Do we ignore animal cruelty to suit us?

Zulu

Cú Giobach wrote: »

The proof is all around you. You really must be far far removed from reality and the natural world if you need proof of this.

Still no proof.

Cú Giobach

Seachmall wrote: »

But the point is the changes made in these areas may have resulted in trees not being able to grow there.

You overestimate our impact and underestimate the power of nature.

Zulu wrote: »

Still no proof.

It's in front of you.

Good bye all.

--Kaiser--

Cú Giobach wrote: »

You overestimate our impact and underestimate the power of nature.

It's in front of you.

Good bye all.

Goodbye cruel world

Tipp Man

Cú Giobach wrote: »

The proof is all around you. You really must be far far removed from reality and the natural world if you need proof of this.

Very few areas that are left set aside or unused actually grow trees.

Most grow grass, weeds, bushes etc or if the land is poorer and wetter then sally's may take over. In fact most grow bloody buachalans which are an absolute scourge. This is witnessed in every NAMA field around the country which was earmarked for development and is now left unused. An unkept/unused field is generally not a pretty sight

You are talking about litteraly hunderds of years before trees would take over the majority of the Irish landscape in any great number.

Seachmall

Cú Giobach wrote: »

You overestimate our impact and underestimate the power of nature.

And you still have no proof.

You have fingers with which you point at things and declare them as evidence but no actual evidence.

Cú Giobach

Tipp Man wrote: »

Very few areas that are left set aside or unused actually grow trees.

Most grow grass, weeds, bushes etc or if the land is poorer and wetter then sally's may take over. In fact most grow bloody buachalans which are an absolute scourge. This is witnessed in every NAMA field around the country which was earmarked for development and is now left unused. An unkept/unused field is generally not a pretty sight

That is only the first stage if left they would look like the abandoned mills from earlier times, once the cracks appear it doesn't take too long for our works to be subsumed, and it depends on your idea of pretty.

You are talking about litteraly hunderds of years before trees would take over the majority of the Irish landscape in any great number.

Yea so? The point is that they will, not that they will quickly, things like that don't work to human time-scales.

Nice to see someone finally agreeing with me about trees eventually taking over the majority of the countryside. But where is your proof for that statement.

ScumLord

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Nice to see someone finally agreeing with me about trees eventually taking over the majority of the countryside. But where is your proof for that statement.

But it would still be a huge shock to local wildlife, their life cycles of a decade or less wouldn't be able to survive a massive environmental change like that. It would likely affect our biological diversity which isn't all that diverse as it is. Scrub ground could be next to impossible for anything larger than a mouse to move through. That was my point all a long, I don't think I ever dined you where right in saying it would eventually turn to forest

Cú Giobach

ScumLord wrote: »

But it would still be a huge shock to local wildlife, their life cycles of a decade or less wouldn't be able to survive a massive environmental change like that. It would likely affect our biological diversity which isn't all that diverse as it is. Scrub ground could be next to impossible for anything larger than a mouse to move through. That was my point all a long, I don't think I ever dined you where right in saying it would eventually turn to forest

Come on now, the only shock to the wildlife would be more choices where to live and hunt in, they will still have their habitat from before the change.
I couldn't see a fox jumping at the chance to move into a ghost estate and leaving its den in the hedgerow next door.

ScumLord

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Come on now, the only shock to the wildlife would be more choices where to live and hunt in, they will still have their habitat from before the change.

They won't have anywhere to hunt, scrub and grasslands won't suit their hunting. Scrub is next to impossible to move through for any animal lager than a mouse.

Cú Giobach

ScumLord wrote: »

They won't have anywhere to hunt, scrub and grasslands won't suit their hunting.

Come on now where has your logic gone? Wild grasslands bounded by areas of forest is perfect for wildlife. We might have a few less rabbits in the long run though.

Scrub is next to impossible to move through for any animal lager than a mouse.

No it's not

Cú Giobach

By the way folks I'm having a good laugh here at the folks who were arguing with me about forests taking over and demanding proof, who then thanked the poster who also said forests will take over.
You are funny people.

steddyeddy

Having no regard to the pointless destruction of species is lunacy because it can have a massive impact on our species. Our position on earth isnt as stable as people think.

We dont know what knock on effects we will have if we arent more respectful of certain species.

smash

I'm starving.

Birdnuts

steddyeddy wrote: »

Having no regard to the pointless destruction of species is lunacy because it can have a massive impact on our species. Our position on earth isnt as stable as people think.

We dont know what knock on effects we will have if we arent more respectful of certain species.

Sadly the level of ignorance among the general public on these issues means this tide of destruction will continue to destroy species and ecosystems across the planet:(

steddyeddy

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Come on now where has your logic gone? Wild grasslands bounded by areas of forest is perfect for wildlife. We might have a few less rabbits in the long run though.

No it's not

Cu giobach some species of animal are incredible adapted to a particular habitat. Wipe out their habitat and you could endanger them. If you wipe out a carnivore say the herbivores increase in numbers, as a result vegetation will decrease and as a result insects which feed on the plants will decrease in numbers and thats were things will seriously start to effect us.

We have seriously been lax in regard to the impact of man on other animals and ultimately ourselves. Some people think were in a man made mass extinction and people need to be educated about this. Last month some toff with a gun shot a lion becuase he wanted to. That attitude to nature has to change.

steddyeddy

Birdnuts wrote: »

Sadly the level of ignorance among the general public on these issues means this tide of destruction will continue to destroy species and ecosystems across the planet:(

Indeed Birdnuts. Loss of ecosystems can have an effect of the planets climate, natural disasters could increase and the global economy could be destroyed.

Seachmall

Cú Giobach wrote: »

By the way folks I'm having a good laugh here at the folks who were arguing with me about forests taking over and demanding proof, who then thanked the poster who also said forests will take over.
You are funny people.

I find it somewhat frustrating that after 5 or 6 pages, with just as many posters, trying to explain the issues to you you've still either failed to grasp them or avoided them entirely.

And you're happy with that, because you can't see it.

Birdnuts

steddyeddy wrote: »

Indeed Birdnuts. Loss of ecosystems can have an effect of the planets climate, natural disasters could increase and the global economy could be destroyed.

Indeed - hundreds of millions of people around the world depend on intact rainforests, mangroves, delta's etc. for their livelyhoods.

ScumLord

Cú Giobach wrote: »

By the way folks I'm having a good laugh here at the folks who were arguing with me about forests taking over and demanding proof, who then thanked the poster who also said forests will take over.
You are funny people.

It seems likely but there's no guarantee it would revert to forest. You've been talking about managed forests from what I can tell. If grasslands get out of control they may well chock out the possibility of trees getting a foot in, or at the very least stunt their growth as they'll have to wait for the tree canopy to block out the light on grass before their own seeds have the right conditions.

It's also quite possible the cat population would explode wiping out the critters that the plants need to reproduce. All of this has been shown to b true in other places and Ireland is at a further disadvantage as it's likely it won't get an influx of animals to replace the ones that can't cope with the changes as you would on the continent.

I could go on all day on the possibility's of what might happen whereas you seem absolutely certain only one thing can happen.

steddyeddy

ScumLord wrote: »

It seems likely but there's no guarantee it would revert to forest. You've been talking about managed forests from what I can tell. If grasslands get out of control they may well chock out the possibility of trees getting a foot in, or at the very least stunt their growth as they'll have to wait for the tree canopy to block out the light on grass before their own seeds have the right conditions.

It's also quite possible the cat population would explode wiping out the critters that the plants need to reproduce. All of this has been shown to b true in other places and Ireland is at a further disadvantage as it's likely it won't get an influx of animals to replace the ones that can't cope with the changes as you would on the continent.

I could go on all day on the possibility's of what might happen whereas you seem absolutely certain only one thing can happen.

The level of precipitation would likely determine wheter grass outcompetes plants or vice versa.

steddyeddy

+ raise the worlds temperature by a few degrees and a lot of nationalities will have to wear scuba diving gear!

Zulu

Seachmall wrote: »

I find it somewhat frustrating that after 5 or 6 pages, with just as many posters, trying to explain the issues to you you've still either failed to grasp them or avoided them entirely.

Don't forget making assertions, then denying ever making the assertion, then declaring "scientific fact" without providing proof.

And you're happy with that, because you can't see it.

Ignorance is bliss.

Tipp Man

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Come on now where has your logic gone? Wild grasslands bounded by areas of forest is perfect for wildlife. We might have a few less rabbits in the long run though.

No it's not

I'm just wondering exactly what IRISH wild animals are suited to living in wild grasslands?? Or are you talking about letting the cows run wild??

Just because the environment would change and you may think it is more friendly to wildlife doesn't necessarily mean that it is ACTUALLY better for Irish wildlife.

As an example if the countryside was left to go wild (to grow forests!) then we would loose nearly all our hedges which currently support a huge range of animals, birds and insects. In the last 10-15 years in Ireland we have literally planted thousands upon thousands of miles of hedges. If forests took over then these hedges would disappear and where exactly would our hedge dwelling birds build their nests??

redzerologhlen

smash wrote: »

I'm starving.

Steak sounds nice;)

Tipp Man

smash wrote: »

I'm starving.

you need a good irish fillet or striploin to sort you out - bit of veg - bit of mash - sorted

ScumLord

Tipp Man wrote: »

As an example if the countryside was left to go wild (to grow forests!) then we would loose nearly all our hedges which currently support a huge range of animals, birds and insects.

Taking that to it's extreme it could go on to affect other countries due to the amount of migratory birds that come to Ireland to nest. They could either get wiped out or have a bumper year and go on to devastate the countries they migrate too.

steddyeddy

Tipp Man wrote: »

I'm just wondering exactly what IRISH wild animals are suited to living in wild grasslands?? Or are you talking about letting the cows run wild??

Just because the environment would change and you may think it is more friendly to wildlife doesn't necessarily mean that it is ACTUALLY better for Irish wildlife.

As an example if the countryside was left to go wild (to grow forests!) then we would loose nearly all our hedges which currently support a huge range of animals, birds and insects. In the last 10-15 years in Ireland we have literally planted thousands upon thousands of miles of hedges. If forests took over then these hedges would disappear and where exactly would our hedge dwelling birds build their nests??

Ireland really needs to increase its forested land.

Birdnuts

ScumLord wrote: »

or have a bumper year and go on to devastate the countries they migrate too.

- most migratory birds in this country feed on insects, something I'm sure African farmers appreciate when they arrive to spend the winter.

Tipp Man

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ireland really needs to increase its forested land.

I never said we didn't - but we are increasing it rapidly and continually

My point is relating to letting the country run wild as some posters seem to indicate.

steddyeddy

Tipp Man wrote: »

I never said we didn't - but we are increasing it rapidly and continually

My point is relating to letting the country run wild as some posters seem to indicate.

Sorry Tipp man I wasnt argueing with you I was just enlarging on your point well made!