How to protect you Gun club lands?

berettaman

Hi Guys, I was wondering if I could get some advice. Last year we had a lad shooting on our club shooting grounds on the 1st November. He also shot it the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th. His m.o. is to shoot it Tue to Friday knowing we will be shooting Sat/Sun. Basically by mid Nov last year it was hammered. During the summer he was shooting pigeons in 2/3 day stints and now 10 days on from the season he parks up three days a week and shoots the land with his gundogs- shooting what I do not know. The farmer is non-confrontational so is not keen to let us put up signs. This guy is not in any club, as far as I know is uninsured and shot a neighbouring clubs land during the hard weather ban. We release the birds and do the vermin control on this land . What can legally be done about it? Thanks B.

landkeeper

if he has permission, not a thing!!!! if he hasn't you can do something if the farmer will stand beside you

homerhop

The farmer along with the club secretary have to make a formal complaint to the gardai. Other than that the club will have to get a letter from the farmer saying the individual does not have permission ant the club secretary can take it from there. The club if going to prosecute will have to have signs up and notification in the local paper that that farm land is under your club.

Lads will tell you that you dont have to put a notice in the paper but for the club to bring an action its in the wildlife act

Section 44 of the wildlife act.......
an offence shall only be prosecuted by the secretary of a recognised body if,


(i) prior to the relevant time a notice stating that sporting rights specified in the notice over land so specified have been reserved for the body is published in a newspaper circulating in the area in which the relevant land is situate, and
(ii) the land so specified comprises or includes the relevant land.

J.R.

berettaman wrote: »

Hi Guys, I was wondering if I could get some advice. Last year we had a lad shooting on our club shooting grounds on the 1st November. He also shot it the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th. His m.o. is to shoot it Tue to Friday knowing we will be shooting Sat/Sun. Basically by mid Nov last year it was hammered. During the summer he was shooting pigeons in 2/3 day stints and now 10 days on from the season he parks up three days a week and shoots the land with his gundogs- shooting what I do not know. The farmer is non-confrontational so is not keen to let us put up signs. This guy is not in any club, as far as I know is uninsured and shot a neighbouring clubs land during the hard weather ban. We release the birds and do the vermin control on this land . What can legally be done about it? Thanks B.

We have the same problem.........2 groups of local lads and one local individual come in and shoot the place out......shoot every day during season.......don't contribute anything.

Farmers don't want to fall out with any locals.....'sort it out among ye'erselves'

When met on the land their reply is

'it's a free country'

and

'the farmer has no objections...there's plenty for everybody'

and the best of all....

'we left off fifty birds ourselves around the area...ye'er probably shooting our birds, and we've no objections... live & let live!!!!!'

As stated above there's nothing we can do if the farmer doesn't become involved.

A Gun Club secretary can instigate proceeedings if lands preserved are printed in local newspaper but farmer wouldn't be too happy with that and would probably stop ALL shooting on the land if he heard a mention of court cases over his land.

Traumadoc

Did you ask him if he wanted to join the club?

Cass

landkeeper wrote: »

if he has permission, not a thing!!!! if he hasn't you can do something if the farmer will stand beside you

Correct.

berettaman wrote: »

This guy is not in any club, as far as I know is uninsured..........

Neither are prerequisites for shooting. He does not need to be a member if, as said above, he has his own permission to be on the land, and there is no requirment for anyone shooting to have insurance. It is simply preferred.

............... and shot a neighbouring clubs land during the hard weather ban. .

Thats a different story, and quite frankly not something that can be sorted now. The hard weather ban was enacted by the Minister, and it was a government decison not local/county thing so has standing, but for something to be done it would have had to be reported at the time. Anything said now is simply accussational, and really stepping into legal territory that we shouldn't venture into.

What can legally be done about it?

For the OP's sake and everyone responding. While we can all give our opinion on what we would do, or think we would do, its very important to note that we cannot give legal advice anywhere on Boards.ie for legal reasons. The last thing we want is for someone to act on "legal" advice here, land themselves in a whole of trouble, and then say they were told to do so by someone here.

Spunk84

Did you or any other member approach the said person? You might find it works,
Better to approach them in the middle of nowhere with the farmer or group of GC members just to give him a shock( not physical ) just a shock so that he knows you see what he's doing. Also ask him to join the club!!!!! You might find he wants to join somewhere and that would relieve the problem. As for the farmer not wanting to do anything then your ****:D your pretty much a guest on his land as well and it may cause an upset resulting in the GC getting the boot. You have to have the former behind you 110%

berettaman

Thanks for all the advice lads. I will approach the land owner with the club chairman this week to see if we can work something out. When I meant legal solution I didn't mean that I wanted to get a solicitor. I just meant that I didn't want anything illegal to be done to sort it out. This guy can't be asked to join as he is not in the catchment/parish area. He knows exactly what he is doing in terms of shooting where another club releases birds. As far as I know he has no permission and the farmer is reluctant to get involved. I was surprised that you could be out with dog and gun a week before the season and have no repurcussions...

