Lions 2013 players impressing at RWC

conor1979 · 10-10-2011 8:03pm

yupyup7up wrote: »

The Lions tour is nearly 2 years off, i think theres plenty of time for improvement. Earls has done very well on the wing. Where has his defence been suspect on the wing? He may not be the best defensively at centre but he does very well on the wing.
Heaslip will come good again too. Players form goes up and down, and writing them off 2 years before a test series is insane.

OP asked about picking based on RWC form. And yes, his defense is suspect on the wing.

wixfjord · 10-10-2011 9:01pm

Think we're all forgetting about Richardt Strauss lads.
He was immense during the WC

totallegend · 10-10-2011 9:12pm

wixfjord wrote: »

Think we're all forgetting about Richardt Strauss lads.
He was immense during the WC

If Strauss can replicate his Leinster form from last season, he'll be a definite Irish international beginning in the 2013 Six Nations; will he be able to stake a claim for a Lions jersey in a relatively short time? There is a lack of really top-class hookers at the moment, Hartley doesn't seem to be stepping up to the mark, Huw Bennett is a bit off the pace and the others are shoving on a bit. Picked tomorrow, the hookers would be Ford, Best and and AN Other, Strauss could easily be that Other.

mossyc123 · 10-10-2011 9:19pm

It's 19 Months away...so why isn't O'Driscoll being considered here?!

He will be 34 and 4 Months by the time it kicks off.

No reason to believe he won't still be performing at the top level till then or is there?

AFAIK he is still on an International IRFU contract until Summer 2013... so he will be playing the next 2 6 Nations campaigns anyway.

Will there be 2 better Number 13's around by then?

remwhite · 10-10-2011 9:25pm

yupyup7up wrote: »

The Lions tour is nearly 2 years off, i think theres plenty of time for improvement. Earls has done very well on the wing. Where has his defence been suspect on the wing? He may not be the best defensively at centre but he does very well on the wing.
Heaslip will come good again too. Players form goes up and down, and writing them off 2 years before a test series is insane.

I have never been impressed by Earls. He is blessed with everything it takes to be a world class rugby player bar the top two inches. Just runs into contact or shovels it on. Great try scoring record for Ireland but they've pretty much all been from 5 to 15 meters and a straight foot race.

He may have traveled with the last Lions tour but he was khak!

Trimble is a better player if you ask me. Also, FitzGerald is a good way off the boil these days but on form is a vastly better player than Earls.

Mr.SlumDuck · 10-10-2011 9:33pm

Surely O Driscoll is targeting to retire after he wins a Lions Series. Seems to have been on his mind considering the timing of his contract etc.

Hype710 · 10-10-2011 10:27pm

Mr.SlumDuck wrote: »

Surely O Driscoll is targeting to retire after he wins a Lions Series. Seems to have been on his mind considering the timing of his contract etc.

Exactly, he's stated many times that it's a huge goal of his and I wouldn't be surprised if he seriously cut down on his workload over the next 18 months in order to make it. Tuilagi and Roberts will definitely be there, BOD and Davies probably following them. What an inspiration for the side he could be.

Hype710 · 10-10-2011 10:32pm

Something like:

Foden
Bowe
Tuilagi
Roberts
North
Priestland
Philips

Healy
Hartley
Jones
Lawes
O'Connell
Ferris (Lydiate if injured)
Warburton (C)
O' Brien

Strauss
Cole
Gray
Haskell
Youngs
Sexton
Kearney

handsomecake · 10-10-2011 10:50pm

yupyup7up wrote: »

Ireland:

Murray

your easily impressed

CatFromHue · 10-10-2011 10:57pm

I'm surprised Hartley is being mentioned so much. Best had a far better World Cup.

The same with Tuilagi, Davies from Wales was much more effective.

thomond2006 · 10-10-2011 11:03pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm surprised Hartley is being mentioned so much. Best had a far better World Cup.

The same with Tuilagi, Davies from Wales was much more effective.

Hartley was 2nd choice for England wasn't he? Thompson started against France, don't know about the other games.

CatFromHue · 10-10-2011 11:11pm

Thompson started against Scotland, Romania, and Argentina. Hartley is/was very much second choice.

PhatPiggins · 10-10-2011 11:15pm

totallegend wrote: »

If Strauss can replicate his Leinster form from last season, he'll be a definite Irish international beginning in the 2013 Six Nations; will he be able to stake a claim for a Lions jersey in a relatively short time? There is a lack of really top-class hookers at the moment, Hartley doesn't seem to be stepping up to the mark, Huw Bennett is a bit off the pace and the others are shoving on a bit. Picked tomorrow, the hookers would be Ford, Best and and AN Other, Strauss could easily be that Other.

Mathew Rees will retake the Welsh 2 jersey as soon as he's fit. I know he'll be 33 but he has relatively low milage on the clock. Will easily be in the mix for 2013.

Strauss, barring injuries, won't be in the majority Irish 22's in 2012. He might be in the mix in 2013. Will that be enough time to force he's way in ahead of the starting hookers from Wales and England?

Podge_irl · 10-10-2011 11:20pm

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Strauss, barring injuries, won't be in the majority Irish 22's in 2012. He might be in the mix in 2013. Will that be enough time to force he's way in ahead of the starting hookers from Wales and England?

As things stand Strauss will definitely be involved as soon as he's available, so that's Nov '12. Only leaves the '13 6N for him to make an impact though really - may not be enough.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 10-10-2011 11:39pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Yes I heard that from Frankie as well. Who would have thought an agent would try to big up one of his clients? What next, Frankie selecting one as m.o.t.m.?

What did Sheahan say about him? But, he isn't his agent anyway.

I can't remember if I read it on twitter or on one of the players blogs but, whenever any gym sessions were mentioned, Wally's name was invariably on top. Kidney's comments about his fitness when he was ruled out were also quite telling.

WeeBushy · 10-10-2011 11:49pm

In terms of time I think Strauss has time. He's had two huge seasons at Leinster, hopefully another one, and then a full season of potential international rugby. A lot of decisions are based on that year's form anyway.

This is on the basis that he continues on his upward course, that is.

PhatPiggins · 11-10-2011 1:19am

Podge_irl wrote: »

As things stand Strauss will definitely be involved as soon as he's available, so that's Nov '12. Only leaves the '13 6N for him to make an impact though really - may not be enough.

Is he not qualified till then? I thought it was sooner for some reason. He has no chance then I'd say. He won't walk into the squad ahead of Cronin intially and will struggle to start 2 games in the 2013 6N's.

castie · 11-10-2011 6:22am

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Is he not qualified till then? I thought it was sooner for some reason. He has no chance then I'd say. He won't walk into the squad ahead of Cronin intially and will struggle to start 2 games in the 2013 6N's.

If Cronin isnt getting alot of game time at Leinster he could struggle to get a place too.

If Fla sorts out his calf issues he would be 1/2 with Best.
If not whoever is getting the game time at Munster will probably be picked ahead of Cronin unless he somehow gets ahead of Strauss.

11-10-2011 6:59am

castie wrote: »

If Cronin isnt getting alot of game time at Leinster he could struggle to get a place too.

If Fla sorts out his calf issues he would be 1/2 with Best.
If not whoever is getting the game time at Munster will probably be picked ahead of Cronin unless he somehow gets ahead of Strauss.

At the moment, that's looking like one of the biggest IFs we've ever had. Flannery's glass calf is a nightmare

castie · 11-10-2011 7:02am

Deleted User wrote: »

At the moment, that's looking like one of the biggest IFs we've ever had. Flannery's glass calf is a nightmare

Was almost the same with POC with his groin so Im keeping the faith

11-10-2011 7:09am

castie wrote: »

Was almost the same with POC with his groin so Im keeping the faith

I don't think so, how many games has he managed to finish in the last two years? I'd love him back, but it seems that there's an imbalance or weakness somewhere in them tree trunks, and he's either going to have to take a long time out to fix it, or be wary that if it goes again, it might be the end.

totallegend · 11-10-2011 7:19am

castie wrote: »

If Cronin isnt getting alot of game time at Leinster he could struggle to get a place too.

