my oil and gas youtube video

newuser89

Did anyone else see the video.
Im wondering is all the info in it true if it is this country is a disgrace.

Norwegian people profit from our country resources while we get nothing, surely this cant be true.how did this come about??

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fianna something or other.

MagicSean

What video? Is this about those dole scroungers in Mayo who are draining a large part of our Garda resources?

newuser89

Check it on youtube.
It compares ireland and norway on how were so similar yet there economy is doing well because of there countrys oil.
But we gave our oil away to other companys but not sure for what.and our tax on oil profits is way lower than the average so we make little money

Duggy747

Ah yes, the video that is wrong and exaggarates it's "facts". It gives the impression to people that we are sitting on a goldmine and should be living like kings like Norway because they tax 90%............which is a downright lie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76VOnzXQMsU

Eric Cartman

The problem with that video is even if it were true , it was made by a bunch of lefty hippy dole scroungers who havent washed in weeks and know nothing about gas, oil or economics. So nobody should believe them , they started out by bitching about the pipeline safety but when they realised nobody was listening they changed their concerns

MagicSean

I thought it was our natural gas we gave away? When did we strike oil?

Padraig Mor

Yawn, always the same with these Shell to Sea spambots. An "innocent poster" "comes across a video" or "hears from a friend" re the supposedly dastardly goings on in Mayo. Just have the balls to come out and say you're S2S!

tony007

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The problem with that video is even if it were true , it was made by a bunch of lefty hippy dole scroungers who havent washed in weeks and know nothing about gas, oil or economics. So nobody should believe them , they started out by bitching about the pipeline safety but when they realised nobody was listening they changed their concerns

Generalisation.
''So nobody should believe them''- what if their assertions were backed up by facts? Would you still stick your fingers in your ears?

Faith+1

I had tea and toast for my breakfast

Monty Burnz

newuser89 wrote: »

Did anyone else see the video.
Im wondering is all the info in it true if it is this country is a disgrace.

Norwegian people profit from our country resources while we get nothing, surely this cant be true.how did this come about??

That video is full of nonsense. Propaganda of the lowest sort - of course those who want to believe it will do so without actually investigating any of the bullsh!t claims.

Eric Cartman

tony007 wrote: »

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The problem with that video is even if it were true , it was made by a bunch of lefty hippy dole scroungers who havent washed in weeks and know nothing about gas, oil or economics. So nobody should believe them , they started out by bitching about the pipeline safety but when they realised nobody was listening they changed their concerns

Generalisation.
''So nobody should believe them''- what if their assertions were backed up by facts? Would you still stick your fingers in your ears?

If it was true, a legitimate agency or media organisation would give us a factual version . When shell2sea or indymedia post something, youd be right 9 times out of 10 to call bullshít on it. The two organisations have been proven time and time again to be spouting propoganda and utter lies to further their points.

MungBean

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If it was true, a legitimate agency or media organisation would give us a factual version . When shell2sea or indymedia post something, youd be right 9 times out of 10 to call bullshít on it. The two organisations have been proven time and time again to be spouting propoganda and utter lies to further their points.

It has been brought up my members of the Dail. Independent TD's, the ULA and SF (I think).

I agree that the people involved in that shell2sea campaign have done more damage to the issue than anything but it doesnt make it a non issue.

We have different policies in relation to resources to other countries. They benefit handsomely and we dont. Its not about exposing anything, theres no conspiracy. We just dont benefit in the manner we should because the government got us a really bad deal. The same government that was destroyed in the polls for effectively destroying the economy of this country through their inability to govern it.

One of the FF politicians that dealt with these companies has since been investigated for political corruption and jailed.

If you dont believe a word shell2sea say because of their actions why do you automatically assume the politicians in charge of dealing with the issue were competent seeing as what they have done ?

MagicSean

MungBean wrote: »

It has been brought up my members of the Dail. Independent TD's, the ULA and SF (I think).

I agree that the people involved in that shell2sea campaign have done more damage to the issue than anything but it doesnt make it a non issue.

We have different policies in relation to resources to other countries. They benefit handsomely and we dont. Its not about exposing anything, theres no conspiracy. We just dont benefit in the manner we should because the government got us a really bad deal. The same government that was destroyed in the polls for effectively destroying the economy of this country through their inability to govern it.

One of the FF politicians that dealt with these companies has since been investigated for political corruption and jailed.

If you dont believe a word shell2sea say because of their actions why do you automatically assume the politicians in charge of dealing with the issue were competent seeing as what they have done ?

The problem is that there is no evidence that we actually have any resources to exploit. I think the government recently gave 9 out of something like 140 licences for exploration. If those nine should uncover massive amounts of oil or gas then the rest of them become much more valuable.

Patricide

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If it was true, a legitimate agency or media organisation would give us a factual version . When shell2sea or indymedia post something, youd be right 9 times out of 10 to call bullshít on it. The two organisations have been proven time and time again to be spouting propoganda and utter lies to further their points.

Ignorance is bliss eh?

newuser89

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yawn, always the same with these Shell to Sea spambots. An "innocent poster" "comes across a video" or "hears from a friend" re the supposedly dastardly goings on in Mayo. Just have the balls to come out and say you're S2S!

Im fairly new to boards and i must say there is alot of members who seem to be looking and hoping to come across trolls and people posting spam.dont reply if you cant answer a question.

I came across it on facebook and saw video on youtube now im looking for anyone with info regarding what is the real figures for our oil and gas and who owns what.all yous are saying is no thats not true, tha tha tha cant be real.

i didnt know we had oil either, im just curious

Fran1985

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The problem with that video is even if it were true , it was made by a bunch of lefty hippy dole scroungers who havent washed in weeks and know nothing about gas, oil or economics.

The main problem though is that there was a huge thread on it a few weeks ago. Both sides seem to be telling porky's in this anyway. If someone else strikes oil on one of those licences then we should move in, otherwise let them keep diggin

Monty Burnz

MagicSean wrote: »

The problem is that there is no evidence that we actually have any resources to exploit. I think the government recently gave 9 out of something like 140 licences for exploration. If those nine should uncover massive amounts of oil or gas then the rest of them become much more valuable.

I think you are wasting your time trying to explain this. If people want to understand the issue, they'd have to spend an hour reading up on the economics of the oil industry, and everyone knows that reading is boring.

Much better to believe whatever propaganda is most attractive to you, and repeat it to anyone you think might listen.

MungBean

MagicSean wrote: »

The problem is that there is no evidence that we actually have any resources to exploit. I think the government recently gave 9 out of something like 140 licences for exploration. If those nine should uncover massive amounts of oil or gas then the rest of them become much more valuable.

Theres no evidence we have any resources ? Of course there is, theres gas and oil. The fact that the government gave these "licences for exploration" out is the bad deal. Those are not only licence to explore but also a declaration that the state has no claim in anything thats found.

The companies have explored, have found and are profiting from those resources. The exploit is the manner in which those resources can be taken from Irish grounds and sold for profit without the Irish state having any say or any stake in the sale. They have effectively given away any resources that can be found on Irish grounds to whoever wants to find it.

MungBean

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think you are wasting your time trying to explain this. If people want to understand the issue, they'd have to spend an hour reading up on the economics of the oil industry, and everyone knows that reading is boring.

Much better to believe whatever propaganda is most attractive to you, and repeat it to anyone you think might listen.

If it works for you Monty you stick with it. I on the other hand would like to discuss things rather than just assume I'm right and discount anyone who disagrees with me.

4zn76tysfajdxp

tony007 wrote: »

Generalisation.
''So nobody should believe them''- what if their assertions were backed up by facts? Would you still stick your fingers in your ears?

If.

MagicSean

MungBean wrote: »

Theres no evidence we have any resources ? Of course there is, theres gas and oil. The fact that the government gave these "licences for exploration" out is the bad deal. Those are not only licence to explore but also a declaration that the state has no claim in anything thats found.

The companies have explored, have found and are profiting from those resources. The exploit is the manner in which those resources can be taken from Irish grounds and sold for profit without the Irish state having any say or any stake in the sale. They have effectively given away any resources that can be found on Irish grounds to whoever wants to find it.

It's not a matter of just sticking a drill in the ground. There's massive costs involved in finding a spot that can be mined. It has to be an attractive offer to entice the oil companies to look for it. And where is all this gas and oil? Where are all these refineries and drilling operations you allude to?

MungBean

newuser89 wrote: »

Im fairly new to boards and i must say there is alot of members who seem to be looking and hoping to come across trolls and people posting spam.dont reply if you cant answer a question.

