Pheasants

Alan 1990

Hi lads, I'm a bit unsure of something so maybe someone can let me know what they think. Basically earlier this year I've obtained writin permission to shoot on land but the local gun club have rights to it. There is a good number of pheasants on the land am I in my right to shoot a couple if I want to? I mean no more than 2 or 3, I don't pull the trigger to anything and everything I have in sight.
Cheers

It wasn't me!

Nothing legally to stop you. Gun club may not like it much though. Personally, if it's gun club land or immediately adjacent, I'd leave them, but I have some ground where they've strayed a long way from any club land to get to and I have no issues with whacking them there. I'd say it to the club though if you can, I doubt they'd mind you taking a bird or two for the pot over the season.

Cass

My thinking behind it would be that you have shooting rights to the land as given to you by the land owner. Pheasants are property when under lock and key, but when released the gun club cannot control who shoots them. I mean we release a couple of hundred every year and between members from surrounding clubs, and individuals with shooting rights, etc we loose birds to non-members. We cannot stop them. No more than they can stop us when we shoot a bird that has ventured onto our lands.

Your position is slightly different in that you share the lands, but i still think you are "in the clear" if you shoot them. You cannot identify if a bird is wild or pen raised when on the wing. So basically i think you are sound. If your feeling a bit "guilty" you could always offer to chip in towards the cost of the birds, but really thats your decision and AFAIK there is no "legal" obligation for you to do so.

landkeeper

the easiest way to reason it is to imagine yourself in their shoes !
they buy rear and look after birds ( i assume .if they don't then disregard this)
do predator and vermin control throughout the year
then someone who knows the landowner comes along and shoots some of their birds now i know you have said only an odd one but as far as they will be concerned every shot is a pheasant
if it were me i'd go and have a chat to them explain the situation maybe offer to join the club if possible
it might just save some serious argument on a sunday morning and maybe you'll get less punctures when parked :cool:

Browning2010

Legally your grand, but morally I'm not sure?

Put your self in there shoes, how would you feel?

Spunk84

As it was said you have permission to shoot on the land, as for the Gun club I'd say they won't be happy. I was pricing adult cocks the other night and there going from 10-15e so if you shoot say 10 birds this season that's alot of money which the gun club have used in feed, pen rearing time, buying poults and medicine for the birds you shoot. I wouldn't approach the club or tell anyone you shoot their birds. If you do shoot a pheasant put it into your bag and walk on, it's not a good thing to say but the amount of crap you will get off a GC for taking their birds will be unreal, personally i would not be happy to see a non member taking birds off our GC land.

Or on the other hand Join the gun club, if they say no then tell them you have their land to shoot over and would like to pay towards the birds you shoot I'd say they will let you in then

dicky82

landkeeper wrote: »

the easiest way to reason it is to imagine yourself in their shoes !
they buy rear and look after birds ( i assume .if they don't then disregard this)
do predator and vermin control throughout the year
then someone who knows the landowner comes along and shoots some of their birds now i know you have said only an odd one but as far as they will be concerned every shot is a pheasant
if it were me i'd go and have a chat to them explain the situation maybe offer to join the club if possible
it might just save some serious argument on a sunday morning and maybe you'll get less punctures when parked :cool:

PUNCTURES??? anyone who does this should have their shooting rights or club membership revoked. i had a run in with a fully fledged member of the w####r brigade last summer, i have permission to shoot the land from the owner and this individual told me if he saw my car parked up he'd slash my tyres and put my windows in. if thats the attitude of people how doo they expect lads to approach clubs to join??

Spunk84

dicky82 wrote: »

landkeeper wrote: »

the easiest way to reason it is to imagine yourself in their shoes !
they buy rear and look after birds ( i assume .if they don't then disregard this)
do predator and vermin control throughout the year
then someone who knows the landowner comes along and shoots some of their birds now i know you have said only an odd one but as far as they will be concerned every shot is a pheasant
if it were me i'd go and have a chat to them explain the situation maybe offer to join the club if possible
it might just save some serious argument on a sunday morning and maybe you'll get less punctures when parked :cool:

PUNCTURES??? anyone who does this should have their shooting rights or club membership revoked. i had a run in with a fully fledged member of the w####r brigade last summer, i have permission to shoot the land from the owner and this individual told me if he saw my car parked up he'd slash my tyres and put my windows in. if thats the attitude of people how doo they expect lads to approach clubs to join??

Dicky the man is right, it's sad to say but tire slashing is norm for unknown folks shooting on GC land.... Nearly had it done on me one fine Sunday by farmer who didn't know my car. You do get the odd idoit in every gun club who take upon themselves to be an "Enforcer" of the club, threatening people, sabotaging non members property etc etc but they will always meet the wrong person in a field and end up getting bollacks knocked out of them.

kildare.17hmr

shoot away lad but dont be greedy! If your approached by club members just explain you have permission and be nice. Cant tell you what to do if they are pricks to ya (which they more than likely will be) but i know what id do

Farmlife

Do you go onto this land to shoot vermin that could potentially kill there birds? you owe it to yourself to have a pop at one or two

EPointer=Birdss

Legally you can shoot.
Morally to be honest it bugs the hell out of me! Its irrelevant if they are club birds or not! If it wasn't for the lads doing vermin control & putting out feed there would be NO pheasants after a couple of seasons. We have experimented over the years & when we didn't release birds or keep on top of vermin bird numbers were near to nothing & we always had a good shake of them every other year. We have shot a good few birds this year already on the perimeter of club lands none of which have had our tags yet. (no neighbouring clubs) These are the result of vermin control & the amount of hens we also release & it's great to see wild birds.
You may have the best intentions to only take 1 or 2 but you will be the minority. I'd ask have you actually tried to join the club? If so did you try & join in Feb/ March when the work starts & not October when the fun starts.
My advice ethically, try & join the club, help out & enjoy your shooting or attain permissions on NON-club grounds to save yourself the grief & leave the lads be after they've spent alot of time & money for their hobby.
Also if your shooting 2 or 3 only then your best bet is to go with someone with a dog as 2 or 3 over 3 months is wasting a dog...

EP

greylag

i would say def no! to release say 400 birds would cost in the region of 3000 quid (between buying birds and food) and a hell of a lot of work. it simply would not be fair on the genuine lads that went to the bother of keeping a gunclub going and getting birds out on the ground and for a lad to come in and shoot them would be not on. it would lead to a mother of a row. also, as happened in my club, the farmer would be told straight away that if an accident occured on his land by a non member, the farmer is liable unless you have your own personal insurance, the farmer concerned then duely withdrew his written permission.

Alchemist2

I am in a similar situation but to counter any arguments i took a picture of the birds i released out onto each permission... at the end of the day as has been said its the farmers decision who he/she allows to shoot... i actually have one permission from a farmer who withdrew his substantial amount of land from a club because they tried to tell him that only their club members could shoot... i agree with guys saying that its disheartening to club members watching non members shoot "their" birds as they perceive them but at the end of the day there's sod all can be done.. go and buy a few birds if you wish 12euro from fiach dowling for adult pheasants as an example, release them show whatever club committee a photo to give yourself peace of mind ... just a suggestion

charlie10

well thats the reason i joined the local club as to avoid any awkward meetings in the field, plus when you r in the club you get to become friends with lads who r willing to show you some good bird country and vice versa. in our club there is lads who actually own lots of land so i wouldn like to be a non member and have that awkward meeting with them.

snipeface

Alan 1990 wrote: »

Hi lads, I'm a bit unsure of something so maybe someone can let me know what they think. Basically earlier this year I've obtained writin permission to shoot on land but the local gun club have rights to it. There is a good number of pheasants on the land am I in my right to shoot a couple if I want to? I mean no more than 2 or 3, I don't pull the trigger to anything and everything I have in sight.
Cheers

Does the farmer know it's Pheasants you're after and not vermin?
A lot of farmers give lads they know permission " to shoot " without realising they will be shooting Pheasants.

pheasntstalker

let the gc know u have permission to shoot the land,offer to pay a few quid towards feed,or try and join ,do abit of vermin control.and spunk who or where in the name of bubba ,are you pricing adult cocks for 10-12euros off we get adult cock phezzies at 5euro per bird:D

greylag

what time of the year are you buying adult cock pheasants at for €5??? i doubt it this time of the year

Birdnuts

greylag wrote: »

what time of the year are you buying adult cock pheasants at for €5??? i doubt it this time of the year

I saw some on Donedeal for them prices a few weeks ago - no idea of the quality but they can be had.

Alan 1990

Thanks for the replies lads, yeah I do vermin control I do shoot most days magpies mainly and do the odd bit of foxing at night but my set up isn't really fox suitable but if I got one in close enough it does the job the rifle is a cz 452 .22lr. I don't have to worry about tyre slashing thankfully as it's not too far from the house so I walk. I do think if I were approached the member would be a w****r though and I can understand where he is coming from but if I am doing vermin control regularly and it's an odd bird or two I can't see a problem really. Thanks for clarifying that for me lads.

Spunk84

pheasntstalker wrote: »

and spunk who or where in the name of bubba ,are you pricing adult cocks for 10-12euros off we get adult cock phezzies at 5euro per bird:D

greylag wrote: »

what time of the year are you buying adult cock pheasants at for €5??? i doubt it this time of the year

If your buying adult birds at a fiver this time of the year please tell me were:eek: price wise there all running at 10-15e

pheasntstalker

we getting them off a lad from donegal, and the birds are pretty good an in good shape,we,ve bein getting off him for the last 3yrs:) we,re hopein to start rearing our own from nxt yr,we tryin to get prices for phoults

Hunter21

I'd say shoot away but don't get too greedy, but find out what local rules are about club members shooting the land. My local club your only allowed shoot game on weekends and 1st of November and no shooting Xmas day. So take your choice what you do, give the birds a chance during the week maybe? It else take a walk during the week for one for the pot

Alan 1990

Hunter21 wrote: »

I'd say shoot away but don't get too greedy, but find out what local rules are about club members shooting the land. My local club your only allowed shoot game on weekends and 1st of November and no shooting Xmas day. So take your choice what you do, give the birds a chance during the week maybe? It else take a walk during the week for one for the pot

Don't worry I have no intentions of being greedy I'd only take 2 or 3 no more during the whole season I mainly shoot vermin on the land there is a lot of magpie and grey crows around. Also a heap of big buzzards but there fully protected and I'd never point a gun at them let alone pull the trigger.

good logs...

I dont think any one would mind you takeing a brid or two.

kildare.17hmr

good logs... wrote: »

I dont think any one would mind you takeing a brid or two.

must be all sound lads in the gun clubs in your area! Alot of them think they own the land and no one else can step foot on it let alone shoot on it. My mate has land in cork that a gun club had permission on, he was out shooting during the summer when he was down for a weekend and got hassle off a few lads in the club. He pulled the permission and told them to **** off. Fools lost alot of land for the club

wildfowler94

Just Join the club man, I don't understand why alot of people give out about lads in clubs giving out and sabotaging non club members. im not in anyway condoning criminal activity, put lets face it I know how hard clubs work to rear birds and the cost of it as well as vermin control. bullets cartridges fuel as well as listening to the missus all adds up, and for someone to stroll up and have a blast at birds pisses me off. im a club secretary so I know this. We all have to look after our own bit!
Clubs can be a great social outlet, aswell as a great way to meet like minded lads, clay shoot and pigeons in the summer, help full advice , shooting game vermin and wildfowl and more importantly insurance and abit of craic, so lad take my advice join the club have no worries and only craic.

