Penalty points for cyclists

corktina

as I'm now a cyclist of sorts, I just wondered, if I ran a red light on my bike or similar, would I get points if a gard caught me? Maybe points are only for when you transgress in a motor vehicle?

kate.m

cyclists don't get penalty points

I could be wrong about this but I think it's because they don't pay motor tax ect.

Corkbah

corktina wrote: »

as I'm now a cyclist of sorts, I just wondered, if I ran a red light on my bike or similar, would I get points if a gard caught me? Maybe points are only for when you transgress in a motor vehicle?

its illegal and if caught you face a court appearance/fine - and hearing some garda rant about safety...danger..blah blah blah.

but no penalty points

seamus

Strictly speaking, there is nothing to prevent penalty points from being applied to cyclists. Penalty points are incurred where a specific offence under the road traffic act has occured.

However, the vast bulk of offences which attract penalty points are offences which can only be committed by mechanically-propelled vehicles. For example, there is no speed limit for bicycles on any road, only an obligation to cycle at a speed where the cyclist can stop safely within the distance they can see to be clear.

So it would be exceptional for a cyclist to have penalty points applied.

However, because some offences carry disqualification orders, but are not explicitly linked to driving a vehicle it is possible to lose your licence for an offence committed while cycling.

So there's no reason why penalty points cannot be applied to a cyclist, if the offence committed is not vehicle-specific.

RobbieTheRobber

seamus wrote: »

Strictly speaking, there is nothing to prevent penalty points from being applied to cyclists. Penalty points are incurred where a specific offence under the road traffic act has occured.

However, the vast bulk of offences which attract penalty points are offences which can only be committed by mechanically-propelled vehicles. For example, there is no speed limit for bicycles on any road, only an obligation to cycle at a speed where the cyclist can stop safely within the distance they can see to be clear.

So it would be exceptional for a cyclist to have penalty points applied.

However, because some offences carry disqualification orders, but are not explicitly linked to driving a vehicle it is possible to lose your licence for an offence committed while cycling.

So there's no reason why penalty points cannot be applied to a cyclist, if the offence committed is not vehicle-specific.

Wouldnt this also need all cyclists to be licensed/registered?

Rawr

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wouldnt this also need all cyclists to be licensed/registered?

Pretty much. Having points applied at all would probably depend on actually having a Driver's Licence (and ultimately, a licence to lose if too many points are earned).

Thus, I guess you'd have to have some kind of Cyclist's Licence to have points applied to for reckless or illegal cycling.

murphaph

A mate of mine in Cologne lost his licence for being drunk in charge of a bike. He had clocked up 11 points with his car and the bike points put him over.

seamus

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wouldnt this also need all cyclists to be licensed/registered?

Rawr wrote: »

Pretty much. Having points applied at all would probably depend on actually having a Driver's Licence (and ultimately, a licence to lose if too many points are earned).

Thus, I guess you'd have to have some kind of Cyclist's Licence to have points applied to for reckless or illegal cycling.

Not necessarily. Points can be "held" against your record until you get a licence, in the same way that points are held against foreign-licenced drivers.

In any case, it's theoretically possible for a judge to impose penalty points in his discretion if the offence you committed carries penalty points. You don't legally have to have a licence to get points. It's recorded against the driver's PPSN IIRC. The points aren't actually recorded on your licence.

Cyclists cannot get penalty points on the side of the road, because in order to prosecute, a Garda has to bring a cyclist to court (no cycling offences have on-the-spot fines). So the only instance where penalty points can be applied is by a judge in court, and where the offence committed carries points.

If 12 points are accumulated, even in the absence of a licence, the disqualification would still apply as it's a disqualification from holding a licence, not a disqualification of your current licence.

I'm not saying that this is something which should be done. It would be utterly pointless, for obvious reasons, but it's a theoretical possibility. On-the-spot fines would be far more effective.

tenchi-fan

murphaph wrote: »

A mate of mine in Cologne lost his licence for being drunk in charge of a bike. He had clocked up 11 points with his car and the bike points put him over.

He should have got a solicitor. This sounds ridiculous and a judge threw out a similar "drink driving" case recently when he discovered the driver was actually a cyclist.

coylemj

tenchi-fan wrote: »

He should have got a solicitor. This sounds ridiculous and a judge threw out a similar "drink driving" case recently when he discovered the driver was actually a cyclist.

There is no automatic disqualification for drunk driving when riding a bike or in control of an animal drawn vehicle but it doesn't mean you can't be disqualified at the discretion of the judge as you can be for most offences under the RTA.

You can also be disqualified if convicted of certain non-traffic offences like theft and burglary if the Gardai show that a mechanically propelled vehicle was used in the commission of the crime.

You seem to be implying that there is no such thing as 'drunk driving' when riding a bike in which case may I refer to you S.51 of the RTA 1961...

51.—(1) A person shall not, in a public place—

(a) drive or attempt to drive, or be in charge of, an animal drawn vehicle, or
(b) drive or attempt to drive a pedal cycle,

while he is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle or cycle.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0051.html#sec51

SeanW

corktina wrote: »

as I'm now a cyclist of sorts, I just wondered, if I ran a red light on my bike or similar, would I get points if a gard caught me? Maybe points are only for when you transgress in a motor vehicle?

"Rules of the Road" don't apply to cyclists. :rolleyes:

Just ask any of the gob****es who:
Ride on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle lane beside them
Plow through pedestrian crossings (with pedestrians crossing) when the lights are against them
Turn onto junctions (with a "yield" sign against them) without looking for oncoming traffic
Cycle on the footpath
Cycle on the road, 2 or more side-by-side.

stovelid

They can't get points AFAIK.

Why do you think they do what they please on the roads?

seamus

stovelid wrote: »

Why do you think they do what they please on the roads?

Because the Gardai can't be arsed enforcing the law?

stovelid

seamus wrote: »

Because the Gardai can't be arsed enforcing the law?

True.

Garda enforcement is the only reason I don't run people off the road, drive on the path wearing earphones and break red lights in my car - nothing to do with my own voluntary expression of courtesy to other road users and pedestrians.

seamus

stovelid wrote: »

True.

Garda enforcement is the only reason I don't run people off the road, drive on the path wearing earphones and break red lights in my car - nothing to do with my own voluntary expression of courtesy to other road users and pedestrians.

Might be true of you, but not of the majority of other road users.

I can remember being queried by a young driver one day;

"Why are you stopped at the lights?"
"...cos they're red"
"Can you get points?"
"No"
"So why are you stopped at the lights?"

Confused, I asked him,
"Why are you stopped at the lights"
"Cos I can get points"

There are just as many idiots drivers out there as there are idiot cyclists. Just the idiot drivers are slightly better kept in line by the potential penalties.
We're also (for whatever reason) a little more tolerant of drivers doing dumb things than cyclists doing dumb things.

stovelid

seamus wrote: »

Might be true of you, but not of the majority of other road users.

I can remember being queried by a young driver one day;

"Why are you stopped at the lights?"
"...cos they're red"
"Can you get points?"
"No"
"So why are you stopped at the lights?"

Confused, I asked him,
"Why are you stopped at the lights"
"Cos I can get points"

There are just as many idiots drivers out there as there are idiot cyclists. Just the idiot drivers are slightly better kept in line by the potential penalties.
We're also (for whatever reason) a little more tolerant of drivers doing dumb things than cyclists doing dumb things.

Punish them all then.

seamus

Agreed.

ThisRegard

SeanW wrote: »

"Rules of the Road" don't apply to cyclists. :rolleyes:

Just ask any of the gob****es who:
Ride on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle lane beside them
Plow through pedestrian crossings (with pedestrians crossing) when the lights are against them
Turn onto junctions (with a "yield" sign against them) without looking for oncoming traffic
Cycle on the footpath
Cycle on the road, 2 or more side-by-side.

Maybe brush up on the rules of the road before you post
and make a fool of yourself again.

Cookie_Monster

SeanW wrote: »

"Rules of the Road" don't apply to cyclists. :rolleyes:

Just ask any of the gob****es who:
Ride on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle lane beside them
Plow through pedestrian crossings (with pedestrians crossing) when the lights are against them
Turn onto junctions (with a "yield" sign against them) without looking for oncoming traffic
Cycle on the footpath
Cycle on the road, 2 or more side-by-side.

rules of the road don't apply to anyone if you want to be smart about it, they are merely a simplified interpretation of the road traffic acts which are the actual law.

Nothing wrong with riding 2 abreast on the road or using the road instead of cycle lanes, it's much safer.

SeanW

ThisRegard wrote: »

Maybe brush up on the rules of the road before you post
and make a fool of yourself again.

They may apply in theory, but in practice it's another story. If you're not aware of that, you should think carefully about your glass house before you start throwing stones.

or using the road instead of cycle lanes, it's much safer.

Indeed.

BenShermin

SeanW wrote: »

Indeed.

Hmm, so putting up one example of a safe cycle lane proves that cyclists are safer to stick to them. I only had to turn the streetview camera around to prove just how ridiculously unsafe (downright dangerous in fact) the cycle lane actually is:

http://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.373229,-6.58905&spn=0.007335,0.021136&t=m&vpsrc=0&layer=c&cbll=53.373123,-6.589116&panoid=sefmeY3uOC3HmBq9DUF1sw&cbp=12,201.95,,0,19.97&z=16

A great example here of bus passengers, the bus itself and the cyclists being forced to use the same space. Meanwhile in a scenario like this I wait and wait and wait on my bike here for the bus to depart safely so I can get back onto the excellent bike lane:rolleyes:, but I'm being delayed by "courteous" car drivers who keep overtaking the bus even though the bus driver has the right indicator on for the last 30 seconds:mad:.

Cookie_Monster

SeanW wrote: »

Indeed.

road will be cleaner, less chance of debris, glass etc, less chance of muppet pedestrians in the middle of the lane, less chance of getting squashed by people coming out of driveways on the left there, better (safer) right of way if you want to turn right or cross the road on the left further on etc etc etc

monument

For the record: I can't wait till on-the-spot fines are applied to cyclists.

SeanW wrote: »

"Rules of the Road" don't apply to cyclists. :rolleyes:

There's really not that much different between motorists and cyclists...

SeanW wrote: »

Ride on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle lane beside them
Plow through pedestrian crossings (with pedestrians crossing) when the lights are against them
Turn onto junctions (with a "yield" sign against them) without looking for oncoming traffic
Cycle on the footpath

Motorists go on roads when there's a good parallel motorway, and they park on the footpath where there's a good road beside them.
Motorists break ped light all the time (hugely blind to filter lights mostly, but not only). Don't even take notice of the pram half the time.
When travelling last in a car, the driver was doing about 100km and a car pulled out of a side road even thought we were in plain sight -- sad thing is that motorist do this all the time.
And as already, just like motorists park on the footpath. And it's not hard to see why cyclists use the footpaths so much with "cycle track" designs like the one you linked to -- it's little more than a footpath with some more ramps and markings.

SeanW wrote: »

Cycle on the road, 2 or more side-by-side.

There's nothing wrong or illegal with two cyclists side by side and I've never seen more than two doing it except at events or where the third was passing the first two.

SeanW wrote: »

They may apply in theory, but in practice it's another story. If you're not aware of that, you should think carefully about your glass house before you start throwing stones.

How many times have you seen motorists breaking the law and not getting caught? Only a fraction of motorists get caught compared to the amout that break laws daily.

Better enforcement of the rules of the road for all users -- including cyclists -- is what is needed.

SeanW wrote: »

Indeed.

Those apparent cycle lanes are missing the correct signs, thus they are nothing more than footpaths. And even if they were legal cycle lanes they are hugely flawed and far less safe than taking to the road.

ThisRegard

SeanW wrote: »

They may apply in theory, but in practice it's another story. If you're not aware of that, you should think carefully about your glass house before you start throwing stones.

I've no idea what you're talking about in relation to my post.

Victor

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wouldnt this also need all cyclists to be licensed/registered?

Many cyclsits do have driving licences. Where they don't have a licence and they receive penalty points, they receive those points on a shadow licence.

zenno

corktina wrote: »

as I'm now a cyclist of sorts, I just wondered, if I ran a red light on my bike or similar, would I get points if a gard caught me? Maybe points are only for when you transgress in a motor vehicle?

o.p I would be more worried about getting crushed by a ton of metal after breaking the red lights than any penalty points. just don't break red lights.

SeanW

monument wrote: »

Those apparent cycle lanes are missing the correct signs, thus they are nothing more than footpaths. And even if they were legal cycle lanes they are hugely flawed and far less safe than taking to the road.

I was there not too long ago (public transport + walking) and from what I recall it was a very good cycle lane using part of a very large footpath, going all the way from the centre of Maynooth town for about 1 or 2km to the M4 junction.

That bus stop was an anomoly, which I had forgotten, besides from what I can see, there's always going to be a conflict between stopping buses/passengers and cyclists, where provisions for both are expected.

There was no excuse for a cyclist not to be using the cycle line in question, at least most of it, but when I was there I saw about 50% of the cyclists using the road.

In any case, with it being a marked track that was physically separated from motor traffic, I don't know what else you want, and why you complain about it being a "footpath." You would think that cyclists never cycled on ACTUAL footpaths to read some of the responses. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ThisRegard wrote: »

I've no idea what you're talking about in relation to my post.

You accused me of "making a fool of myself" for saying, sarcastically, that the rules of the road don't apply to cyclists. I said that if you think that cyclists regard the rules of the road as applicable to them in the real world, you live in the (proverbial) glass house and shouldn't throw the (proverbial) stones. It was a polite way of saying that it is not me who'se making a fool of myself, but perhaps that was too subtle for you.

Motorists go on roads when there's a good parallel motorway, and they park on the footpath where there's a good road beside them.

False, and false. Only a sado masochistic motorist would travel on paralell roads when there's a perfectly good motorway beside them, if a motorist does this it's generally because

1. They are Learner drivers accompanied by a full licenseholder on a long trip.
2. They are avoiding a toll.

On the last point toll =/= good motorway. The problem here is that the government seems to think that the motorist is a perfect milking cow that never moos and never runs out of milk. Funny that after paying perhaps €600+ in road tax, perhaps thousands in VRT and VAT (including VAT on VRT I believe) or a percentage of that as the purchase price of a 2nd hand car, VAT+excise on fuel, insurance, NCT costs, sometimes people don't feel so generous when it comes to being asked to pay €2-€3 to cross a bridge ... Funny that?

Oh and BTW if cyclists were treated as milk cows like motorists are, and for example a lovely cycle track or cyclists bridge was built, but you had to pay a €3 toll to use it, ye would dodge it too. Don't even bother denying it.

There is nothing illegal or immoral about toll dodging. It is an inevitable function of motorway tolling.

And your point about motorists parking on footpaths when there's a "good road" beside them is also false. I almost never see a motorist parked on a footpath unless the road is too narrow to accomodate 2 directions of traffic plus roadside parking. Or, when the road is wider, but is marked with multiple traffic lanes and/or bus lanes and has no space allowed for parking.

Why would someone mount a kerb to park on a footpath when there's no need to?

I suggest you double check your definitions of "good motorway" and "good road"

Blowfish

SeanW wrote: »

I was there not too long ago (public transport + walking) and from what I recall it was a very good cycle lane using part of a very large footpath, going all the way from the centre of Maynooth town for about 1/2km to the M4 junction.

That bus stop was an anomoly, which I had forgotten, besides from what I can see, there's always going to be a conflict between stopping buses/passengers and cyclists, where provisions for both are expected.

There was no excuse for a cyclist not to be using the cycle line in question, at least most of it, but when I was there I saw about 50% of the cyclists using the road.

In any case, with it being a marked track that was physically separated from motor traffic, I don't know what else you want, and why you complain about it being a "footpath." You would think that cyclists never cycled on ACTUAL footpaths to read some of the responses. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Cruising speed for someone who cycles regularly would usually be 30-40 kmh. Do you genuinely think it's a good idea for something travelling at that speed to be on the footpath?

monument

SeanW wrote: »

I was there not too long ago (public transport + walking) and from what I recall it was a very good cycle lane using part of a very large footpath, going all the way from the centre of Maynooth town for about 1 or 2km to the M4 junction.

That bus stop was an anomoly, which I had forgotten, besides from what I can see, there's always going to be a conflict between stopping buses/passengers and cyclists, where provisions for both are expected.

There was no excuse for a cyclist not to be using the cycle line in question, at least most of it, but when I was there I saw about 50% of the cyclists using the road.

What are you comparing it to? A very good cycle lane?

It's flawed in many ways:

• Very poor junction design with the side roads and estate entrances stop line blocking the path of cyclist
• The turn radius of the side roads is unsuitable for footpaths crossing in their position never mind where there is a cycle lane crossing
• Both of these increase conflict with motorists -- ie increase the chances of being hit or killed
• Level with the small "footpath" causing a greater chance of conflict with pedestrians
• Too small of a footpath section beside it also causing a greater chance of conflict with pedestrians
• There's at least two traffic light polls which are partly blocking the cycle path when they could be out of the way -- more important given the design's greater conflict with peds because of other flaws
• The lane ends and starts poorly -- worst than the junction design
• It goes up and down at driveways where it should be level
• Useless for cyclists who want to fully stay off the road in both directions --dumps people onto the road before the town so anybody using it will have to use the road or walk and does not go near the motorway where cars are likely to be going faster and thus a greater need for segregation -- then again its so flawed already it could add to danger, not safety
• Bins from houses each week are likely to push peds into cyclists and cyclists on to the footpath section
• No provision to allow cyclists to turn right at a few junctions -- other than bunny hoping out on to the road where motorists expect them to stay on the cycle path

SeanW wrote: »

In any case, with it being a marked track that was physically separated from motor traffic, I don't know what else you want, and why you complain about it being a "footpath." You would think that cyclists never cycled on ACTUAL footpaths to read some of the responses. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The point is, without the legal signs at every junction there is no legal requirement for cyclist to use the footpath. Thus cyclists are not breaking the law and you claiming such and using this footpath as an example is flawed.

It's little more than a footpath, about the width of an average footpath but with with some ramps added in.

SeanW wrote: »

False, and false. Only a sado masochistic motorist would travel on paralell roads when there's a perfectly good motorway beside them, if a motorist does this it's generally because...

The motorway and footpath parking point was one of many points.