If Fla sorts out his calf issues he would be 1/2 with Best.
If not whoever is getting the game time at Munster will probably be picked ahead of Cronin unless he somehow gets ahead of Strauss.

Realistically, Flannery is 33 and has not played 80 minutes of rugby in I don't know how long; Best has just finished the world cup as Ireland's stand-out performer. There is no longer any question of who the first choice is.

castie · 11-10-2011 7:21am

totallegend wrote: »

Realistically, Flannery is 33 and has not played 80 minutes of rugby in I don't know how long; Best has just finished the world cup as Ireland's stand-out performer. There is no longer any question of who the first choice is.

Im not saying there is right now.
But if he did get back playing for Munster and had some good performances and lasted games I can see kidney picking him.

touts · 11-10-2011 7:36am

mossyc123 wrote: »

It's 19 Months away...so why isn't O'Driscoll being considered here?!

He will be 34 and 4 Months by the time it kicks off.

No reason to believe he won't still be performing at the top level till then or is there?

AFAIK he is still on an International IRFU contract until Summer 2013... so he will be playing the next 2 6 Nations campaigns anyway.

Will there be 2 better Number 13's around by then?

Well he hasn't performed well in the last two years. He and Darcy are basically glorified back row forwards. The opposition know that they will either at the bottom of the ruck or running straight lines at the opposition pack. Yes he was a great attacking 13 but now he is an average defensive number 8. That is a major factor in why Ireland are not scoring trys. The ball never gets out of the 10 man pack. We only have 3 backs (two wings and fullback) and they will only see the ball if they come in to fill the gap left by O'Driscoll and Darcy who spend most of their time under an opposition prop.

totallegend · 11-10-2011 7:40am

castie wrote: »

Im not saying there is right now.
But if he did get back playing for Munster and had some good performances and lasted games I can see kidney picking him.

You know what the worst thing is? You're right.

IMO, picking him even on the bench would be totally counterproductive in terms of squad development but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Kidney do it. Whether it's Cronin or Mike Sherry, we need to bring someone else through and find out if they can hack it at international level because whatever gametime Flannery has left in him, it's very limited.

We need to start refreshing the squad, and the guys who are getting on and for whom we have genuine alternatives should be the first to go. That means Flannery, Cullen and Wallace should not be selected in future and we should prioritise bringing through two new centres, another out-half as backup to Sexton and a tighthead prop (oh, and a couple of second-rows).

touts · 11-10-2011 7:50am

yupyup7up wrote: »

Ireland:

Healy
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Bowe
Earls
Kearney

Agree with Healy, Ferris, SOB and Heaslip. They will be in a battle for starting places but they will be in the squad. SOB had the best chance of a starting place.

Too early to make a call on Murray. Sure he is a strong game lad but just like Reddan and Boss he looks more likely to be an average scrum half rather than a Lions scrum half. There will probably be an Irish scrum half making up the numbers on the bench for the mid week games but it could be any one of O'Leary, Reddan, Murray, Boss, Williams etc.

I'm afraid the Sexton experiment is a well and truly confirmed failure now. Unless the IRFU force Leinster's hand he will even struggle to dislodge Madigan when he gets back. If Gatland is the Lions coach he will be looking for the slightest excuse not to bring Irish and it is easy to find multiple excuses with Sexton. He just can't perform under pressure and the pressure does not get much greater than Lions tests. Even Keatley has a better shot at the Lions at this point.

Bowe and Earls are certs on the plane and their form will dictate where in the pecking order they come. I think Bowe will be the starting wing. Earls really needs to pick one position and stick to it for the next two years. Otherwise he will just be the utility back on the bench. Trimble has a great shot at being on the plane also. If Ulster can get a good run in the HEC then his star will rapidly rise.

Kearney is an impossible one to call. If he keeps up the form he has had for the last month he will be pushing to be the starting 15. If he returns to the form he had for the last 2 years he will be pushing his Lawnmower around his garden during the tour. He has to dislodge Nacewa in Leinster and it's hard to see him doing that. Perhaps a big money move to France could be a good career move for him and allow him to fulfill his talent. Of course the IRFU could force Leinster to send Nacewa to France to give Kearney the starting slot.

So for me the Irish line up could be as few as 6
Healy
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Bowe
Earls

spankadamonkee · 11-10-2011 7:55am

BoardsMember wrote: »

Trimble might force his way in there, if our learned coaches decide to reward players that play well every time they get the opportunity...

Couldnt agree more. Still baffled as to why he didnt get more opportunity a the world cup. Having been our best player during the 4/5 warm up games.

totallegend · 11-10-2011 8:05am

touts wrote: »

I'm afraid the Sexton experiment is a well and truly confirmed failure now. Unless the IRFU force Leinster's hand he will even struggle to dislodge Madigan when he gets back. If Gatland is the Lions coach he will be looking for the slightest excuse not to bring Irish and it is easy to find multiple excuses with Sexton. He just can't perform under pressure and the pressure does not get much greater than Lions tests. Even Keatley has a better shot at the Lions at this point.

Car-crash stuff. "The Sexton Experiment"? "Can't perform under pressure"? Maybe you're hoping to sneak this gibberish past people at such an early hour, maybe you're trolling for a reaction, but this paragraph is utter bullsh*t from start to finish. Sexton played well in the World Cup but he kicked for goal poorly, that was his only problem. At this stage, Keatley isn't fit to lace Sexton's boots.

touts · 11-10-2011 8:08am

totallegend wrote: »

You know what the worst thing is? You're right.

IMO, picking him even on the bench would be totally counterproductive in terms of squad development but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Kidney do it. Whether it's Cronin or Mike Sherry, we need to bring someone else through and find out if they can hack it at international level because whatever gametime Flannery has left in him, it's very limited.

We need to start refreshing the squad, and the guys who are getting on and for whom we have genuine alternatives should be the first to go. That means Flannery, Cullen and Wallace should not be selected in future and we should prioritise bringing through two new centres, another out-half as backup to Sexton and a tighthead prop (oh, and a couple of second-rows).

Does anyone think it is a good idea for Flannery to keep playing. Clearly the lad has serious injury issues and lets face it he is one of the few players who don't really need the money. His family own half the pubs in Limerick. He needs to have a serious think about what he wants with the rest of his life. Does he risk serious potentially life changing injury for the sake of another couple of years playing Rugby. It's a terrible pity to see his career cut short but someone needs to sit down with him and have a long talk about the greater picture of a 70-80 year life.

touts · 11-10-2011 8:14am

totallegend wrote: »

Car-crash stuff. "The Sexton Experiment"? "Can't perform under pressure"? Maybe you're hoping to sneak this gibberish past people at such an early hour, maybe you're trolling for a reaction, but this paragraph is utter bullsh*t from start to finish. Sexton played well in the World Cup but he kicked for goal poorly, that was his only problem. At this stage, Keatley isn't fit to lace Sexton's boots.

Not trolling and certainly not bullsh*t. Sexton can't perform under pressure. For 2 years he has fluffed game after game after game. You need to take your blue tinted glasses off and realise there is a serious issue with the lad. Do you seriously want us to believe that an outhalf who struggles to kick over 40% is a small problem. Trimble is a better passer than Sexton so by your logic he should have been the outhalf. Keatley, Madigan, Humphries etc have better kicking form than the guy and they are hardly world beaters. Outhalf is going to be a serious proble area for Ireland in the coming years (perhaps after ROG's performance on Saturday you could say it is now a serious issue).

Lions 2013 players impressing at RWC

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