Protection for feral cats?

Half-cocked

Just saw a picture in todays Irish Times of a crowd protesting outside the Dail. They want feral cats to be protected under law. Whats everyones thoughts on this? IMHO cats cause massive damage to our native wildlife and need to be controlled.

Mickeroo

Half-cocked wrote: »

Just saw a picture in todays Irish Times of a crowd protesting outside the Dail. They want feral cats to be protected under law. Whats everyones thoughts on this? IMHO cats cause massive damage to our native wildlife and need to be controlled.

THey're not native wild animals so there's absolutely no justification for protection IMO.

Whats their basis for wanting to protect them? Are they supposedly filling the role of the predators we are lacking?

Half-cocked

Mickeroo wrote: »

Whats their basis for wanting to protect them?

They look cute apparently.

Mickeroo

Half-cocked wrote: »

They look cute apparently.

If you listen really closely can hear the global community of true animal lovers simultaneously facepalming.

magicbastarder

steady on there; seems they have a fairly reasonable stance - that of capture and neuter, and return. they're not claiming they should be treated the same as an indigenous species.

http://feralcatsireland.org/Feral_Cats/National_Feral_Cat_Awareness_Week.html

CardinalJ

magicbastarder wrote: »

steady on there; seems they have a fairly reasonable stance - that of capture and neuter, and return. they're not claiming they should be treated the same as an indigenous species.

http://feralcatsireland.org/Feral_Cats/National_Feral_Cat_Awareness_Week.html

Because the country has loads of cash to fund a project like that....

kylith

I greatly disagree with straying cats. The kind of cat control I'd like to see is pet cats staying on their owner's property and no feral cats at all. In my opinion they're a nuisance.

While catch, neuter, release sounds good it doesn't solve the problem of a colony of cats, disturbing pets and fouling in gardens.

Half-cocked

kylith wrote: »

While catch, neuter, release sounds good it doesn't solve the problem of a colony of cats, disturbing pets and fouling in gardens.

And decimating the wild bird population.

Mickeroo

magicbastarder wrote: »

steady on there; seems they have a fairly reasonable stance - that of capture and neuter, and return. they're not claiming they should be treated the same as an indigenous species.

http://feralcatsireland.org/Feral_Cats/National_Feral_Cat_Awareness_Week.html

I don't see the point of neutering them, they should be put down. If we could catch all the wild mink as easily I doubt we'd be neutering them and putting them back, feral cats should be treated no differently. People are letting the fact that they're generally regarded as pets rather than wild predatory animals blind them I think.

magicbastarder

Half-cocked wrote: »

And decimating the wild bird population.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/cats/birddeclines.aspx

not according to the RSPB.

Mothman

Mod Note
I've deleted a couple of posts. Discussion of how to dispatch a cat is for another forum.

Half-cocked

magicbastarder wrote: »

http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/cats/birddeclines.aspx

not according to the RSPB.

The RSPB gets its data by asking cat owners to keep diaries of what their pet cats bring home. Pet cats would be fed by their owners and probably only hunt bout of instinct. IMHO feral cats hunt to survive so probably kill a lot more prey than their well fed domestic cousins. I don't know if the RSPB take this into account or if they even have an idea how many feral cats are out there. With many songbird species under threat from habitat loss, feral cats are just another pressure they don't need. I also wonder if they compete for prey with our native predators and have a negative impact in that area?

I notice the RSPB state that most birds die from other causes anyway but ringing data shows that adult breeding birds are frequently being killed by cats. If only 10% of songbirds survive to breeding age, their loss to cat predation must have a big impact.

Birdnuts

Half-cocked wrote: »

Just saw a picture in todays Irish Times of a crowd protesting outside the Dail. They want feral cats to be protected under law. Whats everyones thoughts on this? IMHO cats cause massive damage to our native wildlife and need to be controlled.

Utterly ridiculous!! - these are probably the same type of people who released 100's of mink into the Irish countryside in recent years:mad::rolleyes:

magicbastarder

i know a couple of people who will take any cats which come into their garden hand have them neutered if they aren't already done.

kildare.17hmr

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know a couple of people who will take any cats which come into their garden hand have them neutered if they aren't already done.

Thats all well and good but it only takes care of a few. Imo there should be a cull of feral cats and cat owners should be made look after the ones they have and keep them in

cfitz

Mickeroo wrote: »

If you listen really closely can hear the global community of true animal lovers simultaneously facepalming.

Being aware of the workings of the natural world makes you no truer an animal lover than some cat owner who hates to watch other cats harmed.

Like it or not, people have a long-standing connection with dogs and cats. It's not as simple as: cull them, they're harming our natural world. All these feral cats are nth-generation pets, so as humans, many people feel some sense of responsibility for them. And although we may not feel the same, it's not such a bad trait in my opinion. Trying to raise awareness of the actual issues caused would be more useful than mocking people's ignorance.

Mickeroo

cfitz wrote: »

Being aware of the workings of the natural world makes you no truer an animal lover than some cat owner who hates to watch other cats harmed.

Like it or not, people have a long-standing connection with dogs and cats. It's not as simple as: cull them, they're harming our natural world. All these feral cats are nth-generation pets, so as humans, many people feel some sense of responsibility for them. And although we may not feel the same, it's not such a bad trait in my opinion. Trying to raise awareness of the actual issues caused would be more useful than mocking people's ignorance.

No mockery intended and sorry if I caused offence.

However, in my eyes it really is as simple as "they cause harm they should be culled", as I said above I think people are blinded by the image of cats as harmless pets. You're right, people should be made aware of the issues of course.

Now don't get me wrong, I am a cat lover myself (though i'm more of a dog person) and I don't like seeing any animal coming to harm but when it comes to a human caused problem like an invasive species I really don't think there is room for sentimentality. If grey squirrel, mink or any other animal which causes damage to our indigenous populations could easily be wiped out on this island I think they should be and I don't think cats or any other escaped pets should be treated any differently. Now if a good home could be found for them that would obviously be better but neutering them and releasing again just makes no sense to me.

kildare.17hmr

A call for a cull would get numbers in check very quick i reckon and would make normal cat owners take responsibility if ferals were being controled in their area. it doesnt make sense to me that people see them different to mink or grays

doctor evil

OP did it say what group these people are?

There is a lot worse that can happen than to be humanely dispatched. Feral cats as it is lead hard short lives.

It is not ok for dogs to roam so why is it ok for cats? (coming from a cat owner)

Traonach

doctor evil wrote: »

It is not ok for dogs to roam so why is it ok for cats? (coming from a cat owner)

It's ok to let a cat out as long as you take a couple of precautions. Make sure the cat is neutered so it's less likely to stray. Only let out during the day and not at night or dawn/dusk. Have a quick-release collar on the cat with plenty of bells (my cat has six bells). All these will keep wildlife casualities to a minimum (with my furry friend).

doctor evil

Traonach wrote: »

It's ok to let a cat out as long as you take a couple of precautions. Make sure the cat is neutered so it's less likely to stray. Only let out during the day and not at night or dawn/dusk. Have a quick-release collar on the cat with plenty of bells (my cat has six bells). All these will keep wildlife casualities to a minimum (with my furry friend).

That doesn't take account of other dangers. The only way to do it safely is to cat proof the garden/run/teach them to accept a leash.

Traonach

doctor evil wrote: »

That doesn't take account of other dangers. The only way to do it safely is to cat proof the garden/run/teach them to accept a leash.

My cat ain't going to be happy stuck in a run or the house. He loves his strolls in the fields. Granted he would be safer indoors from cars, dogs and trigger-happy shooters. It's about quality of life for the cat and trying to protect wildlife at the same time.

Mickeroo

Traonach wrote: »

My cat ain't going to be happy stuck in a run or the house. He loves his strolls in the fields. Granted he would be safer indoors from cars, dogs and trigger-happy shooters. It's about quality of life for the cat and trying to protect wildlife at the same time.

I doubt your cat would get the drop on any of our feathered friends with bells around their kneck, seems like a good precaution to me.

doctor evil

Some cats can learn to keep the bell still.

recedite

There's a lack of compassion in many of these posts. Its quite sad.

Traonach

Mickeroo wrote: »

I doubt your cat would get the drop on any of our feathered friends with bells around their kneck, seems like a good precaution to me.

He has only caught one bird this year. He always bring birds back to the kitchen table to eat them, so I know what he's killing. Before when he was less jingly he would catch a good few birds.
I have a quick-release collar on him so he won't get hung off a branch or the collar won't get stuck in his mouth (like a conventional collar). He loses a quick-release collar around once every two months, so you do have to keep replacing them (it's well worth it though when he's not killing birds) One bell on a collar doesn't produce much noise but sling 4-6 bells on him and he's fairly noisy.

Birdnuts

I think people need to get a bit of perspective here - cats, pigs, camels, goats etc. are currently being culled around the world by professional conservationists to stem the tied of extinction of native wildlife in places like Australia and numerious islands from Hawaii to the Galapagos. Invasive species like these are currently in the top 3 or 4 factors driving extinction across the planet:(

Traonach

Birdnuts wrote: »

I think people need to get a bit of perspective here - cats, pigs, camels, goats etc. are currently being culled around the world by professional conservationists to stem the tied of extinction of native wildlife in places like Australia and numerious islands from Hawaii to the Galapagos. Invasive species like these are currently in the top 3 or 4 factors driving extinction across the planet:(

Which poster said they the numbers shouldn't be controlled?

Mickeroo

Traonach wrote: »

Which poster said they the numbers shouldn't be controlled?

I think Birdnuts was just trying to clarify the reasoning behind what is possibly being perceived as a lack of compassion.

Mothman

Oh dear, IMO the quality in this thread is lost among the "noise"...
I'm going back to the OP. I didn't see the Times but I'll quote some previous posts

magicbastarder wrote: »

steady on there; seems they have a fairly reasonable stance - that of capture and neuter, and return. they're not claiming they should be treated the same as an indigenous species.

http://feralcatsireland.org/Feral_Cats/National_Feral_Cat_Awareness_Week.html

I would like to see reference that a legal protection is being sought as is mentioned in the OP and what the basis of this thread is based on.

Moving onto this

magicbastarder wrote: »

http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/cats/birddeclines.aspx

not according to the RSPB.

Half-cocked wrote: »

The RSPB gets its data by asking cat owners to keep diaries of what their pet cats bring home. Pet cats would be fed by their owners and probably only hunt bout of instinct. IMHO feral cats hunt to survive so probably kill a lot more prey than their well fed domestic cousins. I don't know if the RSPB take this into account or if they even have an idea how many feral cats are out there. With many songbird species under threat from habitat loss, feral cats are just another pressure they don't need. I also wonder if they compete for prey with our native predators and have a negative impact in that area?

I notice the RSPB state that most birds die from other causes anyway but ringing data shows that adult breeding birds are frequently being killed by cats. If only 10% of songbirds survive to breeding age, their loss to cat predation must have a big impact.

What I've highlighted in bold is I feel a worthy note. wildlife such as birds have very high mortality, but this mortality enters the foodchain and so if beneficial to the eco system, but if some of this natural mortality is diverted, then the eco system suffers.

Birdnuts wrote: »

Utterly ridiculous!! - these are probably the same type of people who released 100's of mink into the Irish countryside in recent years:mad::rolleyes:

Please do a double take on off the cuff remarks. Its not fair to lump these folk with others. While what the group today are advocating may not be near enough for many of us here, it is actually a benefit over what we have now. A feral/stray neutered cat is better that a feral/stray cat that is not neutered.

doctor evil

Okay, just read it in todays paper. Not online yet so can't link it.

Feral cats and wild cats are two different things. There are no wild cats in Ireland, only domestics and ferals.

There is the Scottish Wild Cat (obviously in Scotland) of which less than 400 remain. These are genetically different from domestic cats but are under threat from them due to inbreeding and disease.

It is galling when people make this mistake. I'm tempted to send a letter into the editor.

http://www.scottishwildcats.co.uk/index.html