SeanW wrote: »

Oh and BTW if cyclists were treated as milk cows like motorists are, and for example a lovely cycle track or cyclists bridge was built, but you had to pay a €3 toll to use it, ye would dodge it too. Don't even bother denying it.

Huge amount of flaws in your thinking here.

Where done right, both the building and the upkeep of cycling infrastructure should cost a tiny fraction of normal road building (never mind motorways), it returns a greater value, lasts longer, something like a bridge will likely double as a walking bridge, and there's multiple use for cyclists -- commuting, other utility, tourism, and exercise.

The bulk of cyclists own cars and pay motor tax etc. Among those, arguably those who commute to work pay a disproportional amount of motor tax given they leave their cars at home.

Besides the promotion of cycling is policy at local and national level, tolling a bridge isn't really in line with that. And what next are we to toll footpaths?

Dutch and Dain planners describe how they were "cheap" was the main reason they invested in cycling because -- they would have had to spend more on public transport otherwise -- cycling has a modal share of all trips of any distance in the Netherlands is 24% and 34% of trips all trips under 7.5km -- that's compared to about 5% and 2% for all public transport.

SeanW wrote: »

And your point about motorists parking on footpaths when there's a "good road" beside them is also false. I almost never see a motorist parked on a footpath unless the road is too narrow to accomodate 2 directions of traffic plus roadside parking. Or, when the road is wider, but is marked with multiple traffic lanes and/or bus lanes and has no space allowed for parking.

Why would someone mount a kerb to park on a footpath when there's no need to?

Why? Very good question, it happens all the time.

Motorists seem to have no problem fully or mostly blocking footpaths rather than just block a lane or part of a lane on a road. Little to no respect for footpath users or the law seems to be the only reason. With both footpath motorists and cyclists, saving a few seconds or a min is more important that the safety of others or the law.

I'm not sure if how you think it's ok to block a footpath rather than a road. And I even see a large amount of motorists parked on footpaths when there's a near by empty parking space or where the bus or normal lane has legally reverted to car parking at the time of parking.

Then there's a huge amount of parent / guardians who collect children from schools in urban areas who park all over the place and seem to have no problem endangering children and parents who are trying to walk or cycle to or from the school.

SeanW

The motorway and footpath parking point was one of many points.

The poster I was responding to prefaced both the origional points, "good" paralell motorway and "good" road.

This clearly suggested that motorists broke parking rules for the craic and as for the motorway ... I have no idea what his/her point was since toll dodging isn't illegal and isn't unethical either.

Cookie_Monster

SeanW wrote: »

This clearly suggested that motorists broke parking rules for the craic and as for the motorway ... I have no idea what his/her point was since toll dodging isn't illegal and isn't unethical either.

it's not but it's mostly pointless. for the sake of a couple of euro you're burning more fuel and taking more time and inevitably putting yourself outa pocket.

monument

SeanW wrote: »

The poster I was responding to prefaced both the origional points, "good" paralell motorway and "good" road.

This clearly suggested that motorists broke parking rules for the craic and as for the motorway ... I have no idea what his/her point was since toll dodging isn't illegal and isn't unethical either.

It does not matter why motorists break parking rules and block footpaths -- just like cycling on footpaths, parking on them is an illegal, often unsafe, and foolish thing to do. You seem to be giving out about cycling on footpaths but defending parking on footpaths???

The point on not using a motorway when it could be used -- to avoid a toll or whatever -- the point is that it is in many ways just like advoiding a lot of cycle tracks --- ie both are not illegal and not unethical either. The main difference is using a motorway is generally safer, while using a cycle track to Irish standards can often be less safe than the road.

dermo88

yet another politically correct heap of nonsense. I am perfectly capable of cycling safely where there is no traffic after 6 Pints and 2 whiskies. Fortunately, out here in the developing world, the last rookie police officer who DARED stop me got the face eaten off him by the local chief superintendent who I happen to drink with and I am on the same pool team as him. Whats up?

Rookie cop "Were you drinking"

Me "Your damn right I was"

Rookie cop "Can I see your ID"

Me "Sure, but do you want a drink or a transfer" (gets phone and calls Chief Super Rodwan.....smiling.....the same smile a shark gives when he sees a nice tasty mackerel)

Rookie cop "Did you see the arrows"

Me "Follow the arrows.....I did'nt see any Indians" (police officer laughs nervously) Phone ringing

(Ah Rodwan, Dermo here, small little problem on the way home with badge C186P. Hahaha.....yeah I know......why do you think I use a bicycle instead of a car. Besides, its only 3km on a quiet back road. Oh......he just out collecting bribes. Put him on.....sure)

Me "Officer.....phone call for you"

Cop on my phone (Yes sir, yes sir.....ok....yes sir)

Copper "Sorry Mr Dermo"

Me "No problem, have a good evening"

(*thinks.....bet the poor bugger would never suspect a pissed white guy on a bike knew his boss)

Its a bit like a liberal tropical version of the Ireland I used to know before I left. The Ireland where common sense prevailed, before lawyers, Health and Safety freaks, and jobsworths took over and screwed it up.