I came across it on facebook and saw video on youtube now im looking for anyone with info regarding what is the real figures for our oil and gas and who owns what.all yous are saying is no thats not true, tha tha tha cant be real.

i didnt know we had oil either, im just curious

You'll learn soon enough that to mutter even the most innocent of questions about these issues your gonna be called a "lefty hippy dole scrounger who hasent washed in weeks and know nothing about gas, oil or economic".

Not that these experts of everything would be prone to generalising or anything.

ArmaniJeanss

Fran1985 wrote: »

If someone else strikes oil on one of those licences then we should move in, otherwise let them keep diggin

Thats the way we should operate. Seriously?

Padraig Mor

newuser89 wrote: »

Im fairly new to boards and i must say there is alot of members who seem to be looking and hoping to come across trolls and people posting spam.dont reply if you cant answer a question.
im just curious

Bull****.


Every week or so - in here or Politics - it's the same old story. A S2S "undercover agent" pretends to be a naive poster who has only just heard about "the great gas giveaway" via a friend or Youtube link and is wondering if this can be true. The trouble is that the format is always exactly the same with these pseudo enquiring posts.

I came across it on facebook and saw video on youtube.......I'm just curious

Flat out lies. You're a S2S spambot and have likely posted similar crap under a few other usernames as well over the last while.

MagicSean

MungBean wrote: »

Not that these experts of everything would be prone to generalising or anything.

Pot/Kettle?

the_syco

MungBean wrote: »

They benefit handsomely and we dont.

They will of they start extracting anything

newuser89 wrote: »

Im fairly new to boards and i must say there is alot of members who seem to be looking and hoping to come across trolls and people posting spam.dont reply if you cant answer a question.

We often see people posting here wit little or no posts about something their friend just sent them, and thus we become sceptical of them.

MungBean

MagicSean wrote: »

It's not a matter of just sticking a drill in the ground. There's massive costs involved in finding a spot that can be mined. It has to be an attractive offer to entice the oil companies to look for it. And where is all this gas and oil? Where are all these refineries and drilling operations you allude to?

I know theres massive costs, but theres also massive profits. Offering incentive for companies to look for oil is all well and good but if the state doesnt profit to any meaningful degree then whats the point of it ?

You dont have to entice companies to look for it, they are in the business of locating and drilling for oil. If theres a chance there will be oil in an area they will explore that area regardless of incentives. It was upto the government to capitalise on the possibility of oil being there NOT to ensure the greatest profits and smallest losses for the oil company.

Duggy747

What about the licensing terms about tax on gas fields at 25% which can increase to 45% based on the profits? That doesn't sound like the country is getting 0% to me.

We just can't be compared to a country like Norway that's rich in reserves and production.

CIA WORLD FACTBOOK wrote:

Ireland - 431 bbl/day (2010 est.)

Norway - 2.134 million bbl/day (2010 est.)

If we were to have the resources "returned to the people" then the amount of money needed to be spent by the government to search and extract anything wouldn't justify the relatively low profits.

newuser89

Padraig Mor wrote: »

newuser89 wrote: »

Im fairly new to boards and i must say there is alot of members who seem to be looking and hoping to come across trolls and people posting spam.dont reply if you cant answer a question.
im just curious

Bull****.


Every week or so - in here or Politics - it's the same old story. A S2S "undercover agent" pretends to be a naive poster who has only just heard about "the great gas giveaway" via a friend or Youtube link and is wondering if this can be true. The trouble is that the format is always exactly the same with these pseudo enquiring posts.

I came across it on facebook and saw video on youtube.......I'm just curious

Flat out lies. You're a S2S spambot and have likely posted similar crap under a few other usernames as well over the last while.

Haha maybe i should get a job with them if i come across so well as one.
Do they pay well lol

Ok again
i know nothing about this i saw a facebook page my freind liked and i watched the video then i became CURIOUS
S2S made the video but i never heard of them other than that.
I dont really need to defend myself anyway most other people are giving gd info

tell me about the darkside mr.padraig and there black magic that got your pantys tied up

MungBean

MagicSean wrote: »

Pot/Kettle?

I wasnt generalising I was stating a fact. You would be under serious pressure finding a thread about these issues without someone discounting the issue on the basis that its propaganda from dirty lefty dole scroungers.

I havent discounted your opinion I'm discussing it with you. Others have no interest in discussing it and just posted to express how little regard they have for the opinions that they disagree with. I'm neither the pot nor the kettle.

--Kaiser--

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The problem with that video is even if it were true , it was made by a bunch of lefty hippy dole scroungers who havent washed in weeks and know nothing about gas, oil or economics. So nobody should believe them , they started out by bitching about the pipeline safety but when they realised nobody was listening they changed their concerns

/thread

MagicSean

MungBean wrote: »

I know theres massive costs, but theres also massive profits.

Potential profits. You left that part out. If the profits were guarnteed I'd be out exploring myself.

MungBean wrote: »

Offering incentive for companies to look for oil is all well and good but if the state doesnt profit to any meaningful degree then whats the point of it ?

The state does get a percentage. But even if they didn't get anything the economy would still benefit indirectly from any major operation. Employment in both the construction and running of an operation for one and the knock on benefits that has (reduced social welfare/increased income tax). And also the probability of a big reduction in fuel costs for the country and the increase in value of the many remaining licences. That's all beside the point though because the state does get a percentage.

MungBean wrote: »

You dont have to entice companies to look for it, they are in the business of locating and drilling for oil. If theres a chance there will be oil in an area they will explore that area regardless of incentives. It was upto the government to capitalise on the possibility of oil being there NOT to ensure the greatest profits and smallest losses for the oil company.

They are in the business of money. They are not gonna spend massive amounts to explore an area where there may not be anything at all.

MagicSean

newuser89 wrote: »

Haha maybe i should get a job with them if i come across so well as one.
Do they pay well lol

Ok again
i know nothing about this i saw a facebook page my freind liked and i watched the video then i became CURIOUS
S2S made the video but i never heard of them other than that.
I dont really need to defend myself anyway most other people are giving gd info

tell me about the darkside mr.padraig and there black magic that got your pantys tied up

A job with shell2sea? Are you for real?

newuser89

Jk magicsean

Monty Burnz

MungBean wrote: »

If it works for you Monty you stick with it. I on the other hand would like to discuss things rather than just assume I'm right and discount anyone who disagrees with me.

Rather than 'discussing', I suggest you do some research if you want to find out the truth. Don't bother with advocates of any particular argument - I recommend you simply learn about the economics - there's no spin when people have their own money at stake. Then all will become clear.

ArmaniJeanss

Heres last months 'just found this my oil and gas' thread OP if you want to save us the trouble of making the same points again.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056403356

I don't think I have the energy to point out again that if we were really giving oil away then why isn't the coast from Dingle to Donegal full of oil wells. Why are they still drilling off Norway instead of moving all the equipment to Ireland?
Why were only 13 of 996 available licenses picked up in the last round. Etc etc.

MungBean

MagicSean wrote: »

Potential profits. You left that part out. If the profits were guarnteed I'd be out exploring myself.

I was just speaking of profit in general in the oil business. Its a very lucrative business after costs.

The state does get a percentage. But even if they didn't get anything the economy would still benefit indirectly from any major operation. Employment in both the construction and running of an operation for one and the knock on benefits that has (reduced social welfare/increased income tax). And also the probability of a big reduction in fuel costs for the country and the increase in value of the many remaining licences. That's all beside the point though because the state does get a percentage.

I know it gets a percentage and will benefit indirectly to some degree but as far as I'm aware (I'm open to correction as I havent looked at it in detail) there is no obligation to provide gas or oil to Ireland at any kind of a discount. Once found its the companies oil, the only thing the Irish state can claim is a percentage of profits made from that oil. 25% I'm aware of, I have seen it mentioned that it could be upto 40% but I dont know how that works or who decides when and why it increases to that. Also that exploration costs can be offset against that tax. I think its highly unlikely we will have the resources for this to benefit the state to any meaningful degree at what we would currently get out of it.

They are in the business of money. They are not gonna spend massive amounts to explore an area where there may not be anything at all.

They do though, they are in the business of making money from oil. To do that they need to find oil. If they didnt want to risk the money to look they wouldnt exist in the first place. Costs from failed explorations is part of their business and is offset from the huge profits they make. Just so happens here that the cost will be offset by the tax demanded by the state leaving the opportunity for huge profits for the company and not the state (unless we hit the jackpot with the worlds biggest find).

MungBean

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Rather than 'discussing', I suggest you do some research if you want to find out the truth. Don't bother with advocates of any particular argument - I recommend you simply learn about the economics - there's no spin when people have their own money at stake. Then all will become clear.

Oh excuse me for discussion something on an internet forum without being an expert on the subject.

I recommend you dont bother with threads that dont interest you. Dont bother with posting your dismissive comments of opinions based on what you assume about the people making them. This is AH, if your pointless generalising posts are permitted, surely to hell I can discuss something on a thread created to discuss that very thing ?

Boards is for discussions so I dont need your permission or a degree in economics to post here ok ? Sorry of I offend you with the fact that I have a different opinion or that I post stuff you dont want to read.

Monty Burnz

MungBean wrote: »

Oh excuse me for discussion something on an internet forum without being an expert on the subject.

Not at all. Just don't expect to learn much if you go down this route. If you really want to learn, you'll do what I did.

MungBean wrote: »

I recommend you dont bother with threads that dont interest you. Dont bother with posting your dismissive comments of opinions based on what you assume about the people making them. This is AH, if your pointless generalising posts are permitted, surely to hell I can discuss something on a thread created to discuss that very thing ?

Keep your hair on buddy.

MungBean wrote: »

Boards is for discussions so I dont need your permission or a degree in economics to post here ok ? Sorry of I offend you with the fact that I have a different opinion or that I post stuff you dont want to read.

While you are untwisting your knickers, I recommend you start reading up on oil and gas investments. As I said, approaching it from this angle you avoid all the spin from various vested interests and you can learn exactly why it is so hard for the Irish state to make money from our (unproven) hydrocarbon resources. I learned a lot from this forum, but there is loads of info out there.

Of course, if you aren't interested in learning anything and just want a typical left/right AH squabble (and to be honest, it looks like you do) then carry on as you are. Who needs facts?

shedweller

It does appear that there are very little hydrocarbons around Ireland:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_res-energy-oil-reserves

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ei-ireland/ene-energy

http://www.lundin-petroleum.com/Press/pr_ireland_30-08-06_e.html

30 August 2006

LUNDIN PETROLEUM COMPLETES WELL OFFSHORE IRELAND

Lundin Petroleum AB (Lundin Petroleum) has completed the drilling of the Inishbeg exploration well 13/12-1, offshore Ireland. The well has been plugged and abandoned without testing due to lack of reservoir development.

It's not looking good but it would be nice to have the facts shoved in our faces as much as the abuse and being calles "s2s" types etc.

Monty Burnz

Incidentally, the idea that a big oil find would be great for the nation is a rather naive assumption. There's every chance that such an event would destroy our economy - but that's another discussion. The logic behind this is out there on the internet too if anyone is interested in learning more about it, there's no need for me to do a poor rehash of the argument here.

Gee Bag

I might be a bit quick off the mark, but I've already bought a ten-gallon hat, married a woman called Sue-Ellen and changed the name of my council flat to Southfork.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/offshore-oil-exploration-to-ramp-up-171083.html

Eric Cartman

MungBean wrote: »

It has been brought up my members of the Dail. Independent TD's, the ULA and SF (I think).


If you dont believe a word shell2sea say because of their actions why do you automatically assume the politicians in charge of dealing with the issue were competent seeing as what they have done ?

i said legitimate, the ULA and SF have their own massive record of propoganda and lies

I dont automatically assume the politicians were right , but I know more than the ULA , SF, S2S and all the hippies about oil and gas exploration , and I know that Ireland doesnt have the equipment or finances to get this gas out of the ground

also the people who arent making a big deal out of this (all the mainstream media organisations, the EU , The politicians who actually have a chance of running a government , energy aquisition experts havent said anything or covered it . The only people complaining about this are former terrorists, hippys, hardline left wingers and the 'lets blame everything on fianna fail' crowd.

The day a credible source who have actual facts to back this up and no history of being violent or permanently on the dole tells me about this then ill listen

MungBean

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Not at all. Just don't expect to learn much if you go down this route. If you really want to learn, you'll do what I did.


Keep your hair on buddy.

While you are untwisting your knickers, I recommend you start reading up on oil and gas investments. As I said, approaching it from this angle you avoid all the spin from various vested interests and you can learn exactly why it is so hard for the Irish state to make money from our (unproven) hydrocarbon resources. I learned a lot from this forum, but there is loads of info out there.

Of course, if you aren't interested in learning anything and just want a typical left/right AH squabble (and to be honest, it looks like you do) then carry on as you are. Who needs facts?

Who needs facts indeed when you can just denounce something as bullshít, agree that everyone involved are dirty left scroungers and then profess that theres no point even discussing it.

Dont let me interrupt your hypocritical little sermon there though. Carry on sir.

MungBean

Eric Cartman wrote: »

i said legitimate, the ULA and SF have their own massive record of propoganda and lies

I dont automatically assume the politicians were right , but I know more than the ULA , SF, S2S and all the hippies about oil and gas exploration , and I know that Ireland doesnt have the equipment or finances to get this gas out of the ground

also the people who arent making a big deal out of this (all the mainstream media organisations, the EU , The politicians who actually have a chance of running a government , energy aquisition experts havent said anything or covered it . The only people complaining about this are former terrorists, hippys, hardline left wingers and the 'lets blame everything on fianna fail' crowd.

The day a credible source who have actual facts to back this up and no history of being violent or permanently on the dole tells me about this then ill listen

Think I'll take your route. Whats the point in listening to right wing arrogant bullshítters pretending to be experts on absolutely everything.

Eric Cartman

MungBean wrote: »

Think I'll take your route. Whats the point in listening to right wing arrogant bullshítters pretending to be experts on absolutely everything.

yes....im bullshítting.....thats why most of the country agrees with me and every expert in the field seems to be on my side aswell , there are very few times in life where the minority are right , this is not one of those times

54kroc

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yes....im bullshítting.....thats why most of the country agrees with me and every expert in the field seems to be on my side aswell , there are very few times in life where the minority are right , this is not one of those times

Well said.

Duggy747

MungBean wrote: »

Once found its the companies oil, the only thing the Irish state can claim is a percentage of profits made from that oil. 25% I'm aware of, I have seen it mentioned that it could be upto 40% but I dont know how that works or who decides when and why it increases to that.

25% is the flat income tax, based on the profits a company takes in it can increase to 40%. More profits = more tax.

As to how much money can be benefited from this is pure speculation, nobody can give an accurate reading as of yet. Profits from Corrib will depend on how much gas they are able to extract, the price of it on the market over the lifespan of it's operation, and the cost of building & using the infrastructure.

Monty Burnz

MungBean wrote: »

Who needs facts indeed when you can just denounce something as bullshít, agree that everyone involved are dirty left scroungers and then profess that theres no point even discussing it.

Dont let me interrupt your hypocritical little sermon there though. Carry on sir.

I know the facts, because I have researched this. When I heard about the deals that Ray Burke signed and how we were being robbed blind, I was as disgusted as anybody. The difference is that instead of going to a forum to start complaining, I actually looked into the claims to see if they were true. They aren't.

I can say from a position of authority that that video is total donkey sh!te. What I'm telling you is that - if you want to learn why - you should do a bit of research. I gave you one source to start with.

If, on the other hand, you just want to have a row, then carry on as you are here in AH. I can start insulting you if it will help.

MungBean

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I know the facts, because I have researched this. When I heard about the deals that Ray Burke signed and how we were being robbed blind, I was as disgusted as anybody. The difference is that instead of going to a forum to start complaining, I actually looked into the claims to see if they were true. They aren't.

I can say from a position of authority that that video is total donkey sh!te. What I'm telling you is that - if you want to learn why - you should do a bit of research. I gave you one source to start with.

If, on the other hand, you just want to have a row, then carry on as you are here in AH. I can start insulting you if it will help.

We are on the internet, I dont know what you have researched or what claims you have found to be untrue. If its not evident from your post I cant know what position your in when discussing it. All I can do is comment on the posts in front of me and thats what I did.

You make a statement about the video being nonsense, I never challenged that. You agreed with Eric Cartman's generalising statement about dirty lefty dole scroungers, then when I struck up a discussion with MagicSean you advise him not to bother trying it explain it to me and then proceeded to tell me I shouldnt be discussing it without researching it.

If you didnt want to discuss it then you didnt have to discuss it. If you wanted to show some places to find answers in regards to what was asked by the OP then you should have done so. But you didnt, you had a rant, dismissed my opinion and now claim its all valid because you have knowledge of the subject.

Claiming you have researched it and have knowledge of the matter after all that only proves you never wanted to discuss it in the first place and only ever wanted to have a dig at the people who made the video and flame me while I discussed it with MagicSean.