Formula 1: Round 15 - Japanese Grand Prix

frostie500

Sebastian Vettel will retain his world championship this weekend with a solitary point and if the German can do so he will join the some of Formula 1’s legends such as Ayrton Senna, Mika Hakkinen, Alain Prost and Michael Schumacher as drivers to clinch a title at the fabled Suzuka circuit.

The Japanese venue has been home to some of the most explosive title deciders in history, the most notable undoubtedly being 1989 and 1990. In these seasons Senna and Prost went head to head for the championship and clashed both times with Prost taking the first title and Senna the second.

Their battles have been immortalised in the Senna movie, which coincidently was premiered at Suzuka last year, and while it is unlikely that this year’s world championship will be long remembered due to the domination of Vettel it is likely that the racing from this season will long be viewed as a time when Formula 1 returned to its roots and where wheel to wheel racing became the norm once again.

Vettel’s commanding lead should provide ample motivation for his rivals

Suzuka has generally been a circuit where overtaking has been quite difficult. However this weekend’s race at Suzuka should provide the opportunity for overtaking and with the leading drivers all resigned to the knowledge that Vettel effectively has an unassailable championship lead there is little doubt that Mark Webber, Fernando Alonso, Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton will all be supremely motivated to end recent run of success at Suzuka.

This is clearly a circuit that suits Vettel and Red Bull exceptionally well; the reigning champion has won at Suzuka for the last two years from pole position. But even with such a commanding lead in the championship it would be only human nature for Vettel to race with one eye on clinching the title and this could be the chink in his armour that might allow his teammate, Webber, to finally take his first victory of the season.

To do so Webber will need to finally get the better of his teammate off the start line. The Australian has struggled throughout 2011 to make clean getaways, he has lost 24 positions on the opening lap of races, and this has consistently left him struggling to fight back onto the podium throughout the season thus far.

The championship will be decided this weekend but for the leading lights there is still much to raced for as the season starts to draw to a close.

The Suzuka Circuit

Suzuka features a unique figure of eight layout and is consistently ranked as one of the drivers’ favourite races of the year. With fast flowing corners that link immediately from one turn to the next it is easy to see why the drivers love Suzuka and also why it is such a test of both the driver and car.

Vettel’s thoughts on the circuit are echoed by the entire grid with the 24 year old saying:

"Suzuka is one of my favourite tracks; it really couldn't have been built any better,” said the championship leader. “The first sector up to the Degner Curve is the most spectacular and challenging of the whole season. The 130R is legendary; it's great fun to drive straight through this left-hand bend.”

With Japan still recovering from the effects of the earthquakes and tsumami that hit the Far East in March this weekend’s race is another important milestone for the country to pass in their recovery. Coming just one week after Motegi hosted MotoGP it is clear that Japan are eager to move on and continue their recover.

This was a point not lost on 2008 world champion, and former Japanese GP winner, Lewis Hamilton:

"This year, of course, we all travel to Japan extremely mindful of the consequences of the earthquake and tsunami that ravaged the country earlier this year,” said Hamilton. “I hope that the Japanese Grand Prix can successfully show the world that the country is strengthening and rebuilding itself after the terrible events of last March."

The Englishman has struggled at times this season while also coming under fire for his aggression on track but while he is now not as eager to speak his mind there is little chance of him making a considerable change to his on track behaviour. Hamilton is one of the world’s most spectacular drivers and while his 2011 season has been filled with unfortunate tangles with opponents there is little doubt that Hamilton will come through this patch and hit the form of his title winning season once again.

Suzuka is a circuit tailor made for Hamilton but there is little chance that his McLaren will be a match for the Red Bull in terms of outright pace. Hamilton and teammate Button will have to rely on superior strategy and tyre preservation to have a chance of winning this weekend.

