Caught Speeding in the North - Urgent

CiniO

Fishtits wrote: »

The arrest issue is due to the fact that you are non resident.

Yeah. That's what I meant.

You are going there as a tourist, and you might get arrested for something really negligible.
That must the the only country in Europe like that.

CiniO

johnos1984 wrote: »

I've never heard of a licence been taken.

I have heard of them frog marching people to ATM's to withdraw the fine and pay it and people who cannot pay spend a night in the cells.

That's the way it works in most EU countries.
When you are stopped for committing an offence, you have to pay on the spot fine. They usually would let you go to ATM for the cash.
But arresting someone without even giving him a chance to pay the fine like it happens in NI, seems to be outraging.

Delancey

The legal position regarding motoring offences committed by those non-resident in Northern Ireland is as follows - where a person has no legal residence in the jurisdiction it is not practicable to process them by way of summons and in these circumstances a Police Officer has the power to arrest them and bring them before the earliest court sitting.
The legislation is section 25 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act and applies throughout the UK - a foreign driver anywhere in the UK and not just Northern Ireland is liable to arrest in these circumstances .

Most ill-advised to think that if arrested you '' will be out within an hour '' as the OP suggests - the purpose of arrest is so as to enable the offender to be brought before the next available court sitting - which very often is the next day.
If unlucky enough to be arrested on a Saturday evening be aware the courts don't sit on Sunday :eek:

CiniO

Delancey wrote: »

The legal position regarding motoring offences committed by those non-resident in Northern Ireland is as follows - where a person has no legal residence in the jurisdiction it is not practicable to process them by way of summons and in these circumstances a Police Officer has the power to arrest them and bring them before the earliest court sitting.
The legislation is section 25 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act and applies throughout the UK - a foreign driver anywhere in the UK and not just Northern Ireland is liable to arrest in these circumstances .

Most ill-advised to think that if arrested you '' will be out within an hour '' as the OP suggests - the purpose of arrest is so as to enable the offender to be brought before the next available court sitting - which very often is the next day.
If unlucky enough to be arrested on a Saturday evening be aware the courts don't sit on Sunday :eek:

The mad idea above it, is that's all apply to small offences.
I know that NI is not a transit country, but imagine if the same rules applies in Luxembourg, and you would be driving from France, through Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria to Slovenia.
Would you be happy to be arrested in Luxembourg, for speeding by 10km/h and be obliged to go to court in Luxembourg next day, even you were planning to be in Slovenia already that day.

Absolutely mad idea for me.

On the spot fines for foreign drivers seems to be the only reasonable solution at the moment.

gaatipstr

Firstly Im not making up any of the story. All parts of the story are true.
The only reason i handed it over was that when the policeman stopped me and mentioned arrest i wasnt going to argue with him.
I got a £60 ticket off him that has all my Reg details and his details but he said dont pay that fine and wait till the police contact me about the speeding course.
I dont mind doing the course its just a lot of hastle getting to belfast as im working just on the donegal border. Id rather get the points on my ''northern'' Licence.

And for your information there is plenty of 40mph Zones. Im working in around Omagh/Strabane/Castlederg area and there are plenty of 40 zones. They are normally when you come into towns/Villages. It will change to 40 then to 30.

Speaking to many people up here, ive been told that because I was a southern driver with a southern car and licence and that im young that they were only trying to intimidate me. I was told I shouldnt of given them my licence at all.

Today is the last day to pay for this course so it looks like im going to have to that now

gaatipstr

Fishtits wrote: »

Not so.

I've just been talking to a PSNI Officer, who admitted she was rusty on the road stuff but did say that taking his license seemed very unusual and she couldn't say for certain if it was kosher TBH.

The usual course of action was either to issue a verbal warning and on your way, or arrest and present to a magistrate/court. The latter course of action usually only taken when the offender is really taking the p*ss either by the speed/manner of driving they were doing or their attitude when stopped.

The arrest issue is due to the fact that you are non resident.

PS. I suspect the OP isn't telling us everything...

Im after telling you everything so dont be coming on here telling me otherwise.
I was co-operative with the policeman, did what he asked. Gave him relavant information and wasnt cheeky or smart etc.

The Guvnor

The bobby in question must have been having a bad day or been on a very high horse that day.

I would talk to a solicitor in the north. Not at all an expert but I doubt he followed procedure to the letter.

