic. Is it taboo? No, there is a discussion right now.. Do I think some non-drinkers have an ill-placed air of superiority? Absolutely.

tunguska

fluffer wrote: »

I honestly cant believe I'm reading this.
There is no argument to be had about the fact that Irish culture revolves around alcohol and that you are in the minority if you dont partake.


Sorry every play I went to had a rush at the interval to the bar. I know people who cant remember any of the concerts they've been to. To say they are sober events is fantastical.
As for an art exhibition? Not exactly mainstream now is it? Nor even close to it.

Now back on topic. Is it taboo? No, there is a discussion right now.. Do I think some non-drinkers have an ill-placed air of superiority? Absolutely.

Non-aloholic events fantastical?? That says more about you and the way you live and see the world than it could about anybody else.
The taboo is in the reaction to the subject being brought up. Your reaction is all whirling arms and legs everywhere. You're so caught up in getting defensive and accusing people of being judgemental that you're not seeing that you've proved the point. You cant carry on a discussion because you think you're being attacked. You're not. like I said, nobody is judging anybody as being bad or less than or inadequate, its about the behaviour. Nobody is making a comment on who you are fundamentally.
And this notion that theres nothing wrong with going for one or two pints......thats the old card thats played when drink is discussed. As a nation we dont know how to have just one or two pints then leave it at that. People may say that they're only going for one or two pints on one night, but the next night they'll have a major blowout. The binge is always there. Out of all the people I've known in my lifetime I've only ever met one person who was genuinely capable of just having one or two pints then leaving at that. So maybe there are more of those people out there but I would doubt they're in the majority.

Ole Rodrigo

I agree with the OP - it is taboo to discuss excessive drinking in Ireland, probably because it would force many people to reflect on their own excessive habits, or the difficulties in their lives that it has directly or indirectly created.

It is part of culture in Ireland, and how we see ourselves as people - especially when abroad in my experience. The rationale that frequent drinkers use to justify it as being a great part of our culture is dismaying - and feeds the delusion that there is something special about us that no other nationality has. I myself gave up drinking 2 years ago, as a by product of giving up smoking - save for the odd glass of wine with food. Personally I think its a great way to live
and although i don’t judge anyone who does drink regularly, I do hope it will go the way our other once lauded and staunchly defended cultural habits like drink driving and avoiding paying as much tax as possible, and be relegated to a quaint curiosity for tourists. You might be familiar with a recent study that points to the damage excessive drinking does to society as a whole:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/11/01/us-drugs-alcohol-idUKTRE6A000O20101101

Maybe this is why it is taboo ?

To put it another way - if you knew that your perfectly legal habit was contributing to the degeneration of society as a whole (not to mention yourself), would you be happy to discuss it ?

Amtmann

I think it is a part of "our" culture, unfortunately. When I lived in Germany and mingled with expats from all over the world, often in Irish pubs, people would be visibly astonished when I said I didn't drink.

"What kind of an Irishman are you?", they'd ask me, and I'd glance over at the clique of Irish barflies at the other end of the room, who never mixed with anyone else. Meanwhile, rather than skulling pints, the group I was with would have dinner, some would have perhaps two pints over the course of the evening, and we'd all finish with a hot chocolate. There were always much more options socially in Germany than here, though. Here the pub and drink does dominate unfortunately, and if you don't like the pub scene, then it can be very hard to meet new people.

I think it's a shame that so many Irish people are shy and reserved when sober; it takes drink to get them out of their shells. There's a lot to be said for having German, French, or Spanish friends.

Sunnyisland

fluffer wrote: »

I honestly cant believe I'm reading this.
There is no argument to be had about the fact that Irish culture revolves around alcohol and that you are in the minority if you don't partake.


Sorry every play I went to had a rush at the interval to the bar. I know people who cant remember any of the concerts they've been to. To say they are sober events is fantastical.
As for an art exhibition? Not exactly mainstream now is it? Nor even close to it.

Now back on topic. Is it taboo? No, there is a discussion right now.. Do I think some non-drinkers have an ill-placed air of superiority? Absolutely.

I to believe that for the majority of people in Ireland its alcohol on which all our social lives is based around. Re if its taboo to talk about drinking yes imo as people get to defensive and has been said already think you are talking about there drinking.re non drinkers having an air of superiority about them well I don't,I still go out with family & friends and if there is any superiority its the drinkers who think you must drink alcohol to have a good time & laugh.

Ole Rodrigo

Tremelo wrote: »

I think it is a part of "our" culture, unfortunately. When I lived in Germany and mingled with expats from all over the world, often in Irish pubs, people would be visibly astonished when I said I didn't drink.

Yes, I had a similar experience while living in Australia, although I liked a pint or 2 at the time, my appetite would have been a lot less and I suppose interests different than other Irish I met. The Aussie attitude towards drink would have broadly been just a few with the barbecue, with the exception being problems of alcoholism in the Aboriginal communities.

Tremelo wrote: »

I think it's a shame that so many Irish people are shy and reserved when sober; it takes drink to get them out of their shells. There's a lot to be said for having German, French, or Spanish friends.

This is true. The continentals always seem to be a few steps ahead in their approach. Unless, of course, its collecting taxes in Greece. :pac:

Ole Rodrigo

realies wrote: »

I to believe that for the majority of people in Ireland its alcohol on which all our social lives is based around. Re if its taboo to talk about drinking yes imo as people get to defensive and has been said already think you are talking about there drinking.re non drinkers having an air of superiority about them well I don't,I still go out with family & friends and if there is any superiority its the drinkers who think you must drink alcohol to have a good time & laugh.

That's also my experience.

CageWager

I gave up the drink about 3 months ago after 10 years of being a weekend binge drinker and I have to say I've been shocked how much it has affected some of my friends. Every weekend now people are ringing me up saying "so are you drinking tonight", "a we'll get you back on the beer tonight" or the like. Some people seem intent on the fact that they can't enjoy themselves if one person out of the group is not drinking.

Now keep in mind that I'm an outgoing guy, I'd be cracking jokes whether sober or jarred so its not as if im sitting silently in the corner or anything. It amazes me the reaction im getting, in fairness some people are cool with it and dont mind (the majority) but there is still a few who have a real problem with it.

Im very aware that nobody likes a preacher and im very careful that if people ask why im not drinking i just say something along the lines of "im trying to get into shape" etc, but that inevitably gets the respones "so when can ya go back on the drink".

One night in a local pub the lounge girl even rolled her eyes at me when I ordered a red bull when the lads were on pints. Its mad how people think your some total sap if you're not milling the pints into you. I get that its a cultural thing and when one person isnt drinking then I guess others feel that they cant make a total tit of themselves and then the next day just think "ah sure everyone else was locked so it doesnt matter".

It's definitely a cultural thing as people before me have mentioned, I've also spent time living abroad and socialising is much less binge-centric, even if there's beers involved its not a race to see who can drink a slab and wash it down with a naggin.

If you want to go mad on the drink thats great, ive done plenty of that and I dont regret a single session or hangover. Theres no doubt, its great craic and some of the best nights ive had ive been smashed. But I needed to make a change and I have. Ive no issue with people who drink, so the ones who have a problem with me not drinking need to look at themselves and ask why they have this problem..

tunguska

Tremelo wrote: »

I think it is a part of "our" culture, unfortunately. When I lived in Germany and mingled with expats from all over the world, often in Irish pubs, people would be visibly astonished when I said I didn't drink.

"What kind of an Irishman are you?", they'd ask me, and I'd glance over at the clique of Irish barflies at the other end of the room, who never mixed with anyone else. Meanwhile, rather than skulling pints, the group I was with would have dinner, some would have perhaps two pints over the course of the evening, and we'd all finish with a hot chocolate. There were always much more options socially in Germany than here, though. Here the pub and drink does dominate unfortunately, and if you don't like the pub scene, then it can be very hard to meet new people.

I think it's a shame that so many Irish people are shy and reserved when sober; it takes drink to get them out of their shells. There's a lot to be said for having German, French, or Spanish friends.

Yeah I had the same experince in Germany, was a real eye-opener. The German people showed me that it didnt have to be the way it is here because up until that point I assumed that everybody in the world drank like us.

CDfm

fluffer wrote: »

I honestly cant believe I'm reading this.

Well it is a non drinkers forum so you would imagine the world view would be a tad different to your own.

There is no argument to be had about the fact that Irish culture revolves around alcohol and that you are in the minority if you dont partake.

Abstentionist would be roughly 20% of men & 25% of women and that has decreased in recent years

But

This result suggests that
among those consuming alcohol in Ireland, binge drinking is the norm among men and occurs
in about a third of the drinking occasions of women.

A
similar picture is found when the yearly number of drinking occasions is calculated; Ireland
has a mid position within the ECAS-countries, with 78 occasions per year for men and 46 for
women. Considering the high fraction of non-drinkers, these figures suggest that those who
drink in Ireland drink fairly often.

The stats back you up and those who do -do the dog.


http://www.meas.ie/easyedit/files2/irish-drinking-culture.pdf

But the down side is

http://www.hellolife.net/mens-health/b/the-effects-of-alcohol-and-erectile-dysfunction/

:D

Sorry every play I went to had a rush at the interval to the bar. I know people who cant remember any of the concerts they've been to. To say they are sober events is fantastical.
As for an art exhibition? Not exactly mainstream now is it? Nor even close to it.

I am saying there is a choice of events and going to a gallery might be a bit on the sober end of the spectrum.

You would expect problem drinkers at one end of the scale and abstentionist at the other.

20% of men & 25% of women abstain

28 % of Men and 13 % of Women drink heavily

50 % of Men and 60% of women are somewhere in the middle.

Now back on topic. Is it taboo? No, there is a discussion right now.. Do I think some non-drinkers have an ill-placed air of superiority? Absolutely.

Not me, if I go out to eat my OH will have a bottle of Merlot or a few erdinger.

A woman I know says alcohol plays havoc with her skin so yes vanity is a factor.

Guys say they are great in bed .

Lord TSC

Do I think some non-drinkers have an ill-placed air of superiority? Absolutely.

Some? Yeah, but frankly, I think most of the air of superiority works in the other direction. Non-drinekrs are mocked and torn into, and are nearly treated like second class citizens sometimes

There was a topic on After Hours the other day which asked for things to do on a first date with someone. The answers pretty much were all "drink, drink, drink". When I dared suggest it would be nice to have some non-drink related answers, two typical responses came back.

1. "You should start drinking".
2. "Stop being a dry arsed *****"

Yeah, there's a few non-drinkers who are doing it to feel superior. But the truth is that its the drinkers who constantly act as if the problem is with the non-drinkers. I don't know if thats an inferiority complex, but I know it leads me, and other non-drinkers I know, to feel like we're somehow the people who are doing things "wrong". I couldn't be arsed with what a drinker decides to do with their own time, but for some reason, a drinker can never seem to pass up the opportunity to tell me how stupid I am for what I've chosen.

CDfm

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I couldn't be arsed with what a drinker decides to do with their own time, but for some reason, a drinker can never seem to pass up the opportunity to tell me how stupid I am for what I've chosen.

Jaysus , Teamshadowclan , you don't half know how to make an entrance

The Black Oil

I don't know what lies behind our problem with alcohol in this country. No question that it's part of our cultural DNA at this stage. We seem to top, or regularly come close to, the top of European drink related surveys. Anyone else undertake one of these in school? Do they still do them? My school memories are of lads in my class making arrangements on where to get drink for the weekend. A bit of that is age related and mess acting, sure, but we seem to jump on board the alcohol train pretty quickly as a country. I don't want do knock anyone for having fun be it socially, family events or whatever, but it's our default cultural and social crutch, is it not?

In terms of non-drinker snobbery, I've not come across that kind of attitude, but I'm sure like a lot of issues, there are a few of them out there. I have come across the attitude in the 'beware' image CDfm posted, though.

Amtmann

Black Oil wrote: »

I don't want do knock anyone for having fun be it socially, family events or whatever, but it's our default cultural and social crutch, is it not?

It is, and it is crutch for many people. Ironically, though, it's more of a handicap to not drink, so twisted has the association become.

CDfm

Out at a family occasion with the OH recently her younger sister said she didn't know I didn't drink because I socialise.

I usually end up talking to an Uncle who sips whiskey and is a fairly laid back guy.

tunguska

CDfm wrote: »

Out at a family occasion with the OH recently her younger sister said she didn't know I didn't drink because I socialise.

I usually end up talking to an Uncle who sips whiskey and is a fairly laid back guy.

Thats it in a nutshell. Im sure your OHs sister is a nice person and didnt mean anything by what she said, but that seems to be the common consenses, socialising = must drink. Its like brainwashing. From as far back as I can remember I was led to believe that you have to drink, theres no other way. I know this will probably come across as condecending but I dont know any other way to describe my experience when I gave up the booze. It was like that film The Matrix, when Keanu Reeves finds out that he's been living in a fantasy, artifically created world for his entire life. He's then brought form that world into the real world and he sees things as they actually are. Thats how I felt when I stopped drinking, I felt like I could see the world and how it really was for the first time. Alcohol is like a buffer or a crutch, and its impossible to see what things are really like until you get rid of the buffer. I remember the first time I went to a pub after I'd stopped, I just looked around me and thought: Is this it, is this is how life really is? It seemed so bland and ordinary. I could see the reason why people drank, because the experience itself seemed to be too hard to bare sober. But after a while I adapted and saw that the experience itself, without the buffers, was enough. That the booze was completely unnecessary. I think you just have to hang in there for a while to see that. I know a fair few people that gave up drinking for a short space of time and hated it, but they just didnt give it long enough. Life itself is enough, nothing needs to be added on to make it enjoyable. The more you try to add on, to "enhance" the experience(with substances), the more you'll need to add again, its never enough.

CDfm

Its a bit like that , not drinking is associated with the pioneer movement etc and not with a cowboy boot , leather coat wearing guy who gets massages.

I sometimes go to boards beers and related to events and it is not an issue. Dav has pics of me clutching a handbag.( not mine).

So the only person who gets self conscious about it is yerself.

CDfm

And in the Indo this morning

Heroin use deaths soar but drink is main killer


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/heroin-use-deaths-soar-but-drink-is-main-killer-2953845.html