Suzuka is a circuit that places a tremendous strain on the tyres with huge loads being pressed through the tyres for almost the entire lap. With the opening section of the circuit seeing drivers flow from turn one all the way to the Spoon Curve that leads drivers onto the back straight there is no opportunity for the drivers, or the tyres, to breathe and as a result Suzuka is consistently one of the circuits on the calendar with the highest tyre wear rates.

With Pirelli taking the soft and medium tyre compounds to Japan, the same combination we saw in Germany and Belgium, it is clear that the watchword of the weekend will be the medium compound tyre.

Strategy will be dominated by minimising time on the prime tyre

Tyres have dominated strategic decisions throughout the season and this weekend’s race will be no different with three stop strategies set to be the norm at Suzuka.

Drivers will start the race on the softer option tyres (the yellow ringed soft compound rubber) and will do their best to leave as little time as possible on the harder medium compound tyre that they will finish the race on. With an expected 1.3s time difference between the compounds it is clear that a long final stint will not be attempted by anyone bar the Saubers and Force India drivers who can utilise their cars impressive tyre management to make a stop less than their rivals.

Sauber look primed for a strong race this weekend as they will surely use a two stop strategy for their drivers. Hometown hero Kamui Kobayashi will be eager to score points in front of his home crowd once again following his superb showing last year where he made numerous aggressive overtaking moves to finish seventh. The Japanese driver has had an impressive 2011 season with his teammate, Sergio Perez, also making full use of the well packaged Sauber which will have its final upgrade of the season this weekend.

Setup for Suzuka

Sauber’s technical director, James Key, spoke about the challenges facing his team this weekend:

"Suzuka is an exciting and technical track, with many high speed corners and a mix of very technical low speed corners, and it's also the only track with a figure of eight configuration,” said Key. “It's always something special for our team to go to Suzuka with Kamui as our driver, as we get a lot of extra support. Suzuka is a very challenging track, and both our drivers have shown in the past that they are particularly competitive on demanding circuits. Kamui drove a brilliant race last year in Suzuka with spectacular overtaking. Sergio only knows the track from the simulator, but I have no doubt he will also be strong."

Suzuka is a circuit dominated by medium and high speed corners and as a result a high downforce configuration is needed. This plays straight into the hands of Red Bull who can avail of using a lower wing setting due to the inherit downforce created by their car. This will allow Vettel and Webber to have a higher top speed and therefore optimize their DRS settings for both qualifying and the race. With a higher potential top speed the Red Bull’s should be well placed in their quest to continue their 2011 domination of qualifying.

Formula 1 2011 revovles on Pirelli tyres

Pirelli’s Paul Hembery was keen to talk of the challenges provided by the Japanese venue while also paying note the tragic events of earlier in the year:

"After what has been a devastating year for Japan, we are very pleased to be showing our support for the country and coming to the Japanese Grand Prix, on a circuit that all the drivers love,” said the Englishman. “Suzuka is all about putting power down effectively in order to obtain maximum grip in terms of traction, braking and cornering.

"There's a lot of energy and lateral load going through the rubber, so once more it is going to be important for all the drivers to manage their tyres effectively, because of the speeds involved and a high-downforce set-up that pushes the tyres onto the road surface. We are likely to see our very first P Zero-equipped world champion crowned at Suzuka this weekend, so it's a race that is set to go down in our history. The combination of soft and medium tyres has produced several close finishes in the past, as there is not a hugely different level of degradation between these two compounds. All the ingredients are in place for a memorable race."

This weekend’s weather

With Suzuka situated close to the coast there is always the potential for rain during the course of the weekend but the local forecast has said that there will be clear, blue skies with temperatures in the low to mid twenties throughout the weekend providing near perfect conditions for this weekend’s race.