I know of one other person was caught speeding and the bobby gave him the full riot act - according to the person the bobby was saying things like:

• I'll have to arrest you...
• Courts are closed...
• Night in slammer....
• In front of judge in the am on Monday....
• It was a Friday...
• He goes on like this for ten minutes or so...
• Then the bombshell...
• Or you can pay an on the spot fine of £60
• The chap said - could you not have told me this at the start...
• Bobby wry smile etc.

It would be helpful now for us all to find out exactly what the law is in these situations so if any of us are ever in the same situation we can argue our case with accurate information.

For the record - I never heard of a ghost licence - put 1000 points on it as we're unlikely to apply for one!

gaatipstr

The thing is the course has to be paid by today so I dont know what to do. I prob wont get down to a police station till tomorrow so that would be too late. I may just do the course, lose a days pay, pay for diesel to belfast and back. Such a hastle

Our man in Havana

The correct procedure is to arrest, take you to the station then bailed to appear at a court in a few weeks time. Normally a surety of £300 is needed which is offset against the fine in court.

franksm

You may as well do the training, it looks like the easier option to be honest. I bet you only get one chance to have the 'education' option too, I can't see them allowing it for everyone every time.

If people weren't taking the p!ss by driving at 100mph all the time on the A1, etc, the cops probably wouldn't be so hard on the rest of us that do habitually go 10 or 15% over the limit.

pat1981

A bit late now but maybe something to consider in the future, argos are selling a sat nav half price about 120 euro (mio 689). It tells you what the speed limit of that particular road you are traveling on and warns you if you exceed, a great feature, not that I speed but can happen to anyone.
I would pay for the course personally, going to a solicitor will cost you money my guy charges me 250 an hour for work, don't know what the rates are in the north. best of luck.

WestWing

franksm wrote: »

If people weren't taking the p!ss by driving at 100mph all the time on the A1, etc, the cops probably wouldn't be so hard on the rest of us that do habitually go 10 or 15% over the limit.

Absolutely.

Every time i drive to Belfast i'm constantly passed by Irish reg cars doing 75mph+ in a 60mph zone.

At this stage most people should know that if you speed on the A1 and are caught the cops are gonna give you hassle.

franksm

Ed Zachary - and the 60mph zones were put in for some very good reasons (a quick Google should tell the story). In fact I don't think there have been any more fatalities from those perpendicular crossings/junctions since the 60mph zones were put in place.

I cant see how he had any right to take your license OP. You should get some legal advise, if it turns out that legally he shouldn't have taken your license this could mean the whole thing could be thrown out as he didn't follow procedure.

As an added bonus the officer might get into hassle over it too and nothing more than he deserves for not letting you on your way with a warning.

The Guvnor

TBF now even NI reg cars go quick on the road to Belfast - many do in excess of 70mph and in Belfast according to hearsay and conjecture people rarely get done for speeding.

I once made Belfast rather quickly as I discretely followed three blacked out Range Rovers going very quick - front and rear taking up two lanes middle car obviously with the VIP.

OP - Hope you get it sorted and as was said do get some legal advice as IMO the officer did not follow procedure.

Plenty of solicitors in the north are affordable.

Anan1

Emerie Gentle Guava wrote: »

As an added bonus the officer might get into hassle over it too and nothing more than he deserves for not letting you on your way with a warning.

And the officer might avoid any such future 'hassle' by arresting all Southern speeders, charging them, and having them released on bail. They gave the OP a choice, and the OP chose the course.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

And the officer might avoid any such future 'hassle' by arresting all Southern speeders, charging them, and having them released on bail. They gave the OP a choice, and the OP chose the course.

I was hoping more that he might have bit of cop on and just give a warning thus avoiding extra work for himself and putting a person through being arrested for a few mph over the limit. Which lets face it is an absolute joke.

scoobymunster

Emerie Gentle Guava wrote: »

I was hoping more that he might have bit of cop on and just give a warning thus avoiding extra work for himself and putting a person through being arrested for a few mph over the limit. Which lets face it is an absolute joke.

No offence to the OP but lets use the OP as an example. They were caught doing 40 in a 30 which is 33% over the limit. The police are highly unlikely to stop you doing 34 in a 30 are they? considering there's greater concerns of working for the PSNI, doing someone for being only a few mph over is highly unlikely. It's when your clearly speeding that they pull you in, and IMHO, rightly so.

