Why is there no channel tunnel between Ireland and the UK?

colc1

I'll let the title speak for itself....surely this is long overdue especially as anyone who's ever used the eurostar will appreciate how handy and quick it would be and surely being even more connected to the UK and mainland europe would be even more logical in a time of recession?

Now that one of the fast ferries is also gone temporarily at least with the stopping of the Dun Laoghaire route for the moment at least surely its time to look into this?

Norwayviking

colc1 wrote: »

I'll let the title speak for itself....surely this is long overdue especially as anyone who's ever used the eurostar will appreciate how handy and quick it would be and surely being even more connected to the UK and mainland europe would be even more logical in a time of recession?

Now that one of the fast ferries is also gone temporarily at least with the stopping of the Dun Laoghaire route for the moment at least surely its time to look into this?

Probably because it costs a hell of a lot of money;)

colc1

I would be aware of how much it would cost alright....it would definitely be a good investment in the long term tho... plus very convenient for people even if it went through the north and the 13 miles across from there or whatever it is... Then again we dont ever plan ahead in this country so thinking long or even medium term might be too much to ask would it?

looksee

^^ also if you look at a map the distance between Ireland and Wales is over twice the distance of England to France at the closest point. The crossing to Larne is shorter but you end up in Scotland, which is not a lot of help for getting to the European continent.

I think there is also an issue with the geology - iirc there is a deep gorge in the Irish sea

smithwicks

Have you not seen 28 days later?

colc1

looksee wrote: »

^^ also if you look at a map the distance between Ireland and Wales is over twice the distance of England to France at the closest point. The crossing to Larne is shorter but you end up in Scotland, which is not a lot of help for getting to the European continent.

I think there is also an issue with the geology - iirc there is a deep gorge in the Irish sea

Yeah i heard something that before but I'm sure it was decided by experts that it could be done... Also realise it would be through the North alright too but I'm sure there would still be benefits with high-speed rail projects planned across the water in the future etc. Its a pain since the stena high-speed ferry was taking off with Dublin port being in an awkward area from an access point of view and all that...especially if you live on the southside of Dublin never mind south of the country....

colc1

smithwicks wrote: »

Have you not seen 28 days later?

No

Drimnagh Road

There is also the different guage in track.

However, can't see that been problematic. More than likely the tunnel would start in Dublin, and so a new (possible underground) station would be built close to the city centre. Customers would interchange with the Dart Underground to get to other rail stations to continue their journey.

Also, even if there wasn't a guage difference it would be unlikely that Irish Rail would show any initiative in joint up rail services, however lucrative. They don't do a very good job of it as is on the cross-border route.

smithwicks

colc1 wrote: »

No

Leaving yourself open to zombie attack, remember the issues getting salt for the snow last year? Imagine thousands of zombies marauding through the tunnel and the civil service trying to get organised.....

smcgiff

Even between two large countries like the UK and France the significantly shorter chunnel is being run at a serious loss. No way is this tunnel viable - nice and all as it would be.

Add to that we are broke and there is zero chance of this tunnel in the next 50 years - think it will eventually be done, just not sure which century.:D

Tazz T

well, considering we can't even afford a couple of miles of track to link the rail network to the airport...

colc1

smcgiff wrote: »

Even between two large countries like the UK and France the significantly shorter chunnel is being run at a serious loss. No way is this tunnel viable - nice and all as it would be.

Add to that we are broke and there is zero chance of this tunnel in the next 50 years - think it will eventually be done, just not sure which century.:D

Two larger countries sure but far fewer connections historically dont know about the loss situation bu the eurostar always seems to be popular when I'm on it and theres always a loss for the first while with these things and once air travel becomes less affordable for regular Joe there will be even more demand for it.... Broke at the moment yeah but our financial problems havent been helped in the past by a lack of planning ahead.

It would also bring in visitors in the long term any time big events are held in London or other parts of Britain... It may seem fanciful at the moment but I think for one thing a lot of people would be more inclined to come over here from northern England or Scotland if they had the option of a train ride as opposed to a ferry would people not agree? Plus as I said air travel is not going to become any more affordable and could well be out of reach for at least a lot of people within a relatively short space of time....

colc1

Tazz T wrote: »

well, considering we can't even afford a couple of miles of track to link the rail network to the airport...

More accurately we chose something else to spend it on instead... I think some of the reasoning for that was some people at least were suspicious that line was being built to line a few pockets whether true or not I dont know... Not that I would have been against it personally we've spent money on a lot more daft things over the years....

Judgement Day

OP - population wise it would make as much sense as building a tunnel between the Aran Islands and Galway. :rolleyes:

corktina

just how profitable do you think the eurotunnel is?

I'll tlll you, it's bankrupt. kept float by massive government rescue plans.

I'm sorry but anyone with any commercial insight would realise for them selves its a total non starter.

Cookie_Monster

who would drive or ship stuff all the way up to Scotland, through the tunnel and Back down to Dublin / Cork et anyway, rather than use the short and quicker ferry from Wales?

corktina

well i guess you'd build the tunnel from rosslaire to fishguard but you would have to factor in upgrading the line from dublin and in wales, all for what? a fraction of the traffic eurotunnel get and lose money on

overshoot

have ya seen the cost of a train?! still cheaper to fly. faster too, high speed line in france, none of that here or uk really, serious bother there trying to build one to manchester (or glasgow?)

n900guy

No need for a tunnel, with the fast ferries travelling at 80kph, a train would likely be 160kph max, like in the eurotunnel.

A much much better way is to link up the boarding to the trains, so that you stop in the ferry, right on it. Somehow

A big problem is not the speed of the ferry, it's the aweful connection that requires a bus or a taxi from Dublin Port for example. A special train carriage that went from e.g., Connolly to the Port, and got *onto* the ferry, and then attached to another train at the other side would be sweet. Reduce the hassle, and number of changes.

A tunnel would simply cut 99 minutes to probably 50-60 minutes. Save a half hour at most with acceleration and deceleration of the train. You'd save the same time by sorting out the boarding onto the ferry and exit to the train at the other side.

Cookie_Monster

^ that wouldn't work cos the gauges are different

CIE

colc1 wrote: »

I'll let the title speak for itself

By "Channel", do you mean "North Channel"?

South of there, you have the Irish Sea and the Celtic Sea, which are a good deal wider.

I'd say that the Eurotunnel Channel Tunnel between England and France is failing mostly due to not hosting enough freight. The "rolling highway" service (the USA would call it "piggyback") between Folkestone and Calais is just not enough. You need actual box cars, tanker cars, pellet cars, grain cars and just about everything else to travel through that tunnel, and for a significant distance.

DWCommuter

I love recessions. It brings out loads of socialists intent on suggesting grandiose schemes to create employment and economic stimuli. The best bit is that the conveniently forget, it has to be paid for.

A Tunnel? Sorry lads but Ryanair have it sewn up. Even the Ferries are struggling.

DWCommuter

n900guy wrote: »

No need for a tunnel, with the fast ferries travelling at 80kph, a train would likely be 160kph max, like in the eurotunnel.

A much much better way is to link up the boarding to the trains, so that you stop in the ferry, right on it. Somehow

A big problem is not the speed of the ferry, it's the aweful connection that requires a bus or a taxi from Dublin Port for example. A special train carriage that went from e.g., Connolly to the Port, and got *onto* the ferry, and then attached to another train at the other side would be sweet. Reduce the hassle, and number of changes.

A tunnel would simply cut 99 minutes to probably 50-60 minutes. Save a half hour at most with acceleration and deceleration of the train. You'd save the same time by sorting out the boarding onto the ferry and exit to the train at the other side.

That idea is bonkers as well.

Ever heard of a plane?

corktina

DWCommuter wrote: »

I love recessions. It brings out loads of socialists intent on suggesting grandiose schemes to create employment and economic stimuli. The best bit is that the conveniently forget, it has to be paid for.

A Tunnel? Sorry lads but Ryanair have it sewn up. Even the Ferries are struggling.

yep, Swansea Cork have gone again.

Chuck Stone

The Channel Tunnel was built in one of the worlds busiest channel crossings, incorporating a high speed rail link between to massive and wealthy cities and it's struggled.

How in the name of muppetry anyone could think a tunnel from Ireland to Wales is a viable proposition shows a distinct lack of forethought.

psychward

Tunnels, ships and planes will be redundant in a few hundred years anyway once we master point to point wormhole technology. Portable cold fusion generators should help make this possible. Teleportation ftw

Chuck Stone

psychward wrote: »

Tunnels, ships and planes will be redundant in a few hundred years anyway once we master point to point wormhole technology. Portable cold fusion generators should help make this possible. Teleportation ftw

One small problem.

It wrecks the cheese.

BigCon

What about a bridge?

Only 2.3 billion for this one - didn't the government lose and then find that much recently?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/06/30/137520889/china-opens-worlds-longest-bridge-would-you-cross-if-you-came-to-it

psychward

BigCon wrote: »

What about a bridge?

Only 2.3 billion for this one - didn't the government lose and then find that much recently?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/06/30/137520889/china-opens-worlds-longest-bridge-would-you-cross-if-you-came-to-it

In China they dont' worry about human rights and equal pay of immigrant workers, health and safety or climate change/environmentalism. It would probably cost 20 billion to build here. Then theres the penchant of our politicos for brown envelopes.

CIE

overshoot wrote: »

have ya seen the cost of a train?! still cheaper to fly. faster too, high speed line in france, none of that here or uk really, serious bother there trying to build one to manchester (or glasgow?)

The airlines get enough subvention for flights they don't make money on, and they don't pay out of pocket for the total cost of airports.

psychward wrote: »

Tunnels, ships and planes will be redundant in a few hundred years anyway once we master point to point wormhole technology. Portable cold fusion generators should help make this possible

Worms don't need fusion power to create wormholes. They just need bird-proof ones...

For the sake of at most two or three hours, it just isn't worth it!
Containers from mainland Europe will simply use the chunnel, go by train to Holyhead loaded onto lorries, drive onto a RORO ferry get off in Dublin and drive to final destination.


For a tiny fraction of the cost it would be if a tunnel was involved.