TV Times for this weekend:
Friday 7 October:
Practice one - 0200-0330 BBC Red Button
Practice two - 0600-0730 BBC Red Button
Saturday 8 October:
Practice three - 0300-0400 BBC Red Button
Qualifying - 0600-0700 BBC1
Sunday 9 October:
Race - 0600 BBC1

amacachi

Had a look at Formula1.com but couldn't see anything, any word on where the DRS is gonna be?

bennyx_o

amacachi wrote: »

Had a look at Formula1.com but couldn't see anything, any word on where the DRS is gonna be?

Start/finish straight. Detection zone at the end of 130r with the activation point between Casino Triangle and turn 1

frostie500

Yeah just the single DRS zone, I would have thought we would have two. One out of Spoon Curve and then the start finish straight

amacachi

Out of spoon would have been a far better place to have it IMO. Still, we shall see.

decisions

Looking forward to this one.

I'm hoping for a good midfield battle this week, I think Kobiashi (sp?) will be lively and should be looking at good points. Schmacher to bounce back from last race and put in a solid performance. Oh and Seb to crash out.

Charlie-Bravo

decisions wrote: »

Oh and Seb to crash out.

Little too early and it happened in Practice, you should have saved your comment for after Qualifying to hex him:D

decisions

astrofluff wrote: »

Little too early and it happened in Practice, you should have saved your comment for after Qualifying to hex him:D

Dam! :pac:

Northern Monkey

Looks like no staying in bed this weekend! Rugby and qualifying tomorrow at 6 and then the race at 7 on Sunday.

decisions

Northern Monkey wrote: »

Looks like no staying in bed this weekend! Rugby and qualifying tomorrow at 6 and then the race at 7 on Sunday.

I still can't decide if I'm happy about that or not. I like my mornings in bed, but at the same time...

amacachi

Thankfully that wasn't as bad as the aftermatch looked.


Also, afternoons in bed are better. :pac:

maygitchell

Hey, when you say 0600-0700 for quali, does that mean no pre quali build up?

amacachi

BBC coverage starts at 5, Quali at 6. FP3 is on BBC now on the Red Button if you're bothered.

maygitchell

amacachi wrote: »

BBC coverage starts at 5, Quali at 6. FP3 is on BBC now on the Red Button if you're bothered.

Always

amacachi

Have to say even the on-boards with Kobayashi are great, even his gear-changes are flamboyant. :pac:

deafroadrunner

by any chance any free streams i can watch

amacachi

Hamilton done fcuked up! Such a pity Button couldn't finally put something other than a Red Bull on pole.

Kobayashi starting from 7th at the moment, fingers crossed he gets an awesome start.

TheChrisD

I wonder if there's better or worse odds on Kamui winning at home, seeing as how Sato failed to win at Motegi a couple weeks ago...

amacachi

Hamilton fairly fcuked Schumi over in qualifying. No word on a penalty obviously.

Slutmonkey57b

Errr, what? Schumi was two cars behind and took to the grass to get past him. All 3 of those involved could have left their garages 45 seconds earlier and avoided the whole debacle.

amacachi

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Errr, what? Schumi was two cars behind and took to the grass to get past him. All 3 of those involved could have left their garages 45 seconds earlier and avoided the whole debacle.

Schumi and Webber had to try and make last-ditch attempts to get past Hamilton. Would love if BBC would show another angle to see how long Webber and Schumi had been behin Hamilton. Webber made it over the line in time and Schumi was right with him, because of Hamilton cruising Webber had to dive down the inside and Schumi had to take to the escape road, had Hamilton not been tooling around then Schumi would've almost certainly made it over the line.

robinph

amacachi wrote: »

..., had Hamilton not been tooling around then Schumi would've almost certainly made it over the line.

Had Schumi not been sat in his garage for so long he would have made it over the line. It's not as if there wasn't plenty of room to drive past a slowly moving car at any point before the chicane if Webber and Schumacher had been that close behind already.

frostie500

robinph wrote: »

Had Schumi not been sat in his garage for so long he would have made it over the line. It's not as if there wasn't plenty of room to drive past a slowly moving car at any point before the chicane if Webber and Schumacher had been that close behind already.

