Fed up with Carlow IT students' behaviour.

shem676

As a resident in an area adjacent to Carlow IT, I am fed up with late night/ early morning (up to 4:30 am) student parties yahooing and roaring mad keeping people and their families awake. I am fed up with the damage and vandalism caused to my property, for which I have worked and paid for. I am fed up with the drunken loutish behaviour... 4 idiots playing rugby at 2:30 am!!!.... peeing into gardens, ...throwing empty bottles and cans into gardens... streaking in the middle of the day in front of young children... throwing eggs at houses... damaging cars.. etc. etc.

I have heard the excuse 'we're students.. that's what we do!'... Is this what they do when they go home to their mammy's and daddy's at the weekends in their own home towns??
I understand the student lifestyle and the first freedom away from home... but displaying some respect for residents and their families would not go amiss.

How do I know the perpetrators are students?? Because we don't experience this behaviour out of term!! I also realize that the VAST majority of students attending Carlow IT are decent people.... but it's the total a***holes that cannot handle alcohol that give you a bad name.

I understand that students like to party... but PLEASE do so responsibly and respectfully..... but then again I suppose alcohol and over-active hormones don't mix very well!!

PS there is a by-law in this town that bans the consumption of alcohol in public places.... so the Gardaí have the power to seize the drinks from you!

menta125

I am sorry to hear that you're property has been vandalised, and your sleep disturbed on a consistent basis.

As a student who goes out very rarely, I can understand how annoying the late night partying can be, as I am awoken every night by students screaming outside my house.

I have often wondered why the residents near ITC have not been more proactive in relation to students' drinking/vandalism. The best thing to do is get a collection of residents together, and lobby the college to crackdown on the promotion of clubs/drinking promos within the corridors of ITC. Aside from this, you need to get in contact with the Students Union, and put them under some pressure to run seminars/information days, where the Gardai explain the most common behaviour that will get students a criminal conviction. The Students Union are the body which runs entertainment promos; come down on them hard and they will have to start running awareness days on a regular basis.

You're not going to alleviate the problem unless residents start taking photos and videos of vandalism, presenting them to the college, and even the local newspaper. The college doesn't want bad press, so if they won't do anything about it, you have to get tough with them.

Let me just say that I think most ITC students are capable of handling their drink too, and they don't go about smashing peoples' property to bits, but it's about time the Students Union started to be a little more objective. They seem to be tied at the hip to clubs in the town, and it's a disgrace.

shem676

"They seem to be tied at the hip to clubs in the town"..... I think the correct term is grafted!! Ask Class reps and SU leaders about the freebies they get from the clubs and pubs in town!!

Takes dedication to go out and play rugby at 2.30 in the morning.

menta125

shem676 wrote: »

"They seem to be tied at the hip to clubs in the town"..... I think the correct term is grafted!! Ask Class reps and SU leaders about the freebies they get from the clubs and pubs in town!!

Then what will you do about it? The information is out there, use it.

I would like to get involved, because I don't think it's an appropriate relationship; it gives clubs too much influence in the college, but anyone who calls them out, won't exactly be the flavour of the month.

zeds alive

shem676 wrote: »

PS there is a by-law in this town that bans the consumption of alcohol in public places.... so the Gardaí have the power to seize the drinks from you!

PS there is also a law that says putting traffic cones outside your house causing an obstruction(stopping people parking) is illegal , please tell your neighbours that.

marlie2005

Seriously Zed's Alive, did it ever accure to you or others that some cone's may be put there for a reason.. My neighbour had them outside her house the other day because the doctor was coming to see her seriously ill husband , to keep a space for him.
Low and behold a few minutes later I spotted a student removing them, and pretending to walk into a house, hiding for a few minutes and then when she taught nobody was looking preceded towards the college for her days lectures.
Can there not be a little taught for the residents of these estates, It really is not as if you all are just going to be a few minutes or so, it's your free parking for the day. Alot of these residents are elderly and so what if a few put a cone's outside theirs houses, student parking has taking over estate's surrounding the college.
A little bit of respect would go a long way.

