Penalty points for cyclists

monument

SeanW wrote: »

The poster I was responding to prefaced both the origional points, "good" paralell motorway and "good" road.

This clearly suggested that motorists broke parking rules for the craic and as for the motorway ... I have no idea what his/her point was since toll dodging isn't illegal and isn't unethical either.

It does not matter why motorists break parking rules and block footpaths -- just like cycling on footpaths, parking on them is an illegal, often unsafe, and foolish thing to do. You seem to be giving out about cycling on footpaths but defending parking on footpaths???

The point on not using a motorway when it could be used -- to avoid a toll or whatever -- the point is that it is in many ways just like advoiding a lot of cycle tracks --- ie both are not illegal and not unethical either. The main difference is using a motorway is generally safer, while using a cycle track to Irish standards can often be less safe than the road.

dermo88

yet another politically correct heap of nonsense. I am perfectly capable of cycling safely where there is no traffic after 6 Pints and 2 whiskies. Fortunately, out here in the developing world, the last rookie police officer who DARED stop me got the face eaten off him by the local chief superintendent who I happen to drink with and I am on the same pool team as him. Whats up?

Rookie cop "Were you drinking"

Me "Your damn right I was"

Rookie cop "Can I see your ID"

Me "Sure, but do you want a drink or a transfer" (gets phone and calls Chief Super Rodwan.....smiling.....the same smile a shark gives when he sees a nice tasty mackerel)

Rookie cop "Did you see the arrows"

Me "Follow the arrows.....I did'nt see any Indians" (police officer laughs nervously) Phone ringing

(Ah Rodwan, Dermo here, small little problem on the way home with badge C186P. Hahaha.....yeah I know......why do you think I use a bicycle instead of a car. Besides, its only 3km on a quiet back road. Oh......he just out collecting bribes. Put him on.....sure)

Me "Officer.....phone call for you"

Cop on my phone (Yes sir, yes sir.....ok....yes sir)

Copper "Sorry Mr Dermo"

Me "No problem, have a good evening"

(*thinks.....bet the poor bugger would never suspect a pissed white guy on a bike knew his boss)

Its a bit like a liberal tropical version of the Ireland I used to know before I left. The Ireland where common sense prevailed, before lawyers, Health and Safety freaks, and jobsworths took over and screwed it up.

Penalty points.....

I'll wipe my bum with them

Cookie_Monster

dermo88 wrote: »

Me "Sure, but do you want a drink or a transfer" (gets phone and calls Chief Super Rodwan.....smiling.....the same smile a shark gives when he sees a nice tasty mackerel)

threatening a cop and using connections to get yourself off. all very mafia... :D;):p

invinciblePRSTV

dermo88 wrote: »

yet another politically correct heap of nonsense. I am perfectly capable of cycling safely where there is no traffic after 6 Pints and 2 whiskies. Fortunately, out here in the developing world, the last rookie police officer who DARED stop me got the face eaten off him by the local chief superintendent who I happen to drink with and I am on the same pool team as him. Whats up?

Rookie cop "Were you drinking"

Me "Your damn right I was"

Rookie cop "Can I see your ID"

Me "Sure, but do you want a drink or a transfer" (gets phone and calls Chief Super Rodwan.....smiling.....the same smile a shark gives when he sees a nice tasty mackerel)

Rookie cop "Did you see the arrows"

Me "Follow the arrows.....I did'nt see any Indians" (police officer laughs nervously) Phone ringing

(Ah Rodwan, Dermo here, small little problem on the way home with badge C186P. Hahaha.....yeah I know......why do you think I use a bicycle instead of a car. Besides, its only 3km on a quiet back road. Oh......he just out collecting bribes. Put him on.....sure)

Me "Officer.....phone call for you"

Cop on my phone (Yes sir, yes sir.....ok....yes sir)

Copper "Sorry Mr Dermo"

Me "No problem, have a good evening"

(*thinks.....bet the poor bugger would never suspect a pissed white guy on a bike knew his boss)

Its a bit like a liberal tropical version of the Ireland I used to know before I left. The Ireland where common sense prevailed, before lawyers, Health and Safety freaks, and jobsworths took over and screwed it up.

