Protection for feral cats?

Mickeroo

doctor evil wrote: »

Okay, just read it in todays paper. Not online yet so can't link it.

Feral cats and wild cats are two different things. There are no wild cats in Ireland, only domestics and ferals.

There is the Scottish Wild Cat (obviously in Scotland) of which less than 400 remain. These are genetically different from domestic cats but are under threat from them due to inbreeding and disease.

It is galling when people make this mistake. I'm tempted to send a letter into the editor.

http://www.scottishwildcats.co.uk/index.html

Is the paper referring to the ferals as Wild Cats or what?

doctor evil

Okay on page 7 there is the photo with a captain below.

'.....protection for Irelands wild cats, writes Seán Mac Connell....'

I don't know if the reporter used the 'wild' word or the protestors.

Birdnuts

doctor evil wrote: »

Okay, just read it in todays paper. Not online yet so can't link it.

Feral cats and wild cats are two different things. There are no wild cats in Ireland, only domestics and ferals.

There is the Scottish Wild Cat (obviously in Scotland) of which less than 400 remain. These are genetically different from domestic cats but are under threat from them due to inbreeding and disease.

It is galling when people make this mistake. I'm tempted to send a letter into the editor.

http://www.scottishwildcats.co.uk/index.html

The mainstream print media are utterly hopeless when it comes to such issues, or anything vaguely scientific for that matter eg. you will often see pictures of various species being miss-labelled as something else. I remember seeing what was clearly a picture of a long-eared owl being labelled as a "Barn" owl last year in one of the main broadsheets.:rolleyes:

TippFan77

Feral cats are as entitled to protection in my view as domestic cats. They mightn't be as cuddly but that surely shouldn't be a factor in determining whether a given creature is protected by law.

Humane population methods only should be employed.
I like to see birds in my garden and I accept that cats will kill birds if they can, but targeting cats (feral or otherwise) is not the answer. We can't manipulate nature to that degree.

I hope these animals will get the protection they deserve under the new animal welfare act.

Mickeroo

TippFan77 wrote: »

Feral cats are as entitled to protection in my view as domestic cats. They mightn't be as cuddly but that surely shouldn't be a factor in determining whether a given creature is protected by law.

Humane population methods only should be employed.

I like to see birds in my garden and I accept that cats will kill birds if they can, but targeting cats (feral or otherwise) is not the answer. We can't manipulate nature to that degree.

I hope these animals will get the protection they deserve under the new animal welfare act.

Feral cats are domestic cats, albeit domestic cats that have no owners. Their cuddliness or lack there of is not a factor in protection, nor is it for any animal as far as I know.

Cats are not native to this island and any stray cats that are found should be treated the same way stray dogs are treated, if a good home cannot be found for them they should be put down. This is not manipulating nature it is protecting it.

No-one is condoning inhumane treatment of the cats either.

TippFan77

Mickeroo wrote: »

Feral cats are domestic cats, albeit domestic cats that have no owners. Their cuddliness or lack there of is not a factor in protection, nor is it for any animal as far as I know.

Cats are not native to this island and any stray cats that are found should be treated the same way stray dogs are treated, if a good home cannot be found for them they should be put down. This is not manipulating nature it is protecting it.

No-one is condoning inhumane treatment of the cats either.

Cats not being "native to this island" is a pretty pathetic excuse for adopting a hostile attitude towards them. Just about every country on this planet has cats, regardless of how they got there.

Cats, feral or otherwise, do not need to be killed by humans unless they are suffering great pain and cannotr be cured of whatever illness ails them.

I disagree with your view that the cuddliness or otherwise of animal has no bearing on the level of legal protection they receive. An example: Robins are nice, they look charming on Christmas cards etc, but very few people like crows...this attitude finds its way into our laws via protection of robins.
I believe we should feed feral cats and treat them kindly. We have enough cruelty dressed up as fun and "sport" without this attack on the feral cat population.

Birdnuts

TippFan77 wrote: »

Cats not being "native to this island" is a pretty pathetic excuse for adopting a hostile attitude towards them. Just about every country on this planet has cats, regardless of how they got there.

Cats, feral or otherwise, do not need to be killed by humans unless they are suffering great pain and cannotr be cured of whatever illness ails them.

I disagree with your view that the cuddliness or otherwise of animal has no bearing on the level of legal protection they receive. An example: Robins are nice, they look charming on Christmas cards etc, but very few people like crows....

I believe we should feed feral cats and treat them kindly. We have enough cruelty dressed up as fun and "sport" without this attack on the feral cat population.

Thats because crows can cause significant damage to crops and their population in this country is enormous - laws on what species are protected or not are based on science and economic considerations. Not on cuddleyness. Its the same reason the likes of foxes and mink are classed as vermin

PS: Feral cats harbour many diseases too which can be passed on to peoples pets. The also kill other pets including smaller cats.

Mickeroo

TippFan77 wrote: »

Cats not being "native to this island" is a pretty pathetic excuse for adopting a hostile attitude towards them. Just about every country on this planet has cats, regardless of how they got there.

If an animal is non-native and causes harm to those which are native then it is about the only justifiable reason to be hostile towards them.

Traonach

Birdnuts wrote: »

laws on what species are protected or not are based on science and economic considerations. Not on cuddleyness.

Question? Why are mute swans not classified as a game bird? They are not native. They compete with native wildfowl. The reason must be beacuse they are high on the cuddleyness scale

Half-cocked

Traonach wrote: »

Question? Why are mute swans not classified as a game bird? They are not native. They compete with native wildfowl. The reason must be beacuse they are high on the cuddleyness scale

Or was it because they belonged to the King of England or something? A lot of species which are classed as 'game' were traditionaly hunted for sport. No tradition of hunting swans = no game classification. There are actually a lot of species which can still be hunted which shouldn't (curlew, golden plover, some of our scarcer ducks etc) but tradition has dictated things.

Kess73

Let's keep it on topic folks.

If people want to discuss why crows get shot at or why mute swans don't get shot at, then start a seperate thread for it and keep it civil please.

kildare.17hmr

TippFan77 wrote: »

Feral cats are as entitled to protection in my view as domestic cats. They mightn't be as cuddly but that surely shouldn't be a factor in determining whether a given creature is protected by law.

Humane population methods only should be employed.

I like to see birds in my garden and I accept that cats will kill birds if they can, but targeting cats (feral or otherwise) is not the answer. We can't manipulate nature to that degree.

I hope these animals will get the protection they deserve under the new animal welfare act.

TippFan77 wrote: »

Cats not being "native to this island" is a pretty pathetic excuse for adopting a hostile attitude towards them. Just about every country on this planet has cats, regardless of how they got there.

Cats, feral or otherwise, do not need to be killed by humans unless they are suffering great pain and cannotr be cured of whatever illness ails them.

I disagree with your view that the cuddliness or otherwise of animal has no bearing on the level of legal protection they receive. An example: Robins are nice, they look charming on Christmas cards etc, but very few people like crows....

I believe we should feed feral cats and treat them kindly. We have enough cruelty dressed up as fun and "sport" without this attack on the feral cat population.

You actually have no idea do you? have you ever seen the damage feral cats can do? A farmer friend of mine lost so many sheep a few years ago to a large number of feral cats it nearly crippled him! all his sheep we having still births. that problem was put under control in a couple of weeks and had no problems since the cats were shot, go figure:rolleyes:

As birdnuts said robins do no harm at all but crows do serious damage. I was in the farm shop today getting coal and brickets and met a farmer i know there who was out sowing wheat, he asked was i busy today because there is a flock of a few hundred crows following the tractor eating all the seed he had bought and was sowing.

artieanna

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

You actually have no idea do you? have you ever seen the damage feral cats can do? A farmer friend of mine lost so many sheep a few years ago to a large number of feral cats it nearly crippled him! all his sheep we having still births. that problem was put under control in a couple of weeks and had no problems since the cats were shot, go figure:rolleyes:

As birdnuts said robins do no harm at all but crows do serious damage. I was in the farm shop today getting coal and brickets and met a farmer i know there who was out sowing wheat, he asked was i busy today because there is a flock of a few hundred crows following the tractor eating all the seed he had bought and was sowing. Pests can be shot for very valid reasons, yes it is fun to the people that do it they wouldnt do it otherwise but most shooters respect the law and only shoot what they are allowed

There must be a serious problem in your area if they were attacking sheep, I have never ever heard of such a thing....

Sur why don't we cull everything that causes us problems, and keep spraying chemicals on wild plants(weeds). Then we can have beautiful gardens no insects no "problem" birds or animals to deal with, it dosen't work though does it...
We have to manage to live with these problems and get on with it!
Now Back On Topic
We people caused the spread of feral cats by not neutering, not bothering to deal with kitten litters and so we have feral cats!
At least by neutering them and releasing them we are not allowing breeding and eventually bringing an end to the population...If there is a large problem population of feral cats in certain areas then perhaps a cull may be necessary(humanely and not by shooting), but each area would have to be looked at individually. Can anyone here actually tell me how major a problem is the spread of feral cats? figures?

I know that yes cats do kill birds and mice and pigmy voles but damn it I still love my cats and my dog and I take responsibility by looking after them and neutering, they are out during the day and in at night. I love nature too but I will not choose between one and the other...

Why can't people take responsibility and neuter their pets PLEEEEEZ

Mothman

artieanna wrote: »

There must be a serious problem in your area if they were attacking sheep, I have never ever heard of such a thing....

Look up Toxoplasmosis.
It is an abortion disease in sheep. Can be very serious as Kildare has mentioned and cats, in particular their faeces in the feed is a vital link.

Half-cocked

Mothman wrote: »

Look up Toxoplasmosis.
It is an abortion disease in sheep. Can be very serious as Kildare has mentioned and cats, in particular their faeces in the feed is a vital link.

The impact of an alien species is not restricted to its hunting habits. The above is a good example of the indirect consequences. Another commonly heard example is the spread of squirrel parapoxvirus by greys which kills reds.

Cats may have shared our homes with us for centuries, but they are still an alien species which can have all sorts of negative effects on our native ecology when they are let loose. I like cats, we've always had one or two in the home, but there is a need to control the numbers of feral cats out there.

artieanna

Mothman wrote: »

Look up Toxoplasmosis.
It is an abortion disease in sheep. Can be very serious as Kildare has mentioned and cats, in particular their faeces in the feed is a vital link.

Apologies guys I misunderstood the quote by kildare.17hmr as no disease was mentioned I thought gangs of cats were worrying sheep thus resulting in still births:D so I thought the statement was a bit maaad:eek:...

Again, I think it depends on local numbers of feral cats, if there are large numbers also sick cats then a local cull maybe necessary. But remember it is not necessairly feral cats that cause the toxoplasmosis any cat feral or domestic that soils in a hay shed/barn can cause the disease, so do we cull domestic cats too? Domestic cats in the countryside are allowed to roam quite freely so should we cull them because of toxoplasmosis risks ?

they are feral because we made them so, because we couldn't be bothered to take responsibility for our own animals... I wish feral cats didn't exist, but I wouldn't agree to culling them all.

Look at any animal rescue web site and see all the kittens (cats and dogs) dumped and neglected by ignorant people who expect someone else to take their responsibility. While this behaviour exists there will be feral cats roaming this country.

Has anyone here got figures on feral cats????? We are discussing something we don't even have numbers to show if there is problem or not!

kildare.17hmr

In answer to your question about figures i have no clue, i do know they are a problem in a few areas but tats just from word of mouth.

I kind of agee with what your saying about it being our fault but catching and neutering just wont get enough of them to stop it imo

Kess73

artieanna wrote: »

Apologies guys I misunderstood the quote by kildare.17hmr as no disease was mentioned I thought gangs of cats were worrying sheep thus resulting in still births:D so I thought the statement was a bit maaad:eek:...

Again, I think it depends on local numbers of feral cats, if there are large numbers also sick cats then a local cull maybe necessary. But remember it is not necessairly feral cats that cause the toxoplasmosis any cat feral or domestic that soils in a hay shed/barn can cause the disease, so do we cull domestic cats too? Domestic cats in the countryside are allowed to roam quite freely so should we cull them because of toxoplasmosis risks ?

they are feral because we made them so, because we couldn't be bothered to take responsibility for our own animals... I wish feral cats didn't exist, but I wouldn't agree to culling them all.

Look at any animal rescue web site and see all the kittens (cats and dogs) dumped and neglected by ignorant people who expect someone else to take their responsibility. While this behaviour exists there will be feral cats roaming this country.

Has anyone here got figures on feral cats????? We are discussing something we don't even have numbers to show if there is problem or not!

Nobody has exact figures, but seven years ago a rough estimate was reached of circa one million feral cats in the Dublin and greater Dublin area and roughly a million for the rest of the country combined.

Some of the people and organisations who commented and added their knowledge.advice included the Dublin Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the Marie Healy animal sanctuary, Mayo Cat Rescue, and a number of rescue centres in other counties. The general concensus back then was that the numbers had reached almost epedemic levels in some counties and that a combination of culling and neutering was badly needed. Now when organisations like those I named start mentioning culling as an option I tend to take notice as such a comment would not come easy or be used lightly.


Here are a few links on the topic that come from a variety of sources and that look at the issue from more than pov.


http://www.spayweekireland.ie/articles/tnr.html

http://www.cdpa.ie/control_of_feral_cats.html


http://kildarevet.ie/2010/10/15/trap-neuter-return-irelands-feral-cats/

http://www.wildlifecontrol.ie/cat-control-ireland/


http://www.dspca.ie/FeralCats


http://animalcaresociety.wordpress.com/tag/feral-cats-ireland/


http://animalfoundation.ie/2011/10/15/1379/


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/animal-experts-warn-ireland-plague-of-feral-cats-is-spreading-555875.html

LostCovey

The feral cats issue is very real.

However some organisations need a reality check, e.g.
http://feralcatsireland.org/Feral_Cats/National_Feral_Cat_Awareness_Week.html

Like they say, their aim is trap/neuter/return - ie RETURN the feral non-native killing machine to the natural environment.

I would suggest a modified protocol:


LC

littlebug

Mothman wrote: »

Mod Note
Discussion of how to dispatch a cat is for another forum.

Referring back to the Mod note on page 1 of this thread I have deleted a few posts that are focused on methods of dispatch. I have also edited out some quotes focused on same.
Discusssion on the issues/ problems regarding feral cats is okay but specifics on methods of dispatch isn't for here.