Hamilton was cruising just off the racing line on the fastest section of the track, whether or not Schumi and Webber left it too late is irrelevant. When both drivers came upon Hamilton the track was live and there was still time to run in the session so therefore Hamilton could be argued to have balked the efforts of other drivers.

amacachi

robinph wrote: »

Had Schumi not been sat in his garage for so long he would have made it over the line. It's not as if there wasn't plenty of room to drive past a slowly moving car at any point before the chicane if Webber and Schumacher had been that close behind already.

It's completely irrelevant. If someone isn't keeping up a good enough speed or interferes with someone else there's often a penalty given. Maybe the fact that it didn't "directly" interfere with anyone's flying lap, just their warm-up. Still bad form though.

robinph

frostie500 wrote: »

Hamilton was cruising just off the racing line on the fastest section of the track, whether or not Schumi and Webber left it too late is irrelevant. When both drivers came upon Hamilton the track was live and there was still time to run in the session so therefore Hamilton could be argued to have balked the efforts of other drivers.

Well they all left it too late, there is only room for one person to me making it across the line with a second to go. There was three drivers aiming for that. Hamilton was lined up an appropriate distance behind the guy in front to get clear air and was also in time to make the cut off time.

Webber and Schumacher realised that they were too late so took that spot of track from Hamilton. Hamilton then backed off further so he wasn't right up Schumachers gear box, that was too far back and he missed the time.

Webber "stole" the last chance over the line from the other two. But they are all at fault for leaving it too late.

amacachi

Have you seen any angles other than the on-board? I'd like to see them and also see how much time he wasted in the last sector and a bit while being told by the team to hurry up.

There may only be one person who can get across the line with 1 second to go but had Hamilton been going at a proper speed he would've crossed with time to spare and Webber and Schumi could've gotten through as well. You said yourself only one person can be the last one over the line in time and had Hamilton gone at a proper speed it wouldn't have been him.

robinph

But how much closer to the guy in front would it have been sensible for him to get? Would have to see the clip again, but seemed that he was gaining on the car infront along the "straight", but he'd not have wanted to be any closer than he was at the start of the chicane...then the other cars appeared.

Think it may have been Button infront, but wasn't really clear.

If so then it's McLarens fault for sending their cars out too close together at the end of qualifying. It is also Red Bulls and Mercedes fault for sending their drivers out after the McLarens.

amacachi

Tough titty about how close he'd have been to the car in front. Had Hamilton not been where he was then both Schumi and Webber could've started their laps in time. That's blocking as far as I'm concerned, whatever his reason for doing it. Like I said, I assume the fact that it wasn't on their quick laps is why there wasn't a penalty. I don't see why they couldn't give a penalty though, see Hungary '07. :pac:

robinph

Can't blame Hamilton for Schumacher not making it across the line in time, he was too late and there was two other people infront of him also on the limit to making it in time.

Could possibly blame Webber for blocking Hamilton thus making him miss the cut off.

Didn't see anything from Hamiltons on board to suggest he was blocking the other guys.

I don't think there was space for more than one of them to make it across the line.

Edit: Just had another look back on the recording and Hamilton is closing pretty quick on what certainly looks like Button infront. But that just proves again that they were all cutting it too fine. He could have got a bit closer to Button, but backed off a tiny bit more than needed on the lead into the chicane once he saw Button infront.

Edit2: I don't think Hamilton not being there would have made any real difference. Would still have only been Webber that got through and Schumacher would have missed. Why should Hamilton have to make way for the other guys anymore than they should make way for him?

frostie500

robinph wrote: »

Could possibly blame Webber for blocking Hamilton thus making him miss the cut off

How exactly did Webber block Hamilton, he overtook him on corner entry and then made it through the Triangle Chicane as quickly as possible from his entry line

amacachi

robinph wrote: »

Can't blame Hamilton for Schumacher not making it across the line in time, he was too late and there was two other people infront of him also on the limit to making it in time.

