Two days to giving away €718 million!

Biggins · 31-10-2011 11:21pm #1

We are just two days away before we give away €718 million (see here).

Now I know there are supposed good reasons for doing this but somehow it don't sit right with me.
Honestly, would anyone be willing to say why we should be going ahead with this massive payout?
It just seems madness at first and second glance - is there someone that can say there is justifiable reason/benefit to our nation to be doing this in two days?

I'm still not convinced they are doing the right thing!

TheZohanS · 31-10-2011 11:24pm

FG are the very same as that last shower of wasters.

Elohim · 31-10-2011 11:25pm

I thought only amounts in the billions were discussed these days.

cosanostra · 31-10-2011 11:26pm

Its about choices and this government are choosing to bail out Goldman sachs for their gambles and close our hospitals!

RepublicanEagle · 31-10-2011 11:27pm

Am I the only one who thought this had something to with the lotto?

dlofnep · 31-10-2011 11:28pm

We shouldn't pay them one single penny. They are unguaranteed bonds and we don't owe them even the courtesy of a smile. Especially not when public services are being hit. The current shower is just as bad as Fianna Fáil was.

SEPT 23 1989 · 31-10-2011 11:29pm

It would sit a lot easier with me if the bankers and politicians who caused this disaster were dead or serving life sentences for crimes against the State

galwayrush · 31-10-2011 11:29pm

Better to spend some of it buying some decent pairs of balls for our leaders.

SeaFields · 31-10-2011 11:29pm

RepublicanEagle wrote: »

Am I the only one who thought this had something to with the lotto?

I thought biggins had come into money and had two days to give it away. I is disappoint.

Chuck Stone · 31-10-2011 11:31pm

How do we stop them?

laoch na mona · 31-10-2011 11:34pm

with bricks

cosanostra · 31-10-2011 11:34pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

How do we stop them?

As constantine said on vinb double tap to the head

Chuck Stone · 31-10-2011 11:38pm

Could someone take out an injunction to prevent it or something?

At least that would draw attention to it.

Lord Trollington · 31-10-2011 11:39pm

Who are the bondholders exactly???

dlofnep · 31-10-2011 11:39pm

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Who are the bondholders exactly???

We will never know.

MungBean · 31-10-2011 11:40pm

I brought this up in the Irish Economy forum and from what I could ascertain the bank is obliged to pay it both in respect to how banks operate and how the ECB wants us to deal with senior bondholders.

I'm all for giving bondholder the fingers and letting them go to hell and I dont think there is anything that says the bailout or emergency bank funds will be affected if we burn them but at the same time its proceeds from the sale of Anglo assets and senior bondholders seem to be first in line to benefit from that. Its not about what benefit it will have or to who its about what Anglo is obliged to do with the proceeds of the sale of assets.

Thats how I understood it anyway. Personally I'd keep it and tell the bondholder and ECB to fcuk each other.

Biggins · 31-10-2011 11:41pm

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Who are the bondholders exactly???

That was asked today by a few people in the media.
So far no one has clearly said I think - but part of me is suspicious to think that many a mate of a politician or a politician themselves might be part of those awaiting this payout.

Seaneh · 31-10-2011 11:44pm

they are unsecured bonds, they are not guarenteed a return, the bonds aren't preforming, they holders shouldn't expect a return, they are in no way entitled to a return.

They knew the rules going into it, they should accept them now and either sell up or ride it out and hope for a return later.

31-10-2011 11:44pm

Who cares? It's 5% of the size of our deficit and it's a condition of our bailout which we need to keep our massive deficit (and country) going.

GET YOUR PRIORITIES RIGHT, PEOPLE.

Seaneh · 31-10-2011 11:46pm

Kadongy wrote: »

Physically stop it from happening.
No time for any other approach.
Find out what needs to physically happen and physically obstruct that from happening.

Short of storming the Dail and abducting the cabinet I don't think there is any of physically stopping it, it's not like there will be trucks full of cash driving onto ferries and delivering the money to the bond holders....

Mr Trade In · 31-10-2011 11:46pm

The bank in question is defunct, their money is gone, lost in the void that is hedge fund lala land,they should get nothing. It is clearly stated on every ad for investment banking the value of your investment may go up or down and you could suffer a loss.

TheZohanS · 31-10-2011 11:46pm

Biggins wrote: »

That was asked today by a few people in the media.
So far no one has clearly said I think - but part of me is suspicious to think that many a mate of a politician or a politician themselves might be part of those awaiting this payout.

Mostly the German banks, they were falling over themselves to loan to Irish banks in the boom.

MungBean · 31-10-2011 11:48pm

Seaneh wrote: »

they are unsecured bonds, they are not guarenteed a return, the bonds aren't preforming, they holders shouldn't expect a return, they are in no way entitled to a return.

They knew the rules going into it, they should accept them now and either sell up or ride it out and hope for a return later.

They are not guaranteed by the state but they do stand to recoup the bond if the bank has sufficient assets to cover it when wound down. The guaranteed bondholders were covered no matter what and paid with state money. This isnt state money we are talking about its proceeds from the sale of Anglo assets.

ilovesleep · 31-10-2011 11:48pm

Sickening.

Seaneh · 31-10-2011 11:48pm

TheZohan wrote: »

Mostly the German banks, they were falling over themselves to loan to Irish banks in the boom.

Banks own most of the unsecured bonds?

Not likely mate.

Mr Trade In · 31-10-2011 11:49pm

Isn't Roman Abramovich one of those involved in this?

Seaneh · 31-10-2011 11:50pm

MungBean wrote: »

They are not guaranteed by the state but they do stand to recoup the bond if the bank has sufficient assets to cover it when wound down. The guaranteed bondholders were covered no matter what and paid with state money. This isnt state money we are talking about its proceeds from the sale of Anglo assets.

The proceeds of the sale of anglo assets IS state money now.

Seaneh · 31-10-2011 11:51pm

Mr Trade In wrote: »

Isn't Roman Abramovich one of those involved in this?

Could be, no way to know.

Kadongy · 31-10-2011 11:54pm

Mr Trade In wrote: »

Isn't Roman Abramovich one of those involved in this?

He likes to take money from countries with bad economies and stupid governments and give it to people who are good at football.

bnt · 31-10-2011 11:55pm

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Who are the bondholders exactly???

As the article suggests - bonds are assets which can be sold on, whole or in part. It's likely that other banks are on the hook, and if so, they won't exactly want to advertise that fact, will they?

A failure to pay out on a bond on schedule would be like you failing to pay your credit card bill on time: depending on the contract, you could be liable for extra charges, and your credit rating will take a knock. Ireland's credit rating has already taken some knocks: it means that if the govt. wants to borrow money in the future (by issuing another bond), the interest rate will be higher. Giving bondholders a haircut is not without consequences.

Biggins · 31-10-2011 11:57pm

Mr Trade In wrote: »

Isn't Roman Abramovich one of those involved in this?

Its appears possible so - and whats more, it appears that he threatened to sue if he didn't get his money!

See for example: http://www.google.com/search?q=Roman%20Abramovich%20bond%20holder%20threats#hl=en&sa=X&ei=hyevTs7wPIbJhAeZhZGYBg&ved=0CBYQBSgA&q=Roman+Abramovich+bondholder+threats&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=19557f1f637173eb&biw=1024&bih=1165

Two days to giving away €718 million!

Is giving away the money the right thing to do? 256 votes

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