Anan1

Emerie Gentle Guava wrote: »

I was hoping more that he might have bit of cop on and just give a warning thus avoiding extra work for himself and putting a person through being arrested for a few mph over the limit. Which lets face it is an absolute joke.

You honestly think he'll be nicer to Southern drivers because one reported him? The reason they arrest and bail ROI drivers is that most of them wouldn't pay the fine otherwise. In other words, we've dug our own hole.

CiniO

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The correct procedure is to arrest, take you to the station

Would they take you in the squad car to the station?
What happens with your car then?
What if f.e. you are in charge of a small child which is with you in the car?
Would the child be arrested as well?

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

Would they take you in the squad car to the station?
What happens with your car then?
What if f.e. you are in charge of a small child which is with you in the car?
Would the child be arrested as well?

Presumably they'd bring your car and let you keep the small child with you. Arrest just means that you have to go with them, it doesn't necessarily involve handcuffs and cells.;)

gaatipstr

Sorry for digging up an old thread but just want to tell the complete story now that its finally over

- First week of September got pulled over and surrendered licence (Read OP)
- First week of October got offered a place in the speeding course
- On talking to local Sergeant he advised me to pay fine instead
- Middle of October sent off fine
- Middle of November recieved my licence in the post (Posted to an NI address I used)
- Start of december I recieve a cheque for the fine i paid (£60)
- First week of January I recieve a summons in the post (My republic address) to appear in court in NI
- Talk to a solicitor in NI and he tells me straight up that the case has lots of flaws, taking of licence, summons not handed to me etc
- Last friday, I recieve a letter from solicitor stating that the court could not provide evidence that i recieved summons. Now the letter more or less said that that's the end of it but that the courts could contact me again but more than likely wouldnt.

What I have learned is that NEVER surrender your licence. They have no right to take it. Be careful when speeding up North as people up there have warned me that the cops are sick of southerners coming over the border and speeding knowing they cant get points so the cops are clamping down on it.

One more note, altough It's not really important but a lot of people have told me I got done because the PSNI is mostly Protestant and that they will do Catholic drivers and that if it had to been a catholic policeman he would of let me go. This came from locals in the area btw.
When the summons arrived I noticed the policemans name and it was Irish as they come just thought it was a little funny as it clearly stuck out.

Any way five months after incident, everything is finally cleared up. Just take it easy up North as there will be a cross border agreement in the near future.

Thanks for any advice/opinions posted on the thread.

Gareth2011

gaatipstr wrote: »

Sorry for digging up an old thread but just want to tell the complete story now that its finally over

- First week of September got pulled over and surrendered licence (Read OP)
- First week of October got offered a place in the speeding course
- On talking to local Sergeant he advised me to pay fine instead
- Middle of October sent off fine
- Middle of November recieved my licence in the post (Posted to an NI address I used)
- Start of december I recieve a cheque for the fine i paid (£60)
- First week of January I recieve a summons in the post (My republic address) to appear in court in NI
- Talk to a solicitor in NI and he tells me straight up that the case has lots of flaws, taking of licence, summons not handed to me etc
- Last friday, I recieve a letter from solicitor stating that the court could not provide evidence that i recieved summons. Now the letter more or less said that that's the end of it but that the courts could contact me again but more than likely wouldnt.

What I have learned is that NEVER surrender your licence. They have no right to take it. Be careful when speeding up North as people up there have warned me that the cops are sick of southerners coming over the border and speeding knowing they cant get points so the cops are clamping down on it.

One more note, altough It's not really important but a lot of people have told me I got done because the PSNI is mostly Protestant and that they will do Catholic drivers and that if it had to been a catholic policeman he would of let me go. This came from locals in the area btw.
When the summons arrived I noticed the policemans name and it was Irish as they come just thought it was a little funny as it clearly stuck out.

Any way five months after incident, everything is finally cleared up. Just take it easy up North as there will be a cross border agreement in the near future.

Thanks for any advice/opinions posted on the thread.

Thanks for the update. I was coming from Donegal going to Cavan before and we were late for the wifes niece's wedding. The wife was really upset that she wouldn't be there at the start so I put the foot down and shaved about 20 mins off the journey. If a cop saw me id be really fcuked. On good note we got there just as the wedding car was pulling in to church grounds .