Traumadoc

Why can he not join if he is from outside the parish?

ClimberC

If someone wants to shoot on our lands they ask our permission, if not we have them on cctv and they are confronted. We have been asked several times if the gun club could have the shooting rights (or something along them lines) without an invitation to join the club ourselves. TBH i would rather have the odd lone hunter on the land than have a club using the land. My opinion is that if they want to shoot in an organised manner and prohibit other hunters from shooting on the same land, they should aquire their own land and stay off mine.

Thats just my opinion, dont mean to start a row about it!
As far as i am aware, in regards to the op's situation, its up to the farmer who gets to shoot on his land.

Cass

berettaman wrote: »

When I meant legal solution I didn't mean that I wanted to get a solicitor. I just meant that I didn't want anything illegal to be done to sort it out.

I understand that and there is no foul on your behalf. Its a site wide rule, and before someone steps over the line and offers legal advice i thought it best to remind everyone that we cannot do that. Does not mean we cannot offer opinion, and possible solutions, just nothing legal.

I was surprised that you could be out with dog and gun a week before the season and have no repurcussions...

Only if he is caught with a bird before the season can anything be done. Other than that he is free to shoot with a dog, as you cannot do anything on someone's intentions.

cavan shooter

Traumadoc wrote: »

Why can he not join if he is from outside the parish?

Because...... Just because.......its just not done:D





Gun Clubs tend to be parish based with local lads and farmers setting them up running them etc. Even our application form has on it live in the parish or has links eg works in the parish. I remember years ago "letting" 2 lads in to a club that werent living anywhere near the club area, you would see them on the out shooting but never at a meeting or fund raiser. It also stops club collecting as a friend of mine calls it.

Spunk84

It depends who you are if your buddies with the commitee members you usually can slip into a club without being in the parish. We have lads in the parish looking into the GC and can't because there not l"Of good character :mad: pretty much a buddy buddy system in GC that I see.

Traumadoc

Yes it seems the guy who is shooting on the lands cannot become a member of the exclusive club.

I had a similar experience, I asked a farmer could I shoot rabbits on his land, He asked me to shoot pigeons and deer too.
So I obliged. Local GC were none too happy. I asked could I join. They said they would get back to me.
They never did ( perhaps because I am a blow in?).

berettaman

There is nothing exclusive about the club. We have a rule that states that to join you must be living in the Parish. This is common with most gunclubs I believe. You make it sound like we are a bunch of gouys going around in tweeds only admitting the "right sort". (If you only knew..) There is a gun club where this guy lives and to the best off my knowledge he is not a member of that. We are a small club that saves the pennies to put birds out and feed them and control vermin. Every Nov 1 those birds are harvested by shooters from outside the area. Several of our gunclub members are landowners also and just because land is within the parish we do not assume we have a divine right to shoot it. A gun club is only as strong as the efforts of it's membership AND the goodwill of the landowners that let us shoot their land.

Remmie 223

Traumadoc wrote: »

Yes it seems the guy who is shooting on the lands cannot become a member of the exclusive club.

I had a similar experience, I asked a farmer could I shoot rabbits on his land, He asked me to shoot pigeons and deer too.
So I obliged. Local GC were none too happy. I asked could I join. They said they would get back to me.
They never did ( perhaps because I am a blow in?).

I have a similar problem. I live in an area where there is no gun club. I have my own permissions & insurance, but i do not have access to a lake, my nearest gun clubs both have, but dont execpt members from outside the area, i managed to get to talk to a club sec of one of them but was warned not to mention "lamping foxes" I was told there was a club in this area about 20 years ago but they were pushed out by the two bigger clubs.

Traumadoc

berettaman wrote: »

There is nothing exclusive about the club.

You exclude people from outside .. ipsa dixit you are an exclusive club.

I note you call it "our clubs shooting ground" it also presumable belongs to a farmer?
Perhaps the guy got permission from the farmer?

berettaman

Thanks for that Traumadoc. We are exclusive in that you must be in or of the parish to join the club but we are not exclusive in that if you move into the parish and you wish to shoot and are willing to help with birds/feeding/vermin etc then that is not a problem. I used the term club shooting grounds to describe the land over which gun club members may shoot, i.e land that owners have given permission for club members to shoot on. Res ipsa loquitur (as you might say ), the land still belongs to the farmer. Just a note, the draft constitution of a gunclub available from the NARGC website also has the "parish rule".
I will be seeing the farmer this week but when I asked last year he hadn't heard of this guy. Club member or not shooting any piece of ground 5 days in a row during the first week in a season is not right.

Traumadoc

I still shoot on the farmers land where the local GC releases the birds. only pigeons and rabbits. I do not shoot game birds.
Perhaps your friend does the same?
If he does shoot game birds- does he know they are released by the GC. After all there are no signs to say the lands are protected.





Have you talked to him?
Perhaps if you told him that these birds are released by yourselves he would desist.
I would have a good presence on the lands for the first week, talk to the guy I am sure he would understand.
I think that the farmer should be talked into putting up signs.


Having your birds shot by someone else is a PITA, I know lots of our birds are shot by members of a different GC on lands a joining our shoot.

pheasntstalker

:mad:while i have to agree ,that gc,s have a vested interest in protecting,the lands they have permissions on, ie stocking, rearing,releashing birds,etc, and that it accepts new members from the parish or surrounds,i personly have written ,rang ,emailed,and spoken to commitee members,to try and join a gc locally only,including a gc where i went to school and grew up with most of the members,and told no chance,and fcuk off in some instances:mad::mad: surly in times when our sport is threatened,gc,s would be only too happy to except new members even on a trial basiss, they would soon sort out the genuine lads, who will help out,come to meetings, and contribute, from the chancers,,i am only too happy to join a gunclub outside my own county,because of the offer was given to me, and i for damn sure will repay that invitation back in spades to that club, in anyway i possibly can. there is too much clannishness still today in gunclubs imho:mad:, there are geniune lads out there who want to join gunclubs who cant because there not from the area etc, its time this parish only rule was changed for the better

cavan shooter

The constitution for a Gun club is available to download FOC from the NARGC website. The election of members is quite simple you apply to join with reasons, someone proposes you someone seconds you. It is brought up at a meeting where your application is discussed. This meeting normally goes the way of:

I know this lad he has recently moved into xxxx he is working with xxxx and married to xxxx ah you do know her she is xxxx daughter. I know him to he is living in xxxxx. ...... Then in the end its a case of right who objects???. For the past 6 years we dont have a secret ballot, for the past 6 years instead of saying do we let him in, we ask who objects. Any member has a right to request a secret ballot. They aren't secret societies ye know.

You need to be known by members to get into a club. I am tired of hearing about closed shop clubs that do nothing. Let the people in (within reason of course);):D.

Our Gun Club is open to membership all the time*











*terms and conditions apply

berettaman

Thanks for the varied views guys but just to get back on topic: how do you stop a guy (gunclub member or not) shooting the [EMAIL="s#@te"]s#@te[/EMAIL] out of a place before and especially during the season? How do you stop someone who contributes nothing in terms of time, effort or €€€ to an area and when a place is cleaned out he just moves on..
The answer seems to lie with the land owner and that's my next port of call.

Cass

All the answers you need are above.

• If he has individual permission you can do nothing.
• If he has no permission its up to the landowner to enforce prosecution if you go that route.
• If he is shooting before the season, then calling the Gardai would work, but he must be caught in the act as hearsay would not count. Your word against his.
• If he is just shooting, but nothing that has a season, there is nothing to be done at all.

Any other scenario is based on a mulitples of the above.

arrowloopboy

berettaman wrote: »

Thanks for the varied views guys but just to get back on topic: how do you stop a guy (gunclub member or not) shooting the s#@te out of a place before and especially during the season? How do you stop someone who contributes nothing in terms of time, effort or €€€ to an area and when a place is cleaned out he just moves on..
The answer seems to lie with the land owner and that's my next port of call.

You could round up a couple of your bigger burlerier club members,and confront the guy at the edge of darkness in a wooded area and ask him if hee'd ever seen Delieverence.......boooy :eek::eek::eek::D

stevoman

its kind of a two sided coin though isnt it. im a member of the local gun club. no probs il always join a club because i want to contribute to my sport. the neighbouring club had some good ground where id like to do a few dats shooting later in the year when the weather gets hard. i contacted the club last year and the year before asking to join their club explaining i wanted to hunt that land a couple of times a year. my family are originally from the area. twice i was refused! so i went to all the farmers who own the land this year and secured all the permissions. now im not dumb enough to wade in there in the first couple of weeks and cause any confrontation, but after a while il tip in and bang away. if the club lads stop me il explain i have full permission. im willing to pay my way no probs if they want me as a member but if not well its their loss.

popgun

Hi lads & ladies,
Did I not read somewhere, I think maybe even on here before, that if a gun club is is officially set up that gives them the rights over game in the area of their club. As in that they can control who shoots the game in their area even though they don't own the land.
The way I read it at the time was that the farmer could give a non club member premission to shoot vermin on his land but not game.
I colud be very very wrong.

homerhop

nop if you have the land owners permission you can shoot game.

popgun

No bother, I just thought I read it somewhere but as I said I could be wrong.
I'm a land owner and a GC member and I just think it's a pity that lad's won't/can't join local clubs and help out with the few small job's and fund rasing that have to be done through out the year.