MonTheBiffy

Call the police? You'll get sweet feck all done from behind your keyboard. Get on to the owners of the houses these students are renting if its that big an issue

zeds alive

I'm not the one breaking the law by parking on a public road, the person putting the cones on the road is breaking the law by causing an obstruction , if the cones damage my car the person who put them the is responsible for damages. what's behind the boundary walls of the house is private property , the road outside is public property , if I'm driving a car that fully insured and taxed , not parking on the pavement , not obstructing a gate , not causing an obstruction on the road , not parking on single or double yellow lines , I'm legally entitled to park my car on any public road.
I always move the traffic cones if they block me from parking , I even see people with official garda cones outside their house (also illegal) .


Prohibition of obstruction of traffic.

98.—(1) A person shall not do any act (whether of commission or omission) which causes or is likely to cause traffic through any public place to be obstructed.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

(3) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that there was lawful authority for the act complained of or that it was due to unavoidable accident.

marlie2005 wrote: »

Seriously Zed's Alive, did it ever accure to you or others that some cone's may be put there for a reason.. My neighbour had them outside her house the other day because the doctor was coming to see her seriously ill husband , to keep a space for him.
Low and behold a few minutes later I spotted a student removing them, and pretending to walk into a house, hiding for a few minutes and then when she taught nobody was looking preceded towards the college for her days lectures.
Can there not be a little taught for the residents of these estates, It really is not as if you all are just going to be a few minutes or so, it's your free parking for the day. Alot of these residents are elderly and so what if a few put a cone's outside theirs houses, student parking has taking over estate's surrounding the college.
A little bit of respect would go a long way.

Contra Proferentem

Not solid ground Zed, that argument was tried during that whole Shell to Sea/Rossport Gas Pipeline eco-warrior saga and it concluded that an obstruction doesn't just have to physically blocking something.

obstruct
1. to block (a road, passageway, etc.) with an obstacle
2. to make (progress or activity) difficult
3. to impede or block a clear view of

Parking Regulations 1997 (google S.I. 182/97).

Article 36 (2) (g) prohibits parking “in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, save with the consent of the occupier of such premises”.

There's also local bye-laws to be considered, and the fact is that the Gardai often provide those cones to residents in high traffic areas.

marlie2005

It is a public road but many of the communal areas are maintained by the residents. Thats where you park by the way. Do you or your friends contribute to the maintenance of the public areas in these estates. I doubt it very much.
You must have great fun running around town removing cones that have been left out illegally.
I counted in one estate and out of nearly 100 houses 7 house had cones outside. it is not as if the residents are preventing you all from parking in the estate. It's not their fault you maybe arriving late.
What I am trying to point out is to have a little consideration for others and you can quote any law in any book but a little respect would go a long way.
Oh and I have yet to see a cone damage a moving car.

zeds alive

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

Article 36 (2) (g) prohibits parking “in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, save with the consent of the occupier of such premises”.

zeds alive wrote: »

if I'm driving a car that fully insured and taxed , not parking on the pavement , not obstructing a gate , not causing an obstruction on the road , not parking on single or double yellow lines , I'm legally entitled to park my car on any public road.

This isn't shell to sea , cars aren't being used as a form of protest , this is a housing estate.

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

There's also local bye-laws to be considered

Nothing in here that says what I'm doing is illegal.

S.I. No. 177/1986 — County of Carlow Traffic and Parking Bye-Laws, 1986

marlie2005 wrote: »

Do you or your friends contribute to the maintenance of the public areas in these estates.

Yes I do , I live in Carlow and my tax money is used to maintain these estates and my road tax is used to maintain the roads in these estates

I don't arrive late , I pay for parking in the college and just can't get any.

Contra Proferentem

Sorry, I didn't see the part in the post in which you mentioned you weren't blocking any gateways. I would assume then that as long as there is no restriction on the length of time you can part (outlined by statute or delegated legislation) and assuming your vehicle isn't causing an obstruction to things such as bin lorries then you are within your rights.

Just because something is lawful, doesn't mean that it's acceptable however. Often these things can be busy bodies over reacting, but other times the other side may have a valid point. Residents may also (unlawfully) "take the law into their own hands", but proving who done what is another story entirely.

shem676

MonTheBiffy wrote: »

Call the police? You'll get sweet feck all done from behind your keyboard. Get on to the owners of the houses these students are renting if its that big an issue

The cops have no resources and by the time they respond...it's too late. Most of the problems are caused by friends visiting the students houses or wannabe party gate-crashers moving off to their own accommodation. All I ask is for respect and consideration for people...so that they can get a night's sleep to go to work and earn money to pay taxes to fund students' courses in the IT.

shem676

menta125 wrote: »

Then what will you do about it? The information is out there, use it.

I would like to get involved, because I don't think it's an appropriate relationship; it gives clubs too much influence in the college, but anyone who calls them out, won't exactly be the flavour of the month.

I am not a student in the IT....these people are the students' elected representatives...given the exposure of corruption in public life in this country over the last number of years...maybe the 'student electorate' should be asking the questions of their reps about the free drinks, meals, campaign donations etc.

No one should be aloud put cones on a public road unless its the county council or Garda., I'd move them myself.

HanyuPinyin

Mak_United wrote: »

Takes dedication to go out and play rugby at 2.30 in the morning.

Yes. Must have had an assessment in their PR and Rugby course that day.

kob29

Dont bother with the SU, they'll only take issues seriously when grant aid for drinking is being cut by the govt.

Contact the college authorities directly and threaten to bring this into the public domain and put a negative image out there of the college.

gorilla_ie

contact the students union... its the first point of contact with the students... if you contact the college directly then they will relay it to student services which in turn pass it on to the students union. its unacceptable for that kind of behaviour and you should contact the gardai. They do come into the college to give the first years a talk on anti-social behaviour around the town and they do have a zero tolerance towards it... step back from the keyboard and get out and make the formal conplaints that are needed for action to be taken. Take video footage and hand it over to the college and the gardai and keep a log of incidents.

Regarding the SU only taking issues of grant aid seriously is a load of bull!!!!!

HanyuPinyin

gorilla_ie wrote: »

Regarding the SU only taking issues of grant aid seriously is a load of bull!!!!!

Oh really?!! Is the next big thing on their agenda not a protest march cause of such very reasons? Shocking!

gorilla_ie

how do you think people afford rent and food ???? your an awful gob****e to think that comes to students free.. if you are financially secure then fair play but these are challenging times for everyone and if the grant is cut then alot of people would not have access to third level education.

I'm not wasting any more time on your negative and pointless posts.

HanyuPinyin

gorilla_ie wrote: »

how do you think people afford rent and food ????

Savings and loans.

gorilla_ie

HanyuPinyin

ShayK1

Stay on topic please and thank you.

I'm already close to locking this thread as I don't think it belongs on boards.ie so I'm really just waiting for an excuse to get rid of it.

royston_vasey

PM me as I am currently pursuing a course of direct action in relation to this issue.

Don't waste your time contacting IT Carlow or students union as they have absolutely no interest in resolving this and I speak from personal experience on this issue.

Contra Proferentem

If residents aren't satisfied with what is occurring then they must lobby the local authority (Carlow County Council) to have double yellow lines placed on the areas where the parked vehicles are causing a problem.

That's the simplest, lawful option open to residents. A college cannot be held responsible for where students park, and certainly not when they're lawfully parked.

royston_vasey

When you do get the double yellow lines painted then make sure that the traffic wardens is aware of it and ask that they patrols the area - although it is really at his discretion as they are not given any transport and have to use their own!

zeds alive

The area in question was lined last year at the request of residents , there is double yellow lines running 40ft either side of all bends in the estate and a single yellow line around the green areas of the estate , but still people are claiming public property as private with traffic cones , if that's the case it should be possible for me to leave my own traffic cones to reserve a space for myself?

Contra Proferentem

zeds alive wrote: »

The area in question was lined last year at the request of residents , there is double yellow lines running 40ft either side of all bends in the estate and a single yellow line around the green areas of the estate , but still people are claiming public property as private with traffic cones , if that's the case it should be possible for me to leave my own traffic cones to reserve a space for myself?

