Pit bulls.

RosieJoe

youtube! wrote: »

I would just like peoples opinions on this breed of dog. I cannot say I have had any negative experiences with PBT myself but they do seem to have a very bad rep.

I have 2 dogs,both rescue animals and when I take them out and let them off the lead for a run I am always scared that they would encounter a PBT. Whenever I do see someone with a PB, I immeadiately put my dog back on their leads,and yet I dont worry when it is a Lab or a German Shep or even a Rottie.

The lady whom I got the dogs from told me they are only bred for attack and in reality cannot be trained, she also said they are the only breed she would refuse to take into her animal rescue centre.

Am I over reacting, is it media hype that has me thinking this way,or am I correct not to trust these dogs?

Have only skimmed over this thread and I just wanted to highlight what is in bold and the preliminary results from research done by a Cork County Council Vet Inspector, see here

Amazing what hype can do to a person's perception.

seamus

youtube! wrote: »

The lady whom I got the dogs from told me they are only bred for attack and in reality cannot be trained, she also said they are the only breed she would refuse to take into her animal rescue centre.

My Staffie has been trained so that when I see someone and tell the dog, "Go get em!", she sprints over fast as she can and then leaps onto her back for the person to rub her belly.

No, not really, she just does that all on her own. Worringly though, this attitude is all too pervasive in rescue organisations. I even know one place where staff have to tell management that, "No, she's a staffie", whenever a pitbull comes in for rehoming.
Scary really that even people who work with animals on a day-to-day basis can't see the irrationality of breed stereotyping.

Like you would do with humans, each dog needs to be evaluated based on its specific personality, history and upbringing. And just like humans, racial profiling in dogs leads to incorrect conclusions and dogs needlessly suffering because of someone's inbuilt prejudice.

portgirl123

Doom wrote: »

A knackers dog, generally seen with chicken sh1ts, to make them look tougher.
If you ever hear about a dog mauling someone its one of these or a cross of one.

excuse me! i would like a appology, i am not a knacker, im a woman of a certain age with kids and grandkids. i had my pitty till just over a yr ago, sadly she died of old age. not a more gentle dog would you find. i dont need any dog to make me look tougher, thank you very much. i choose this dog 11 yrs ago because she was such a beautiful little thing. best dog i have ever owned. sooooooooo gently and sweet even when she was a pup. also she loved all other dogs. i will be getting another when i find one.

portgirl123

youtube! wrote: »

I guess it true about the owners to a degree, but is it not a fact that these dogs were only ever bred for fighting? Also dont they have lock jaws? Thats a pretty scary thought.

I just have a fear,irrational or not,that one day one of my dogs will be destroyed by one of these animals.

The lady in the aniaml rescue centre said she would trust any breed, even a staff,but not a Pit bull.

i would love to know who this LADY is, cos i for one would be giving her a piece of my mind. a person who is supposed to be helping dogs scare monger like this. some rescue person she is.
as for locking jaws thats a load of s**te

portgirl123

youtube! wrote: »

See thats what scares me! A fearless dog who will fight its corner AND has powerful jaws would destroy my little dogs! Do you get where I am coming from??

no i dont, any time i was out with my girl i always made sure when we passed someone she was always put back on her lead. cant count the amount of times that she was annoyed/attacked by small dogs, usually jacks/yorkies. god love her all she used to do was look at me with her big eyes as if to say, please help me

Whispered

youtube! wrote: »

The lady whom I got the dogs from told me they are only bred for attack and in reality cannot be trained, she also said they are the only breed she would refuse to take into her animal rescue centre.

Which animal care centre?

youtube!

portgirl123 wrote: »

no i dont, any time i was out with my girl i always made sure when we passed someone she was always put back on her lead. cant count the amount of times that she was annoyed/attacked by small dogs, usually jacks/yorkies. god love her all she used to do was look at me with her big eyes as if to say, please help me

I think it has been made clear enough to me by the good folk on this thread that PBT are no more dangerous than any other breed and in general more docile than most, I have been educated, fair enough. But the sad fact remains that the vast majority of owners of these type of breed that I have seen on a regular basis are track-suit,hoodie wearing scanger types whom I wouldnt trust an inch to train an animal. Now they may well be very nice young chaps who just choose that attire so sorry for my predjudice but I think we are all wise enough to know that a lot of these hoodie wearers are not exactly the most responsible owners.

As another poster pointed out it is wise to just put my dog on the lead when ANY dog approaches...simple courtesy, and I am sorry if my observations offend the good people on this thread who I know are responsible owners but I see what I see,and that just a fact I am afraid.

However in general my fears have been allayed.

One more thing she said to me with regard to PBT was that they simply HAD to be trained to be docile because their Natural state was to be aggressive, she said the same however about a few other breeds, dont jump down my throat its just what I was told, i dont actually subscribe to it my self,at least not now after the advice received here.

portgirl123

youtube! wrote: »

I think it has been made clear enough to me by the good folk on this thread that PBT are no more dangerous than any other breed and in general more docile than most, I have been educated, fair enough. But the sad fact remains that the vast majority of owners of these type of breed that I have seen on a regular basis are track-suit,hoodie wearing scanger types whom I wouldnt trust an inch to train an animal. Now they may well be very nice young chaps who just choose that attire so sorry for my predjudice but I think we are all wise enough to know that a lot of these hoodie wearers are not exactly the most responsible owners.

As another poster pointed out it is wise to just put my dog on the lead when ANY dog approaches...simple courtesy, and I am sorry if my observations offend the good people on this thread who I know are responsible owners but I see what I see,and that just a fact I am afraid.

However in general my fears have been allayed.

One more thing she said to me with regard to PBT was that they simply HAD to be trained to be docile because their Natural state was to be aggressive, she said the same however about a few other breeds, dont jump down my throat its just what I was told, i dont actually subscribe to it my self,at least not now after the advice received here.[/QUOT
could you pm who she is?

Whispered

portgirl123 wrote: »

could you pm who she is?

And me too please, I'd hate to think that I in some way support such a rescue.

youtube!

Sorry but i am not going to name the woman or the rescue centre.

Whispered

youtube! wrote: »

Sorry but i am not going to name the woman or the rescue centre.

That is unfortunate, it's quite worrying to think that people could be supporting a rescue who give out such advice.

Your call of course, but worrying all the same that someone who should know better would say something like that.

ppink

I saw a programme once about pitbulls being used in some states in the US as search and rescue dogs!

Wibbs

There's an awful lot of guff about these dogs and others on the restricted breed list. The famed bite strength of Pitbulls being one of them. Many dogs not on the list have higher bite forces. A bull mastiff(on the list) has nearly double the bite force and about the strongest in common domesticated breeds. Something like a Kurdish Kangal has around the same force as a lion. I'd not be surprised to find out a large Lab had a similar bite strength to a pitbull. Bigger dog, bigger jaws, bigger bite. I'd be gobsmacked to find out a large husky breed wouldn't be higher. It's largely down to size and size of jaws that do the damage. Any large dog is capable of being very dangerous if aggressive or more to the point usually made that way by a stupid owner. While high prey drive and the like are part of it, the owner and the perceptions of the owner I reckon are two thirds of it. If tomorrow retrievers were in a movie as ultimate fighting dogs dickheads would have them and people would be more afraid of them. Both situations would likely increase the number of attacks.

TooManyDogs

ppink wrote: »

I saw a programme once about pitbulls being used in some states in the US as search and rescue dogs!

Me too! On the program I saw one mountain search and rescue women would only have pitbulls because she said they would keep searching no matter how cold/tired/sore they were, partly because they've got amazing endurance and pain thresholds but also because they're such people orientated dogs that all they want is to find the person.

ppink

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Me too! On the program I saw one mountain search and rescue women would only have pitbulls because she said they would keep searching no matter how cold/tired/sore they were, partly because they've got amazing endurance and pain thresholds but also because they're such people orientated dogs that all they want is to find the person.

Yes thats it! It was brilliant to see them so enthusiastic for their task, their big smiley heads searching like mad:D

chris139ryan

Wibbs wrote: »

There's an awful lot of guff about these dogs and others on the restricted breed list. The famed bite strength of Pitbulls being one of them. Many dogs not on the list have higher bite forces. A bull mastiff(on the list) has nearly double the bite force and about the strongest in common domesticated breeds. Something like a Kurdish Kangal has around the same force as a lion. I'd not be surprised to find out a large Lab had a similar bite strength to a pitbull. Bigger dog, bigger jaws, bigger bite. I'd be gobsmacked to find out a large husky breed wouldn't be higher. It's largely down to size and size of jaws that do the damage. Any large dog is capable of being very dangerous if aggressive or more to the point usually made that way by a stupid owner. While high prey drive and the like are part of it, the owner and the perceptions of the owner I reckon are two thirds of it. If tomorrow retrievers were in a movie as ultimate fighting dogs dickheads would have them and people would be more afraid of them. Both situations would likely increase the number of attacks.

never heard of the kurdish kangal so i looked it up, holy god what a dog :O would love to see one in person. sorry for going off the point of the pbt but i just had to comment on that kurdish kangal

LucyBliss

youtube! wrote: »

One more thing she said to me with regard to PBT was that they simply HAD to be trained to be docile because their Natural state was to be aggressive, she said the same however about a few other breeds, dont jump down my throat its just what I was told, i dont actually subscribe to it my self,at least not now after the advice received here.

Two of my dogs are part Staff. In my experience, their natural state is to find a warm comfortable spot for them to fall asleep in. And if a person is there to curl up beside, so much the better.

Fence_

To be honest, when I'm out with my dog, if I see any pit-bull type dog off lead I am more apprehensive that if it was a lab. Same if the dog was a GSD, rottie, or any of the so-called dangerous breeds. Not because I think that the breed itself is dangerous, but because those sort of dogs are, unfortunately, more likely to have bad owners.

So, yes, down to the owner, but I think that you do have to be aware that certain breeds are often bought as status symbols and so may not be socialised/trained properly.

Of course, I also worry that my brat is going to go jump all over this other dog a provoke something, but that's something we are working on, she is still learning.

Latatian

When I'm out walking I generally don't mind the young fellas with their on-lead 'tough dogs', it's the adorable or harmless-looking dogs I'm more worried about. At least a status dog usually gets lots of walks (no use having an accessory dog like that if you don't walk around and look tough with it) and gets kept on a good strong leash or chain.

Not a "he's friendly, he just growls a bit but he's a softy" dog whose owner believes that a labrador/tiny dog etc can't be aggressive, or that it's cute/hilarious when the dog's aggressive because it doesn't look scary, or that small dogs should be walked once a month when the moon is at the right phase.

belongtojazz

In my experience I am more worried when I see a lab off lead than a staffy or any of the bull breeds... My little lady has been seriously attacked twice by my neighbours lab and snapped at by a couple of other lab types on walks. She has NEVER been approached in an aggressive manner by any bull breed.

Wibbs

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Me too! On the program I saw one mountain search and rescue women would only have pitbulls because she said they would keep searching no matter how cold/tired/sore they were, partly because they've got amazing endurance and pain thresholds but also because they're such people orientated dogs that all they want is to find the person.

That said the Italian services use wolf dog hybrids(Lupo Italiano) in that role, as do a few of the former soviet bloc countries(Czech Wolfdogs) and I'd not recommend one of those to rank beginners*. In those cases they use them because they're independent, have mad endurance and like their wild cousins have better scent tracking than bloodhounds. The Russian customs/anti terrorist services use dog/jackal crosses(Sulimovs) for their crazily superior scent capabilities for similar reasons and I'd not exactly be quick to suggest these as easy going lazy family pets sitting at your feet.

Fence_ wrote: »

So, yes, down to the owner, but I think that you do have to be aware that certain breeds are often bought as status symbols and so may not be socialised/trained properly.

This in a big way. Like I said earlier my humble would be that it's 20% breed and 80% perception and that perception makes allowances for the breed which propagates the individual breed idea.

Classic example would be small 'nippy' toy breeds. Because they're small and cute they get away with stuff a bigger breed wouldn't. JRT jumps on your lap and growls at strangers? "Ah he's soooo cute he's protecting me". Cue lots of petting and cooing noises and reinforcement. Versus... German Shepherd jumps on your lap and growls at strangers? "Ohhh Jesus! Killer dog!!!!!". Cue panic stations with arms flailing about. Both dogs, within a tiny genetic percentage of each other - hell a wild wolf is different by way less than 1% - but very different reactions and reinforcement for the dog. And owner and you get a feedback loop.

So people who think Pitties are cute slobber monsters(actually pretty true ) get cute slobber monsters. People who think Pitties are full on "I've got a small example of wedding tackle, so over compensate with a dog" attack monsters get small penis attack monsters. The dog picks this up. He or she wants to fit in. They want to be part of the pack**, part of the family, so picks up on the owners vibes and acts accordingly. So in one way I'd be slightly more wary of a Pittie and other such breeds. Easy way to tell? Look at the owners. Family daftly hugging and kissing ______ (insert breed here)? Cool and the gang. Tosser marching along overcompensating? Even a Spaniel might be a worry.







* though there's an equivalent amount of shíte talk all over the place on both sides about such dogs too.

** not in dominance Cesar Milan way