About good music

dilbert2

This is something I've been hearing a lot throughout the years, stuff along the lines of "music isn't what it used to be", or "music just gets worse with every decade" etc etc. But is it really getting any worse, or do we just get a bit grumpy with age and like a good winge now and then?

For instance, stuff that you would listen to from the 90s, or have in your record/ cd/ computer music collection is most likely a fraction of what actually went on back in the 90s. Most likely, there was as much crap been released back in the 90s, or any other decade (including the 60s etc), its just that you don't hear them anymore, whereas todays crap music we are forced to listen to.

I know what constitutes crap music is subjective, but you get the idea of the argument.

Saila

correct, its all the x factor rubbish, good music is still there its just its harder to hear and not as in your face

Yakult

disposable music, I don't like it.

mrbango

That's it exactly. People look at what's out there today and compare it to what was there over the period of a decade. Sure isn't the best of every decade is going have a lot more to offer than what's in the charts in at moment.

Also did anyone see the southpark episode. Classic:D

Sonics2k

Music taste is all relative.

For example most of my albums I actively listen to are all from about '98 to '03.
I reached that age where I listen to new bands and think "That's not music, that's bloody horrible!!" which is ironic because I know people who were saying the same thing to me 10 years ago :P

geetar

music is all personal taste, ones mans beethoven is another mans blink182.


however, it goes without saying music is shíte today :pac:


id listen to fleetwood mac over rihanna any day.

RichieC

music isn't getting crapper, we're getting older and more cynical.

Wolfe Tone

I'm 20, the latest release I have is Whitesnakes last release, Forevermore. I have an absolute sh!t load of music on my PC, all 70s, 80s and early 90s metal and rock. I can't stand chart music, sh!te like Rhianna, Lady Gaga and all that bollocks.

IMO the music from that time period, 70s 80s and 90s, is far superior to todays sh!te, or maybe its just that the type of music I like was much more popular then.

Captain Chaos

Ever since R&B became the hip new thing to be into all music has taken a dive. Personally I blame MTV.

MungBean

RichieC wrote: »

music isn't getting crapper, we're getting older and more cynical.

It is gettin crapper, you can pick out the remnants of older genres and the odd talented person but for the most part its watered down classics or stretched out jingles.

Theres very few people in the business who can actually write a great song these days. Thats why ya see so many re-releases and covers. Too many bands/"artists" rely on other peoples work to sell their own.

Whatever about a type of music you dont like you can still see a song as good. All in my humble opinion of course.

Sinfonia

The best of the music of the past is dearly treasured and remembered, while most of the rest (from the mediocre to the downright terrible) is forgotten.

That's why you mostly hear about Bach, Handel, Mozart & Haydn in reference to eighteenth-century music. There were a lot more than four working composers in that hundred-year time period.

MungBean

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Ever since R&B became the hip new thing to be into all music has taken a dive. Personally I blame MTV.

Its a mixture of everything. Its no longer about being an artist its about being a celebrity. x-factor/weslife and all that shíte is just karaoke and nothing else. All about brand with these people, if you can sell something based on what you name is then sell it. Before you actually needed to have some talent to sell your stuff.

RichieC

MungBean wrote: »

It is gettin crapper, you can pick out the remnants of older genres and the odd talented person but for the most part its watered down classics or stretched out jingles.

Theres very few people in the business who can actually write a great song these days. Thats why ya see so many re-releases and covers. Too many bands/"artists" rely on other peoples work to sell their own.

Whatever about a type of music you dont like you can still see a song as good. All in my humble opinion of course.

people make the mistake of mixing up the music industry with the recording industry..

MungBean

RichieC wrote: »

people make the mistake of mixing up the music industry with the recording industry..

They are the same thing.

bodhrandude

MungBean wrote: »

It is gettin crapper, you can pick out the remnants of older genres and the odd talented person but for the most part its watered down classics or stretched out jingles.

Theres very few people in the business who can actually write a great song these days. Thats why ya see so many re-releases and covers. Too many bands/"artists" rely on other peoples work to sell their own.

Whatever about a type of music you dont like you can still see a song as good. All in my humble opinion of course.

I agree everyone is re-doing the classics, originality is going out the window and the death of self penned composition, there is still great bands and musicians out there, its just that every Tom, Dick & Harry is encouraged to emulate their hero and history just repeats. All I can say is thank god for the Electric Picnic festival which documents most of the good stuff.

Executive Steve

In this thread - bitter nerds who don't like music, and boring people who can't relate to anything that they didn't like when they were 17.

TimeToShine

MungBean wrote: »

They are the same thing.

No they aren't, these days to sell music you need charisma, good looks and a good TV personality. A talented musician is almost nothing without these.

Kojak

Ever since Richie Kavanagh wasn't making number 1 hits, music has nose-dived rapidly.

Bring back Richie I say!!!!!!

Temptamperu

There was crap music in the 50's 60's 70's 80's 90's and the 00's we only remember the good stuff or at least try to.

Saila

Executive Steve wrote: »

In this thread - bitter nerds who don't like music, and boring people who can't relate to anything that they didn't like when they were 17.

so which one are you then?

MungBean

TimeToShine wrote: »

No they aren't, these days to sell music you need . A talented musician is almost nothing without these.

They are the same thing, the music industry incorporates the recording industry. These days you dont even need talent you just "charisma, good looks and a good TV personality". You just need to be presentable to the audience and then record other peoples songs and your a famous "artist".

Colm!

Music is great. If you don't like music that's made with 12 year old girls as a target audience, stop bitching about the X Factor and go listen to whatever it is that you actually like. If you're ranting about how music has been crap since the 80s, go listen to some bands that use 80s influence. No type of music has "died" entirely. They've just gotten an awful lot less popular and won't be on the radio except for some odd late night show. Find a good internet radio station, get on Grooveshark, maybe sign up to Last.fm and use the internet to find new stuff.

I quite like a lot of new music, even some of the poppy shite is good at times. But only some of it, and only at times...

RichieC

MungBean wrote: »

They are the same thing, the music industry incorporates the recording industry. These days you dont even need talent you just "charisma, good looks and a good TV personality". You just need to be presentable to the audience and then record other peoples songs and your a famous "artist".

why are you agreeing yet still contradicting? makes no sense...

GLaDOS

Popular music is ****e now, there's still plenty of good music being made though.

Dudess

If we're talking purely pop music, it's definitely gotten drasticallly worse.

losthorizon

Personally I think music goes through stages. For long periods its dull and uninteresting and then bands and groups react and you get reinvention. For instance the period 1968 to about 1974 was incredible and then dross for about five years. It took punk and new wave to kick start it again.

They are showing Top of the POPS on BBC 4 from 1976 regularly and its dross for the main part.


A reaction will happen against this X factor mush dont worry.

MungBean

RichieC wrote: »

why are you agreeing yet still contradicting? makes no sense...

I'm confused as to who I'm agreeing with and disagreeing with. To be honest I dont even know who I'm talkin to half the time.

I thought you meant that the recording industry wasnt the music industry and that I seen music today as crap because its just musical entertainment as opposed to the recording industry which was original recordings, art if you will.

So I just pointed it out its all the same and the recording industry is just part of the music industry which has turned into pure entertainment and the "art" of music has been left behind not just by the front end but also by the recording industry.

Am I still contradicting myself ? Cos I'm still confused.

Dudess

losthorizon wrote: »

Personally I think music goes through stages. For long periods its dull and uninteresting and then bands and groups react and you get reinvention. For instance the period 1968 to about 1974 was incredible and then dross for about five years. It took punk and new wave to kick start it again.

They are showing Top of the POPS on BBC 4 from 1976 regularly and its dross for the main part.


A reaction will happen against this X factor mush dont worry.

Yeah the 70s post glam and pre punk was shockingly bad. A very Leo Sayer world...

Logical Fallacy

Saila wrote: »

correct, its all the x factor rubbish, good music is still there its just its harder to hear and not as in your face

It's not really harder to hear though, the internet makes good music very easy to find.

emo72

losthorizon wrote: »

Personally I think music goes through stages. For long periods its dull and uninteresting and then bands and groups react and you get reinvention. For instance the period 1968 to about 1974 was incredible and then dross for about five years. It took punk and new wave to kick start it again.

They are showing Top of the POPS on BBC 4 from 1976 regularly and its dross for the main part.


A reaction will happen against this X factor mush dont worry.

I remember the early nineties was full of dross like 2 unlimited and black box and cotton eyed Joe and I'm blue ba da be ......really rotten ****e. Then nirvana came and...well...you know saved music. Where will the next nirvana come from?

Logical Fallacy

emo72 wrote: »

I remember the early nineties was full of dross like 2 unlimited and black box and cotton eyed Joe and I'm blue ba da be ......really rotten ****e. Then nirvana came and...well...you know saved music. Where will the next nirvana come from?

There was a lot of interesting stuff happening before Nirvana...hell, them "saving music" didn't even happen until Nevermind broke...and even then the band themselves had issues with the fact that the album had basically been produced and mastered from a pop perspective.

GLaDOS

losthorizon wrote: »

For instance the period 1968 to about 1974 was incredible and then dross for about five years. It took punk and new wave to kick start it again.

Late 70's saw Pink Floyd release Wish You Were here, Animals and The Wall, considered some of the best albums ever. Then There's the likes of Rush - 2112/Farewell to Kings, Camel - The Snow Goose/Moonmadness, Thin Lizzy - Jailbreak/Black Rose.

Great time for music.

Donald_ducked

Music and the scene has changed so much over the years. Very few 'Great Bands' have been created since the 90's imo

The 50's had Elvis and Chuck Berry

The 60's had The Beatles, Hendrix and Dylan

The 70's had Zeppelin,Queen, Rolling Stones, ac/dc and The who

The 80's had U2, Micheal Jackson,Guns N Roses and Bowie

The 90's had Oasis, Radiohead, Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Metallica

The difference between those eras and now is that all the artists listed above were mainstream and accessible to everybody. Now you have to look a lot harded to find decent music

pragmatic1

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Ever since R&B became the hip new thing to be into all music has taken a dive. Personally I blame MTV.

Eh. RnB goes back decades and some of the finest music ever created has come from that genre.

Logical Fallacy

Donald_ducked wrote: »

The 90's had Oasis, Radiohead, Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Metallica

I'd put MetallicA in the 80's considering they formed in 81 and released "Kill Em All", "Ride the Lightning", "Master of Puppets" and "...Justice For All" before 1990.

Dotrel

Donald_ducked wrote: »

Music and the scene has changed so much over the years. Very few 'Great Bands' have been created since the 90's imo

The 50's had Elvis and Chuck Berry

The 60's had The Beatles, Hendrix and Dylan

The 70's had Zeppelin,Queen, Rolling Stones, ac/dc and The who

The 80's had U2, Micheal Jackson,Guns N Roses and Bowie

The 90's had Oasis, Radiohead, Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Metallica

The difference between those eras and now is that all the artists listed above were mainstream and accessible to everybody. Now you have to look a lot harded to find decent music

The difference is the internet imho. It's made life more distracting, music acts less important and simultaneously made the music itself easier to acquire but harder to find.

These days I don't even know who the hot acts are (let alone what their music sounds like). I wouldn't even know where to look. I've been out of touch since John Peel died. The whole pool is too deep now and without focus. As a result I don't even care enough to look anymore.

WinstonOno

there is still great music out there, you just wont hear it on radio or tv anymore. pop music just aint what it used to be. pop music by its present day definition is dead. it used to the early beatles, abba, bee gees, kinks, aha, undertones, etc. its now more about appearances, fashion, etc. in this day and age, the ability to write a good pop song wont guarantee you any success, if you dont look the part, you wont make it. just look at the charts, everyone in it is beautiful. are beautiful people the only ones who can sing??? no. are they only ones who can write a song??? no. but they are the only ones who can make it nowadays. some of them cant even sing eg. rihanna. x-factor is the lowest of all. guys like simon cowell make a **** load of money by doin virtually nothing. all they do is set up a stage and let these idiots that 'love music so much, its all i ever wanted to do' but never bothered to learn an instrument or spend years gigging and learning their craft. whats most worrying is that record companies are now targeting other genres outside of the pop mainstream. acts like lana del ray, ellie goulding, christina perri, are pretty much the same as katie perry and lady gaga, but are slipped in under the radar with supposed credible backgrounds, but are also just wannabes backed by teams of stylists, songwriters, producers, etc. I fear, as the years progress more and more will appear, and indie, rock, alternative, etc will begin to die also. there is still great real music out there, with a bit of digging on the internet, at live gigs, etc, forget chart music, dont be a targeted consumer.

Irish Guitarist

Manufactured music is worse than it used to be.

In the sixties there was The Monkees. The likes of Neil Diamond used to write songs for them and Glen Campbell and James Burton played guitar for them. Even though the results were great The Monkees weren't happy with not having a lot of input on their records so they started to write their own songs and play their own instruments. They did a pretty good job of it too.

Now singers that appear on X Factor are happy to stay manufactured and don't seem to display any ambition to ever do anything but sing whatever their record company tells them to.

Cover versions stick too closely to the original now. Elvis gets a lot of stick for not writing his own songs, but when he covered a song he performed it completely differently to the original. Listen to his version of Hound Dog and the original by Big Mama Thornton or his version of That's All Right Mama and the original by Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup. Now when someone covers a song they do it the same as the original, except not as good.

Then there's Autotune. It makes it virtually impossible to tell the difference between one singer and another. If I heard a female singer without seeing her I wouldn't be able to tell if it was Alexandra Burke or Cheryl Cole. I'd rather hear someone singing less than perfectly but with some character than to have everyone in the charts sounding exactly the same.