It comes down to the original conveyance of the estate in question. Sometimes it is possible that the parcel of land purchased by an individual included space at the front of the house.

It's far from conclusive although the general rule is that it's alright to park where you're not causing an obstruction (like on a bend). The issue comes up again and again over in Legal Discussion and it's something people are confronted with daily in parts of Dublin as parking space is at a premium.

menta125

shem676 wrote: »

I am not a student in the IT....these people are the students' elected representatives...given the exposure of corruption in public life in this country over the last number of years...maybe the 'student electorate' should be asking the questions of their reps about the free drinks, meals, campaign donations etc.

Let me be completely frank with you for a minute. If it was me and I was living in Carlow, I wouldn't be relying on students to do the footwork for me on this. SUs come and go, as do students who actually take into consideration the locals needs. If you want permanent change you have to go and lobby the college.

However if I did have to deal with it year after year, then you can guarantee I would have sorted this problem out a long time ago. You can't say the residents aren't blameless in this either. Clearly this has been going on for awhile and nobody has bothered to get themselves organised.

A lot could be solved with consistent communication. I'm sure you have neighbourhood watches in the main college/residential areas. Band together. You'll have a better chance of being heard then.

P.S.: I have never heard of any SU member getting "campaign donations". Not even student gossip supports that. I would delete that if I were you.

shem676

menta125 wrote: »

P.S.: I have never heard of any SU member getting "campaign donations". Not even student gossip supports that. I would delete that if I were you.

What I'm relying on students to do is to behave in a socially responsible manner...is that too much foot-work to ask for?? Neighbourhood watch...Students services etc. etc.. have been and are involved however this transient 'culture' is passed on from year to year... how do you reason with drunken yobs at 3 & 4 AM?? I would be fearful for my personal safety and security of my property if I tried to confront them. The gardaí are over-stretched and the hoo-ha has moved on by the time they arrive.

If you've never heard of 'campaign donations' etc.. it doesn't that it didn't/doesn't happen...I've seen student leaders being 'treated' in return for support.

menta125

shem676 wrote: »

What I'm relying on students to do is to behave in a socially responsible manner...is that too much foot-work to ask for?? Neighbourhood watch...Students services etc. etc.. have been and are involved however this transient 'culture' is passed on from year to year... how do you reason with drunken yobs at 3 & 4 AM?? I would be fearful for my personal safety and security of my property if I tried to confront them. The gardaí are over-stretched and the hoo-ha has moved on by the time they arrive.

If you've never heard of 'campaign donations' etc.. it doesn't that it didn't/doesn't happen...I've seen student leaders being 'treated' in return for support.

Look if neighbourhood watch and student services haven't come to some sort of conclusion on the matter by now, the current model isn't working. What have you personally, or other residents done about the matter? Literally, I would love to see details of a meeting on the matter, or even correspondences between residents and the council.

Have you contacted the Students Union yet? No, probably not.

No ones asking you to go out and start confronting people who are drunk. It's the Gardai's job to respond immediately, it's not like you're asking them to go to the moon and back. Their job entails keeping the peace, and might I add, ensuring the college is aware the gardai are getting reports of residential disturbances in college/residential areas.

I'm giving you plenty of scope and information here to deal with the problem, but you've yet to show me you've actually actively tried to get going on the issue.

Drinking culture in Ireland is a whole other issue and completely off topic....

To be honest, I can't help you anymore than I have. No time to even meet and discuss the matter with you in person. The Students Union are there to meet. Call them, ask for a meeting between you and the residents. Tell them what you want, and mean business. Good luck.

royston_vasey

@menta125

There have been discussions between Students Union, IT, gardai and residents association as well as pressure put on councillors. End result is that students union don't care and neither do the IT, residents associations failed to act as a collective for various reasons, councillors don't give a toss unless it affects their area or elections are on the horizon.

In short trying to get an inclusive process going has been tried and failed due to the usual issues of self interest, trust disposition and nepotism.

BrainyWife

The same happened with my two friends Danny and Joan. They actually got threats from a particular student and lived in fear. They rang the guards over and over again but up to no avail. Its really sad. I am not moving back there never!:mad: