Protection of rare birds in Ireland...(title amended + mod note post 6 + mod post 47)

Birdnuts

LostCovey wrote: »

Roll your eyes all you want. I am talking about hills where there is no BNM, and forestry wis limited and well mature.

I know exactly what is going on in these areas, and yes, there are umpteen people who try to get a brace or two every year.

Some day they will shoot the last of them, and then I will stop bothering you all.

Ok LC this is getting us nowhere - you critized me for the use of "anecdotes" and then you come out with a few of your own;). Fair enough, but I'm simply quoting from the lastest survey on numbers of Grouse that suggests that the numbers of this bird have stablized where good habitat remains ie. mainly blanket bogs in the East and Midlands, while numbers continue to decline on blanket bogs in the SW(due to expansion of forestry) and raised bogs in the midlands(due to turf extraction). Indeed there is more hope then I thought for this bird given that numbers overall in the state have appeared to stabiliz since the 1991 Atlas effort based on the link I posted - which I believe is a cause for optimism not flaggelation;):

Birdnuts

LostCovey wrote: »

I am not going to fall out with anyone about this, but if people with your level of interest and expertise are ambivalent there is no hope.

Maybe this is exactly the sort of advice the govt is getting ("on the one hand, on the other hand, they're doing OK in the national parks, I saw several family groups last summer, those boyos draining the turloughs are the villains, blahdy blah). If so then I can see why a cute politician would see there was plenty of cover for them to do what they do best, make no changes, and just sign whatever orders were signed last year.

Least said soonest mended eh?

LostCovey

I would agree that cr%p polticians are the downfall of this country in more ways then one but I'm certainly not ambivalent when it comes to the survival of any species.I hate to blow my own trumpet but I've spent too much time and money on conservation projects both in this country and out foreign to be ambivalent about anything in this area. I just see this particular issue in a different way to you based on my own experience and the facts I have to hand as of this moment. That could change in the future if I learn differently but for now that is my call on this subject - and I mean no offence to anyone by saying that.:)

Traonach

Birdnuts wrote: »

Ok LC this is getting us nowhere - you critized me for the use of "anecdotes" and then you come out with a few of your own;). Fair enough, but I'm simply quoting from the lastest survey on numbers of Grouse that suggests that the numbers of this bird have stablized where good habitat remains ie. mainly blanket bogs in the East and Midlands, while numbers continue to decline on blanket bogs in the SW(due to expansion of forestry) and raised bogs in the midlands(due to turf extraction). Indeed there is more hope then I thought for this bird given that numbers overall in the state have appeared to stabiliz since the 1991 Atlas effort based on the link I posted - which I believe is a cause for optimism not flaggelation;):

There only two areas of healthy Red grouse population: Slieve Blooms and Wicklow mountains NP. Everywhere else they are in trouble with populations suffering from reduced genetic diversity. I don't think that is a cause of optimism.

Mickeroo

Traonach wrote: »

There only two areas of healthy Red grouse population: Slieve Blooms and Wicklow mountains NP. Everywhere else they are in trouble with populations suffering from reduced genetic diversity. I don't think that is a cause of optimism.

Ballycroy's population is healthy enough too afaik, I think that was one of the main reasons for the park designation along with the blanket bog. I can't find any figures at the mo unfortunately so I could be wrong, but I've often seen grouse while out walking in the achill area too.

Birdnuts

Mickeroo wrote: »

Ballycroy's population is healthy enough too afaik, I think that was one of the main reasons for the park designation along with the blanket bog. I can't find any figures at the mo unfortunately so I could be wrong, but I've often seen grouse while out walking in the achill area too.

They have a dedicated team from the NPWS doing habitat restoration at Ballycroy - certainly appears to be paying off:)

LostCovey

Birdnuts wrote: »

They have a dedicated team from the NPWS doing habitat restoration at Ballycroy - certainly appears to be paying off:)

Yes, the Grouse in the Nephin Begs are doing great in a NATURE RESERVE!!!!!!!!!!

This is dead tedious, so I am signing off this debate for now, as it is getting circular.

WE have reached some points where we agree

- habitat degradation has had a major impact on Grouse populations
- Grouse are doing well in Nature Reserves, where habitat can be managed and shooting is banned

and finally,

- if we can't protect/restore habitat, for the populations outside the Nature Reserves, we may as well shoot the lot. And improve the effectiveness of this Grouse clearance programme in respect of the struggling unprotected populations outside the reserves by having the Minister for the Environment remind shooters of their obligations to consider shooting Grouse every autumn with a newspaper advert.

Grand that's settled.

Slán for now.

LostCovey

Mickeroo

LostCovey wrote: »

Yes, the Grouse in the Nephin Begs are doing great in a NATURE RESERVE!!!!!!!!!!

This is dead tedious, so I am signing off this debate for now, as it is getting circular.

WE have reached some points where we agree

- habitat degradation has had a major impact on Grouse populations
- Grouse are doing well in Nature Reserves, where habitat can be managed and shooting is banned

I don't see whats wrong with that, the fact is if its not a nature reserve or in this case a national park its private property. Truth is outside of our national parks and mountain ranges(which are mostly all SPA's and SAC's anyway) there is no natural habitat in this country. Technically speaking even the habitats in our national parks are all man made too, but that's beside the point. The fact of the matter is this is a very small country without a shred of true wilderness left in it, so if our wildlife can't thrive in our parks and mountain ranges they don't really have much place else to go unfortunately

LostCovey

Mickeroo wrote: »

I don't see whats wrong with that, the fact is if its not a nature reserve or in this case a national park its private property. Truth is outside of our national parks and mountain ranges(which are mostly all SPA's and SAC's anyway) there is no natural habitat in this country. Technically speaking even the habitats in our national parks are all man made too, but that's beside the point. The fact of the matter is this is a very small country without a shred of true wilderness left in it, so if our wildlife can't thrive in our parks and mountain ranges they don't really have much place else to go unfortunately

Apologies in advance Mickeroo, if I am doing you an injustice.

Are you saying you see no place/no future for wildlife outside reserves and designated areas in Ireland????????


LC

Mickeroo

LostCovey wrote: »

Apologies in advance Mickeroo, if I am doing you an injustice.

Are you saying you see no place/no future for wildlife outside reserves and designated areas in Ireland????????


LC

I would certainly hope that that won't be the case but it's a possibility I guess.

LostCovey

Mickeroo wrote: »

I would certainly hope that that won't be the case but it's a possibility I guess.

Beyond depressing as a vista. I honestly don't think its this bad. In fairness what I have been ranting about is sloppy laws, not reckless law-breaking - I think protection is broadly respected by shooters. In fact every single shooter I know is highly responsible and law abiding, but that Buzzard shows there's some I don't know!

LC

Mickeroo

LostCovey wrote: »

Beyond depressing as a vista. I honestly don't think its this bad. In fairness what I have been ranting about is sloppy laws, not reckless law-breaking - I think protection is broadly respected by shooters. In fact every single shooter I know is highly responsible and law abiding, but that Buzzard shows there's some I don't know!

LC

There's just so few places in Ireland where there are no people, it's just such a highly humanised landscape that I find i hard to see how wildlife can truly thrive here sometimes. It's not all bad though, things like the re-introduction of the birds of prey in the last ten years really give me hope that it's not all doom and gloom

Mothman

I have deleted (hopefully temporarily) the recent discussion about the shot buzzard pending behind the scenes discussion

If you'd like to comment on this, please PM rather than raise it in thread

Browning

Here is something positive for you..

PRESS RELEASE on Behalf of the Fingal Grey Partridge Project

Ireland’s native Grey Partridges return to North County Dublin after 50 years
Innovative Ways of Promoting Wildlife on the Farm

Today, the Minister for the Department of Arts, Heritage and Gaeltacht, Jimmy Deenihan T.D., released the first batch of native Grey Partridges from a release pen on a farm near Oldtown in north County Dublin.
After releasing the Grey Partridges in Fingal, Minister Deenihan said: “I am delighted to take part in this event, returning a native Irish bird to Fingal, where it has not been seen since the 1950’s. This project clearly shows how farming practices in the 21st century can collaborate with nature conservation agencies to the betterment of our wildlife. “
The Grey Partridge Release programme is part of the first year of an ambitious five-year project to re-establish a viable population of Irish Grey Partridge in north County Dublin. The Irish Grey Partridge Conservation Trust and Fingal County Council are managing the Grey Partridge reintroduction project in Fingal. Up to recent years Ireland’s naturally occurring population of Grey Partridge was in serious danger of extinction, with only 22 birds nationally, in a single location at Boora Bog in Co. Offaly.



The National Parks and Wildlife Service is responsible for the conservation of this native bird. Over the last number of years a conservation project funded by the NPWS has turned the fortunes of the species around from a critically low 22 to 932 birds. The NPWS funded Grey Partridge project in Boora is regarded as the most successful conservation project in Europe by scientists from the UK’s Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust, the leading scientific authority on the species.
Mr John Walsh of the Irish Grey Partridge Conservation Trust said, “The Boora project has worked and the population has increased to a point where the National Conservation Strategy for the species has moved on to its next phase. Not only will grey partridge benefit from this project, but also a range of other farmland birds that have unfortunately declined over the last number of decades. We greatly appreciate the co-operation of local farmers who have made this project possible”

Seventy Grey Partridge from the Boora project have been donated by the National Parks & Wildlife Service to kick start the project. Over the duration of the project a number of conservation strategies for the grey partridge will roll out on farmland in Final. These strategies are designed to increase the breeding productivity of the released birds. The newly established population will be augmented with birds from the captive breeding programme for two years. The longer-term objective of the project is to reach sufficient numbers of Partridges that are recruited from the wild population which will facilitate an expansion of the grey partridge within North Dublin.



The project will focus on the creation of suitable habitats within three intensive cereal farms in the Oldtown area. A series of 3-4 metre wide habitat strips over the 3 farms will stretch out over 10km. These strips will be located along the margins of the headlands. The establishment of a demonstration farm where profitable farming and biodiversity can co-exist without the loss of farming output is key goal of the project. This innovative approach is effectively a tweak of modern farming practices, which will ensure that many farmers see the benefits of this type of project and will continue to act as they always have, as custodians of biodiversity in the countryside.
Mr Hans Visser, Biodiversity Officer with Fingal County Council stated that “Rural Fingal has lots of suitable farmland for grey partridge to thrive in the wild, and we hope this pilot project will demonstrate to other farmers in Fingal what can be done for wildlife conservation in an easy and straightforward way. A narrow habitat strip in the least productive part of the field will have a minimal impact on farm income, while being of great benefit to farmland wildlife. ”
The project is funded by Fingal LEADER Partnership through the Rural Development Programme 2007 -2013 and Fingal County Council and is supported by the National Parks & Wildlife Service, the National Association of Regional Game Councils and three local farmers.

whyulittle

Small piece about this on the end of the Six One news this evening as well.

I was chatting with one of the guys involved at Boora the other week, and he was saying that they have started to push out into the open countryside from the managed Boora site itself.