I am your public representative unless you are Black African

Davidth88

Interesting stance from Darren Scully in Naas

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fine-gaelrsquos-man-in-naas-i-wonrsquot-deal-with-black-africans-2941395.html

THE FINE Gael mayor of Naas, Co Kildare has walked into a storm of controversy after refusing to represent constituents of African origin.

Councillor Darren Scully said he made the decision based on what he described as the "aggressive" attitude he experienced when representations were made to him by black Africans.

Speaking to Kfm radio this morning, Cllr. Scully said he would refer any black African seeking assistance from him to another of his council colleagues.

"I have been met with aggressiveness and bad manners," he said. "I have also been met with the race card, (with people saying) 'Oh yeah, you will help white people, but you don't help black people.

"So after a while I made a decision that I was just not going to take on representations from black Africans, that I would be very courteous to them and I would pass on their query to other public representatives.

"Everything I do as a councillor is for the general good?It saddens me that people would call me a racist, because I'm not."

Cllr. Scully has stressed that this is his own view, and not that of Naas Town Council.

"I will listen to people's points of view. I take responsibility for what I say. I have been in trouble before for making comments. But I am only expressing my view and my opinion and maybe in politics we should have a bit more of that rather than playing it safe all the time."

Cllr. Scully, who has been a member of Fine Gael since the age of 18, is one of three Fine Gael representatives on Naas Town Council.

An engineer by profession, he lives in the town and is married with two children.

I am torn by this , one side of me says you are a public representative , you should represent all people from your area . The other side says, well if a certain section of soc acts badly towards you ,you can withdraw that service.

I wonder what would have happened if the same person had said that he wouldn't take representations from Travellers ?

hatrickpatrick

"I have also been met with the race card, (with people saying) 'Oh yeah, you will help white people, but you don't help black people.

Well, this new policy will certainly put an end to such scurrilous accusations, I'm sure :rolleyes:

RichardAnd

Very interesting. The article doesn't really make it clear why he's come to such a decision but it seems to be frustration with obstreperous blacks, at least that's what I can make out.

The thing about it is that no matter the reason, the guy will be shot down as a racist. Personally, I have no issues with blacks but I've heard plenty of stories to understand that many people do and for good reasons. Thus, it's impossible to know who's right here without more information.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

whatever his issues, he's a public servant. the mayors office isn't his private property, he has no right to just refuse service or shunt people off on his subordinates on the basis of their skin colour.

Di0genes

Davidth88 wrote: »

Interesting stance from Darren Scully in Naas

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fine-gaelrsquos-man-in-naas-i-wonrsquot-deal-with-black-africans-2941395.html



I am torn by this , one side of me says you are a public representative , you should represent all people from your area . The other side says, well if a certain section of soc acts badly towards you ,you can withdraw that service.

I wonder what would have happened if the same person had said that he wouldn't take representations from Travellers ?

Rubbish you cant' decide not to represent a huge swath of nationalities because of his experience with some of the community.

Oh_Noes

I just heard on the radio that Labour's Aodhan O'Riordan is reporting this to the Gardai under incitement to hatred laws.

Atomic Pineapple

While the percentage of aggressive or ill mannered people may be higher among the black community (through my own experience both in college and in work) than among the general white community I have also met some of the nicest people I know from the black community and letting those people down just because he doesn't want to deal with the aggressive ones is disgraceful for a public servant.

Davidth88

Di0genes wrote: »

Rubbish you cant' decide not to represent a huge swath of nationalities because of his experience with some of the community.

errrrr I didn't say you can. I said I was torn by it .

TBH , the more I think about it, the stance by Cllr Scully is totally wrong .

If he has certain people who are aggressive , then this should be dealt with on an individual basis .