Could possibly blame Webber for blocking Hamilton thus making him miss the cut off.

Didn't see anything from Hamiltons on board to suggest he was blocking the other guys.

I don't think there was space for more than one of them to make it across the line.

Edit: Just had another look back on the recording and Hamilton is closing pretty quick on what certainly looks like Button infront. But that just proves again that they were all cutting it too fine. He could have got a bit closer to Button, but backed off a tiny bit more than needed on the lead into the chicane once he saw Button infront.

Edit2: I don't think Hamilton not being there would have made any real difference. Would still have only been Webber that got through and Schumacher would have missed. Why should Hamilton have to make way for the other guys anymore than they should make way for him?

Schumi missed the line by a second at most, did you notice how much momentum he lost from cutting the chicane?

There was plenty of space. It may not have been ideal and it may have been in turbulent air but again, tough titty, you can't block someone else just to suit yourself.

People are entitled to a clear run and not have their qualifying interfered with by someone not on a flying lap, Hamilton wasn't on a flying lap and interfered with their session. I'm not saying it definitely warranted a penalty but something could've been given but next time he knocks a wheel off someone's car BBC will be moaning about him being picked on.

Voodu Child

If you look at the GPS you can see how it happened.









Shumi and Webber were a fair distance back, there is no point prior where they could have overtaken Hamilton. They only came up to Hamilton right before the chicane.

Its all very well to say they all should have been out 30 seconds beforehand but we know that's not the way it works. Last over the line often benefits so inevitably there's going to be guys fighting over the same piece of tarmac sometimes.

robinph

frostie500 wrote: »

How exactly did Webber block Hamilton, he overtook him on corner entry and then made it through the Triangle Chicane as quickly as possible from his entry line

In the same way that Hamilton blocked Schumacher and Webber...in that he didn't. Hamilton backed of a lot once Webber went past and was very slow around the remainder of the chicane. If he'd put his foot down though he'd have either just driven into the back of Schumacher as he skidded across the track, or been too close to Webber to make a lap worthwhile completing. That is why Webber and Schumacher went past, they realised that they needed to be in the space that Hamilton had created for himself. Hamilton would still have made the time if Webber had not gone past, but there is no requirement for Hamilton to have to speed up just so that the guy behind, who is also running it too close to the cut off time, can make it through. None of them were on hot laps.

Nobody blocked anyone. Everyone was too late out of the pits.

amacachi wrote: »

Schumi missed the line by a second at most, did you notice how much momentum he lost from cutting the chicane?

There was plenty of space. It may not have been ideal and it may have been in turbulent air but again, tough titty, you can't block someone else just to suit yourself.

People are entitled to a clear run and not have their qualifying interfered with by someone not on a flying lap, Hamilton wasn't on a flying lap and interfered with their session. I'm not saying it definitely warranted a penalty but something could've been given but next time he knocks a wheel off someone's car BBC will be moaning about him being picked on.

BBC are certainly not saying anything like Hamilton can do no wrong. Did you see the segment in the pre-show where they went through the previous incidents this year? They were mostly saying the various things were his fault, except for in Spa where EJ was being blind to the facts when DC was showing him Kobiashi turning in on Hamilton in the slow-mo and so it wasn't actually Hamiltons fault after all.

frostie500

robinph wrote: »

In the same way that Hamilton blocked Schumacher and Webber...in that he didn't. Hamilton backed of a lot once Webber went past and was very slow around the remainder of the chicane. If he'd put his foot down though he'd have either just driven into the back of Schumacher as he skidded across the track, or been too close to Webber to make a lap worthwhile completing. That is why Webber and Schumacher went past, they realised that they needed to be in the space that Hamilton had created for himself. Hamilton would still have made the time if Webber had not gone past, but there is no requirement for Hamilton to have to speed up just so that the guy behind, who is also running it too close to the cut off time, can make it through. None of them were on hot laps.

Nobody blocked anyone. Everyone was too late out of the pits.

You are correct in saying that there's no requirement to speed up if another driver is close behind but as you can see from this image Hamilton is in the middle of the race track at a vastly reduced speed.



If he take the inside, or outside, line he leaves enough of the circuit for Webber to pass safely, he would also have left enough room for Schumi. Because he stays in the middle of the track as he brakes into the chicane Webber has moved through and Lewis has to ease off the brakes and run wider away from the apex which is now covered by the Red Bull. as you can see from the second image this has forced Schumi to take avoiding action off the circuit because there was no opportunity for Schumi to overtake him safely before coming into the corner.

As I said earlier regardless of whether the drivers would have been able to make it to the start finish line is completely irrelevant because the track was green at this point

Ghost Train

All 3 to blame for where they found themselves. Hamilton though was in a position where he could have got over the line, maybe was a bit greedy looking for more space. On good side of grid so might work ok for him. Could make it more interesting for the race.

amacachi

robinph wrote: »

In the same way that Hamilton blocked Schumacher and Webber...in that he didn't. Hamilton backed of a lot once Webber went past and was very slow around the remainder of the chicane. If he'd put his foot down though he'd have either just driven into the back of Schumacher as he skidded across the track, or been too close to Webber to make a lap worthwhile completing. That is why Webber and Schumacher went past, they realised that they needed to be in the space that Hamilton had created for himself. Hamilton would still have made the time if Webber had not gone past, but there is no requirement for Hamilton to have to speed up just so that the guy behind, who is also running it too close to the cut off time, can make it through. None of them were on hot laps.

Nobody blocked anyone. Everyone was too late out of the pits.

You say there's no requirement to not block someone while they're not on fast laps, so why did Alonso get a penalty in Hungary 07?

BBC are certainly not saying anything like Hamilton can do no wrong. Did you see the segment in the pre-show where they went through the previous incidents this year? They were mostly saying the various things were his fault, except for in Spa where EJ was being blind to the facts when DC was showing him Kobiashi turning in on Hamilton in the slow-mo and so it wasn't actually Hamiltons fault after all.

They're being far too easy on him. In the incident with Kobayashi, what should he have done? Drive straight on off the track?


EDIT: In the last pic Frostie put up you can see that Schumacher was neck-and-neck with Webber. Had Hamilton not been in the way then Schumi would've made the line in time. He wouldn't have had much space but I'm sure he would've fallen back over the lap anyway. Hamilton is within his rights to try and find space but not when it affects other drivers.

robinph

amacachi wrote: »

You say there's no requirement to not block someone while they're not on fast laps, so why did Alonso get a penalty in Hungary 07?

Can't remember that one right now.

amacachi wrote: »

They're being far too easy on him. In the incident with Kobayashi, what should he have done? Drive straight on off the track?

Are you saying that Hamilton was planning on not taking the corner as well then?

robinph

Clearly open to interpretation, and any pre-existing bias.

The sequence of images from Voodu Child show to me that Vettel, Massa, Button and Hamilton all went through the chicane at about the same spacing. Although Massa slows a lot more on the exit to get back from Vettel. Hamilton was exactly where he should have been in terms of distance behind Button.

The other set of onboard images from frostie500 don't show anything out of order. When you see the full clip in real time, slowed down doesn't help, then you can see exactly where Hamilton is slowing down. He does slow down earlier before the chicane than you would in race, and he then slows down half way through once Webber is in front, but I think he had actually given up at that point as he knew he was on the cut off. Perfectly normal to take the last corner slow before starting the hot lap, what Webber had to do to make the cut-off was not normal.

amacachi

robinph wrote: »

Can't remember that one right now.

Alonso sat in the pits near the end of the session which stopped Hamilton from being able to get tyres changed and get out in time. But he was just looking for track position right? According to the marshals he impeded Hamilton.

