Ban Cheap Booze, says grieving dad...

Sofiztikated

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ban-cheap-booze-says-grieving-dad-2923079.html

Now, don't get me wrong, I feel sorry that they've lost a son.

But, there are other factors. Why not look into why he was suicidal? The suicide rates among young men are astronomical, but there seems to be fúck all done to remedy this.

I know, I know, it's a touchy subject. But the reasons people are suicidal should be targeted, not just the cause of their death. (Strawman argument warning) Shure, why not ban rivers, if he hadn't been near the river that night, etc etc.

MrStuffins

Also, ban all shoes that aren't slippy because his friend slipped and fell. Actually, f*ck it, let's ban gravity! if it wasn't for gravity he's have never fell!

I hate these bullsh*t reactions. The guy was depressed and suicidal. Banning cheap drink isn't going to help anyone. ven after the kid died they're not interested in the causes of his problems. Or in his problems at all!

mikemac

For the lazy like me
Oh and those on moblies

HEARTBROKEN father whose son died by suicide after a drink-fuelled night out has called for a ban on the below-cost selling of alcohol.

David Higgins (21), of Shanahee Heights, Ballina, Co Mayo, drowned in the early hours of March 13 after leaving a house party. He was last seen walking along the Lower Bridge in Ballina at approximately 6.30am.

His body was discovered 14 days later after an extensive search of the River Moy.

Earlier, a close friend accidentally slipped and fell into the river while searching for David's body and also drowned.

On the night of his son's death, John Higgins phoned David at 3am to see where he was and discovered he was on his way to a house party.

When David did not return, his mother Anne phoned him again at 5am and spoke to him, but when the couple tried phoning him again an hour later David was too upset to talk.

The worried parents began a frantic search for their son while phoning him on his mobile.

"David answered but did not speak -- then Anne let out a scream. David had left the phone down by the bridge, and while Anne was on the phone she heard somebody in the background shout, 'He is in the river'," said Mr Higgins.

The River Moy was at high tide on the night of David's death and the current was running fast -- despite two passing gardai noticing somebody in the river, they could not reach him.

A major search of the river was conducted, involving the Garda Water Unit, the Coast Guard, the Irish Navy, fisherermen and scores of local volunteers.

Four days after David went missing, a double tragedy befell the family when Mr Higgins's lifelong friend, Tommy Helly, tragically drowned while searching the river bank.

"Tommy was an amazing friend and he thought the world of David," Mr Higgins told the Irish Independent.

David's body was eventually found in four metres of water on March 27, by the Garda Water Unit.

Speaking to the Irish Independent just days after an inquest into David's death returned a verdict of death by suicide and named alcohol as a contributory factor, Mr Higgins said something should be done to curb the drinking habits of young people.

Plague

He is calling for tighter regulation in relation to the cost of alcohol in supermarkets and off-licences.

He said alcohol had become so cheap it could be purchased with pocket money, and encouraged house parties, which had become a "plague on Irish society".

"The combination of cheap alcohol and all-night house parties presents a danger for young people. At least in a pub, there is a barman who can tell you if you have had too much, but there is no duty of care at a house party," he said.

He said the inquest into his son's death did not provide him with any clarity as to what had occurred prior to David's death.

"Without a doubt, if David had come home that night after the pub he would be alive now."

TheZohanS

Looks like he wants to ban house parties too. Feel sorry for him but the cost of booze has zero to do with suicide.

Uriel.

I Couldnt agree more OP... All rivers and water courses should be banned.

But yeah, in all seriousness, the finger is being pointed in the entirely wrong direction here.

anyone_local

There's plenty of people who have left pubs and jumped into rivers without going to house parties

MrStuffins

anyone_local wrote: »

There's plenty of people who have left pubs and jumped into rivers without going to house parties

There are also lots of people who have jumped into rivers without having a drop of alcohol!

Of course there was probably something else to blame in these cases. Cheap cakes perhaps?

Sofiztikated

mikemac wrote: »

For the lazy like me
Oh and those on moblies

Cheers, first time posting a news link, wasn't sure how to do it.

Pisses me somewhat. Oh, suicide? Quick find something to blame.