You can't tar a whole section of the community because some people were aggressive towards you .

walshb

Well, mayeb ALL those he went to were aggressive, hence he can tar those as being aggressive and rude and unapproachable? It's human nature if you experience issues with a section of society that you won't be keen to repeat those experiences.

telecaster

Davidth88 wrote: »

You can't tar a whole section of the community because some people were aggressive towards you .

what a visionary you are

Beruthiel

He's a racist.
Maybe he did get some abuse from some black people, but you cannot tar a whole community with the one brush.
You deal with each case individually.
I'm pretty sure he's had some abuse from whites as well. Are they next to go?
Shocking behaviour from a public representative.

Davidth88

telecaster wrote: »

what a visionary you are

Im sorry ?

zyxwvu

draffodx wrote: »

While the percentage of aggressive or ill mannered people may be higher among the black community (through my own experience both in college and in work) than among the general white community I have also met some of the nicest people I know from the black community and letting those people down just because he doesn't want to deal with the aggressive ones is disgraceful for a public servant.

I'd agree with this. In my experience, Nigerians in particular are an aggressive, rude bunch..certainly more of them fit this description than I find with white Irish people.

alejandro1977

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I just heard on the radio that Labour's Aodhan O'Riordan is reporting this to the Gardai under incitement to hatred laws.

while I disagree with the comments I don't see incitement to anything, let alone incitement to hatred.

Kinski

Disgraceful. This is racism, pure and simple.

Itsdacraic

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

whatever his issues, he's a public servant. the mayors office isn't his private property, he has no right to just refuse service or shunt people off on his subordinates on the basis of their skin colour.

Bit rich coming from a guy with a burning black man as his signature.

AlekSmart

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I just heard on the radio that Labour's Aodhan O'Riordan is reporting this to the Gardai under incitement to hatred laws.

Knee-Jerk reaction to a knee-twitch methinks.....Mr Scully's statement certainly did'nt incite any hatred towards persons of a darker hue,what he did say was he would refer these people on to a different representative who would be more amenable to their needs.....pretty ok customer service from Scully there I'd venture ??

Aodhan O R really needs to ask if his Local Gardai need to allocate their scarce resources to investigating such inappropriate accusations ?

SamHarris

Rascism is a far bigger problem in Ireland than most Irish are comfortable acknowledging. The only reason it is not perceived as a major social problem is a result of the monoethincity of the nation, nothing more.

I have no doubt that if Ireland had anywhere near approaching the ethnic diversity of some European countries (or Christ forbid, the US) the social problems would eclipse those seen elsewhere for decades.

There has been numerous reports on the daily abuse black people undergo here, much less the travelers or Roma or even those of the same ethnicity but differnt background - British people, Americans, French all pop to mind. I really dread to think what people of middle Eastern descent have to put up with, given the last 12 years.

Even when that shocking report was released, however, there was little discussion on it. Irish people tend not to bring to much attention to their own shortcomings as a society (unless it can be laughed off, like aclohol) because it draws to much attention to them.

I love living here but I have noticed it for years now, Im sure this guys attitude is very reflective of alot of people throughout the country. Just think of the amount of taxi men that feel comfortable saying it to you. They are not inherently rascist, so try extrapolating that out to the rest of society.

SamHarris

AlekSmart wrote: »

Knee-Jerk reaction to a knee-twitch methinks.....Mr Scully's statement certainly did'nt incite any hatred towards persons of a darker hue,what he did say was he would refer these people on to a different representative who would be more amenable to their needs.....pretty ok customer service from Scully there I'd venture ??

Aodhan O R really needs to ask if his Local Gardai need to allocate their scarce resources to investigating such inappropriate accusations ?

Agree, its not illegal to be a rascist jerk. In Ireland anyway, I believe he may be prosecuted in several european countries however.

Fr Tod Umptious

Hope fully this will be Ireland's first big real race controversy

For too long we have lived thinking we are not a racist people.

BTW I disagree with the guys stance, cases should be dealt with on an a individual basis.
BTW some members of society are very quick to play the race card too.

pacquiao

Kinski wrote: »

Disgraceful. This is racism, pure and simple.

I don't think he think he's superior to them. He's just pissed off with black Africans in general. Call it what you will..

Kinski

AlekSmart wrote: »

Mr Scully's statement certainly did'nt incite any hatred towards persons of a darker hue,what he did say was he would refer these people on to a different representative who would be more amenable to their needs.....pretty ok customer service from Scully there I'd venture ??

So if you went to your local elected representative, and he refused to deal with you because of your ethnicity and passed you on to someone else, you'd consider that "ok"?

walshb

zyxwvu wrote: »

I'd agree with this. In my experience, Nigerians in particular are an aggressive, rude bunch..certainly more of them fit this description than I find with white Irish people.

And then you hear the lame excuse that we make for them. "Oh, no, that's just the way they are. They don't mean to be rude."

Anyway, I know black people who are lovely people, same as I know many white people who are lovely. Cannot tar them all. But, this guy has obviously had enough dealings with black African people to make him think that it is not worth it.

Gurgle

AlekSmart wrote: »

he did say was he would refer these people on to a different representative who would be more amenable to their needs.....pretty ok customer service from Scully there I'd venture ??

Seriously?
"I don't serve blacks but there might be somebody available who doesn't mind"

Thats your idea of customer service?

bijapos

He should simply have said that he will not deal with aggressive people of any kind, its nonsense to pin it down to one race of people. He is a public representative, he is there to represent all, if he doesn't like it he shoule leave public life.

As a comment coming from a Mayor it is hugely damaging to Naas, the wider area and the country in general, the story will travel and will possibly damage inward investment to the area. Google Naas, this story already comes up on the first page of answers for Naas.

FG ought to grip this one by the horns, he needs to be expelled from the party, the councillors of Naas need to act too, and if its legally possible remove him from the post of Mayor.

eigrod

"I hear you're a racist now, Cllr Scully !"

MungBean

walshb wrote: »

And then you hear the lame excuse that we make for them. "Oh, no, that's just the way they are. They don't mean to be rude."

Anyway, I know black people who are lovely people, same as I know many white people who are lovely. Cannot tar them all. But, this guy has obviously had enough dealings with black African people to make him think that it is not worth it.

The issue is that he will refuse to deal with a polite and lovely member of the community because of the fact that they are Black African.

You cannot discriminate against people in a community when you are in a position such as his, you have to deal with each individual member of the community on their own merits.

He is well within his rights to refuse to deal with rude aggressive people but not to prejudge who they will be based on their skin colour and their nationality in an attempt to avoid it.

walshb

MungBean wrote: »

The issue is that he will refuse to deal with a polite and lovely member of the community because of the fact that they are Black African.

You cannot discriminate against people in a community when you are in a position such as his, you have to deal with each individual member of the community on their own merits.

He is well within his rights to refuse to deal with rude aggressive people but not to prejudge who they will be based on their skin colour and their nationality in an attempt to avoid it.

Yes, I agree. He made his bed and he should lay in it. I can still see his point, but, as mentioned, he is a Public Rep and as such he has to take the rough with the smooth. And, that's the black and white of it!

Suryavarman

Fine Gael have issued a statement on the matter. It leaves something to be desired but it will be interesting what direction this takes.

raymon

Someone expressing these public views should be expelled from any political party.

FG should act swiftly

AlekSmart

Kinski wrote: »

So if you went to your local elected representative, and he refused to deal with you because of your ethnicity and passed you on to someone else, you'd consider that "ok"?

If the representative he "passed me on to" proved to be capable and able to deliver the goods,then I'd be cool with it.....It's results I'd be interested in rather than who eventually delivered them.

eoin5

Hes just too lazy to come up with a better way of dealing with those people. Poor show.

wes

IMHO he should lose his job (and not go to court for incitement), as you can't just decide to not to represent a certain race.

Ellis Dee

Davidth88 wrote: »

Interesting stance from Darren Scully in Naas

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fine-gaelrsquos-man-in-naas-i-wonrsquot-deal-with-black-africans-2941395.html



I am torn by this , one side of me says you are a public representative , you should represent all people from your area . The other side says, well if a certain section of soc acts badly towards you ,you can withdraw that service.