Are you saying that Hamilton was planning on not taking the corner as well then?

He was taking his damn time about it. He seemed to expect a red carpet to be let through.


Anyway, obviously we're not going to agree so I'll leave it at this:
Schumi was dead level with Webber but had to jump the chicane because of Hamilton going slowly. Whatever his reason for going slow, it impeded Schumacher.

robinph

amacachi wrote: »

EDIT: In the last pic Frostie put up you can see that Schumacher was neck-and-neck with Webber. Had Hamilton not been in the way then Schumi would've made the line in time. He wouldn't have had much space but I'm sure he would've fallen back over the lap anyway. Hamilton is within his rights to try and find space but not when it affects other drivers.

The other drivers impeded themselves by leaving the pits too late on a crowded track. Did they not notice that there were a queue of people infront of them who were all going to be trying to find space which would spread them all out further.

If Hamilton is at fault for holding up Webber and Schumacher, then Button is at fault for holding up Hamilton, Massa is at fault for holding up Button and Vettel is at fault for holding up Massa.

That is clearly daft though.

amacachi

robinph wrote: »

The other drivers impeded themselves by leaving the pits too late on a crowded track. Did they not notice that there were a queue of people infront of them who were all going to be trying to find space which would spread them all out further.

If Hamilton is at fault for holding up Webber and Schumacher, then Button is at fault for holding up Hamilton, Massa is at fault for holding up Button and Vettel is at fault for holding up Massa.

That is clearly daft though.

No-one else impeded anyone else though. Trying to find space doesn't allow someone to block someone else.

frostie500

robinph wrote: »

The other drivers impeded themselves by leaving the pits too late on a crowded track. Did they not notice that there were a queue of people infront of them who were all going to be trying to find space which would spread them all out further.

If Hamilton is at fault for holding up Webber and Schumacher, then Button is at fault for holding up Hamilton, Massa is at fault for holding up Button and Vettel is at fault for holding up Massa.

That is clearly daft though.

To be honest the main point I'm making is that Lewis impeded other drivers on track, there is no way that it can be argued that Button cost Hamilton his lap by the way.

If Lewis wants to create space for himself he is perfectly entitled to do so but only if he doesnt impede other competitors. Thats the point I'm making about Hamilton. It's all fine and well to say that they should have known better(obviously they should have timed things better) but Hamilton's decision to sit in the middle of the track cost another competitor their final qualifying effort. Thats the only point I'm really looking to make

robinph

amacachi wrote: »

Alonso sat in the pits near the end of the session which stopped Hamilton from being able to get tyres changed and get out in time. But he was just looking for track position right? According to the marshals he impeded Hamilton.

Ahh, that one. Well he could have found track position whilst on the track during the out lap I guess is the thinking behind that penalty.

amacachi

robinph wrote: »

Ahh, that one. Well he could have found track position whilst on the track during the out lap I guess is the thinking behind that penalty.

So it would've been ok if he'd blocked someone on track instead? :pac:

amacachi

Anyway, all's I was getting at was that in my opinion they could've penalised. I'm not saying they should have because it could get messy in future, just that there was no suggestion of the Stewards investigating. IMO it very much takes the wind out of the victimised card.

robinph

amacachi wrote: »

IMO it very much takes the wind out of the victimised card.

No victimisation, that is all in his head.

Hamilton has just had all the bad luck this year. Vettel has had all the good luck.

amacachi

So which of the McLarens will have the cleanest race and take the win? :pac:

robinph

Simples, Button.

maygitchell

Morning all, looking for a good race today

amacachi

robinph wrote: »

Simples, Button.

Fingers crossed, good start for Hamilton would throw the cat amongst the pigeons.

amacachi

maygitchell wrote: »

Morning all, looking for a good race today

Once it's not too exciting at the end, I want to get some sleep straight afterwards :pac: