PwC or Deloitte?

massiveattack

Hey guys,

I just got my offers for both im just wondering which firm would you guys recommend?

Many Thanks

maninblack

massiveattack wrote: »

Hey guys,

I just got my offers for both im just wondering which firm would you guys recommend?

Many Thanks

I'd go PwC if it were me. Not much between them but PwC has better facilities.

Although Deloitte finish early on Fridays during summer

ted2767

maninblack wrote: »

massiveattack wrote: »

Hey guys,

I just got my offers for both im just wondering which firm would you guys recommend?

Many Thanks

I'd go PwC if it were me. Not much between them but PwC has better facilities.

Although Deloitte finish early on Fridays during summer

Deloitte is a better place to work in my opinion

massiveattack

Hmm Im leaning towards deloitte definately seems like a better working environment and plus the 2pm finish on a friday during the summer helps

ted2767

massiveattack wrote: »

Hmm Im leaning towards deloitte definately seems like a better working environment and plus the 2pm finish on a friday during the summer helps

You'll be worked hard wherever you go.
Will you have Cap 2 as well as Cap 1 exemptions?

PWC has better brand name. Deloitte better location and hours (maybe). also consider what section you'll be working in if there is a difference. Financial services audit will not be valued anywhere near as highly compared to industry audit.

flux011

glasso wrote: »

PWC has better brand name. Deloitte better location and hours (maybe). also consider what section you'll be working in if there is a difference. Financial services audit will not be valued anywhere near as highly compared to industry audit.

They both have good brand names. PwC is big in the UK. Deloitte is massive in the United States and Canada

pauldoo

glasso wrote: »

PWC has better brand name. Deloitte better location and hours (maybe). also consider what section you'll be working in if there is a difference. Financial services audit will not be valued anywhere near as highly compared to industry audit.

Why would you say it has a better brand name?

maninblack

Isn't Deloitte the biggest firm worldwide? But PwC is the biggest in this country...

As for 'brand names', they're both in hundreds of locations globally. its much of a muchness tbh

flux011

maninblack wrote: »

Isn't Deloitte the biggest firm worldwide? But PwC is the biggest in this country...

As for 'brand names', they're both in hundreds of locations globally. its much of a muchness tbh

Yes Deloitte has the largest employees worldwide of the Big 4. Only Second to PwC in terms of Revenue for FY2011 though. $29bn for PwC..$28bn for Deloitte. Nothing to choose between the two.

smallerthanyou

glasso wrote: »

Financial services audit will not be valued anywhere near as highly compared to industry audit.

This part makes no sense. Where I work in the financial services sector funnily enough they value financial services experience only. Anyway there's no real difference in the firms. I'd figure out what you want to do after and pick the firm that will guarantee you a place in the section most relevant to your chosen field.

Howjoe1

Deloitte are better to work for by all account.

ManwitaPlan

Makes me laugh when I hear people talking about brand names and which big 4 is bigger. There all fecking massive and size/rep wise they are practically the same firm...employers dont look and say "oh he came from PWC"...they say "oh he came from Big 4"....nobody gives a **** which one.

The main thing here is the area you will be working in. FS is much less interesting than industry and very slightly (not massively) less valued (just due to the fact there are far more people in FS than industry).

If one is industry and one is FS def go industry. If both are same Id go to the one thats closer to your home.

Deloitte get off at 2 but Id be curious to know if this actually happens much????

PWC have gym but its always packed at lunch and after work apparently.

Aside from that I think it comes more down to the group your in...group culture varies more widely than firm culture imo and that all comes down to luck of the draw.

Mr. Incognito

It will depend 100% on the Group you are in and the partner you are under.

I would research that as there are sound groups and asshole groups in both.

Umaro

maninblack wrote: »

I'd go PwC if it were me. Not much between them but PwC has better facilities.

Although Deloitte finish early on Fridays during summer

PwC now finish early on the Friday of Bank Holiday weekends. Not as good as every day during the summer though.

Hackysack

ManwitaPlan wrote: »

The main thing here is the area you will be working in. FS is much less interesting than industry and very slightly (not massively) less valued (just due to the fact there are far more people in FS than industry).

If one is industry and one is FS def go industry. If both are same Id go to the one thats closer to your home.

I'd disagree with this. FS is one of the biggest growing industries in Ireland, where jobs are actually being created (as opposed to others being lost). The FS related departments in the firm that I work at are busy at all times, whereas the industry related counterparts are struggling to get assigned throughout the year.

I've heard that they're actually looking for more and more people to get into FS than the other departments, due to the fact that the industry is getting bigger and there are more jobs to work on. (Of course this is hearsay, so not 100% on it)

I'd agree with it not being the most interesting of areas to work but there's plenty of room for career advancement, I believe moreso than the Technology and business type side of things.

And generally, for the most part, I don't think trainees really get much of a choice over what area they'd like to work in! You won't know what it's like until you try it sure!

Best of luck to all with interviews.

pauldoo

ManwitaPlan wrote: »

Deloitte get off at 2 but Id be curious to know if this actually happens much????
.

It generally does happen, unless your very busy, but in my time there i got out at 2 maybe half the time! it was available, other got out more than that

Theboinkmaster

I wouldn't pick your company based on what time they finish on a Friday ffs - this is the start of your career and you should take it seriously if you want to be succesful.

I'd recommend PwC.

I'm biased as that's where i trained (but was offered all big 4 from milkround) but thought for the experience and company it was, it was brilliant.

Personally I'd stay away from FS and try to get into TICE or CIPS (or whatever they're called now) and much better grounding and broader experience for when you qualify.

Also when i was in PwC we took over a large client from Deloitte and i didn't think much of their standard of work tbh - PwC much higher standard. That could have easily been dependant on the indivdual partner & team on the job but i always got the impression PwC which better.

Also i remember at the time PwC were the only ones using electronic audit files which was surprised at - Deloitte were still using paper files. This indicated what a progressive firm PwC were.

pauldoo

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Also when i was in PwC we took over a large client from Deloitte and i didn't think much of their standard of work tbh - PwC much higher standard.

Also i remember at the time PwC were the only ones using electronic audit files which was surprised at - Deloitte were still using paper files. This indicated what a progressive firm PwC were.

Thats a pretty big claim to make, you cant tell the standard of work of a large firm on one audit file. Im on the other side now and im dealing with PWC, some of the people im dealing with dont know much to be honest, but i wouldnt claim all of PWC to be rubbish because of that, cause its simply not the case. As well as that im sure all big firms have changed dramatically in the decades since the paper files.

I would go with the feel you get from the people you have been dealing with so far in the interview process. I wouldnt take advice off someone on a message board on such a big decision. The person you get the advice from might be very biased one way or the other,the experience of the big four can be very different from person to person

blackwhite

pauldoo wrote: »

Thats a pretty big claim to make, you cant tell the standard of work of a large firm on one audit file. Im on the other side now and im dealing with PWC, some of the people im dealing with dont know much to be honest, but i wouldnt claim all of PWC to be rubbish because of that, cause its simply not the case. As well as that im sure all big firms have changed dramatically in the decades since the paper files.

I would go with the feel you get from the people you have been dealing with so far in the interview process. I wouldnt take advice off someone on a message board on such a big decision. The person you get the advice from might be very biased one way or the other,the experience of the big four can be very different from person to person

I've worked in PwC in the past, and lived with people working in all big 4 (and as a result seen working papers and methodology from each of the firms). The company I currently work for has recently gone through an audit tender process which involved all of the big 4, plus 2 "Top 10" firms.

In general, PwC audit methodology is the most onerous of any of the big 4. There is a higher threshold of testing required for acceptable comfort levels. Whether that results in a "better" audit is debatable. PwC has a huge focus on getting documentation on file, doing large amounts of substantive testing and seems to value controls relience a lot less than the other firms. Whilst probably the most thorough, they are as a result also probably the least efficient.
From what I've seen, the threshold at which a partner seems to sign off seems to be lowest in EY, and highest in PwC. KPMG and Deloitte are somewhere in the middle.
Personally, I think that PwC over-audit to a degree, with a certain element of value-less testing in their methodology. That said, if any of the firms were to be hauled up in court during a fraud case, I'd imagine that PwC would have the strongest defence, due to having more evidence "on file" and less reliance on professional judgement.