Penalty points.....

I'll wipe my bum with them

Sounds like a story out of FF controlled mid 20th century Ireland.

High time a tough line was taken with all persistant ROTR breakers, be they obnoxious cyclists, w@nker drivers or pedestrians.

Of course some Irish cyclists think their well within their rights to ignore the ROTR as they desire. A classic example is this thread I started elsewhere after nearly being knocked down by a cyclist who ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing which I was walking across. Queue a load of cyclists for the most part trying to justify their law-breaking, cribbing about car drivers etc. Basically blaming everyone but themselves for their behaviour.

In particular keep an eye out for the silly bint who says she won't abide by the ROTR when it's cold and wet!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68949271

dermo88

invinciblePRSTV

Sounds like a story out of FF controlled mid 20th century Ireland.

It is, and since I am on enough money over there, I love it. Less money than Ireland, but cost of living is lower so.....

And its worse than anything Fianna Fail have, but at least I know the barstewards.

High time a tough line was taken with all persistant ROTR breakers, be they obnoxious cyclists, w@nker drivers or pedestrians.

I was'nt obnoxious, but I could see where he was going. White buy = easy cash. So.....I decided to put the little Hitler in his place before he had a chance.

Of course some Irish cyclists think their well within their rights to ignore the ROTR as they desire. A classic example is this thread I started elsewhere after nearly being knocked down by a cyclist who ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing which I was walking across.Of course some Irish cyclists think their well within their rights to ignore the ROTR as they desire. A classic example is this thread I started elsewhere after nearly being knocked down by a cyclist who ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing which I was walking across.

(a) I exercise common sense. That means dismounting and walking when appropriate, taking ones time, and being polite. It also means using common sense, watching all surrounding traffic and paying attention.

Mind, if I am a bit tipsy, I walk her home if I don't feel capable, or safe of riding it. And I take my time. 6 Pints and 2 whiskies is absolute insanity by my own admission, although the feeling of getting home unscathed is ....

"Oh Christ, thank God I made it, am I sane.....never again".

I'd still chance it on 5, only on a quiet road however....never a main.

Kintarō Hattori

SeanW wrote: »

Indeed.

Indeed:

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Old+Cabra+Road,+Dublin&hl=en&ll=53.357467,-6.289179&spn=0.011052,0.027874&sll=53.373344,-6.588986&sspn=0.011099,0.027874&vpsrc=0&hnear=Old+Cabra+Rd,+Dublin&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.357605,-6.289377&panoid=hP9eOvhUPErrhTRdPtoFig&cbp=12,331.87,,0,0

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Drogheda+Street,+Balbriggan&hl=en&ll=53.665137,-6.273451&spn=0.019884,0.144196&sll=53.357608,-6.289372&sspn=0.011103,0.027874&vpsrc=6&hnear=Drogheda+St,+Balbriggan&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.665203,-6.273651&panoid=3DKthHKswjAGRdskDK6LRw&cbp=12,296.63,,0,10.87


Yes that second one is a cycle lane and it ends just as abruptly as it began.

monument

invinciblePRSTV wrote:

Of course some Irish cyclists think their well within their rights to ignore the ROTR as they desire. A classic example is this thread I started elsewhere after nearly being knocked down by a cyclist who ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing which I was walking across. Queue a load of cyclists for the most part trying to justify their law-breaking, cribbing about car drivers etc. Basically blaming everyone but themselves for their behaviour.

In particular keep an eye out for the silly bint who says she won't abide by the ROTR when it's cold and wet!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68949271

There's a good bit of mixed views there -- including cyclists agreeing with you. Are you really shocked that a few young college students don't care about breaking red lights when nobody is around?

The thread is another example of all groups of road users acting the same way -- defending their actions. Just like motorists defend speeding (saying speed limits too low etc) or in this thread defending parking on footpaths (you don't want to block a road, do you?) or peds breaking lights (they take too long to change etc).