I wonder what would have happened if the same person had said that he wouldn't take representations from Travellers ?

Or if he had been approached by a particularly obnoxious and pushy person belonging to, let's say, the Jewish community and had found the experience so unpleasant that he decided to announce he would henceforth no longer deal with any Jews?:rolleyes: Not only would Fine Gael already have given him the bum's rush, which he thoroughly deserves, by now, they would be busy trying to airbrush him out of the party's history as well.:eek:

If you are a public representative, and no one forced him to become one and accept the rewards that he gets for it, you must judge everyone as an individual. To refuse services, to which they are entitled, to an entire group based on the actions of one or several members of that group is discrimination, shameful, racist and inexcusable. Not only is he a racist, he is also an idiot.:mad:

People like Scully have no place in Irish public life. We already have far too much casual, ignorance-, pettiness- and envy-based racism among certain segments of the population. If a public representative like him can say what he said and not be called to heel for it, it marks a new and worrying development in our political life and can only give encouragement and legitimation to the nasty racist elements in Ireland who indulge in collective hate.:rolleyes:

alejandro1977

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Or if he had been approached by a particularly obnoxious and pushy person belonging to, let's say, the Jewish community and had found the experience so unpleasant that he decided to announce he would henceforth no longer deal with any Jews?

By now? get a grip - it's just happened. Feel free to back up your point with evidence - and smilies don't count

walshb

BTW, his views on black African people in Ireland are held by many people who have had dealings with them. Like it or not their reputation is bad, and that is down to people's experiences with black African people. Me personally have not had many dealings, and the ones I have had have been ok. But, him being in this position and coming out with this view is off the mark. He may well be coming across as being blunt and honest, but sometimes in public life one needs restraint and diplomacy.

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

......... He may well be coming across as being blunt and honest,............

...or he may not. At all.

Does anybody have an idea of the size of the African population of Naas (as a percentage of the whole)?

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

...or he may not. At all.

Does anybody have an idea of the size of the African population of Naas (as a percentage of the whole)?

Yes, he may well just be racist. Nobody knows really but him. It doesn't look good for him, although, with how easy the race card is bandied about these
days I guess we could sympathise with him.

Percentage of black people, or black African people in Naas? I would say 5/100? Would that be a national average? Maybe less.

Wiki: The 2006 Irish census recorded 40,525 people of Black African ethnicity. Now, that is the official, so one must consider
that most likely there were more then, and are more now. So, 60,000, which is less than 1.4/100.

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

Yes, he may well just be racist. Nobody knows really but him. It doesn't look good for him, although, with how easy the race card is bandied about these
days I guess we could sympathise with him..

If you say that you will not deal with 'white people' you're a racist. If you said 'brown Americans', you're a racist, and if you say 'black Africans', you're a racist. No ifs, no buts, nada.

walshb wrote: »

Percentage of black people, or black African people in Naas? .

Black african people in Naas. Not a guess, but the figures. I'm intrigued to know how and why the good mayor is so put upon by them that he needs to hang himself publically.

Fratton Fred

I really fail to see what thje debate is.

A mayor has said he will not represent people on the basis of their ethnicity.

That is discrimination based on grounds of race.

He should resign or be sacked, that is a disgusting position for an elected representative to take.

Google Gold

In uniting a country like Ireland with the whole world there will be inevitable new social conflicts.

I'm sure he doesn't care if he's called racist from the African's I can just imagine a situation The African man is starting to talk to loud then he start's shouting or whaling, the mayor asks for some peace the african give's none the mayor walks away the african call's racist!

If it was such a respective case where the mayor was first branded as been racist against African's. Then why when he decides not to represent a group that he perceives to be openly aggressive against his political career does he get all this stick for.

Pride Fighter

This 'person' if he can be described as such should be barred from holding public office and jailed. There should be zero tolerance for racist pigs.

djpbarry

walshb wrote: »

BTW, his views on black African people in Ireland are held by many people who have had dealings with them. Like it or not their reputation is bad, and that is down to people's experiences with black African people.

Is it? How can you be sure? Couldn’t we just as easily put it down to urban myths?

walshb wrote: »

Yes, he may well just be racist. Nobody knows really but him. It doesn't look good for him, although, with how easy the race card is bandied about these
days I guess we could sympathise with him.

The guy is refusing to deal with an entire race of people – how could he possibly considered to be anything other than racist?

walshb

Nodin wrote: »

If you say that you will not deal with 'white people' you're a racist. If you said 'brown Americans', you're a racist, and if you say 'black Africans', you're a racist. No ifs, no buts, nada.



Black african people in Naas. Not a guess, but the figures. I'm intrigued to know how and why the good mayor is so put upon by them that he needs to hang himself publically.

Well, one will just have to ask those in power in Naas to come up with the figures. Anyway, the figures are irrelevant. Even the official census figures are still a guess, albeit an educated one. Like mine! Ha! He just doesn't like dealing with them due to what he experienced with them.

BTW, I am well aware of what a racist is, or is perceived to be. It still is open to debate and is subjective.

Pardon the pun, but it's not black and white. A lot of it has to do with personal experience.

One just has to look at when the race card is thrown out to realise that many people do not understand the term racist.

This man's comments I would consider not very good. He will be hard pressed to explain them.

Suryavarman

Pride Fighter wrote: »

This 'person' if he can be described as such should be barred from holding public office and jailed. There should be zero tolerance for racist pigs.

Jailed? Fair enough he should lose his job over this but jailing somebody for having an opinion is a bit extreme.

djpbarry

Google Gold wrote: »

I'm sure he doesn't care if he's called racist from the African's I can just imagine a situation The African man is starting to talk to loud then he start's shouting or whaling, the mayor asks for some peace the african give's none the mayor walks away the african call's racist!

Refusing to deal with one particular rude or aggressive individual is in no way racist. Subsequently refusing to deal with anyone of the same skin colour as said individual is the very definition of racist.

walshb

djpbarry wrote: »

Is it? How can you be sure? Couldn’t we just as easily put it down to urban myths?
The guy is refusing to deal with an entire race of people – how could he possibly considered to be anything other than racist?

Urban myths? Well, when many, some or few people are verbally saying things and expressing their views I wouldn't call that an urban myth.

anymore

Pride Fighter wrote: »

This 'person' if he can be described as such should be barred from holding public office and jailed. There should be zero tolerance for racist pigs.

Come on for Gods sake - it is a bit of a storm in a tea cup !
Is it racist to have 'Councils for Immigrants' funded by the taxpayer ?

Pride Fighter

Suryavarman wrote: »

Jailed? Fair enough he should lose his job over this but jailing somebody for having an opinion is a bit extreme.

Incitement to hatred is a crime. Also jailing sets an example for all the wannabe Nick Griffin's and Adolf Hitler's.

professore

So he's basically saying every black person in his constituency is ignorant and rude, even the ones he's never met. And people are defending him as not being racist. If that's not racist, then what is?

Will he say the same if he has to be seen by a black doctor in Naas hospital? Or meeting with the previous lord mayor of Portlaoise down the road?

These are the people who had the "talk to the foreigners in your office day" campaign a few years ago, while the public sector is the most ethnically homogeneous workplace in the country.

It is ****ing pathetic that people on here are trying to defend him.

I'm sure he will be retired on full salary or offered a job on some race relations quango knowing how pathetic this country has become.

Mycroft H

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/naas-mayor-who-wonrsquot-deal-with-black-africans-may-quit-2941395.html


The radio interview is at the bottom.

I think there will be many politicians and furthermore ordinary citizens who would agree with him privately but publicly he is in the middle of a ****storm at the moment. There is many people who are very quick to pull out the race card in this country