Kehoejck

maninblack wrote: »

I'd go PwC if it were me. Not much between them but PwC has better facilities.

Although Deloitte finish early on Fridays during summer

When working in Audit, facilities should not be a factor when deciding, you probably won't be there much when your out on client sites. That's assuming your not doing non-fs audit.

Well, of my experience, PwC is a great company to work for, they treat you very well and there's a good overall working environment.

phunkymonk

For me it would be Deloitte hands down..and i worked in PwC. They treat their employees FAR better.

LightningBolt

It honestly doesn't matter where you choose to accept. At the end of the day you'll be doing the same mind numbing boring work, sit the same pain in the arsé exams and leave with a big four name on your CV.

You can't make an assessment of the people you'll be working with based on a couple of people you've met in interviews/grad lunches. You could get somebody quite personable and just as easy get somebody who's really poor and doesn't sell the firm much to you.

If you live nearer to either of the offices I'd suggest going with that one, makes the Friday morning hungover trek to work easier in your first year although if you're lumped into non fs audit you won't see much of the office.

pugw

In last years milkround PWC sold themselves better and were far more professional in their communication with candidates than Deloitte IMO. That said it might have been a different story for people in the Dublin colleges as I have heard a lot of people say they were very impressed with Deloitte. To be honest they are both very good companies and I would be happy to work for either! Good luck!

Pandoras Twist

I didn't really find much difference in the presentation of PwC and Deloitte last year.

I was faced with the same decision, I chose Deloitte. They seem to have a better reputation for how they treat their employees.

Also, it's along a bus route for me and takes half an hour less to get to in the morning. Sounds petty but as said above, they're both big 4 so there's not much between them

blackwhite

Pandoras Twist wrote: »

.....they're both big 4 so there's not much between them

I'd be careful making that assumption about all big 4.
PwC, Deloitte and KPMG all have a similar rep in terms of how good/bad they are to work for.

EY don't.

(Not sure how far it's acceptable to go on here, so will leave it at that).

Johnny_Fontane

I've recruited for Big 4's for the last ten years and what I would say is this.

big 4's can be good, bad or indifferent. Just having a big 4 background doesnt guarantee anything (although it helps).

The area you go into is key.
People who go into industry audit and get involved with the big audits in their respective firms, tend to get the plc roles after finishing. The PLC roles are probably the most attractive roles for a newly qualified Big 4, as it allows them the opportunity for progression within a large company environment.
People who go into Corporate Finance department are the top of that particular tree (though not always).

In general, if you are in industry audit, you get first time passes and generally progress well, you will have a good shot at getting a group role within a large plc. Current salary - €50k.

If you go into FS Audit, the natural progression is into Financial services. The problem is that it will be very difficult to move into Industry (PLC) roles.
Financial services roles for newly quals tend to not be as commercially exciting as say roles in Industry. i.e. you will be working as a manager within a funds team, a financial analyst role within a large bank. Basically the roles tend to be more back office.

I know this may seem a generalisation, but I have placed literally hundreds of big 4's and this is what I see.

I think the decision should never be about which practice to choose, but what area within that practice to choose.

People talking about reputations outside Ireland (US, Canada etc.) don't count much unless you want to work there. If you want to work in Ireland PWC training is considered better than Deloitte, mainly because more execs came through Price Waterhouse and Coopers (when they were separate) back in the day. FS audit work is boring and anybody who says different is deluded . As another poster said if you are FS focused then industry won't really rate you and most industry jobs post-practice lead to executive level jobs whereas FS jobs don't allow for real commercial experience. Corp finance and Transaction Services work is more interesting again but depends on transactions but with the lack of funding and activity in the Irish economy there is not a lot going on at the moment or for the foreseeable future in those areas. So imo, go for industry audit in whichever practice you can find it....

LightningBolt

glasso wrote: »

FS audit work is boring and anybody who says different is deluded .

Audit work of any kind is boring full stop.

cson

LightningBolt wrote: »

glasso wrote: »

FS audit work is boring and anybody who says different is deluded .

Audit work of any kind is boring full stop.

Depends on the job and the person. To say it's boring off the batt is at best facetious, different strokes for different folks as the saying goes. Certainly one who applies for such a position will have experience of what the job entails or will have researched it sufficiently one would hope.

massiveattack

Head is wrecked with the dilema, think im gonna go with deloitte!

goldeneye90

I'm in the exact same situation as you, whoever you are. From my research, I've come to the conclusion that PwC have slightly a bigger name in Ireland, are very serious and detailed about their work, but they would give very good training. My cousin trained with PwC and recommends them highly. He even got a job in the Financial Reporting department of Vodafone out of it. They're Secondment scheme seems better than Deloitte's aswell.
Deloitte aren't as big in Ireland (and a little smaller Worldwide) and don't audit as many of the biggest companies as PwC. However, they seem more of a fun company to work for, with more emphasis on work/life balance and the satisfaction of it's staff.

So they're the factors I'm taking into account, and you might have guessed I'm gonna choose PwC. It might not be as fun, but it's only 3 years, and I think it'll be best for me in the future. Good luck with whichever you choose, and I might meet you in Spencer Dock if you change your mind.

massiveattack

goldeneye90 wrote: »

I'm in the exact same situation as you, whoever you are. From my research, I've come to the conclusion that PwC have slightly a bigger name in Ireland, are very serious and detailed about their work, but they would give very good training. My cousin trained with PwC and recommends them highly. He even got a job in the Financial Reporting department of Vodafone out of it. They're Secondment scheme seems better than Deloitte's aswell.
Deloitte aren't as big in Ireland (and a little smaller Worldwide) and don't audit as many of the biggest companies as PwC. However, they seem more of a fun company to work for, with more emphasis on work/life balance and the satisfaction of it's staff.

So they're the factors I'm taking into account, and you might have guessed I'm gonna choose PwC. It might not be as fun, but it's only 3 years, and I think it'll be best for me in the future. Good luck with whichever you choose, and I might meet you in Spencer Dock if you change your mind.

Gonna pick deloitte I think, after much consideration and from talking to people I think its the right choice, which is a shame as Im partial to a bit of goldeneye on the N64 myself so its a shame we wont be in spencer dock Best of luck and well done on getting the job!

lavine7

Anyone working in Deloitte or PwC able to offer any insight into their overtime policy?

An Citeog

lavine7 wrote: »

Anyone working in Deloitte or PwC able to offer any insight into their overtime policy?

They're both the same. Any overtime worked can be taken as time off in lieu. There's no paid overtime.

blackwhite

An Citeog wrote: »

They're both the same. Any overtime worked can be taken as time off in lieu. There's no paid overtime.

Wrong

For PwC Dublin you can choose to have overtime paid at time and a quarter if you want. AFAIK some of the regional offices will only let you take time off in lieu.

KPMG and Deloitte are time off in lieu only.

EY don't give anything for OT.

An Citeog

blackwhite wrote: »

An Citeog wrote: »

They're both the same. Any overtime worked can be taken as time off in lieu. There's no paid overtime.

Wrong

For PwC Dublin you can choose to have overtime paid at time and a quarter if you want. AFAIK some of the regional offices will only let you take time off in lieu.

KPMG and Deloitte are time off in lieu only.

EY don't give anything for OT.

I'm not though. There's no option to take paid overtime in PwC. It's 100% TOIL.

shteve

Anyone have experience of working in tax at Deloitte or PWC? What are the pros/cons of both?? :S

Emperor1989

PwC from my view with many friends i know who started last year in the graduate program find the social side very strong and is very important for them if that is any help

LightningBolt

An Citeog wrote: »

I'm not though. There's no option to take paid overtime in PwC. It's 100% TOIL.

You are wrong.

blackwhite

An Citeog wrote: »

I'm not though. There's no option to take paid overtime in PwC. It's 100% TOIL.

What department are you in?

You might want to check the staff handbook