WF

charlie10

that about sums it up wildfowler well said:D

Alchemist2

What if the club is running a closed shop policy like alot of clubs here in laois? all well and good lads(and im not relating to guys here btw) complaining about non members shooting birds on their club lands but the same clowns wont allow guys in that aren't living in the catchment area but yet may have alot of permissions in common

oats 2

do most clubs hold a policy of weekend only shooting?just wondering cause tis shoot all week here an the competition between few lads is comical. they are running from billy to jack all week trying to snap up birds.all bought birds that are only released.yeah they did buy birds but the race is on.

wildfowler94

Alchemist2 wrote: »

What if the club is running a closed shop policy like alot of clubs here in laois? all well and good lads(and im not relating to guys here btw) complaining about non members shooting birds on their club lands but the same clowns wont allow guys in that aren't living in the catchment area but yet may have alot of permissions in common

Most clubs although not all have a policy of locals only that is people living in the parish are originally from there or have lad there ring the nargc tell them your area and they'll put you in contact with your local club there will be no problem if your from there.

WF

Spunk84

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Most clubs although not all have a policy of locals only that is people living in the parish are originally from there or have lad there ring the nargc tell them your area and they'll put you in contact with your local club there will be no problem if your from there.

WF

From what ive heard it doesnt matter if your born in the parish or own the parish, its who you know rather than what you know to get into most GC. Complete Joke the way some clubs are run

Alan 1990

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Just Join the club man, I don't understand why alot of people give out about lads in clubs giving out and sabotaging non club members. im not in anyway condoning criminal activity, put lets face it I know how hard clubs work to rear birds and the cost of it as well as vermin control. bullets cartridges fuel as well as listening to the missus all adds up, and for someone to stroll up and have a blast at birds pisses me off. im a club secretary so I know this. We all have to look after our own bit!
Clubs can be a great social outlet, aswell as a great way to meet like minded lads, clay shoot and pigeons in the summer, help full advice , shooting game vermin and wildfowl and more importantly insurance and abit of craic, so lad take my advice join the club have no worries and only craic.

WF

I have tried to join the club but because I'm newish to the area (4years) I don't know anybody really so nobody could second me. I really wanted to so I could meet like minded lads but I was turned down unfortunately this was in spring. Sorry I don't know why I didn't mention this before I didn't think of it. I will try again next year if I meet a lad that can second me. I haven't shot any yet to be honest I'm mainly out at night with the rifle for rabbits for the freezer and if I see a fox well and good I do do a good bit of vermin control so I'm sure the club would appreciate that.

Alan 1990

Spunk84 wrote: »

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Most clubs although not all have a policy of locals only that is people living in the parish are originally from there or have lad there ring the nargc tell them your area and they'll put you in contact with your local club there will be no problem if your from there.

WF

From what ive heard it doesnt matter if your born in the parish or own the parish, its who you know rather than what you know to get into most GC. Complete Joke the way some clubs are run

Sorry was typing when you sent this. I know exactly what you mean that's the impression I got from them anyway.

Alchemist2

WF, sorry if you misunderstood my post,the suggestion was made in reply to the original post to try and join the club who's lands he was shooting.. maybe they wont allow him! i have alot of land i can shoot i choose not to be in my "local" club as here's the laughable part, my parish has a club but their lands are almost non existent i think they rent some forestry and one or two small farms allow the club to shoot..my point was that i shoot land that is in neighbouring parishes i know i cant get into those clubs as they operate a closed door policy to "outsiders"..

wildfowler94

All I can suggest lads is get out there show them clubs how hard you will work for them and get chatting the locals contact the nargc if the door really closed one you.

WF

Cass

greylag wrote: »

............it simply would not be fair on the genuine lads that went to the bother of keeping a gunclub going and getting birds out on the ground and for a lad to come in and shoot them would be not on............

How about the clubs themselves? In most/ a lot/ some clubs 5% of the lads do 100% of the work. My club is relatively new, and between me and 4 other lads we do all the work. The rest show up on the 1st, shoot throughout the season, then aren't seen again until an event, pub night, fund raiser, meeting, etc. Its not ideal, but we need members, and until better/more members come along its what we have.

Also we have no problem with non-members taking a few birds. We will not fall into the same trap as a local (now non-existant club) did a few years back. They ran two old boys that had permission, but were not members. The old boys got talking to the landowners over a pint one night, word spread, and within two weeks the club had all it's permissions revoked. End of club.

snipeface wrote: »

Does the farmer know it's Pheasants you're after and not vermin?
A lot of farmers give lads they know permission " to shoot " without realising they will be shooting Pheasants.

Most if not all farmers i know don't care once you ask, and have insurance.

Alchemist2 wrote: »

What if the club is running a closed shop policy like alot of clubs here in laois?

There is the problem. Some clubs have genuine reasons for limiting numbers, refusing members, etc. Others simply have a closed door policy until its "one of the lads" then they're free to join.

I am not of the opinion that you have to be a member of a club. Hence the reason the Gardai accept permission letters. Also some birds will always be lost. Granted if it were dozens of lads shooting non-stop then it would be a problem, but for one or even two lads taking a few birds, well frankly i don't see why so many get worked up.

Had the OP not posted he could have shot happily away without all this. Also with the club refusing to allow him to join, then i say to hell with the club. Legally they cannot stop him so if they won't play ball shoot away without guilt. Its not a case of the club is always right. They have to give too. Too many clubs have the idea that they are master and commander of the lands they shoot. They aren't.

So personally i would shoot away, and if you want then join the club, but if they keep blanking you or refusing to let you join forget them. Once you have permisions you're sorted.

Alan 1990

Ezridax wrote: »

greylag wrote: »

............it simply would not be fair on the genuine lads that went to the bother of keeping a gunclub going and getting birds out on the ground and for a lad to come in and shoot them would be not on............

How about the clubs themselves? In most/ a lot/ some clubs 5% of the lads do 100% of the work. My club is relatively new, and between me and 4 other lads we do all the work. The rest show up on the 1st, shoot throughout the season, then aren't seen again until an event, pub night, fund raiser, meeting, etc. Its not ideal, but we need members, and until better/more members come along its what we have.

Also we have no problem with non-members taking a few birds. We will not fall into the same trap as a local (now non-existant club) did a few years back. They ran two old boys that had permission, but were not members. The old boys got talking to the landowners over a pint one night, word spread, and within two weeks the club had all it's permissions revoked. End of club.

snipeface wrote: »

Does the farmer know it's Pheasants you're after and not vermin?
A lot of farmers give lads they know permission " to shoot " without realising they will be shooting Pheasants.

Most if not all farmers i know don't care once you ask, and have insurance.

Alchemist2 wrote: »

What if the club is running a closed shop policy like alot of clubs here in laois?

There is the problem. Some clubs have genuine reasons for limiting numbers, refusing members, etc. Others simply have a closed door policy until its "one of the lads" then they're free to join.

I am not of the opinion that you have to be a member of a club. Hence the reason the Gardai accept permission letters. Also some birds will always be lost. Granted if it were dozens of lads shooting non-stop then it would be a problem, but for one or even two lads taking a few birds, well frankly i don't see why so many get worked up.

Had the OP not posted he could have shot happily away without all this. Also with the club refusing to allow him to join, then i say to hell with the club. Legally they cannot stop him so if they won't play ball shoot away without guilt. Its not a case of the club is always right. They have to give too. Too many clubs have the idea that they are master and commander of the lands they shoot. They aren't.

So personally i would shoot away, and if you want then join the club, but if they keep blanking you or refusing to let you join forget them. Once you have permisions you're sorted.

That's great thanks i wasnt aware most clubs are reluctant to take new members in. I think I'll try join the club up where my parents live in Dublin just to get more permissions if nothing else to be honest I don't think I'll go near the last lot again took them over a month to give me an answer (a month after handing in the application and paying the fees) I got the money back but still was a bit cheesed.

amadain

Any Pheasant ON THE MENU in Dublin restaurants ?

terminator2

dicky82 wrote: »

PUNCTURES??? anyone who does this should have their shooting rights or club membership revoked. i had a run in with a fully fledged member of the w####r brigade last summer, i have permission to shoot the land from the owner and this individual told me if he saw my car parked up he'd slash my tyres and put my windows in. if thats the attitude of people how doo they expect lads to approach clubs to join??

what part of kilbride were u in dicky:D