Jaysoose

gaatipstr wrote: »

Sorry for digging up an old thread but just want to tell the complete story now that its finally over

- First week of September got pulled over and surrendered licence (Read OP)
- First week of October got offered a place in the speeding course
- On talking to local Sergeant he advised me to pay fine instead
- Middle of October sent off fine
- Middle of November recieved my licence in the post (Posted to an NI address I used)
- Start of december I recieve a cheque for the fine i paid (£60)
- First week of January I recieve a summons in the post (My republic address) to appear in court in NI
- Talk to a solicitor in NI and he tells me straight up that the case has lots of flaws, taking of licence, summons not handed to me etc
- Last friday, I recieve a letter from solicitor stating that the court could not provide evidence that i recieved summons. Now the letter more or less said that that's the end of it but that the courts could contact me again but more than likely wouldnt.

What I have learned is that NEVER surrender your licence. They have no right to take it. Be careful when speeding up North as people up there have warned me that the cops are sick of southerners coming over the border and speeding knowing they cant get points so the cops are clamping down on it.

One more note, altough It's not really important but a lot of people have told me I got done because the PSNI is mostly Protestant and that they will do Catholic drivers and that if it had to been a catholic policeman he would of let me go. This came from locals in the area btw.
When the summons arrived I noticed the policemans name and it was Irish as they come just thought it was a little funny as it clearly stuck out.

Any way five months after incident, everything is finally cleared up. Just take it easy up North as there will be a cross border agreement in the near future.

Thanks for any advice/opinions posted on the thread.

You were doing so well up until the part in bold..your "friend" is talking bollox.

johnos1984

Jaysoose wrote: »

gaatipstr wrote: »

Sorry for digging up an old thread but just want to tell the complete story now that its finally over

- First week of September got pulled over and surrendered licence (Read OP)
- First week of October got offered a place in the speeding course
- On talking to local Sergeant he advised me to pay fine instead
- Middle of October sent off fine
- Middle of November recieved my licence in the post (Posted to an NI address I used)
- Start of december I recieve a cheque for the fine i paid (£60)
- First week of January I recieve a summons in the post (My republic address) to appear in court in NI
- Talk to a solicitor in NI and he tells me straight up that the case has lots of flaws, taking of licence, summons not handed to me etc
- Last friday, I recieve a letter from solicitor stating that the court could not provide evidence that i recieved summons. Now the letter more or less said that that's the end of it but that the courts could contact me again but more than likely wouldnt.

What I have learned is that NEVER surrender your licence. They have no right to take it. Be careful when speeding up North as people up there have warned me that the cops are sick of southerners coming over the border and speeding knowing they cant get points so the cops are clamping down on it.

One more note, altough It's not really important but a lot of people have told me I got done because the PSNI is mostly Protestant and that they will do Catholic drivers and that if it had to been a catholic policeman he would of let me go. This came from locals in the area btw.
When the summons arrived I noticed the policemans name and it was Irish as they come just thought it was a little funny as it clearly stuck out.

Any way five months after incident, everything is finally cleared up. Just take it easy up North as there will be a cross border agreement in the near future.

Thanks for any advice/opinions posted on the thread.

You were doing so well up until the part in bold..your "friend" is talking bollox.

I beg to differ but it's not a conversation for motors

gaatipstr

Jaysoose wrote: »

You were doing so well up until the part in bold..your "friend" is talking bollox.

Not to be smart or sneery but could you not see the sarcasism? I know for a fact that the PSNI has many religions working for them. I just thought it was funny after people telling me this that the policeman that pulled me in had a very irish name thus proving them wrong even though I knew from the start?

Where To

gaatipstr wrote: »

Not to be smart or sneery but could you not see the sarcasism? I know for a fact that the PSNI has many religions working for them. I just thought it was funny after people telling me this that the policeman that pulled me in had a very irish name thus proving them wrong even though I knew from the start?

Unless it started with 'Father' there's no way of telling his religion up there

I'm sure the PSNI have the same attitude to drivers from a different jurisdiction taking the p!ss on the roads as AGS do.

keithclancy

Never been stopped in the North.

Wouldn't surrender anything to a foreign authority without consulting the issuing authority of that document first.

Only a matter of time before it happens where someone goes to th European court on the basis of discrimination.

E.G. That if it can be proven a:
1. Non NI Resident (Republic Resident) was taken to Jail until a Judge could be found
2. A Non NI Resident (Non Republic Resident) was not taken to Jail.

Our man in Havana

It happens all the time here. Licence is taken at the side of the road and is then sent to the Irish embassy where it can be retrieved in person.