Here's a mad idea. Talk to your fúcking children, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, whatever. If you see there is something up with them, get them the help they need. I know it's not all that easy, and sometimes these things just happen, but there's a reason, not someones/things fault these happen.

fran oconnor

Very sad story, but like people have said already, its easy to put the blame on something else instead of facing the real truth. The chap more than likely had problems, could his father not try to drum up more help for people that are feeling suicidal??.

anyone_local

MrStuffins wrote: »

anyone_local wrote: »

There's plenty of people who have left pubs and jumped into rivers without going to house parties

There are also lots of people who have jumped into rivers without having a drop of alcohol!

Of course there was probably something else to blame in these cases. Cheap cakes perhaps?

Cheesecake...a silent killer in our community. In all seriousness though the attitude to suicide in this country is disgraceful. Appreciating the work auntie gaybo and the rsa do, the amount of people who commit suicide each year is 2-3 times the rate of road deaths

Duckjob

Sofiztikated wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ban-cheap-booze-says-grieving-dad-2923079.html

Now, don't get me wrong, I feel sorry that they've lost a son.

But, there are other factors. Why not look into why he was suicidal? The suicide rates among young men are astronomical, but there seems to be fúck all done to remedy this.

I know, I know, it's a touchy subject. But the reasons people are suicidal should be targeted, not just the cause of their death. (Strawman argument warning) Shure, why not ban rivers, if he hadn't been near the river that night, etc etc.

Agree.

It's the easy, and lazy option to just demonise the stimulus of the moment whether it be alcohol, violent films, violent video games etc etc. instead of confronting and tackling the uncomfortable societal reasons why a young person feels they have no options other than to take their own life.

mawk

His dad isn't a publican is he?

Chuck Stone

I feel sorry for that man and his son must have been very distraught if he took his own life. It must be a truly horrible experience for all involved/

---

I can see some ambitious knob-end of a politician maybe trying to run with this idea of making everyone pay more for drink, increasing the tax take and exploiting a tragedy for their own C.V.

Just ban water.

The Internet Explorer

A truly tragic story.


EDUCATION.

EDUCATION.

EDUCATION.

mikemac

If the guy watched a dark film and did this after the cinema the father would blame the film.
When I was a young lad Mortal Kombat was to blame for violence.

And here we are, families don't talk and the father is hurt so is finding every possible input except the one that the family didn't solve this by talking

He said alcohol had become so cheap it could be purchased with pocket money, and encouraged house parties, which had become a "plague on Irish society".

Alan Shatter probably looking at this and will bring in legislation and liability for the householder of parties :eek:

"The combination of cheap alcohol and all-night house parties presents a danger for young people.

Suicide was always an issue in Ireland, one rarely discussed though.
Before alcohol was dirt cheap in supermarkets there was a man in every area who made poitín.
Having said that poitín wasn't dirt cheap either, it was about six punts a bottle

Plazaman

...and named alcohol as a contributory factor.

Oh handy dandy, let's not bother to investigate the sequence of events in the poor lads life in the days or weeks in the run up to his death. The tar all with one brush will do. He was out drinking must be alcohol.

It seems the fact his parents were worried enough about him to ring him at 3am, 5am and 6am seems to be conveniently overlooked so they must have had noticed something (not placing blame on them but I'm not looking to ban parents either).

We're losing a generation of our young people to suicide with not a jot being done about it. Sickening.

newmug

Ah FFS people, his Dad does have a point. Like it or not, alcohol IS a depressant! If you are depressed, or prone to depression, its a big no-no. At the very least, it should be restricted to people who fit into that category.

Sam Kade

anyone_local wrote: »

There's plenty of people who have left pubs and jumped into rivers without going to house parties

Exactly, the extra cost of the drink in the pub didn't prevent them from doing it either.

This country is turning very like the US when some thing goes wrong blame someone else :rolleyes:

Crazy Horse 6

Feel very sorry for the man but absolutely no reason to ban cheap booze.

Sofiztikated

newmug wrote: »

Ah FFS people, his Dad does have a point. Like it or not, alcohol IS a depressant! If you are depressed, or prone to depression, its a big no-no. At the very least, it should be restricted to people who fit into that category.

That's the key here.

They're not putting any cause to the fact that he may have been prone to depression. No, it's the booze. :rolleyes:

sensibleken

newmug wrote: »

Ah FFS people, his Dad does have a point. Like it or not, alcohol IS a depressant! If you are depressed, or prone to depression, its a big no-no. At the very least, it should be restricted to people who fit into that category.

What, like in order to buy booze you have to have a special happy card or be wearing a hawaiian shirt?

MrStuffins

newmug wrote: »

Ah FFS people, his Dad does have a point. Like it or not, alcohol IS a depressant! If you are depressed, or prone to depression, its a big no-no. At the very least, it should be restricted to people who fit into that category.

He's not looking at the big picture though. He should be talking about the causes of his son's suicide rather than alcohol!

If you honestly think the rest of us adults shouldn't be allowed to drink cheap alcohol just because this clown isn't smart enough to realise his son had underlying problems then you're off the head!

Sam Kade

newmug wrote: »

At the very least, it should be restricted to people who fit into that category.

How exactly do you suggest that would work? If a depressed man goes into a pub or supermarket how will the publican or retailer know that he suffers from depression?

Chuck Stone

newmug wrote: »

At the very least, it should be restricted to people who fit into that category.

Can you imagine trying to set up such a system?



We need less rules and regulations in this country not more.

MrStuffins

sensibleken wrote: »

What, like in order to buy booze you have to have a special happy card or be wearing a hawaiian shirt?

"Barkeep, i've had a bad day. I had to work late so I missed the football. Pour me a stiff one"

- "Whoa whoa whoa...... you're slightly unhappy? How am I supposed to know you won't f*ck yourself in the river? No drink for you Doctor Depresso!!"

sensibleken

MrStuffins wrote: »

"Barkeep, i've had a bad day. I had to work late so I missed the football. Pour me a stiff one"

- "Whoa whoa whoa...... you're slightly unhappy? How am I supposed to know you won't f*ck yourself in the river? No drink for you Doctor Depresso!!"

easily sorted by a law stating every pub must have a puppy. you would never see a barfight again.

Freddie59

MrStuffins wrote: »

Also, ban all shoes that aren't slippy because his friend slipped and fell. Actually, f*ck it, let's ban gravity! if it wasn't for gravity he's have never fell!

I hate these bullsh*t reactions. The guy was depressed and suicidal. Banning cheap drink isn't going to help anyone. ven after the kid died they're not interested in the causes of his problems. Or in his problems at all!

Jesus. I hope it always keeps fine for you my friend. As you're an impulsive twenty-something I suppose we'll have to cut you some slack. A "bull$h!t reaction" (your own phraseology) from a devastated and grieving parent??? You cannot even begin to comprehend what is going through that man's mind.

He is probably right. Alcohol HAS become far too cheap. No two ways about it. Was it responsible for that poor chap's death? Hard to tell.

But I really wish that posters would consider their statements - especially in the case of a traumatic death - before posting them on ANY forum.

It is truly disgusting IMHO.

Snakeblood

sensibleken wrote: »

easily sorted by a law stating every pub must have a puppy. you would never see a barfight again.

Two puppies! We can have dogfights instead!

Freddie59

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Cheers, first time posting a news link, wasn't sure how to do it.

Pisses me somewhat. Oh, suicide? Quick find something to blame.

Here's a mad idea. Talk to your fúcking children, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, whatever. If you see there is something up with them, get them the help they need. I know it's not all that easy, and sometimes these things just happen, but there's a reason, not someones/things fault these happen.

Fcuk. Now we're all psychologists as well? This thread should be locked. The sentiments being posted about that misfortunate parent are truly appalling.

fran oconnor

Snakeblood wrote: »

Two puppies! We can have dogfights instead!

I'd rather see the drunk twats beat the crap out of each other..

Freddie59

MrStuffins wrote: »

He's not looking at the big picture though. He should be talking about the causes of his son's suicide rather than alcohol!

If you honestly think the rest of us adults shouldn't be allowed to drink cheap alcohol just because this clown isn't smart enough to realise his son had underlying problems then you're off the head!

FFS will you give it a rest.

MrStuffins

Freddie59 wrote: »

Jesus. I hope it always keeps fine for you my friend. As you're an impulsive twenty-something I suppose we'll have to cut you some slack. A "bull$h!t reaction" (your own phraseology) from a devastated and grieving parent??? You cannot even begin to comprehend what is going through that man's mind.

it IS a bull**** reaction. This guy, while grieving, knows quite well that people don't just get drunk and deside to throw themselves in the river. He really should be looking at why his son REALLY did this and not trying to ban trivial things so he'll feel a little better.

But I really wish that posters would consider their statements - especially in the case of a traumatic death - before posting them on ANY forum.

I DID consider it. it's a bullsh*t reaction.

It is truly disgusting IMHO.

You need to be less sensitive IMO.

Freddie59 wrote: »

Fcuk. Now we're all psychologists as well? This thread should be locked. The sentiments being posted about that misfortunate parent are truly appalling.

Bit of an over reaction. You don;t like it so think everybody else should be stopped from discussing it? What gives you the right?

Sam Kade

Freddie59 wrote: »

Fcuk. Now we're all psychologists as well? This thread should be locked. The sentiments being posted about that misfortunate parent are truly appalling.

Yes I agree with you. What he posted is BS. I know of people that committed suicide and no one around them had any idea that there was anything wrong with them.

sensibleken

Snakeblood wrote: »

Two puppies! We can have dogfights instead!

I would set your balls on fire if you started a dog fight.

MrStuffins

Freddie59 wrote: »

FFS will you give it a rest.

It's very possible that if he was willing/able to recognise that his son had a problem, he could've done something about it. Maybe his son would still be alive? Maybe?

However, he didn't. And even after his son threw himself in a river he refused to look any deeper than "It was the drink's fault". It's ridiculous thinking IMO.

MrStuffins

Sam Kade wrote: »

Yes I agree with you. What he posted is BS. I know of people that committed suicide and no one around them had any idea that there was anything wrong with them.

As do I.

But did they go ahead then and blame something trivial? Or did they look into the causes of the suicide?

Sam Kade

MrStuffins wrote: »

As do I.

But did they go ahead then and blame something trivial? Or did they look into the causes of the suicide?

Yes I agree. But I was referring to the poster that said his father should have known beforehand that his son was suicidal.

sensibleken

just an observation here. If this poor kid was a celbrity, radio presenter or even a traitorous former finance minister, nobody would be able to say anything critical or anything other than a respectful RIP without being carded.

Sofiztikated

Freddie59 wrote: »

Fcuk. Now we're all psychologists as well? This thread should be locked. The sentiments being posted about that misfortunate parent are truly appalling.

What sentiments have I posted about the parent?

I'm sorry for his parents, I truly am. What I'm saying is suicide needs to be dealt with, and talked about. And not behind peoples backs.

Surpress it all you want, the only way we are going to deal with the suicide issue is to actually talk about it.

MrStuffins

Sam Kade wrote: »

Yes I agree. But I was referring to the poster that said his father should have known beforehand that his son was suicidal.

Really? Can you show me where this was said?

Freddie59

MrStuffins wrote: »

it IS a bull**** reaction. This guy, while grieving, knows quite well that people don't just get drunk and deside to throw themselves in the river. He really should be looking at why his son REALLY did this and not trying to ban trivial things so he'll feel a little better.

How can ANYONE know why he really did this. And as I've said, you cannot even imagine what this man is going through. Has anyone close to YOU committed suicide?

MrStuffins wrote: »

I DID consider it. it's a bullsh*t reaction.

No you didn't. Full stop.

MrStuffins wrote: »

You need to be less sensitive IMO.

Less sensitive? Maybe you need to be a little more sensitive and develop an appreciation of the subject at hand.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Bit of an over reaction. You don;t like it so think everybody else should be stopped from discussing it? What gives you the right?

Compassion gives me the right. What gives you the right to castigate this man? Because there are pi$$heads out there who think alcohol is the be all and end all, it is to be defended at all costs?

Think before you post. And consider what those parents are going through. And pray that it will never ever happen to you or yours.

fran oconnor

MrStuffins wrote: »

He's not looking at the big picture though. He should be talking about the causes of his son's suicide rather than alcohol!

If you honestly think the rest of us adults shouldn't be allowed to drink cheap alcohol just because this clown isn't smart enough to realise his son had underlying problems then you're off the head!

TBF, its not that easy to just find out whats wrong, sometimes people in these suicidal situations give very little away. I think calling his father a clown after the loss of his son is a little bit low tbh.

Snakeblood

sensibleken wrote: »

I would set your balls on fire if you started a dog fight.

No no, I'm quite seriously saying we should get two puppies in a room and let them fight it out as god intended.

Freddie59

Sofiztikated wrote: »

What sentiments have I posted about the parent?

I'm sorry for his parents, I truly am. What I'm saying is suicide needs to be dealt with, and talked about. And not behind peoples backs.

Surpress it all you want, the only way we are going to deal with the suicide issue is to actually talk about it.

The sentiments. Talk yes - castigate this misfortunate person in defence of alcohol? No.

Freddie59

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's very possible that if he was willing/able to recognise that his son had a problem, he could've done something about it. Maybe his son would still be alive? Maybe?

However, he didn't. And even after his son threw himself in a river he refused to look any deeper than "It was the drink's fault". It's ridiculous thinking IMO.

How do YOU know this? And feel qualified to comment on it?????

Sofiztikated

See, this is why we can't have nice things. Quit ****ing bickering.

MrStuffins

Freddie59 wrote: »

How can ANYONE know why he really did this. And as I've said, you cannot even imagine what this man is going through. Has anyone close to YOU committed suicide?

I know what the man is going through. It would be healthier for him to find the actual causes of his son's suicide rather than blaming something arbitrary.

No you didn't. Full stop.

Yes I did. You just disagree with what I said. Your arrogance in thinking you can speak for me is ridiculous.

Less sensitive? Maybe you need to be a little more sensitive and develop an appreciation of the subject at hand.

The subject at hand is a father blaming cheap alcohol on suicide. It's not true. Cheap alcohol is not a cause of suicide. His theory is bullsh*t.

Compassion gives me the right. What gives you the right to castigate this man? Because there are pi$$heads out there who think alcohol is the be all and end all, it is to be defended at all costs?

Nope. it's nothing to do with pissheads. it's to do with what's sensible. You can't just ban cheap alcohol because one man wrongly blamed it on his son's suicide.

Think before you post. And consider what those parents are going through. And pray that it will never ever happen to you or yours.

I am considering what the parents are going through. It must be terrible.

it still doesn't mean his theory that drink drove his son to suicide is right. there was an underlying problem that he is completely ignoring.

Jaysoose

I think your missing the point of his posts nobody here is saying that this isnt anything other than a tradegy but the kneejerk reaction of our media to latch onto this story because the grieving father is blaming alcohol for his sons suicide when there could be a million other contributing factors is wrong.

And he is perfectly entitled to post his opinion on the sunject wether he has gone through it or not imo.

Its yet more poor journalism by this rag of a paper that the main focus of the article is cheap booze. They are practically saying cheap booze causes suicide when it clearly doesnt.

MrStuffins

fran oconnor wrote: »

TBF, its not that easy to just find out whats wrong, sometimes people in these suicidal situations give very little away. I think calling his father a clown after the loss of his son is a little bit low tbh.

Ok, maybe I shouldn't have called him a clown. I apologise for that!

But just because it's not easy to find out what's wrong, doesn't mean you should stick the blame on something arbitrary

Freddie59

MrStuffins wrote: »

I know what the man is going through. It would be healthier for him to find the actual causes of his son's suicide rather than blaming something arbitrary.




Yes I did. You just disagree with what I said. Your arrogance in thinking you can speak for me is ridiculous.



The subject at hand is a father blaming cheap alcohol on suicide. It's not true. Cheap alcohol is not a cause of suicide. His theory is bullsh*t.




Nope. it's nothing to do with pissheads. it's to do with what's sensible. You can't just ban cheap alcohol because one man wrongly blamed it on his son's suicide.



I am considering what the parents are going through. It must be terrible.

it still doesn't mean his theory that drink drove his son to suicide is right. there was an underlying problem that he is completely ignoring.

You're backtracking - thankfully. At least use the proper tone when discussing this misfortunate parent and his son. Maybe if you could direct some of your (obvious) love of alcohol towards them it might lighten things a bit.

Freddie59

MrStuffins wrote: »

Ok, maybe I shouldn't have called him a clown. I apologise for that!

But just because it's not easy to find out what's wrong, doesn't mean you should stick the blame on something arbitrary

I take my hat off to you. Seriously.:)