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Why is there no channel tunnel between Ireland and the UK?
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I think the Channel Tunnel's under-use for freight has been pointed out. It has to be a through route for such trains, not an under-channel "ferry" as it's currently being used. So don't say "statistics" when the factors that generate them are omitted.
I wasn't talking about the "statistics" of the Channel Tunnel between the UK and France. I was referring to the statistics of the hypothetical Channel Tunnel between Ireland and the UK. I might as well quote myself from another thread (with some hard statistics):patrickbrophy18 wrote: »There are certain aspects of this plan which could make it viable and others which won't. Let's start with the aspects that wouldn't make it viable:
1. The fact that the project is €15 billion in a conservative cost to construct. If the infrastructure is only serving those who go to London and back, it will obviously be unviable. Currently, the numbers doing this trip is 8,000,000 annually. It is pretty hard to grasp the idea of making the construction costs back without having high price fares attached. Let's assume the fares are €100. Even then, it would still take about 20 years at least to get the money back. Let's not forget that the these fares would also be taxed which would further delay the returns of the project cost bringing it up to 30 or possibly 40 years.
2. Another factor making the project unviable is the bail out of Anglo Irish Bank which is one of the governments high priorities. This would also put tax hikes on the fares system of the infrastructure in question.
3. Let's not forget the fact that the Irish Planning Board effectively took 5 years to receive the plans for Metro North and give it the green light. If this is the case and with the scale of The Tuskar Tunnel, it would probably be at least a decade before construction would begin from a conservative estimate.
4. As pointed out by other people, the current state of the national rail infrastructure is laughable with the mostly single track nature of it ergo, making it very difficult for sub-sea trains to reach their desired speed without some sort of delay. If the Tuskar Tunnel were to be built, it would have a knock on effect whereby most of the single track lines would have to be doubled or possibly quadrupled and then dual-gauged. By extension, this would bring the price of the Tuskar Tunnel project up to roughly €30 billion.
I am probably missing a lot of other factors against the proposal as well so feel free to enlighten me!
As I have said, there are certain purposes which could be attached to the proposal that might make it work. Might is the operative word in this case and a big one at that. Let me explain:
1. If the line became part of an extension to existing inter-rail routes, it might work. The may involve making a through route on the London side of things to remove the need to change trains. There may also need to be two types of passenger train, one which negotiates it's way to popular Irish tourist destinations and one which would be express for business customers.
2. If Galway or Shannon were to be used as one of the major trans-atlantic freight ports, the level of freight traffic could very well lead to extremely high use of the Tuskar Tunnel ergo, speeding up the rate of returns of its cost. This is assuming that other atlantic freight ports from France, Spain and England don't compete.
3. Also, from the Irish side, we would need to give potential foreign users an incentive to use the route. This may involve anything from the construction of Theme Parks along the rail route to seaside resorts like those seen in the Balearic Islands and Spain. However, these would need to be located in key locations. Otherwise, the train may end up taking to many stops which would be off-putting to potential users.0 -
No need for a tunnel, with the fast ferries travelling at 80kph, a train would likely be 160kph max, like in the eurotunnel.
A much much better way is to link up the boarding to the trains, so that you stop in the ferry, right on it. Somehow
A big problem is not the speed of the ferry, it's the aweful connection that requires a bus or a taxi from Dublin Port for example. A special train carriage that went from e.g., Connolly to the Port, and got *onto* the ferry, and then attached to another train at the other side would be sweet. Reduce the hassle, and number of changes.
They actually have that on the train from Germany to Denmark the train boards the ferry it works very well....0 -
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That is why we get taxis.Getting to a ferry at Dublin Port for boarding really is a ridiculously awful experience. Leaving the ferryport is worse and appears very dangerous. If you miss the bus then you have to walk for 30 minutes through a maze of roads packed with articulated lorries and container carriers and mostly theres no pathway on crucial sections of it either so you have to try darting down the road with your luggage while dodging terrible traffic which is banned from the rest of the city.I'll let the title speak for itself....surely this is long overdue especially as anyone who's ever used the eurostar will appreciate how handy and quick it would be and surely being even more connected to the UK and mainland Europe would be even more logical in a time of recession?
Now that one of the fast ferries is also gone temporarily at least with the stopping of the Dun Laoghaire route for the moment at least surely its time to look into this?
Fast ferries are on the way out, truck drivers and transport unions avoid them, they are very costly to run, and they are also prone to weather restrictions except for HSS which has almost ceased in cross channel crossings. HSS is so inefficient that they are often run at 2/3ds its full engine power capacity
If CIE / Virgin were to run a combined tunnel service to the UK it would also involve having to electrify the North Wales to Crewe line as they couldn't use DMU / DVT Diesel locos in the tunnel over that length, this alone would cost billions. Truck drivers would also avoid using the tunnel if it proved to be faster than the ferry.
I use to detest the slow ferry crossings to the UK but now with stabilized super ferries its a pleasure compared to the old days and the hassle and restrictions with budget airlines.0 -
Run_to_da_hills wrote: »That is why we get taxis.
I made the mistake of thinking it was an easy and short walk to the Liffey . Big mistake indeed especially when you don't know the way through the maze. I didnt think there would be roads like that with no pedestrian pathways so close to the city centre.0 -
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There is ways and means around that.The tracks are different in Ireland, British Trains wouldn't fit on Irish tracks and vice versa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiH4kt14yGwI made the mistake of thinking it was an easy and short walk to the Liffey . Big mistake indeed especially when you don't know the way through the maze. I didn't think there would be roads like that with no pedestrian pathways so close to the city centre.
I did the walk from the Stena terminal to the Luas at the Point Depot last tuesday night it took about 30 mins taking my time, there is a path all the way if you are taking the Alexandra Road, it involves two crossings with no pedestrian signals which can be dodgy in heavy truck traffic.
Getting up close to the idling 071 Loco with its graffiti covered freight wagons along Alexandra Road was worth the walk.
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Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
By both countries buying replacing all their trains so they can run on both? Sounds cheap :rolleyes:0 -
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Why is there no channel tunnel between Ireland and the UK Britain?
I could see a bridge being built in the distant future going between the Antrim coast over to Galloway on the south-west of Scotland, I would invisage a road/dual carriageway as being the obvious option, (instead of a rail corridor) which would have the complication of different rail guages, with 1600 mm (5'3") used in ROI/NI and 1435 mm (4' 8.5") guage as used in Britain! (tunnelling would be too expensive).
The thing that might spark off the reality is if Scotland leaves (or doesn't leave) the UK, if she does exit the UK then there may very well be the will to make closer links with the island of Ireland via the bridge, and on the other hand if Scotland stays in the UK then Westminster may bow to any & every request, including the funding of the bridge)
Either way, its a long term (but nice) pipe dream . . .0 -
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