To those getting shafted by college fees

TheyKnowMyIP

Why not get your education abroad? I am a big believer in the free market, so why put up with increasing fees while the quality of third level education goes down? The amount you invest should be proportional to the actual quality of the education you recieve. Unlike most other nations, irish education appears to operate on the basis of an inverse relationship. This is not opinion, the league tables speak for themselves.

Ireland used to deliver a good education at a reasonable cost a few years back, but this is looking like a dwindling proposition. Some European countries don't even charge fees at all. It's a no brainer imo. Stop pissing people off with your aimless protests and put your money where your mouth is. Like most things in life, money is the ultimate bargaining tool. You can protest till you are blue in the face. These increases are not going away. Vote with your euro - It's better than any protest.

Am I talking sense or just deluded? You can give the finger not by wasting your breath on them, but by completely writing them out of the equation. Saddling undergrads who aren't exactly research oriented with massive loans isn't going to benefit society in the long run, even if the quality returns to a decent level.

landsleaving

Living in another country costs money, so I'm guessing that would be a big barrier, and no grants there either

allthedoyles

somebody's got rich parents

TheyKnowMyIP

landsleaving wrote: »

Living in another country costs money, so I'm guessing that would be a big barrier, and no grants there either

True. On campus accom should suffice though. It should still work out cheaper I believe, though I am well open to correction on this one. Grants aren't even required, if you are an EU citizen, the Government will pay. At least this is the case is some nordic countries like Finland. Probably because their tax everything to the hilt.

Cill Dara Abu

Amazing to always hear of college students being hard done by, a lot of my friends are students and they go drinking 4-5 nights a week so maybe if they didn't piss all there money up the wall they might be able to pay their own college fees rather than the working tax payer footing the bill!

starbelgrade

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Vote with your euro

Haha!!! Students with money.. I've heard it all now!!

Naomi00

Because it costs way more obviously, among a lot of other reasons.

I think protests etc are because money is constantly being cut from education, when it's blatantly obvious that TD's pay and the pay of cushy jobs in the public sector should be cut right down to normal standards. It's ridiculous that they act like such saints for taking a tiny pay cut, which is optional by the way, to make it even more ridiculous.:rolleyes:

TheyKnowMyIP

allthedoyles wrote: »

somebody's got rich parents

Nope. Not in a country mile. Any sort of job/income mostly alleviates these concerns though. What happens when the fees come back full whack? 10k per year for undegrad isn't good.

PseudoFamous

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Amazing to always hear of college students being hard done by, a lot of my friends are students and they go drinking 4-5 nights a week so maybe if they didn't piss all there money up the wall they might be able to pay their own college fees rather than the working tax payer footing the bill!

Arts students.

starbelgrade

What do we want?

Subsidies!

When do we want them?

Freshers week!

TheyKnowMyIP

tonycascarino wrote: »

Does it not cost money to live abroad? Money doesn't grow on trees you know..or at least you should

Last time I checked, it costs money to live here aswell:cool:

Cill Dara Abu

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Arts students.

Nope no Art students I know.

rockmongrel

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Amazing to always hear of college students being hard done by, a lot of my friends are students and they go drinking 4-5 nights a week so maybe if they didn't piss all there money up the wall they might be able to pay their own college fees rather than the working tax payer footing the bill!

Madness. Most of my friends are in college and they are sh!t broke, lucky to go out once a week. Guess we live in different worlds.

Miss Olenska

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I am a big believer in the free market, so why put up with increasing fees while the quality of third level education goes down?

Didn't the quality of third level education decrease once fees were abolished, and degrees became increasingly worthless?

gizmo555

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

True. On campus accom should suffice though. It should still work out cheaper I believe, though I am well open to correction on this one. Grants aren't even required, if you are an EU citizen, the Government will pay. At least this is the case is some nordic countries like Finland. Probably because their tax everything to the hilt.

Be a bit awkward to have to learn Finnish before starting your degree though . . .

Cill Dara Abu

Miss Olenska wrote: »

Didn't the quality of third level education decrease once fees were abolished and degrees became increasingly worthless?

Correct, some dumb fcuks going around with degrees.

maglite

Interested in how I get this free education if i just turn up at their door step, Could you enlighten me as to which countries do this?

thecornflake

gizmo555 wrote: »

Be a bit awkward to have to learn Finnish before starting your degree though . . .

Unless . . . . . you plan on doing a Finnish language course

TheyKnowMyIP

maglite wrote: »

Interested in how I get this free education if i just turn up at their door step, Could you enlighten me as to which countries do this?

Nordic countries, mostly. Provided you are an EU citizen, they will pay the fees. Look it up, I am not talking out of my arse on this one. Not that you get everything else for nothing, obviously. You would need to find a job I think. It's a practical solution in comparison to aimless protests/pussyfooting. At least in the present.

Novella

Pretty simple answer from me really - I like living in this country. This is where I am happy at the moment, this is where my family and friends are and I would like to be educated here. It's just preference.

ciara1052

I checked out doing a degree in a nordic country but it was *free* (flights, accomadation, expenses not included) had I done it in the native language . The english language courses have fees of about 12-14k. I know this is also the case in Hungary.


Even if fees go up here and I some how manage to be able to find the money to continue in my degree (not so sure how likey that is...) - I'll still save because I've no living or travel expenses here because I live at home.

thecornflake

ciara1052 wrote: »

I checked out doing a degree in a nordic country but it was *free* (flights, accomadation, expenses not included) had I done it in the native language . The english language courses have fees of about 12-14k. I know this is also the case in Hungary.


Even if fees go up here and I some how manage to be able to find the money to continue in my degree (not so sure how likey that is...) - I'll still save because I've no living or travel expenses here because I live at home.

If fees do come in will they actually apply to people in the middle of degrees ?

I would have thought it would be incoming students.

TheyKnowMyIP

Don't get me wrong, if Ireland is working out okay, pay no heed to my comments. Not all colleges are shafting people in this country. It's just a solution I thought I might share for those that may not have considered it yet:)

If they keep increasing the fees exponentially, this is what is going to happen. In large numbers.

mikemac

Cutting administration in colleges and stop putting the top brass on huge salaries over one hundred thousand might go a long way towards this funding issue

My experience of college staff was bureaucracy and constant infighting between departments. Everyone trying to justify their position
Computer says no, you need to contact the other administrator, that's not my job, you'll have an answer to two weeks

TheyKnowMyIP

mikemac wrote: »

My experience of college staff was bureaucracy and constant infighting between departments. Everyone trying to justify their position

Don't get me started:pac:

Herb Powell

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Amazing to always hear of college students being hard done by, a lot of my friends are students and they go drinking 4-5 nights a week so maybe if they didn't piss all there money up the wall they might be able to pay their own college fees rather than the working tax payer footing the bill!

I'm in college. I can tell you straight away they are a minority. Most are broke.
I ****ing hate this debate anyway. Education is one of the most important things a country can invest in/spend money on.

DB21

Always funny to see someone so disconnected with student life stick their nose in. I'm sorry if that sounds snarky, but it's true.

"Students out on the piss 4-5 times a week" invariably fail first year.

Studying abroad isn't an option for a lot of people due to accommodation and living costs, as well as most countries not giving a grant to non-citizens.

Most students are now on €1 per day. This is the reality of our situation. And registration fees are set to rise again. People throwing out fantastical solutions like this is ridiculous.

elefant

ciara1052 wrote: »

I checked out doing a degree in a nordic country but it was *free* (flights, accomadation, expenses not included) had I done it in the native language . The english language courses have fees of about 12-14k. I know this is also the case in Hungary.


Even if fees go up here and I some how manage to be able to find the money to continue in my degree (not so sure how likey that is...) - I'll still save because I've no living or travel expenses here because I live at home.

No fees except registration in Belgium or the Netherlands, even for Masters courses. Registration is around 600 and 1700 respectively I think, but that's a whole lot less than the the 7 or so grand you'd pay for a masters in Ireland.

Also, in the Netherlands, if you're lucky enough to find a job the Dutch government will pay you a grant and give you a free transport card. You're also eligible to get rent allowance from the government, but I'm not sure just how much this covers.

TheyKnowMyIP

DB21 wrote: »

People throwing out fantastical solutions like this is ridiculous.

It's not a silver bullet solution to apply to every single student. It's something I thought might be worth considering though. How is the suggestion "fantastical"? Would you still consider it fantastical when you consider the huge number of people leaving the country on a daily basis? If you manage to find work abroad, I can't see how it isn't a solution to consider.

ciara1052

thecornflake wrote: »

If fees do come in will they actually apply to people in the middle of degrees ?

I would have thought it would be incoming students.

I don't know tbh. People I know seem to think so . Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Cill Dara Abu

Herb Powell wrote: »

I'm in college. I can tell you straight away they are a minority. Most are broke.
I ****ing hate this debate anyway. Education is one of the most important things a country can invest in/spend money on.

Yeah, look where that has got us :rolleyes:

Cill Dara Abu

DB21 wrote: »

Most students are now on €1 per day. This is the reality of our situation. And registration fees are set to rise again.

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lilcc2yUfp1qboxvdo1_500.jpg

TheyKnowMyIP

Jesus, you would swear I was putting a gun to the head of every student:D It's a suggestion. Won't apply to a lot of people, I get that. It is however another option to consider if it is within your reach. And by that, I am not talking simply in financial terms. Not everyone is going to like leaving the country. Ireland is a great country imo, home sickness is a factor to consider.

Unlike the top brass, my "solution" at least has some merit beyond simply putting on a show that student fees will decrease. The powers that be have more cuts lined up for the future, that much you can bank on.

ciara1052

elefant wrote: »

No fees except registration in Belgium or the Netherlands, even for Masters courses. Registration is around 600 and 1700 respectively I think, but that's a whole lot less than the the 7 or so grand you'd pay for a masters in Ireland.

Also, in the Netherlands, if you're lucky enough to find a job the Dutch government will pay you a grant and give you a free transport card. You're also eligible to get rent allowance from the government, but I'm not sure just how much this covers.

Are you sure you've checked for english language courses? The two schools I checked had fees only for english courses. I could have enrolled for free all right in the course not in english provided I passed an interview. I wouldn't be able to do chemistry through a foreign language....IF you're right and there is an option where I can study a course through english, and if fees increase to 10k here I shall have to look into doing my science degree elsewhere.

ciara1052

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Yeah, look where that has got us :rolleyes:

Investing in education is not why we're in the situation we're in. Might have something to do with *insert appropriate here* - e.g. overpaid politicians, that whole bank thing...

Mike 1972

gizmo555 wrote: »

Be a bit awkward to have to learn Finnish before starting your degree though . . .

Dunno about Finland but in the Netherlands a lot of University courses are done through English.

Not sure what fees/living costs are like but Ive heard of increasing numbers UK students going over there since the fee increases in the UK.

Of course if the Irish education "system" wasnt so embarrassingly shyte when it came to teaching continental languages............

DB21

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lilcc2yUfp1qboxvdo1_500.jpg

My sides a splitting. Never before have I seen such wit. Thanks for you valuable contribution to this debate.

Edit: Useless post has been reported, FYI.

Cill Dara Abu

ciara1052 wrote: »

Investing in education is not why we're in the situation we're in. Might have something to do with *insert appropriate here* - e.g. overpaid politicians, that whole bank thing...

If only we had an Art student to cry STOP!

PseudoFamous

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lilcc2yUfp1qboxvdo1_500.jpg

Look at it this way, if you were to go on the dole, you would earn more than twice what I have in a week. For sitting on your hole.

Don't even lark about college students not doing anything, because by God, I would say I do equal, if not more hours than you in a week, plus hours upon god damn hours of assignments and study.

Currently, I can expect to do 44 hours of raw lectures, tutorials and labs in a week. Toss on another 20 hours for getting from Arklow to Bolton St and back, as I can't afford to live nearer. Ticket is 49.50€ a week.

I can also mark in a minimum of 15 hours of study and assignments a week, and its a goddamn miracle I get any sleep at all.

It is a ridiculous position to be in, when you're being told by someone on the internet, without a clue of your circumstances, that you should be paying for college, when you have to think long and hard about buying lunch for yourself, in case you'll run out of money.

Of course, somebody will probably make a rebuttal involving parents paying for college, but of course, my family is currently living slightly above sustainance level, due to my dad being dead, so I doubt I'll be able to continue college if fees are introduced. If your bitter about someone being in college, get over it, there's buck nothing stopping you from being a mature student.

conno3001

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Amazing to always hear of college students being hard done by, a lot of my friends are students and they go drinking 4-5 nights a week so maybe if they didn't piss all there money up the wall they might be able to pay their own college fees rather than the working tax payer footing the bill!

I'm working every Friday and Saturday night 11pm - 8am as a Night porter, I go to college 5 days a week 9-5. Perhaps some students can afford to go out 4-5 nights drinking every week but to generalise like that is just ridiculous. I'm barely keeping my head above water as it is, not all of us come from homes that can afford to support their kids. If it was not for the grant I doubt I would have the means and the stamina to go to college for four years. I come from a one parent family, my mother has a low wage job, she doesn't support me financially nor could she.

So please, don't give me that ****e.

Flecktarn

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Yeah, look where that has got us :rolleyes:

Wow the generalizations are really flying from you tonight.

irishdude11

ciara1052 wrote: »

Are you sure you've checked for english language courses? The two schools I checked had fees only for english courses. I could have enrolled for free all right in the course not in english provided I passed an interview. I wouldn't be able to do chemistry through a foreign language....IF you're right and there is an option where I can study a course through english, and if fees increase to 10k here I shall have to look into doing my science degree elsewhere.

Where are you getting this idea that they would bring in fees for existing students? That would instantly put tens of thousands out onto the dole in the middle of their degrees. There is no way in hell that would go through the Dail. If they bring back full fees it will be for people yet to start college.

Cill Dara Abu

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Look at it this way, if you were to go on the dole, you would earn more than twice what I have in a week. For sitting on your hole.

Don't even lark about college students not doing anything, because by God, I would say I do equal, if not more hours than you in a week, plus hours upon god damn hours of assignments and study.

Currently, I can expect to do 44 hours of raw lectures, tutorials and labs in a week. Toss on another 20 hours for getting from Arklow to Bolton St and back, as I can't afford to live nearer. Ticket is 49.50€ a week.

I can also mark in a minimum of 15 hours of study and assignments a week, and its a goddamn miracle I get any sleep at all.

It is a ridiculous position to be in, when you're being told by someone on the internet, without a clue of your circumstances, that you should be paying for college, when you have to think long and hard about buying lunch for yourself, in case you'll run out of money.

Of course, somebody will probably make a rebuttal involving parents paying for college, but of course, my family is currently living slightly above sustainance level, due to my dad being dead, so I doubt I'll be able to continue college if fees are introduced. If your bitter about someone being in college, get over it, there's buck nothing stopping you from being a mature student.

Then leave college and go on the dole if it's that handy?

Mature student??? I never went to college nor do I need to, I have a perfectly good job that pays me a great wage so no college needed.

UglyBolloxFace

gizmo555 wrote: »

Be a bit awkward to have to learn Finnish before starting your degree though . . .

Not necessarily. Many courses abroad are done through English, with the Sciences being the main type.

TheyKnowMyIP

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Look at it this way, if you were to go on the dole, you would earn more than twice what I have in a week. For sitting on your hole.

Don't even lark about college students not doing anything, because by God, I would say I do equal, if not more hours than you in a week, plus hours upon god damn hours of assignments and study.

Currently, I can expect to do 44 hours of raw lectures, tutorials and labs in a week. Toss on another 20 hours for getting from Arklow to Bolton St and back, as I can't afford to live nearer. Ticket is 49.50€ a week.

I can also mark in a minimum of 15 hours of study and assignments a week, and its a goddamn miracle I get any sleep at all.

It is a ridiculous position to be in, when you're being told by someone on the internet, without a clue of your circumstances, that you should be paying for college, when you have to think long and hard about buying lunch for yourself, in case you'll run out of money.

Of course, somebody will probably make a rebuttal involving parents paying for college, but of course, my family is currently living slightly above sustainance level, due to my dad being dead, so I doubt I'll be able to continue college if fees are introduced. If your bitter about someone being in college, get over it, there's buck nothing dropping you from being a mature student.

Socialism is a form of legalised theft, as they say:)There are a certain number of people on the grant that should have never been given it. A drinking degree essentially. We have some very strange priorities in this country. Irish people hate to see anybody make something of themselves. We favour the Institution to provide. At least historically speaking. The dole should not be a ****ing life choice.

There is an incentive in this country to subsidise the criminally idle at the expense of those who seek to bring about actual wealth. This is wrong. We punish Enterprise in this country. It's amazing at all how we attract foreign investment at all. I am all for social welfare, provided it's carried out in a fair manner and isn't preached as a life choice.

Cill Dara Abu

conno3001 wrote: »

I'm working every Friday and Saturday night 11pm - 8am as a Night porter, I go to college 5 days a week 9-5. Perhaps some students can afford to go out 4-5 nights drinking every week but to generalise like that is just ridiculous. I'm barely keeping my head above water as it is, not all of us come from homes that can afford to support their kids. If it was not for the grant I doubt I would have the means and the stamina to go to college for four years. I come from a one parent family, my mother has a low wage job, she doesn't support me financially nor could she.

So please, don't give me that ****e.

You work 18 hours p/w and you are getting a state grant, what more do you want?

PseudoFamous

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Then leave college and go on the dole if it's that handy?

No thanks, I'd rather make something out of my life than just be a freeloader.

Cill Dara Abu

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Socialism is a form of legalised theft, as they say:)There are a certain number of people on the grant that should have never been given it. A drinking degree essentially. We have some very strange priorities in this country. Irish people hate to see anybody make something of themselves. We favour the Institution to provide. At least historically speaking. The dole should not be a ****ing life choice.

There is an incentive in this country to subsidise the criminally idle at the expense of those who seek to bring about actual wealth. This is wrong. We punish Enterprise in this country. It's amazing at all how we attract foreign investment at all. I am all for social welfare, provided it's carried out in a fair manner and isn't preached as a life choice.

Agree!

There are people in college claiming a grant that really have no interest in bettering themselves, I was talking to a girl one night and she was saying how much she hated been in college and her early morning lectures, I said sure why don't you leave then, she replied "oh, I'm too young to get a job, I have the grant so I want to enjoy myself for a few years first". :rolleyes:

amacachi

PseudoFamous wrote: »

No thanks, I'd rather make something out of my life than just be a freeloader.

If you could stop bitching about it while you're at it that would be just swell.

TheyKnowMyIP

amacachi wrote: »

If you could stop bitching about it while you're at it that would be just swell.

He made a very valid point. Your argument would have credence had he made more than one post on the topic.

Cill Dara Abu

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

He made a very valid point. Your argument would have credence had he made more than one post on the topic.

Is there a post limit before someone can post?