There is still good music around but most of it doesn't make it to the charts.

Dudess

When you compare top 10s of e.g. the early 80s: The Jam, Blondie, Dexys, The Specials, Madness to the top 10s of today... well, there's no comparison. Sure, there was rubbish around then too, but the quality overall was pretty amazing for chart pop. And it's not a nostalgia thing for me as I was only aged two or three when the above acts were at their commercial peak - and I would have been more into The Birdy Song.

bodhrandude

Donald_ducked wrote: »

Music and the scene has changed so much over the years. Very few 'Great Bands' have been created since the 90's imo

The 50's had Elvis and Chuck Berry

The 60's had The Beatles, Hendrix and Dylan

The 70's had Zeppelin,Queen, Rolling Stones, ac/dc and The who

The 80's had U2, Micheal Jackson,Guns N Roses and Bowie

The 90's had Oasis, Radiohead, Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Metallica

The Noughties has or had LCD Soundsystem, Hot Chip, lets call it the new Scandinavian Electronic New Wave with Fever Ray / The Knife, Royksopp, Lykke Li, Robyn etc

The difference between those eras and now is that all the artists listed above were mainstream and accessible to everybody. Now you have to look a lot harded to find decent music

There is still good stuff out there just not as much in the mainstream as it should be.

Mindkiller

I find that most people who say crap like 'music is shoite these days' don't actually have a clue how to look for good modern music. You can't find it by sitting by the radio or watching the music channels.

I definitely agree though that pop music has reached a whole new level of insipidness. It's sad when uninspired duff like The Coronas get a larger following than hugely inventive Irish bands like Adebisi Shank (sp?)

Da Shins Kelly

It's not getting worse, it's just that people see the past with rose-tinted glasses. There's was plenty of sh*te in the 60s/70s/80s/90s, it just got filtered out and people only remember the good stuff or the stuff that made a real impact. There's loads of great music today, and there are plenty of artists that will be remembered for years to come.

orourkeda

There has always been good music produced.

There will always be good music made.

You just have to know where to look.

parrai

I think the wholesale destruction started to happen with Stock, Aiken and Waterman. They, at one stage took over the chart, with really crap poppy tunes in the late 80s, early 90s and since then it has gone downhill. It wasn't uncommon for them to have 10 singles in the top 40 at one stage. This was the stage when looks and packaging took over from real talent. The prequel, really, to what x factor and all that crap that comes with it. As Winston suggested earlier, the good stuff is still there, but with radio stations being playlisted, DJs are not in a position, like say, John Peel, who listened to hundreds of records a week, and played his favourites, to do their job. Many of these bands went on to become serious bands, and inspirations to todays and past successful bands.

I think, if the radio got away from playlists, and the DJ was allowed to do their job, they would be able to bring the good stuff to the front, then we would have better music...

So the argument for 'music is crap today' is made redundant with the internet, in my opinion, cause if you want good music, just go search for it...

Colm!

parrai wrote: »

I think, if the radio got away from playlists, and the DJ was allowed to do their job, they would be able to bring the good stuff to the front, then we would have better music...

That. the college radio stations play some great stuff. This one from America has been a favourite of mine (very few ads on there too). The Irish ones in UCC, UL etc. have some good DJs and some bad ones.

Spunge

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I'm 20, the latest release I have is Whitesnakes last release, Forevermore. I have an absolute sh!t load of music on my PC, all 70s, 80s and early 90s metal and rock. I can't stand chart music, sh!te like Rhianna, Lady Gaga and all that bollocks.

IMO the music from that time period, 70s 80s and 90s, is far superior to todays sh!te, or maybe its just that the type of music I like was much more popular then.

hipster

Dudess

OP, are you referring to just chart/pop/mainstream/commercial/whateverit's called, or music in general?

There's absolutely no question that the former has gotten worse - anyone who says chart music is no worse than it ever was is being disingenuous.

Chips Ahoy

I find the charts hilarious these days every song follows the same formula and usually has a token rapper for a verse like pitbull (oh how i hate him!)

And why does every song have someone else featuring in it, drives me crazy the featuring artist usually has zero input in the song , another money making ploy.

Yakult

RichieC wrote: »

music isn't getting crapper,

I'm pretty sure it is.

One mans crap is another mans gold I suppose.

IcedOut

I like Eminem, all the other music peoples can go f*ck off :P

DEFTLEFTHAND

My whole problem with popular music today is that the art's of song writing and musicianship are being discouraged. Singing a song some record producer wrote over a backing track doesn't constitute as music imo.
My views on the subject however are very influenced from being exposed to my Dad's 60s and 70s collections from an early age, a time when band's in the charts for the most part wrote and recorded their own music.