Your posts in the thread are part of the examples of blind ranting from both sides -- followed by a mod warning, then by more rants and the thread being locked. Err... So much for following the rules?

invinciblePRSTV

monument wrote: »

Your posts in the thread are part of the examples of blind ranting from both sides -- followed by a mod warning, then by more rants and the thread being locked. Err... So much for following the rules?

Yeah obviously if you had read the OP of that thread - I was lucky not to be mowed over by a cyclist ignoring a Green man - then you'd see why I was exasperated with posters who casually disregard the ROTR. You can call it "blind ranting" if you like, I'd call it stating the obvious. but I just wanted insights into cyclists mentality, which I got.

What that and other threads on boards show is that a significant portion of Irish cyclists are every bit as selfish, deluded and dangerous as their car driving counterparts. Only a real threat of penalty points and fines will curb these bad cyclists habits and behaviours.

PS I love how you casually dismiss "some young college students" cyclists breaking the ROTR as somehow natural and to be expected. Would you hold a similiar dismissive attitude to young drivers having such a cavalier attitude to driving cars and acting the maggot in them? Because I certainly wouldn't.

Unsurprisingly when I clicked on your posting history I see that you have lots of posts in the cycling forum , No wonder you're trying to downplay the awful attitudes of some of your fellow cyclists.

ThisRegard

SeanW wrote: »

You accused me of "making a fool of myself" for saying, sarcastically, that the rules of the road don't apply to cyclists.

First bit is true, and still applies, I've no idea how you came to the conclusion above. My point was, and has been pointed out to you subsequently by others, that some of the points you posted in your list were false.

Kintarō Hattori

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

What that and other threads on boards show is that a significant portion of Irish cyclists are every bit as selfish, deluded and dangerous as their car driving counterparts. Only a real threat of penalty points and fines will curb these bad cyclists habits and behaviours.

Are you really surprised at this? There are lots of crazy motorists/cyclists/pedestrians. There are lots of crazy folk in all walks of life.

I cycle myself and yes I do see lots of crazy annoying cyclists around me. Personally I always stop at red lights, I frequently wave motorists on when they are trying to be accommodating to me, I never mount footpaths and I do sometimes, though not always use the cycle lanes.

The great thing is though, I'm not alone. There are lots of other great cyclists but as with motorists their names are tarnished by some who choose to flout the rules and be aggressive.

Let's be honest here, really. I have no idea what you're like as this is the first time I've seen you posting but you come across as very anti-cyclist. Not just against the poor cyclists but in general. Let's both realize that there are lots of bad cyclists/motorists but equally there are lots of great ones.

corktina

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Are you really surprised at this? There are lots of crazy motorists/cyclists/pedestrians. There are lots of crazy folk in all walks of life.

.

thats what he said....

Kintarō Hattori

corktina wrote: »

thats what he said....

He did and we're in agreement. However having read the thread he started in UCC he really does seem to dislike cyclists. At least that's the impression I got.

monument

I sure you read the whole thread, but just as a reminder: The start of my first post said: "For the record: I can't wait till on-the-spot fines are applied to cyclists."

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Yeah obviously if you had read the OP of that thread - I was lucky not to be mowed over by a cyclist ignoring a Green man - then you'd see why I was exasperated with posters who casually disregard the ROTR. You can call it "blind ranting" if you like, I'd call it stating the obvious. but I just wanted insights into cyclists mentality, which I got.

You got the views of a few cyclist and those views were very mixed -- raning from agreeing with you to having little or no regard for the rules of the road -- but I don't think anybody defended what had happened to you.

I don't agree with break lights one way or another, but breaking lights and nearly hitting somebody is hugely different than somebody breaking the lights when nobody is around.

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

What that and other threads on boards show is that a significant portion of Irish cyclists are every bit as selfish, deluded and dangerous as their car driving counterparts. Only a real threat of penalty points and fines will curb these bad cyclists habits and behaviours.

