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Bicycle fines for running a red light?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭✭ Jawgap


    You could try this:-

    Jambalap: That man is guilty! That man, there, that man is a slime! he is a *slime*! If he's allowed to go free, then something really wrong is goin' on here!

    Judge : Mr. Jambalap you are out of order!

    Jambalap: You're out of order! You're out of order! The whole trial is out of order! They're out of order! That Garda! He *told* me so! It's just a show! It's a show! It's "Let's Make A Deal"! "Let's Make A Deal"! Hey Frank, you wanna "Make A Deal"? I got an insane judge who likes to beat the **** out of women! Whaddya wanna gimme Frank, 3 weeks probation?

    Garda: *Dammit!*

    Jambalap: I]to Garda[/I You, you sonofabitch, you! You're supposed to *stand* for somethin'! You're supposed to protect people! But instead you prosecute them between breakfast rolls and Mars Bars!
    I]dragged out of court by bailiffs[/I

    Jambalap: You killed McCullough! You killed him! Hold it! Hold it! I just completed my opening statement!


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭✭ jambalap


    I am not worried about the fine. I just don't want conviction on my record as I have clean record until now. Is there any way I request judge to pay in to court poor box rather than having conviction or will judge not bother to give me that much time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭ stevemac


    jambalap wrote: »
    I am not worried about the fine. I just don't want conviction on my record as I have clean record until now. Is there any way I request judge to pay in to court poor box rather than having conviction or will judge not bother to give me that much time?

    if its your first offence then that would be the most likely outcome.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,592 ✭✭✭ Tenzor07


    jambalap wrote: »
    I am not worried about the fine. I just don't want conviction on my record as I have clean record until now. Is there any way I request judge to pay in to court poor box rather than having conviction or will judge not bother to give me that much time?

    It's not a criminal offence! You will get some sorta fine, thats about it...


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,318 ✭✭✭ Mycroft H


    jambalap wrote: »
    I am not worried about the fine. I just don't want conviction on my record as I have clean record until now. Is there any way I request judge to pay in to court poor box rather than having conviction or will judge not bother to give me that much time?


    Even though its a summary offense in front of a district court judge, it still results in a criminal record. Tough luck really, given that its an 80 euro fine and two penalty points and no criminal record in a car. But thats the law and nothing we can really do about it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭ Seve OB


    BX 19 wrote: »
    Even though its a summary offense in front of a district court judge, it still results in a criminal record. Tough luck really, given that its an 80 euro fine and two penalty points and no criminal record in a car. But thats the law and nothing we can really do about it.

    Who ever said he even has a driver licence so how can he be awarded points?
    What happens when he gets 12, does he loose his bike?

    Be interesting to see the outcome


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,793 ✭✭✭ peteb2


    stevieob wrote: »
    BX 19 wrote: »
    Even though its a summary offense in front of a district court judge, it still results in a criminal record. Tough luck really, given that its an 80 euro fine and two penalty points and no criminal record in a car. But thats the law and nothing we can really do about it.

    Who ever said he even has a driver licence so how can he be awarded points?
    What happens when he gets 12, does he loose his bike?

    Be interesting to see the outcome
    As previously mentioned in the the thread when he gets a licence the points will be applied then! So theoretically if gets 12 he's disqualified!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,318 ✭✭✭ Mycroft H


    stevieob wrote: »
    Who ever said he even has a driver licence so how can he be awarded points?
    What happens when he gets 12, does he loose his bike?

    Be interesting to see the outcome


    Whoa there, I never said he had a license. I was merely pointing out that if the same offense was committed in a car the penalty would not result in a criminal record as it was a fixed charge + penalty points

    However similar things were done in the past albeit no penalty points were imposed.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/injured-cyclist-gets-driving-ban-for-breaking-red-light-2228117.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭ levitronix


    As boring as it sounds i just read through most of the road traffic act
    there only seem to be 3 sections with reference to cyclists

    1 is a garda may demand your name and if they feel you gave a wrong name take the bike
    2 cycling while drunk or on drugs
    3 holding onto a car or other vehicle while cycling

    so how can you get a summons or fine for anything else ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,318 ✭✭✭ Mycroft H


    levitronix wrote: »
    As boring as it sounds i just read through most of the road traffic act
    there only seem to be 3 sections with reference to cyclists

    1 is a garda may demand your name and if they feel you gave a wrong name take the bike
    2 cycling while drunk or on drugs
    3 holding onto a car or other vehicle while cycling

    so how can you get a summons or fine for anything else ?

    It's classified as a vehicle under the road traffic act and so many of the other areas also apply to it


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭ levitronix


    Can someone actually show me where ?

    i can only find this mechanically propelled vehicle” means, subject to subsection (2) of this section, a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including—
    (a) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,
    (b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical,


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ galwaycyclist


    levitronix wrote: »
    Can someone actually show me where ?

    i can only find this mechanically propelled vehicle” means, subject to subsection (2) of this section, a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including—
    (a) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,
    (b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical,

    In Irish law, a bicycle (or "pedal cycle") a vehicle. This is the definition of driving from one Road Traffic Act (1961)
    "driving" includes managing and controlling and, in relation to a bicycle or tricycle, riding, and "driver" and other cognate words shall be construed accordingly;


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭ levitronix


    my 23month old has a tricycle


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ galwaycyclist


    levitronix wrote: »
    my 23month old has a tricycle

    Yes - and somewhat perversely, Irish traffic law draws absolutely no distinction between the two of you. If we lived in Germany your 23month old would, up till the age of nine, have a permission to cycle on footpaths.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    Yes - and somewhat perversely, Irish traffic law draws absolutely no distinction between the two of you. If we lived in Germany your 23month old would, up till the age of nine, have a permission to cycle on footpaths.

    In Ireland you can cycle on footpaths until the age of 16 if memory serves correctly.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ galwaycyclist


    CramCycle wrote: »
    In Ireland you can cycle on footpaths until the age of 16 if memory serves correctly.

    Not correct I'm afraid. The age of legal responsibility is 12. There is no such provision in Irish law and I am lead to believe that if a child under that age is involved in an incident while cycling on the footpath their guardian may be liable for damages.

    Edit: I have an "opinion" somewhere to this effect but not with me at mo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭ Dermighty


    If you cycle on the road then obey the rules of the road, even as a pedestrian I'm sick **** of cyclists nearly knocking me down as they go through red lights.

    I cycle on the road and I stop at red lights.

    If your light was amber then its hard luck but the garda was right to stop you if the pedestrian light was green, wish they'd do that more to car drivers too.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    Not correct. The age of legal responsibility is 12. There is no such provision in Irish law and I am lead to believe that if a child under that age is involved in an incident while cycling on the footpath their guardian may be liable for damages.

    I honestly could not remember, I thought it was 16 but since I am not sure i'll say nothing. Presumably a childs guardian is responsible for any damages caused by them regardless of where they are cycling.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭ paddyandy


    Fines on the spot a great idea .Bikes are a real danger everywhere .


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    paddyandy wrote: »
    Fines on the spot a great idea .Bikes are a real danger everywhere .

    Bikes are not dangerous, I have yet to see a bike attack anyone. Maybe you meant to say cyclist, the same way some people might (incorrectly) accuse all car drivers of being dangerous and unobservant, instead of accusing cars, cars tend to do very little until people go near them.

    That said if you did mean cyclist, be careful, you are generalising, in quite an over the top manner that will not be well received in this forum.

    A more truthful point may have been that a minority of cyclist behave in a way that could be dangerous to themselves and the general public, the same way that a minority of the general public behave in a way that could be dangerous to themselves and the general public.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,318 ✭✭✭ Mycroft H


    I'd support on the spot fines.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,592 ✭✭✭✭ tomasrojo


    Fixed-penalty notices seem the optimal solution to me.

    On the subject of red light-breaking, it occurs to me that there's an overlooked nuance. One conscientious motorist makes all motorists behind him look law-abiding. For example, motorists often do follow the motorist in front through a red light. However, once someone in the sequence decides enough is enough and stops, the motorists behind can't get past him to break the light, even if they want to. I stop for red lights on my bike, but that by no means prevents other cyclists from passing me and breaking the lights.

    I'm not saying that motorists would be as bad as cyclists for breaking red lights (their blithe disregard is generally for speed limits), but it's misleading to look at twenty cars stopped at a red light and see twenty unwaveringly law-abiding citizens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭ check_six


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    However, once someone in the sequence decides enough is enough and stops, the motorists behind can't get past him to break the light, even if they want to.

    While driving, I've been beeped a whole lot of times waiting at red filter lights when the lane I'm trying to cross is empty. I could go and it would potentially be safe, but doesn't that lead down the inevitable route of:

    "Well I should be allowed to do as I please, because I know I'm a good driver, and I'll be careful unlike the rest of those fools doing as they please!"

    The fact a car blocks a whole lot of road prevents a whole lot of shenanigans. Not all of them though. I got overtaken while trying to take a right hand turn in a narrow enough city street. I didn't think it was possible to squeeze past the oncoming cars and my own vehicle, but one loolah tried it. Furious revs and all!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,318 ✭✭✭ Mycroft H


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    The only cycle lanes with dedicated lights, as far as I know, are on the new Grand Canal facility, which, again, as far as I know, hasn't opened yet.

    I don't see them investing in dedicated lights for all cycle lanes. And most roads (I think) still don't have cycle lanes of any kind.


    Theres a few about. Couple of dedicated cycle lane lights along the n11


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ galwaycyclist


    Not correct I'm afraid. The age of legal responsibility is 12. There is no such provision in Irish law and I am lead to believe that if a child under that age is involved in an incident while cycling on the footpath their guardian may be liable for damages.

    Edit: I have an "opinion" somewhere to this effect but not with me at mo.

    Ok I dug this out its summarised from a legal opinion I sought in relation to a cycle training program I am putting together. These are the assumptions I work off - others will need to confirm these point with their own legal advisors. Also you can't second guess what position a court would take on these matters.
    Question: Can cyclists be held especially liable for damages in the event of collisions occuring while cycling unlawfully on a footway (footpath)?

    Answer: Yes. A cyclist would not be given any leeway when it comes to injury caused by their unauthorised use of a footpath or footway.

    Question: The age of legal responsibility in Ireland is 12 does this mean that children under the age of 12 cannot be prosecuted for cycling on footways?

    Answer: Yes there is a presumption that children under the age of 12 are not capable of committing an offence. For children between the ages of 12 and 14 there is a rebutable presumption that they are incapable of committing an offence.

    (Here is the sting in the tail for this one): Under the Childrens Act 2001 S.54 a person who aids, abets, counsels or procures an under age child to commit an offence is himself guilty of that offence and may be tried as the principle offender.

    Question: In the event that a child under the age of 12 is involved in a crash while using the footway, can that child or his/her guardian be pursued for damages?

    Answer: Yes


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭✭ jambalap


    was in court today with my lawyer for cycle breaking red. The first thing judge ask is are there any previous convictions. As I had none i was asked to pay 120 euro to the court poor box and the case was dismissed. Judge gave chance to every defendant in all the cases to explain from their side.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭ check_six


    What's the equivalent penalty for going through a red in a car?


  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭ rich.d.berry


    check_six wrote: »
    What's the equivalent penalty for going through a red in a car?

    It's a normal fixed penalty traffic offence and thus has a maximum of €120 (if you don't pay the €80 in the initial 30 day period) and 2 points.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭ paddyandy


    In Oireland we'll wait 20 years for any good idea to happen .Bikes hit people though fools control them .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭ shansey


    can anyone who has been through this tell me what kind of fine they go???


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