Penalty points.....

I'll wipe my bum with them

Cookie_Monster

dermo88 wrote: »

Me "Sure, but do you want a drink or a transfer" (gets phone and calls Chief Super Rodwan.....smiling.....the same smile a shark gives when he sees a nice tasty mackerel)

threatening a cop and using connections to get yourself off. all very mafia... :D;):p

invinciblePRSTV

dermo88 wrote: »

yet another politically correct heap of nonsense. I am perfectly capable of cycling safely where there is no traffic after 6 Pints and 2 whiskies. Fortunately, out here in the developing world, the last rookie police officer who DARED stop me got the face eaten off him by the local chief superintendent who I happen to drink with and I am on the same pool team as him. Whats up?

Rookie cop "Were you drinking"

Me "Your damn right I was"

Rookie cop "Can I see your ID"

Me "Sure, but do you want a drink or a transfer" (gets phone and calls Chief Super Rodwan.....smiling.....the same smile a shark gives when he sees a nice tasty mackerel)

Rookie cop "Did you see the arrows"

Me "Follow the arrows.....I did'nt see any Indians" (police officer laughs nervously) Phone ringing

(Ah Rodwan, Dermo here, small little problem on the way home with badge C186P. Hahaha.....yeah I know......why do you think I use a bicycle instead of a car. Besides, its only 3km on a quiet back road. Oh......he just out collecting bribes. Put him on.....sure)

Me "Officer.....phone call for you"

Cop on my phone (Yes sir, yes sir.....ok....yes sir)

Copper "Sorry Mr Dermo"

Me "No problem, have a good evening"

(*thinks.....bet the poor bugger would never suspect a pissed white guy on a bike knew his boss)

Its a bit like a liberal tropical version of the Ireland I used to know before I left. The Ireland where common sense prevailed, before lawyers, Health and Safety freaks, and jobsworths took over and screwed it up.

Penalty points.....

I'll wipe my bum with them

Sounds like a story out of FF controlled mid 20th century Ireland.

High time a tough line was taken with all persistant ROTR breakers, be they obnoxious cyclists, w@nker drivers or pedestrians.

Of course some Irish cyclists think their well within their rights to ignore the ROTR as they desire. A classic example is this thread I started elsewhere after nearly being knocked down by a cyclist who ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing which I was walking across. Queue a load of cyclists for the most part trying to justify their law-breaking, cribbing about car drivers etc. Basically blaming everyone but themselves for their behaviour.

In particular keep an eye out for the silly bint who says she won't abide by the ROTR when it's cold and wet!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68949271

dermo88

invinciblePRSTV

Sounds like a story out of FF controlled mid 20th century Ireland.

It is, and since I am on enough money over there, I love it. Less money than Ireland, but cost of living is lower so.....

And its worse than anything Fianna Fail have, but at least I know the barstewards.

High time a tough line was taken with all persistant ROTR breakers, be they obnoxious cyclists, w@nker drivers or pedestrians.

I was'nt obnoxious, but I could see where he was going. White buy = easy cash. So.....I decided to put the little Hitler in his place before he had a chance.

Of course some Irish cyclists think their well within their rights to ignore the ROTR as they desire. A classic example is this thread I started elsewhere after nearly being knocked down by a cyclist who ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing which I was walking across.Of course some Irish cyclists think their well within their rights to ignore the ROTR as they desire. A classic example is this thread I started elsewhere after nearly being knocked down by a cyclist who ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing which I was walking across.

(a) I exercise common sense. That means dismounting and walking when appropriate, taking ones time, and being polite. It also means using common sense, watching all surrounding traffic and paying attention.

Mind, if I am a bit tipsy, I walk her home if I don't feel capable, or safe of riding it. And I take my time. 6 Pints and 2 whiskies is absolute insanity by my own admission, although the feeling of getting home unscathed is ....

"Oh Christ, thank God I made it, am I sane.....never again".

I'd still chance it on 5, only on a quiet road however....never a main.

Kintarō Hattori

SeanW wrote: »

Indeed.

Indeed:

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Old+Cabra+Road,+Dublin&hl=en&ll=53.357467,-6.289179&spn=0.011052,0.027874&sll=53.373344,-6.588986&sspn=0.011099,0.027874&vpsrc=0&hnear=Old+Cabra+Rd,+Dublin&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.357605,-6.289377&panoid=hP9eOvhUPErrhTRdPtoFig&cbp=12,331.87,,0,0

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Drogheda+Street,+Balbriggan&hl=en&ll=53.665137,-6.273451&spn=0.019884,0.144196&sll=53.357608,-6.289372&sspn=0.011103,0.027874&vpsrc=6&hnear=Drogheda+St,+Balbriggan&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.665203,-6.273651&panoid=3DKthHKswjAGRdskDK6LRw&cbp=12,296.63,,0,10.87


Yes that second one is a cycle lane and it ends just as abruptly as it began.

monument

invinciblePRSTV wrote:

Of course some Irish cyclists think their well within their rights to ignore the ROTR as they desire. A classic example is this thread I started elsewhere after nearly being knocked down by a cyclist who ran a red light at a pedestrian crossing which I was walking across. Queue a load of cyclists for the most part trying to justify their law-breaking, cribbing about car drivers etc. Basically blaming everyone but themselves for their behaviour.

In particular keep an eye out for the silly bint who says she won't abide by the ROTR when it's cold and wet!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68949271

There's a good bit of mixed views there -- including cyclists agreeing with you. Are you really shocked that a few young college students don't care about breaking red lights when nobody is around?

The thread is another example of all groups of road users acting the same way -- defending their actions. Just like motorists defend speeding (saying speed limits too low etc) or in this thread defending parking on footpaths (you don't want to block a road, do you?) or peds breaking lights (they take too long to change etc).

Your posts in the thread are part of the examples of blind ranting from both sides -- followed by a mod warning, then by more rants and the thread being locked. Err... So much for following the rules?

invinciblePRSTV

monument wrote: »

Your posts in the thread are part of the examples of blind ranting from both sides -- followed by a mod warning, then by more rants and the thread being locked. Err... So much for following the rules?

Yeah obviously if you had read the OP of that thread - I was lucky not to be mowed over by a cyclist ignoring a Green man - then you'd see why I was exasperated with posters who casually disregard the ROTR. You can call it "blind ranting" if you like, I'd call it stating the obvious. but I just wanted insights into cyclists mentality, which I got.

What that and other threads on boards show is that a significant portion of Irish cyclists are every bit as selfish, deluded and dangerous as their car driving counterparts. Only a real threat of penalty points and fines will curb these bad cyclists habits and behaviours.

PS I love how you casually dismiss "some young college students" cyclists breaking the ROTR as somehow natural and to be expected. Would you hold a similiar dismissive attitude to young drivers having such a cavalier attitude to driving cars and acting the maggot in them? Because I certainly wouldn't.

Unsurprisingly when I clicked on your posting history I see that you have lots of posts in the cycling forum , No wonder you're trying to downplay the awful attitudes of some of your fellow cyclists.

ThisRegard

SeanW wrote: »

You accused me of "making a fool of myself" for saying, sarcastically, that the rules of the road don't apply to cyclists.

First bit is true, and still applies, I've no idea how you came to the conclusion above. My point was, and has been pointed out to you subsequently by others, that some of the points you posted in your list were false.

Kintarō Hattori

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

What that and other threads on boards show is that a significant portion of Irish cyclists are every bit as selfish, deluded and dangerous as their car driving counterparts. Only a real threat of penalty points and fines will curb these bad cyclists habits and behaviours.

Are you really surprised at this? There are lots of crazy motorists/cyclists/pedestrians. There are lots of crazy folk in all walks of life.

I cycle myself and yes I do see lots of crazy annoying cyclists around me. Personally I always stop at red lights, I frequently wave motorists on when they are trying to be accommodating to me, I never mount footpaths and I do sometimes, though not always use the cycle lanes.

The great thing is though, I'm not alone. There are lots of other great cyclists but as with motorists their names are tarnished by some who choose to flout the rules and be aggressive.

Let's be honest here, really. I have no idea what you're like as this is the first time I've seen you posting but you come across as very anti-cyclist. Not just against the poor cyclists but in general. Let's both realize that there are lots of bad cyclists/motorists but equally there are lots of great ones.

corktina

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Are you really surprised at this? There are lots of crazy motorists/cyclists/pedestrians. There are lots of crazy folk in all walks of life.

.

thats what he said....

Kintarō Hattori

corktina wrote: »

thats what he said....

He did and we're in agreement. However having read the thread he started in UCC he really does seem to dislike cyclists. At least that's the impression I got.

monument

I sure you read the whole thread, but just as a reminder: The start of my first post said: "For the record: I can't wait till on-the-spot fines are applied to cyclists."

