Italy On The Edge Of Bailout

SafeSurfer

Italian 10 year bond yields have surged well past the 7% level.

Is an Italian bailout only a matter of time? Euro has slipped 1.25% already today.

If Italy goes that leaves only Spain, of the original PIIGS without a bailout. Their bond yields are also on an upward trajectory.

Its the end of the Euro as we know it.

Snakeblood

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Italian 10 year bond yields have surged well past the 7% level.

Is an Italian bailout only a matter of time? Euro has slipped 1.25% already today.

If Italy goes that leaves only Spain, of the original PIIGS without a bailout. Their bons yields are also on an upward trajectory.

Its the end of the Euro as we know it.

There's no bailout for Italy, I don't think. Their national debt is too big. Berlusconi has to go and go now, the markets might have a little more faith with a national unity government and him gone. They just need to see that things will happen.

mikemac

Italy have the third largest gold reserve in the world, behind only the USA and Germany

Italy have options
A quick google shows me a value of $147 billion

Wouldn't Ireland love to have that

SEPT 23 1989

France is the end game

Mark200

Italy are the third largest Euro economy and they are guaranteeing 20% of Greece's bailout. I really don't see how a bailout is an option for them. Getting a new and stable Government in place as soon as possible will help.

SeaFields

It'll be interesting to see Merkel and Sarkozy tell Burlusconi what to do. Considering he is such a "character" that is.

Mark200

According to the Metro, Italy has debts of €2trillion

Captain Darling

mikemac wrote: »

Italy have the third largest gold reserve in the world, behind only the USA and Germany

Italy have options
A quick google shows me a value of $147 billion

Wouldn't Ireland love to have that

The Vatican can surely give them a bail out as well??

Crazy Horse 6

Mark200 wrote: »

Italy are the third largest Euro economy and they are guaranteeing 20% of Greece's bailout. I really don't see how a bailout is an option for them. Getting a new and stable Government in place as soon as possible will help.

No it won't tbh. The debt is the problem not berlo.

admiralofthefleet

Captain Darling wrote: »

The Vatican can surely give them a bail out as well??

the vatican could bail out every country in trouble with their billions in cash and nazi gold

Cookie_Monster

Italy have been on the edge of a bailout since ww2, nothing new here

giant_midget

Their 10yr yields have already hit 7.4%

http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GBTPGR10:IND

Dyr

The merkel markets need a puppet govt installed in Italy ASAP! Viva la EUreich!!

foxyboxer

Mark200 wrote: »

According to the Metro, Italy has debts of €2trillion

Mamma Mia! That's a spicy Meataball!

mike65

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

the vatican could bail out every country in trouble with their billions in cash and nazi gold

Only if that were true.

Hard to know what happens now, getting Silvio out pronto and the budget passed would help but the ECB could only prop up Italy and Spain for about 18 months its reckoned. This is now a truly global matter and needs to be dealt with in that context and that means China will have to get involved.

HellFireClub

Snakeblood wrote: »

There's no bailout for Italy, I don't think. Their national debt is too big. Berlusconi has to go and go now, the markets might have a little more faith with a national unity government and him gone. They just need to see that things will happen.

Just like our own spectacular downfall, one man's ego and rediculous belief in his own abilities, has worsened the crisis.

Latchy

Like the plumber who stops one leak in the pipe only to find another spouts out ,then another...it has to end somewhere . I like the idea of the Mafia Vatican opening it's coffers and bailing them out ...be very christian thing to do .:pac:

sock puppet

Latchy wrote: »

Like the plumber who stops one leak in the pipe only to find another spouts out ,then another...it has to end somewhere .

I really don't think calling in Mario is going to do Italy any good.

Captain Darling

foxyboxer wrote: »

Mamma Mia! That's a spicy Meataball!

PASTA SOLO!

wobbles-grogan

HellFireClub wrote: »

Just like our own spectacular downfall, one man's ego and rediculous belief in his own abilities, has worsened the crisis.

Nah, the crisis has worsened the crisis.

Berlusconi was/is a scapegoat. Just like the leaders in some of the other bailed out countries. Cowen, Popendreau, now berlusconi.

The problem here is the markets (that thing which we all are part of and no one is part of all at the same time) have too much power. End of. They can single handedly bring down a democratically elected government, in any country they wish.

How do we fix that? i dunno

Snakeblood

sock puppet wrote: »

I really don't think calling in Mario is going to do Italy any good.

That man knows where the gold coins are.

NinjaK

Good, the sooner the Euro dies the better.

Latchy

sock puppet wrote: »

I really don't think calling in Mario is going to do Italy any good.

No ...the dutch are much better at plugging holes .

Captain Darling

Latchy wrote: »

No ...the dutch are much better at plugging holes .

And sticking their fingers into dykes.

Latchy

Captain Darling wrote: »

And sticking their fingers into dykes.

At both ends ...

HellFireClub

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Nah, the crisis has worsened the crisis.

Berlusconi was/is a scapegoat. Just like the leaders in some of the other bailed out countries. Cowen, Popendreau, now berlusconi.

The problem here is the markets (that thing which we all are part of and no one is part of all at the same time) have too much power. End of. They can single handedly bring down a democratically elected government, in any country they wish.

How do we fix that? i dunno

Only where the state in question has completely lost the run of themselves and has proceeded to p*ss their tax payers money all over the place, as has happened here and also in Greece. At the end of the day, you don't lend money to someone who is going to be reckless with it.

You only need to look at Berlisconi to see the problem, an arséhole who has been too busy attending bunga bunga parties than to be running the country properly.

ejmaztec

The Mafia will solve Italy's financial problems with a few hundred pairs of concrete wellies and a one-way Mediterranean cruise.

Angron

SeaFields wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see Merkel and Sarkozy tell Burlusconi what to do.

I imagine he'd go out of his way to do the opposite.

Orando Broom

Latchy wrote: »

Like the plumber who stops one leak in the pipe only to find another spouts out ,then another...it has to end somewhere . I like the idea of the Mafia Vatican opening it's coffers and bailing them out ...be very christian thing to do .:pac:

If the said plumber spent less time fighting with mushrooms over some broad who was and is waaaaay out of his league the problems might not be so acute.

Berlusconi has already said he's stepping down after they pass some austerity bill, it's the tradeoff he gets for making the govt pass it
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1109/breaking1.html

doesn't seem to have helped though

Scanlas The 2nd

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Nah, the crisis has worsened the crisis.

Berlusconi was/is a scapegoat. Just like the leaders in some of the other bailed out countries. Cowen, Popendreau, now berlusconi.

The problem here is the markets (that thing which we all are part of and no one is part of all at the same time) have too much power. End of. They can single handedly bring down a democratically elected government, in any country they wish.

How do we fix that? i dunno

The problem is not the markets, the markets give countries much needed credit. The problem is the bad running of countries finances and letting debt get out of hand.

Snakeblood

bluewolf wrote: »

Berlusconi has already said he's stepping down after they pass some austerity bill, it's the tradeoff he gets for making the govt pass it
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1109/breaking1.html

doesn't seem to have helped though

he's not gone yet. What they should do is have a national unity government, get rid of him and have all politicians agree on a plan. That way, after the election, whenever that is, the markets know that whatever the plan is, everyone has agreed to enact it so there's no backsliding unless things turn greek.

jonnyfingers

Apparently the only two countries to have worse economic growth than Italy over the last few years are Haiti and Zimbabwe.

I'm amazed by that.

AhSureTisGrand

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Nah, the crisis has worsened the crisis.

Berlusconi was/is a scapegoat. Just like the leaders in some of the other bailed out countries. Cowen, Popendreau, now berlusconi.

The problem here is the markets (that thing which we all are part of and no one is part of all at the same time) have too much power. End of. They can single handedly bring down a democratically elected government, in any country they wish.

If you're to blame "the markets", then you have to blame yourself also for not buying any Italian bonds and thus bringing down their government

Galtee

jonnyfingers wrote: »

Apparently the only two countries to have worse economic growth than Italy over the last few years are Haiti and Zimbabwe.

I'm amazed by that.

Greece weren't far behind over the last 30 years. I'm amazed by the fact that all of a sudden it's a massive problem. Seems to me like there's a lot of people making a lot of money off the markets going up and down like a whores knickers.

[tinfoilhat]
I think that there have been several secret meetings between Euro bankers & finance ministers and they have decided that they will kill the €uro!

