license substitution

johnnymolloy

ive just recently put a deposit on a 220 swift and i have a 22 magnum at the minute.what im wondering is what do i do when i swap the license over as ill have a gun that is not licensed to me?

robertpatterson

Are you swapping one for the other?
You still have a licence for the magnum and will until you receive the swift from the rfd and hell take the swift then as your licence for the magnum will expire and the swift licence will be active

Mezamo

You need to fill in Section 3.4 of the FCA1 firearms application form. In section 3.1 of the form fill in the details of the new rifle and in 3.4 fill in your old rifle's details. You can download the application form here: http://www.nargc.ie/Upload/Form%20FCA1.pdf . Best of luck

johnnymolloy

well rang the garda today and sure enough their was a problem in their eyes basically i was asked why i would want a second gun of the same caliber, i own a .22 magnum and applied for a .220 swift so i told him that their not the same one was considerably larger than the other and was a center fire.

he then said well why didnt i substitute(beacuse they taught they were the same caliber) it and i said because im trying to sell the one i have currently and that i havent sold it yet.

i was then asked why i would want a larger gun i said because its for foxes and it give much cleaner and quicker kills.

he seemed concered that if they granted me the license i would have 2 rifles in my possession surely nothing wrong with that seeing as many here have more than 1 rifle.

he gave me the impression that he was very worried as to why i would want 2 rifles and was concerned that i would have 2 licenses for them again surely nothing wrong with that as i would be licensed to own them.

i was very confused by the whole situation but he said he would pass on the information.

Cass

Merged this with your original thread.

Cass

It seems to me the Garda is "concerned" that you would have two "identical" rifles. It would be the same as asking for a .270 and .308 for deer stalking. Both high caliber, both centrefire, and both very close to each other in terms of caliber.

While there is no law against having any amount of guns the "good reason" clause in firearm applications allows the Gardai to limit the number of firearms by means of "You don't have a good enough reason" rather than "we don't want you having two/three, etc guns".

There is a quick way around this. Surrender the magnum to a dealer, pay a minimal storage fee if one applies, and do a substitution from the magnum to the Swift.

johnnymolloy

can you substitute a 22 magnum for a 220 swift?

Cass

Honestly i couldn't tell ya. i mean i've heard of .223 being subbed for a .308 then in another district they wouldn't sub a 243 for a 6.5 because they are not the same calibre.

Only thing you can do is try, and the fact that the Garda speaking to you said as much would be encouraging.

So you have in your favour;

• Same type of gun - Rifle
• Same calibre - 5.7mm
• Same actions - Bolt
• Same license type - Unrestricted

Going against a sub would be;

• One is rimfire the other centrefire

So drop the magnum, and go for the Swift. That is of course if you want the gun. You could try, and license the swift while holding onto the magnum, but you run the risk of refusal on "no good reason". Its a matter of do you want the swift?

johnnymolloy

cheers ezridax ill get onto some gun dealers in the morning and see what the crack is with them holding it for me

Cass

Just so you know, if you don't already. If a dealer takes in your rifle he must sign it into his firearms dealer register. This means legally he cannot release the gun without a license so there will be no "turning back" if you go through with it.

IOW if you go for the sub, get it, then you cannot take back the magnum, unless you get another license for it. Upside is if its in his shop more people will see it, and it could sell.

Be sure to fix a price with him before doing anything. He may ask for a fee or even a "commission" if/when the gun sells.

cookimonster

Talking from very recent experience all of this is dependent on the garda. I have two exactly the same 22s , make model etc, with no question. Was offered a sub on one or the option of keeping both when looking for a .243 (traded in the wifes one instead). As far as the garda was concerned I had a seperate use for each gun, hunting, targets etc.

Cass

cookimonster wrote: »

Talking from very recent experience all of this is dependent on the garda..

Correct.

I have 3 .308 licenses, 2 12G shotgun licenses, and 2 .22lr licenses.

johnnymolloy

well good and bad news

good news first letter came today and its approved:D

now the bad news it says no silencer which has really taken away the joy of getting the license

so what do i from here we all know that center fires are loud and even more so with the 220 swift so how do i go about getting the the silencer approved (my reasons were shooting at night and near livestock)

Cass

You can contact your FO, ask him to check PULSE to see if the mod was granted, and if so request a reprint with the "S" on it.

If he says you were not granted the "S" then you can apply seperately again for it, or appeal the Super's decision not to issue it.

johnnymolloy

cool so should i go pay for the license or wait until ive contacted him?

kildare.17hmr

It does not say on the grant letter that you got the mod you will have to wait to see if its on the licence iirc so go pay and if its not there then contact the fo

Cass

johnnymolloy wrote: »

good news first letter came today and its approved:D

now the bad news it says no silencer which has really taken away the joy of getting the license

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

It does not say on the grant letter that you got the mod .............

My mistake here.

Kildare.17hmr is on the ball. I never copped the letter bit. The grant letter will not mention the mod on it. I was answering under the impression that it was the actual license. So on that note;

johnnymolloy wrote: »

cool so should i go pay for the license or wait until ive contacted him?

Pay for the license and see f the "" is in the corner. If so then you're sorted. If not then contact him.


Pays to read posts carefully before answering.:o

johnnymolloy

cheers lads

johnnymolloy

just after reading through some things if theirs no s on the license when i apply for it again and it gets approved will i be hit with another fee of 80 or should i just ring up and ask if its a mistake atleast then if it is i can just reapply for the gun and silencer together ?

Cass

Honestly, you are better off paying the fee, getting the license, and waiting to see if it comes back with the "S". If it does you're sorted. If not then we can list your possibilities.

johnnymolloy

i payed for the license yesterday and just checked the mail and theirs a letter from the garda saying this " i am unwilling to grant you a silencer for use with your rifle, the use of a rifle near livestock should not be encouraged, the safety of the public and livestock is paramount." so where do i go from here?

Cass

See post below.

johnnymolloy

cheers ezridax just my brother applied for a 223 with a mod and he had it within the week no reason for the mod at all so just not sure whats goin on

Cass

I must apologise to johnnymolloy, and thanks to the lads that pointed out my error.

I mistakeningly read the post above as "willing", when infact it said "unwilling".

Thats a whole different story. The Super has taken the stance that he will not issue you with a mod for the rifle. You have three options;

1. Accept it, and move on.
2. Appeal either via an interview with the Super as his concern seems to be your use around livestock or an appeal via the court system.
3. Wait and re-apply seperately for the mod at a later date. Nothing says you cannot do so.

Again my apologies for the misunderstanding in my last post. Thats twice now i've misread something in as many days.:o

johnnymolloy

no worry ezridax im considering appealing it just im afraid i might end up creating unwanted attention if i want to apply for other guns in the future? think ill appeal it and just have my answers ready has anyone else done this and know what sort of questions to expect?

Cass

johnnymolloy wrote: »

no worry ezridax im considering appealing it just im afraid i might end up creating unwanted attention if i want to apply for other guns in the future?

I doubt the Super will take any appeal as personal especially if you seek to talk to him before going the legal route. I mean thats why the appeal system is in place. For you to be able to personally "assure" the Super that his reasons for refusing are unfounded, and for you to put across your "argument" that he has nothing to fear.

When he says;

johnnymolloy (letter from Super) wrote:

" i am unwilling to grant you a silencer for use with your rifle, the use of a rifle near livestock should not be encouraged, the safety of the public and livestock is paramount."

He is infact saying that the use of a rifle around livestock should not be encouraged. Yet he has granted you the use of the rifle, but not the mod. So if his concerns are with the rifle around livestock why grant you it, but refuse the mod? The rifle will work just fine without it.

think ill appeal it and just have my answers ready has anyone else done this and know what sort of questions to expect?

Make an appointment to see him. Might take a week or two, but you can do it. Sit down, and talk to him. Assure him that your reasons for wanting the mod are valid. That you never shoot close to or around livestock, but want the mod to reduce the noise so as not to startle livestock in surroundign fields away from your line of fire. Also as you actively control vermin for the landowners which must be done at night it will also reduce the noise/disturbance to local residents. Again stress you do not fire next or near housing, but as an unmoderated shot can be heard more clearly you wish to reduce any disruption to those that give you land permissions.

I'm sure there are more, and probably better reasons, but your job is to convince him to grant the mod without raising more concerns about your type of shooting. Main thing is to be honest. A lie will only lead to more lies, and you will always catch yourself out. Give the Super the option to "overturn" his decision. It will be viewed in a better light than immediately going the legal route.

johnnymolloy

taught id update this i still have not had any joy getting this moderator its been almost 8 months now and ive rang up more times than i care to remember ive just been feed the same old things "hes busy" and "hes not here", the last time i rang he said did i not have one already as the super said the gun shoulda came with one, i was shocked and pissed off:mad: at this as i would not have been ringing him for the last 8 months if i had one,ive been more than courteous and patient with this situation. also having taken the gun out and shooting 2 rounds out of it and hearing how loud it is i will not be able to use it without a mod

also the reason i was denied the mod was because he misunderstood me i said id be shooting near livestock(he took it as id be shooting at them or right beside them) now surely if thats a problem i shouldnt have been even given the gun on the first place, seems to me he was just looking for an excuse not to give to me:mad:.

does anyone have any ideas what i can do im thinkin on making an appointment with the super because its gone beyond a joke now.

juice1304

Make an appointment and have a nice calm chat don't get angery at all throughout it at all no matter what he says or dose. If you still have no joy then you could ask for a refusal in writing as a can is classed as a firearm. Then you could go to a solicitor and go that route if needs be he may cave by then but i think he will just give it to you if you have a chat. But be sure to stay calm sometimes they like to test ya.:D

johnnymolloy

well just got off the phone with the garda and its been approved i have my moderator:D but theirs a condition on it im only allowed to shoot rabbits with it

aaakev

johnnymolloy wrote: »

well just got off the phone with the garda and its been approved i have my moderator:D but theirs a condition on it im only allowed to shoot rabbits with it

The words 'red mist' spring to mind.... Thats complete bull, call them back and say this is an unreasonable request as the swift is for foxes too

johnnymolloy

aaakev wrote: »

The words 'red mist' spring to mind.... Thats complete bull, call them back and say this is an unreasonable request as the swift is for foxes too

i had said this to him and that i do foxing at night and he said i dont need because i only get one shot at a fox and thats it, i told that i had been talking to people that on regular go out and shoot 5 or 6 foxes a night to which he said thats quite rare and i explained that i would like to have for shooting at nnight cause i dont want to cause any problems for the farmer