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Yeah obviously if you had read the OP of that thread - I was lucky not to be mowed over by a cyclist ignoring a Green man - then you'd see why I was exasperated with posters who casually disregard the ROTR. You can call it "blind ranting" if you like, I'd call it stating the obvious. but I just wanted insights into cyclists mentality, which I got.

You got the views of a few cyclist and those views were very mixed -- raning from agreeing with you to having little or no regard for the rules of the road -- but I don't think anybody defended what had happened to you.

I don't agree with break lights one way or another, but breaking lights and nearly hitting somebody is hugely different than somebody breaking the lights when nobody is around.

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

What that and other threads on boards show is that a significant portion of Irish cyclists are every bit as selfish, deluded and dangerous as their car driving counterparts. Only a real threat of penalty points and fines will curb these bad cyclists habits and behaviours.

Pedestrians as a group are no better and possibly the worst of the lot. How are you going to apply penalty points to cyclists and pedestrians?

It's pie in the sky nonsense. It would never work.

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

PS I love how you casually dismiss "some young college students" cyclists breaking the ROTR as somehow natural and to be expected. Would you hold a similiar dismissive attitude to young drivers having such a cavalier attitude to driving cars and acting the maggot in them? Because I certainly wouldn't.

I'll ask again: Are you really shocked that a few young college students don't care about breaking red lights when nobody is around?

I'm not being casually or otherwise being dismissive. There's a large difference between expecting something and being dismissive. Yes, I do expect a lot of people [be they pedestrians, cyclists, or motorists] to defend law breaking and, yes, younger people genially have even more relaxed views on laws and other things. There's no point going around so shocked about such -- does that mean their actions are not a problem and they should be stopped? No it does not.

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Unsurprisingly when I clicked on your posting history I see that you have lots of posts in the cycling forum , No wonder you're trying to downplay the awful attitudes of some of your fellow cyclists.

In which part of which post do I try to "to downplay the awful attitudes of some of your fellow cyclists"?

You did not do a great job at stalking me anyway -- Did you miss the recent thread where I gave out to a cyclist for undertaking a motorist when he should not and ask what's the harm in giving peds a bit of respect? See my posts here and here.

Or the thread where I back the idea of on-the-spot-fines for cyclists? Or if you go back a little further you should spot even more threads where I give out about cyclists breaking lights and going the wrong way down streets etc.

Also, have you not being warned before about attacking the poster rather than the post?

dermo88

monument

The start of my first post said: "For the record: I can't wait till on-the-spot fines are applied to cyclists."

Time to hit the Johnny Walker at Christmas time. 10 miles to the gallon on Guinness.......teeheehee

And I can't wait for them to send the summons to KL. I can just see the look on his face when he sees the address and the identity card. The poor copper will go "oh shucks". As for the judge, I'll do a Tommy Suharto on him. I'll be more trouble than I am worth.

Fly out of Dublin Airport.....two weeks in Ireland three times a year. It won't be worth the hassle for them.

I'll burn it. In front of them. Just wait......

mowhawk

seamus wrote: »

However, the vast bulk of offences which attract penalty points are offences which can only be committed by mechanically-propelled vehicles.

Try running red lights. Someone somewhere must run courses on this as almost every cyclist to a man or woman has an expertise in it (they don't even slow down a lot of the time). And did someone just mention 'cyclopath'.

Capt'n Midnight

do the words driver and vehicle apply to cyclists under Irish law ?

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/accidents-gardai-and-penalties/penalty-points-fixed-charge-offences/index.html

Penalty points
Dangerous overtaking

Failure to stop a vehicle before stop sign/ stop line

Failure to obey traffic lights

Failure to obey requirements at junctions, e.g. not being in the correct lane when turning onto another road

Driving on a footpath except to access a premises or a place across the road

Illegal entry onto a one-way street


Fixed charge offences
Failure by driver to give appropriate signals by use of indicators or specified hand signals when intending to slow down, stop or change course

Entering a yellow box junction partly or wholly, unless the driver can clear the area

Driving a vehicle other than a light rail vehicle on a tram lane

monument

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

do the words driver and vehicle apply to cyclists under Irish law ?

Not always, and not relating to penalty points.

For reasons already outlined penalty points don't make sense for cyclists, but on-the-spot-fines do.

Capt'n Midnight

monument wrote: »

Not always, and not relating to penalty points.

For reasons already outlined penalty points don't make sense for cyclists, but on-the-spot-fines do.

there are fines for all the offences I've listed, but not sure if they can be on the spot

monument

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

there are fines for all the offences I've listed, but not sure if they can be on the spot

No on-the-spot fine can currently be applied to a cyclist -- cyclist currently can be only brought to court or just warned.

The department of transport could introduce on-the-spot fine for cyclists, and such is promised in the national cycle policy, but the department is dragging its heals -- see this thread here.