Charles Poliquin. Discuss.

thehamo

Since ive gotten back to the weight training, ive come across this guys name again and again. I got a body fat % done today by a guy who seems to live and breathe him. (Poloquin stength & conditoining coach etc) I also got a biosigniture thingie done which tells you about your carb intake, testosterone levels etc etc. Anyways, for the next 15 days, ive essentially to go on a paeleo diet, and every document I was sent about it was basically a poliquin document, with all information reffering you to his site. I was given a load of suppliments to get, from where ever I want even though he was telling me that poliquin suppliments are best.

Anyways, im gonna go with it for the next 15 days and see how it goes, but seems like his "graduates" are more like cult convertees.

SanoVitae

thehamo wrote: »

Seems like his "graduates" are more like cult convertees.

Bingo! I've had the misfortune of working with a whole gym full of Poliquin disciples who would start every sentence with "Charles says...."

Anything good that Poliquin advocates tends to be taken from somewhere else, e.g. the German Volume Training program he raves about.

The stuff he comes up with all by himself tends by and large to be total nonsense in my opinion.

For example, this:

Poliquin wrote:

Tip 116: Belly button rings or piercings disrupt body composition by interfering with the acupuncture meridian. Every single Biosignature seminar we get students to remove them. We had a Swedish woman here lose 44% of her hamstrings skin fold in three days, just by removing her belly button piercing.She went from 13.8 to 11.9% body fat in that sort amount of time.

thehamo

Jesus, if that were the case he'd cure the muffin top epidemic in Ballymun in a matter of days!:eek:

Hanley

Read the title - a lot of good stuff. Lots of bull****.

Burkatron

Doesn't practice what he preaches! My mate was on a plane to Copenhagen last week & Charles was in the seat beside him! The charlatan ate a Muffin!!!


It took all my restraint not to write Charlesatan!!!

Inspector Coptoor

He is a very special breed of charlatan z
Avoid.
That is all

Mellor

You went for a biosigniture assessment, which is basically a Poliquin affiliate. So no surprise the the documents and/or supps were Poliquin brand.
Thats like going to CF (or any branded fitness company) for an assessment and them recomending, CFHQ WODs or CFJ articles

SanoVitae

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

He is a very special breed of charlatan

Yes - the charlatan with BIG GUNS!

With that in mind, why wouldn't you blindly follow everything he recommends?

daveyc21

Excellent self promoter but pretty much like everyone else. Has some good stuff has some bad stuff...

Brian?

daveyc21 wrote: »

Excellent self promoter but pretty much like everyone else. Has some good stuff has some bad stuff...

I'd be interested to know what you think of his training methods. His supplementation and nutrition ideas are mostly off the wall but his training ethos seems sensible.

His programs and ideas are nothing new or original, probably why they're ok.

daveyc21

briankeating wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what you think of his training methods. His supplementation and nutrition ideas are mostly off the wall but his training ethos seems sensible.

His programs and ideas are nothing new or original, probably why they're ok.

I wouldnt make any comment on another trainers programming without having physically been there in the gym and seen it over a reasonable period as anything can be made look good or bad when taken out of context a good example is we had an athlete who was at a pretty high level but he couldn't squat comfortably due to elbow pain. We found bicep curls between sets relieved the discomfort. It would be easy for someone to take this in isolation and say programming in Ironside is useless they had an athlete doing bicep curls what good is that?

Mack_1111

I went on to his website and read about some of his claims. He references Wikipedia a lot!!!! Basically he's a bullshi**er

Mellor

So i don't see how referign to wiki that has all the sources rather than referign to the 100s of sources indivisually makes him a bull****ter
Some of the more obscure topics are open to abuse, but the science based ones, like phyisology, are pretty complete.

Brian?

daveyc21 wrote: »

briankeating wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what you think of his training methods. His supplementation and nutrition ideas are mostly off the wall but his training ethos seems sensible.

His programs and ideas are nothing new or original, probably why they're ok.

I wouldnt make any comment on another trainers programming without having physically been there in the gym and seen it over a reasonable period as anything can be made look good or bad when taken out of context a good example is we had an athlete who was at a pretty high level but he couldn't squat comfortably due to elbow pain. We found bicep curls between sets relieved the discomfort. It would be easy for someone to take this in isolation and say programming in Ironside is useless they had an athlete doing bicep curls what good is that?

That's fair enough. But I was talking more about the generalities than the specific programs he writes.

The articles on his website seem designed to say a simple thing in the most complicated way, example:

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/646/Top_Five_Reasons_to_Vary_Tempo_in_Your_Workout.aspx

That could have been written in a couple of paragraphs, but essentially he's right.

mushykeogh

Just read his " 5 reasons why aerobic training is bad for you" or whatever the exact title is. Well, its a load of pants. Applying results of studies on either overtrained individuals or chronically overtrained rats to the general population.

I have no doubt that the vast majority of people who read that junk automatically presume that the journals quoted back up his view. It bastardised physiology, applying results from specific studies to a general vaguely related topic, its presumptuous, tenuously linked bollix.

Fook me , tis a wonder there is a marathon runner left alive in Kenya with all the Cortisol and IL 6 they must be carrying around with them from the stress of aerobic training.

He does have big guns tho. (prick)

Hanley

mushykeogh wrote: »

Just read his " 5 reasons why aerobic training is bad for you" or whatever the exact title is. Well, its a load of pants. Applying results of studies on either overtrained individuals or chronically overtrained rats to the general population.

I have no doubt that the vast majority of people who read that junk automatically presume that the journals quoted back up his view. It bastardised physiology, applying results from specific studies to a general vaguely related topic, its presumptuous, tenuously linked bollix.

Fook me , tis a wonder there is a marathon runner left alive in Kenya with all the Cortisol and IL 6 they must be carrying around with them from the stress of aerobic training.

He does have big guns tho. (prick)

I know 2 PICP certified trainers who told me with 100% belief and a straight face, that LIT cardio was making me fat.

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

I know 2 PICP certified trainers who told me with 100% belief and a straight face, that LIT cardio was making me fat.

Jesus. I've only ever read his strength training articles, I didn't realise the nonsense went this deep.

SanoVitae

Hanley wrote: »

I know 2 PICP certified trainers who told me with 100% belief and a straight face, that LIT cardio was making me fat.

Let me guess. They pinched your cheek with a fat calipers and told you it was causing excess fat to be stored in your liver, yeah?

Because they are scientific like that....

SanoVitae

In fairness though, he does have some great fat loss tips for women.......

• Eat vegetables such as broccoli to minimize the fat on your glutes
• For your hips, stabilize your blood sugar levels by eating many small meals as well as less starchy carbs.
• To minimize fat on thighs, take indole-3-carbinol and phosphatidyl-choline.
• Avoid spinning - "Spinning will increase the storage of intramuscular and subcutaneous fat in the hip and thigh areas to provide a more readily available source of fuel for the muscles."
  
  
  
  http://www.ehow.com/how_5679065_lose-weight-hips-thighs.html
  
  

mushykeogh

SanoVitae wrote: »

In fairness though, he does have some great fat loss tips for women.......

[Avoid spinning - "Spinning will increase the storage of intramuscular and subcutaneous fat in the hip and thigh areas to provide a more readily available source of fuel for the muscles."

?????????? Jesus Christ. Those female cyclists must have serious fat asses.

SanoVitae

According to Chucky P logic, spinng makes you fat for the following reason:

"The body figures out, if I store fat there it reduces the time to get to the muscles to provide the energy source. Result: Kobe beef thighs and butt, all plump and marbled with fat inside."

http://fitmontclair.wordpress.com/2010/05/02/a-new-spin-on-fat-loss-or-why-i-need-the-oversized-gel-seat-on-my-bike/

TheZ

if you can spot store fat can you spot reduce fat

I think next fat loss craze will be something around activation of brown fatty tissue - so cryo chambers of some kind

daveyc21

briankeating wrote: »

That's fair enough. But I was talking more about the generalities than the specific programs he writes.

The articles on his website seem designed to say a simple thing in the most complicated way, example:

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/646/Top_Five_Reasons_to_Vary_Tempo_in_Your_Workout.aspx

That could have been written in a couple of paragraphs, but essentially he's right.

Ok sorry I thought you meant his entire training and nutrition ethos. I havent read a huge amount of his stuff except the funny nonsensical stuff but I have worked with a number of poliquin trainers in the past and have found that some stuff is good a lot has to be taken with a pinch a salt and above all
he somehow seems to instill an almost fervent following among people who have done any of his training courses.

d'Oracle

Bit like Paul Chek then?
Or Greg Glassman?

thehamo

Some good arguments here. He does seem to be off the wall. The one I was told about the asparagus really threw me off (if my urine smells after eating it, it means I cant break down folic acid efficiently, which will have an effect on my testosterone levels!):eek: news to me!

Anyway, that said, im following the diet laid down for me for the next two weeks. Christ he loves his suppliments. I feel like an aids vicitim taking all the pills in the morning. That, and burgers/chichken and spinach for breakfast is just wrong!

SanoVitae

d'Oracle wrote: »

Bit like Paul Chek then?
Or Greg Glassman?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0

Mack_1111

Mellor wrote: »

So i don't see how referign to wiki that has all the sources rather than referign to the 100s of sources indivisually makes him a bull****ter
Some of the more obscure topics are open to abuse, but the science based ones, like phyisology, are pretty complete.

Because he's making claims that he can't stand over:eek: He can't even verify the source. If the claims he makes about his pills were true (Insulin insensitive etc)they'd be medicines and he'd need FDA approval to sell them.

Brian?

daveyc21 wrote: »

Ok sorry I thought you meant his entire training and nutrition ethos. I havent read a huge amount of his stuff except the funny nonsensical stuff but I have worked with a number of poliquin trainers in the past and have found that some stuff is good a lot has to be taken with a pinch a salt and above all
he somehow seems to instill an almost fervent following among people who have done any of his training courses.

I'll be honest, up until now I only ever really read his "A question of Strength" series on T-Nation. That mostly seemed reasonable. The more I read of his stuff from his site, the more I realise what a whack job he is.

I'd be interested to know how he inspires such loyalty.

Mellor

Mack_1111 wrote: »

Because he's making claims that he can't stand over:eek: He can't even verify the source. If the claims he makes about his pills were true (Insulin insensitive etc)they'd be medicines and he'd need FDA approval to sell them.

Making bull**** claims makes him a bull****ter. Not the fact that the referenced wikipedia.
Unless of course the reference doesn't exist, which is back to bull****ting

d'Oracle

briankeating wrote: »

I'll be honest, up until now I only ever really read his "A question of Strength" series on T-Nation. That mostly seemed reasonable. The more I read of his stuff from his site, the more I realise what a whack job he is.

I'd be interested to know how he inspires such loyalty.

I'd not want to be repeating myself but.....

The same way Paul Chek, Greg Glassman, Mark Rippetoe, Dan John, Pavel Tetoffensive and whoever else does.

Some people just pick heroes.
They tie themselves to one guy and all he says is gospel.
Glassman, Chek and Pollinquin also make people pay to be "certified" by them and stick to their methods which usually include something peculiar to their methods, be it posture calibration, biosignature jeebies or self-superiority in mediocrity.

SanoVitae

d'Oracle wrote: »

The same way Paul Chek, Greg Glassman, Mark Rippetoe, Dan John, Pavel Tetoffensive and whoever else does.

Personally, I wouldn't put Dan John in the same category as the others when it comes to the very valid point you're making.

I agree about all the others.

Nice spelling of Pavel's surname btw!

d'Oracle

SanoVitae wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't put Dan John in the same category as the others when it comes to the very valid point you're making.

I'm fairly sure you didn't get the point I am making.

Brian?

d'Oracle wrote: »

I'm fairly sure you didn't get the point I am making.

I thought he did, the people you named have fanatical followers. Dan John is a slight exception as he is not full of ****e.

d'Oracle

briankeating wrote: »

I thought he did, the people you named have fanatical followers. Dan John is a slight exception as he is not full of ****e.

Yes, well sort of.
I don't think Pavel is "full of ****e". Dan John is CONSTANTLY crediting him. So if he is full of ****e, then Dan John is too.

Also, I know its SOOoooooo tragically cool to rag on Rippetoe these days, but I certainly don't think he is full of ****e. (I fully expect the same tired **** about his squat or something. For the person who starts that, I don't care what you think about it nor will I argue with you about it. Sorry.)

The point I was making was people tie themselves to Gurus.
Whether the Guru is making stuff up about fat stores or spends entire articles telling stories to flesh out 3 lines of content it is irrelevant to the point I made.

I intentionally put DJ in there cos 1) I knew somebody would illustrate the point by pointing it out and 2) Because there are tonnes of people who hang on his every word and tonnes of people who think he is full of ****.

Brian?

d'Oracle wrote: »

Yes, well sort of.
I don't think Pavel is "full of ****e". Dan John is CONSTANTLY crediting him. So if he is full of ****e, then Dan John is too.

Also, I know its SOOoooooo tragically cool to rag on Rippetoe these days, but I certainly don't think he is full of ****e. (I fully expect the same tired **** about his squat or something. For the person who starts that, I don't care what you think about it nor will I argue with you about it. Sorry.)

The point I was making was people tie themselves to Gurus.
Whether the Guru is making stuff up about fat stores or spends entire articles telling stories to flesh out 3 lines of content it is irrelevant to the point I made.

I intentionally put DJ in there cos 1) I knew somebody would illustrate the point by pointing it out and 2) Because there are tonnes of people who hang on his every word and tonnes of people who think he is full of ****.

Agreed, although I have no idea who this Pavel gentelman is.

It seems the way to make money in the fitness/S&C world is to generate some pseudo-scientific jargon, arrange seminars to brain wash hard working people with said jargon and then create an accreditation system based on the knowledge of it.

I just don't understand why intelligent people buy into these things without thinking analytically.

d'Oracle

briankeating wrote: »

I just don't understand why intelligent people buy into these things without thinking analytically.

I don't even mind that as much.
Just read around like.....

Pavel a self-styled "the Kettlebell guy". He has some other good stuff. He is a shameless self marketer and the result is some of the funniest **** you will see. Seems unfond of shirts too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUTBDNJd1_g

Hot Manly kettlebells.

Edwardius

Pavel wrote a **** ton of stuff about things other than hot manly handleballs, "beyond bodybuilding", "super joints", "relax into stretching" etc etc.

In the same vein as chucky P, I've heard folks answer questions with "pavel says..."
I don't think krazyball sport types have much time for him, but they're doing something different.