Pedestrians as a group are no better and possibly the worst of the lot. How are you going to apply penalty points to cyclists and pedestrians?

It's pie in the sky nonsense. It would never work.

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

PS I love how you casually dismiss "some young college students" cyclists breaking the ROTR as somehow natural and to be expected. Would you hold a similiar dismissive attitude to young drivers having such a cavalier attitude to driving cars and acting the maggot in them? Because I certainly wouldn't.

I'll ask again: Are you really shocked that a few young college students don't care about breaking red lights when nobody is around?

I'm not being casually or otherwise being dismissive. There's a large difference between expecting something and being dismissive. Yes, I do expect a lot of people [be they pedestrians, cyclists, or motorists] to defend law breaking and, yes, younger people genially have even more relaxed views on laws and other things. There's no point going around so shocked about such -- does that mean their actions are not a problem and they should be stopped? No it does not.

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Unsurprisingly when I clicked on your posting history I see that you have lots of posts in the cycling forum , No wonder you're trying to downplay the awful attitudes of some of your fellow cyclists.

In which part of which post do I try to "to downplay the awful attitudes of some of your fellow cyclists"?

You did not do a great job at stalking me anyway -- Did you miss the recent thread where I gave out to a cyclist for undertaking a motorist when he should not and ask what's the harm in giving peds a bit of respect? See my posts here and here.

Or the thread where I back the idea of on-the-spot-fines for cyclists? Or if you go back a little further you should spot even more threads where I give out about cyclists breaking lights and going the wrong way down streets etc.

Also, have you not being warned before about attacking the poster rather than the post?

dermo88

monument

The start of my first post said: "For the record: I can't wait till on-the-spot fines are applied to cyclists."

Time to hit the Johnny Walker at Christmas time. 10 miles to the gallon on Guinness.......teeheehee

And I can't wait for them to send the summons to KL. I can just see the look on his face when he sees the address and the identity card. The poor copper will go "oh shucks". As for the judge, I'll do a Tommy Suharto on him. I'll be more trouble than I am worth.

Fly out of Dublin Airport.....two weeks in Ireland three times a year. It won't be worth the hassle for them.

I'll burn it. In front of them. Just wait......

mowhawk

seamus wrote: »

However, the vast bulk of offences which attract penalty points are offences which can only be committed by mechanically-propelled vehicles.

Try running red lights. Someone somewhere must run courses on this as almost every cyclist to a man or woman has an expertise in it (they don't even slow down a lot of the time). And did someone just mention 'cyclopath'.

Capt'n Midnight

do the words driver and vehicle apply to cyclists under Irish law ?

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/accidents-gardai-and-penalties/penalty-points-fixed-charge-offences/index.html

Penalty points
Dangerous overtaking

Failure to stop a vehicle before stop sign/ stop line

Failure to obey traffic lights

Failure to obey requirements at junctions, e.g. not being in the correct lane when turning onto another road

Driving on a footpath except to access a premises or a place across the road

Illegal entry onto a one-way street


Fixed charge offences
Failure by driver to give appropriate signals by use of indicators or specified hand signals when intending to slow down, stop or change course

Entering a yellow box junction partly or wholly, unless the driver can clear the area

Driving a vehicle other than a light rail vehicle on a tram lane

monument

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

do the words driver and vehicle apply to cyclists under Irish law ?

Not always, and not relating to penalty points.

For reasons already outlined penalty points don't make sense for cyclists, but on-the-spot-fines do.

Capt'n Midnight

monument wrote: »

Not always, and not relating to penalty points.

For reasons already outlined penalty points don't make sense for cyclists, but on-the-spot-fines do.

there are fines for all the offences I've listed, but not sure if they can be on the spot

monument

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

there are fines for all the offences I've listed, but not sure if they can be on the spot

No on-the-spot fine can currently be applied to a cyclist -- cyclist currently can be only brought to court or just warned.

The department of transport could introduce on-the-spot fine for cyclists, and such is promised in the national cycle policy, but the department is dragging its heals -- see this thread here.