It will start with a freeze on international transfers of money just before Christmas and between Christmas and New year all the (larger value) bank notes will be overstamped with the symbol of the replacement currency IR£ for example.
decide to
On the 1st of January these notes will start to appear and exchange rates will start to float between countries.
[/tinfoilhat]

A bit far fetched, but nothing would surprise me now!

Dyr

Galtee wrote: »

Greece weren't far behind over the last 30 years. I'm amazed by the fact that all of a sudden it's a massive problem. Seems to me like there's a lot of people making a lot of money off the markets going up and down like a whores knickers.

It was'nt really a problem till all these economies were shoe horned into a single currency...

Galtee

Bambi wrote: »

It was'nt really a problem till all these economies were shoe horned into a single currency...

I don't understand what difference that makes.

Pataman

Lads you are all wrong. I was talking to a "Freeman" yesterday and aparently they are starting to print our own currency on the 21st of January.

Galtee

Pataman wrote: »

Lads you are all wrong. I was talking to a "Freeman" yesterday and aparently they are starting to print our own currency on the 21st of January.

So in next months budget they're going to give us back money?

Mazeire

Pataman wrote: »

Lads you are all wrong. I was talking to a "Freeman" yesterday and aparently they are starting to print our own currency on the 21st of January.

What? Who are "they"?

Pataman

A load of nutters!! http://freemanireland.ning.com/

the domino effect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnqP8lBUwgs

ilovesleep

Galtee wrote: »

Greece weren't far behind over the last 30 years. I'm amazed by the fact that all of a sudden it's a massive problem. Seems to me like there's a lot of people making a lot of money off the markets going up and down like a whores knickers.

Are those my dirty, kinky knickers you are talking about?

Galtee

ilovesleep wrote: »

Are those my dirty, kinky knickers you are talking about?

You want em back? You can have them, to be honest they don't really fit me anymore since the ol middle age spread set in. Before I didn't mind but now it's just embarrassing.

wobbles-grogan

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

If you're to blame "the markets", then you have to blame yourself also for not buying any Italian bonds and thus bringing down their government

Hence why i said we're all part of the markets, and yet not part of them at the same time.

Its like the video above, a domino effect.

Economic conditions worsen a little in a country, the "markets" decide that its going to get much worse there, and as a result, it DOES get much worse there.

I'd be willing to put money on it* that if the markets decided that italy had the money to repay its debts and they wont need bailing out, berlusconi would still be PM and thered be no trouble.

Also, as you said, the markets brought down the italian government, do you not think thats a little too much power in the hands of pension brokers and bankers(and whoever else
deals in govt bonds, i aint an economist!) ? Granted they all have to work in unison, but it looks like that happens quite often.

* i wouldnt really be willing to put money on it.

44leto

Italy the third biggest economy in Europe the 8th biggest in the world, there is not much the IMF/ECB can do about this. Its as if democracy and our current form of capitalism is failing along with the mighty west.

We are in unknown territory and its getting scarier.

wobbles-grogan

44leto wrote: »

Italy the third biggest economy in Europe the 8th biggest in the world, there is not much the IMF/ECB can do about this. Its as if democracy and our current form of capitalism is failing along with the mighty west.

We are in unknown territory and its getting scarier.

Ah, it'll be grand

Mazeire

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Ah, it'll be grand

You know something, It won't. Italy will curl it's toes up before Christmas and I would imagine Portugal and Spain will follow soon after.

44leto

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Ah, it'll be grand

No it most certainly wont, there is actually a chance of seeing some of us plum westerners starving on the street, just like in the 1929 depression, if this goes as bad as some think it may, it will be worse then the 1929 depression.

wobbles-grogan

44leto wrote: »

No it most certainly wont, there is actually a chance of seeing some of us plum westerners starving on the street, just like in the 1929 depression, if this goes as bad as some think it may, it will be worse then the 1929 depression.

T'will all be all right.

We'll have war in the middle east soon. Iran, isreal, syria, russia, etc... As a result, we'll all learn to live from the land again. None of these onions from spain, or potatoes from isreal, or McDonalds. Just good ol spuds from the garden! We'll all stop being fat, stop being reliant on "new stuff", and just...be happy.

See, even the worst of situations can be positive!