Office of An Coimisinéir Teanga to be Closed.

Godge

The Official Languages Act should be suspended for the next four years because of the financial situation.

During that time, a review of the extent to which the Irish language services already provided were used by the general public should be carried out and the results used to inform the future of the OLA.

I believe that one of the effects of the OLA has been to reduce the supply of qualified Irish teachers to second-level schools as they have all gone into translation instead.

Permabear

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BlaasForRafa

They should get rid of Udaras while they're at it and cease funding TG4. Its time for the extravagant funding of services for a minority language to cease.

Lord TSC

While we're discussing figures, was there info on the census as to how many people classified (off the top of my head) Chinese as their first language? Should we, if the figures are higher (and I have an inkling they would be) fund an office whose role is to force the translations of all documents, road signs, stationary etc into Chinese as well?

cytex

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That's just for report translation. It does not include telephone, written and online services where people demand o transact in Irish even though they have perfect English.

Why does it matter if the have perfect English. They have a constitutional right to speak Gaeilge . The cominisinéir Teanga office is the only department that you could go to so that this CONSTITUTIONAL right could be enforced . This is not about cost cutting this is not about forcing Gaeilge down your throat this is simply about forcing ENGLISH down the throat of Gaeilge speakers . This makes anybody who wants to converse to the state as Gaeilge a second class citizen as the goverment are saying that it simply is not important. This is simply about getting civil rights for Gaeilge speakers .

usernamegoes

cytex wrote: »

Why does it matter if the have perfect English. They have a constitutional right to speak Gaeilge . The cominisinéir Teanga office is the only department that you could go to so that this CONSTITUTIONAL right could be enforced . This is not about cost cutting this is not about forcing Gaeilge down your throat this is simply about forcing ENGLISH down the throat of Gaeilge speakers . This makes anybody who wants to converse to the state as Gaeilge a second class citizen as the goverment are saying that it simply is not important. This is simply about getting civil rights for Gaeilge speakers .

Which part of the Constitution says this is a Constitutional Right? When you find it please quote the whole of the Article.

Permabear

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anymore

deise go deo wrote: »

An Coimisinéir Teanga


The Government has announced that it is going to close the Office of An Coimisinéir Teanga and transfer its functions to the Office of the Ombudsman as part of its public sector reform plan.

The problem with this is that the Government announced only a couple of weeks ago a public consultation as part of a review of the Official Languages Act which includes the role and functions of the Office of An Coimisinéir Teanga. It's seams they are asking the public to engage in a consultation on an Office they have already decided to close:rolleyes:


The other problem is that there are no savings to be made. No-one will lose their jobs. If anything, there will be greater expense to the exchequer if they attempt to move the current staff to the Ombudsman's Office in Dublin.

The question has to be asked, How does the Government view the rights of Irish speakers in Ireland.




People have already been protesting against this decision outside the Dáil.

Maybe they think that irish speakers should only have the same rights as the rest of us ? Judging by the photos, if any of these people are paying taxes, they claerly havent being doing so for too long - so I suggest they wait long enough to have made some significant contribution before they start moaning and groaning !

Permabear

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anymore

Permabear wrote: »

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Dont think their numbers qualify them for that status yet !

cytex

usernamegoes wrote: »

Which part of the Constitution says this is a Constitutional Right? When you find it please quote the whole of the Article.

Article 8

[FONT=Verdana,Verdana][FONT=Verdana,Verdana]

1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.

[/FONT][/FONT]

　

3. Provision may, however, be made by law for the exclusive use of either of the said languages for any one or more official purposes, either throughout the State or in any part thereof.

your bang on about this point I am incorrect .

Permabear

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anymore

If I could find moderately priced adult irish evening classes, I would attaned and would like to speak irish fluently, I have paid to send my kid to the gaeltacht twice but I have no time for all this ' We are special people' which is part of the politically correct Tyranny that has become so much part of irish life - there are no ' special people' we are all equal .

cytex

Permabear wrote: »

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Who is trying to stop people from speaking Gaeilge why the irish goverment is trying to make it as hard as possible for people to speak the langauge in any official way.

Rules to break the immerssion enviroment of Gaeilscoils by trying to enforce english speaking in junior infants.
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/gaelscoil-firstyears-should-not-be-taught-any-english-69626.html

try ringing up to any department as gaeilge and see the response you get they have made it easier to speak english to get anywhere or to get any help or try talking to a guard or doctor as gaeilge.
it is now easier to set up a gaelscoil in the north than it is in the republic.
I could go on with this there was 700 complaints to this department last year.

"Lavish funds" the goverment is wasteing money left right and center they are not spending the funding for the Irish language any way intelligently. However this department was one that most Gaeilgoirs respected it meant we have some where to complain and get our rights under the 2003 langauge act . This department was speaking out about the waste that most here are arguing about.

And im not being melodramatic langauge rights is about civil rights full stop the goverment are forcing people to speak english they are getting rid of the department that stood up for Gaeilge speakers. The two languages should be equal as they are both official languages. I should be able to talk to the state in the offical language of this country no problem i cant and there responce is "you should be able to speak english just fine". That is unacceptable to me . While i agree money is being wasted to translate documents one department spent 30k on one document this is atrocuious spending they should hire gaeilge speakers and documents should be written by these gaeige speakers not wasting money on third party translators.

texidub

Most of them are probably protesting as one day they hope to get one of those pretend media jobs in Ireland's greatest charity scam --TG4.

The Irish language lobby is a bigger threat to Irish culture today than any other group. They won't rest until everybody else conforms to their anti-Irish agenda.

cytex

anymore wrote: »

If I could find moderately priced adult irish evening classes, I would attaned and would like to speak irish fluently, I have paid to send my kid to the gaeltacht twice but I have no time for all this ' We are special people' which is part of the politically correct Tyranny that has become so much part of irish life - there are no ' special people' we are all equal .

http://www.peoplescollege.ie/courses.html

Cheapest in dublin no idea how good they are tho.

cytex

texidub wrote: »

Most of them are probably protesting as one day they hope to get one of those pretend media jobs in Ireland's greatest charity scam --TG4.

The Irish language lobby is a bigger threat to Irish culture today than any other group. They won't rest until everybody else conforms to their anti-Irish agenda.

Surely the Greatest charity scam in ireland is RTE .

"Anti irish Agenda" how is wanting equal rights with english speakers a "anti-irish agenda"

anymore

cytex wrote: »

http://www.peoplescollege.ie/courses.html

Cheapest in dublin no idea how good they are tho.

Thank you but i live in Cork.

Lord TSC

try ringing up to any department as gaeilge and see the response you get they have made it easier to speak english to get anywhere or to get any help or try talking to a guard or doctor as gaeilge

So what? They should pander to the (generous figure) 1.7% of people who speak Irish on a daily basis? Even presuming that figure represents people who only speak Irish, it's crazy to expect every government body and every public service to facilitate such a small, small minority.

The thing is I can see the point you're trying to make. I get why people would want some documents to be made available in Irish. But I simply cannot see the justification of having a seperate office whose job is to force 100% of documentation, road signs, government stationary, etc to be translated to facilitate the desires of 1.7% of the people, when 98.3% of the population can get by perfectly well without the Irish translations.

I get why people want Irish to be encouraged or the options to be available. I do not get how these people don't realise how selfish it is to force these desires on 98.3% (minimum) of the population. You want equal rights for a minority group who only represent the tinest section of Irish society.

cytex

anymore wrote: »

Thank you but i live in Cork.

http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/articles/irish-language-evening-courses

try these then

texidub

cytex wrote: »

Surely the Greatest charity scam in ireland is RTE .

"Anti irish Agenda" how is wanting equal rights with english speakers a "anti-irish agenda"

I said the "Irish language lobby." Their ambition extends way beyond equal rights to the forced learning of Irish in schools, stealing tax payers money to fund a tv station that gets about 3% of the Irish TV market (which is tiny anyway), and to promoting their language at the expense of the language of the vast majority of Irish people.

The vast, vast majority Irish people speak English. Therefore Irish culture is English speaking. In this sense and through the actions described above the Irish language lobby have an anti-Irish cultural agenda --a bare-faced attempt to overthrow Irish culture as it stands today. Anti-Irish poison. Go and set up another country if you're so opposed to Irish culture.

Leave Ireland alone!

cytex

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

So what? They should pander to the (generous figure) 1.7% of people who speak Irish on a daily basis? Even presuming that figure represents people who only speak Irish, it's crazy to expect every government body and every public service to facilitate such a small, small minority.

The thing is I can see the point you're trying to make. I get why people would want some documents to be made available in Irish. But I simply cannot see the justification of having a seperate office whose job is to force 100% of documentation, road signs, government stationary, etc to be translated to facilitate the desires of 1.7% of the people, when 98.3% of the population can get by perfectly well without the Irish translations.

I get why people want Irish to be encouraged or the options to be available. I do not get how these people don't realise how selfish it is to force these desires on 98.3% (minimum) of the population. You want equal rights for a minority group who only represent the tinest section of Irish society.

Personally I dont agree with forcing anything on english speakers at all. I would prefer the goverment to support gaelscoils for every parent that wants to send there child there. But Gaeilge speakers are a part of this country are you saying that they should not be a equal part because they speak there national language ?? I want equal rights for to speak both langauges of the state and not have english rammed down their throats.

anymore

cytex wrote: »

http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/articles/irish-language-evening-courses

try these then

Thank you again - it is too late for autumn classes, but I will enquure there for the Spring. The last time I had enquired about Irish classes, UCC were charging € 300 for evening classes !
This may allow me to help my kid with irish for the leaving cert next year !

cytex

texidub wrote: »

I said the "Irish language lobby." Their ambition extends way beyond equal rights to the forced learning of Irish in schools, stealing tax payers money to fund a tv station that gets about 3% of the Irish TV market (which is tiny anyway), and to promoting their language at the expense of the language of the vast majority of Irish people.

The vast, vast majority Irish people speak English. Therefore Irish culture is English speaking. In this sense and through the actions described above they have an anti-Irish cultural agenda --a bare-faced attempt to overthrow Irish culture as it stands today. Anti-Irish poison. Go and set up another country if you're so opposed to Irish culture.

Leave Ireland alone!

Stealing tax payers money ????????
Gaeilge speakers are tax payers do i say the unemployed steal my money do i say that people who have children steal my money. Tg4 is a way better station than rte 1 or 2 or tv3 . They have a lot more variety sport and no overpaid presenters on it a much better bang for the buck than any of the rtes.

And yes I agree irish should not be forced down anybodys throat either should english be forced down anybody throat.

I really hate to break it to you but Gaeilge is everymuch a part of irish culture as anything else this is our country too and we deserve equal rights in it And nobody wants to overthrow irish culture seriously do you here yourself .

Lord TSC

cytex wrote: »

Personally I dont agree with forcing anything on english speakers at all. I would prefer the goverment to support gaelscoils for every parent that wants to send there child there. But Gaeilge speakers are a part of this country are you saying that they should not be a equal part because they speak there national language ?? I want equal rights for to speak both langauges of the state and not have english rammed down their throats.

I'm not saying they, as a people, are second class citizens. Thats just begging for sympathy cause you know it's difficult to defend your arguement with logic.

I am saying that the Irish language is only spoken by 1.7% of the Irish population outside of educational institutes. I'm saying that it is ludicrous to expect a language which is the first language of 1.7% of the population to be on equal ground to one which is the first language of 98.3% of the population. It shouldn't be on equal ground because it's not spoekn by anywhere near an equal number of people.

Permabear

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texidub

cytex wrote: »

And nobody wants to overthrow irish culture seriously do you here yourself .

yes stealing was the wrong choice of words.. I meant 'wasting'

and I have already explained why I think the Irish language lobby are a threat to Irish culture as it stands. They won't rest until Irish culture --which is Engish speaking, whether you or I like it or not-- is transformed into something else.. predominantly Irish speaking, of course. In this sense they are anti-Irish culture and are attempting to overthrow it.

Not only are they a cultural threat, but they are a threat to the ability of Irish people to communicate with more people around the globe, something we should be doing more of given our position as a small country in a big, big world.

I am sorry if you disagree, but IMO the Irish language lobby are a poison: culturally, and linguistically. The sooner we stop stop wasting taxpayers money on them and their useless projects and their anti-Irish agenda, the better.

cytex

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'm not saying they, as a people, are second class citizens. Thats just begging for sympathy cause you know it's difficult to defend your arguement with logic.

I am saying that the Irish language is only spoken by 1.7% of the Irish population outside of educational institutes. I'm saying that it is ludicrous to expect a language which is the first language of 1.7% of the population to be on equal ground to one which is the first language of 98.3% of the population. It shouldn't be on equal ground because it's not spoekn by anywhere near an equal number of people.

The logic is this .

Gaeilge speakers are apart of this state . Gaeilge is a offical language of this state.. Gaeilge speakers pay taxes in this state. Gaeilge speakers should be able to address the state as Gaeilge. Gaeilge speakers should not have the other language of this state forced down their throats and english speakers should not have Gaeilge forced down their throats.

just beacause english is the majority language does not mean that the minority people should have this thrust upon them and told they have to speak english when dealing with Their goverment. That is inequality making Gaeilge speakers who do speak a offical language of this state a second class citizen.

There are 2 official languages in this country why should people not be able to address the state in this second language.

cytex

texidub wrote: »

yes stealing was the wrong choice of words.. I meant 'wasting'

and I have already explained why I think the Irish language lobby are a threat to Irish culture as it stands. They won't rest until Irish culture --which is Engish speaking, whether you or I like it or not-- is transformed into something else.. predominantly Irish speaking, of course. In this sense they are anti-Irish culture and are attempting to overthrow it.

Not only are they a cultural threat, but they are a threat to the ability of Irish people to communicate with more people around the globe, something we should be doing more of given our position as a small country in a big, big world.

I am sorry if you disagree, but IMO the Irish language lobby are a poison: culturally, and linguistically. The sooner we stop stop wasting taxpayers money on them and their useless projects and their anti-Irish agenda, the better.

You are wrong on this even the most hard core Gaeilge lobbist would like a bilingual state not a Gaeilge only one. So no they are not trying to overthrow anything .

Again your second point is wrong they are not trying to hurt our ability to communicate with any around the world as they dont want the country to give up english even the most hard core supporter would see why this is deitremental. Seriously you should stop reading the irish times about what these people stand for and ask them what they want as you are way off.

cytex

Permabear wrote: »

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So supporting one of the cultures in this state is not a sensible use of state funds and you were saying i was being melodramtic with my second class citizen comment. I pay my taxes same as you.

Except in a few isolated pockets of the country, Irish is not a vibrant, thriving community language in which families, neighbors, and friends converse as a matter of course. It is actually that reality that Gaelgoirs are protesting about — if they can't speak Irish with their neighbors and friends, they want the right to speak it to the state. But it's simply tokenism to insist that Guards or doctors should be able to speak this language.

It is a minority language but there are communitys of it all over that are not recognised by the goverment. In dublin I can socialize by going to pubs cafes restraunts in Gaeilge and have the expectation that every single person in those places can and do speak Gaeilge.
I know of a thriving community in tallaght and ballymun and im sure there are others where peoples day to day language is Gaeilge so you are simply wrong on this point.

Spending millions a year so that a tiny minority of aggrieved Gaelgoirs have somewhere to complain is just silly.



English, the primary spoken and written language of the country for two centuries, is our national lingua franca. The "all Irish, all the time" stance of some Gaelgoirs is quixotic to the point of utter foolishness.



Ireland has over 300,000 public servants, only a small minority of whom are fluent enough in Irish to be able to deliver services by way of it. The state is a primarily English-speaking institution. Witness the recent general election and presidential debates, in which political leaders stumbled awkwardly through TG4 debates that had to be broadcast with subtitles for the benefit of the 99 percent.



So, county councils should hire Irish speakers to write their planning reports, and then pay to have those reports translated back into English for the 99 percent? That's a bit bass ackwards, to be honest.

Standing up for citizens rights of this country is not silly. Again you also should stop reading the irish times and actually find out what gaeilgoirs want as your way off.

No they should right there report in english give it to a Gaeilge speaker to translate into Gaeilge 30k a year should be enough to hire one not 30k a document or anything close.