Crackdown on sale and owning of invasive species

garv123

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0928/1224304857053.html?fb_ref=.ToMwUQIxSIJ.like&fb_source=profile_oneline

MORE THAN 70 non-native plants and animals, including some which are kept as family pets, are to be eradicated under new EU regulations to protect indigenous Irish species.

The Department of Arts Heritage and the Gaeltacht has compiled a “blacklist” of unwanted species which have been identified as a major threat to native wildlife.

Under the Birds and Habitats Regulations, signed into law by Minister for Heritage Jimmy Deenihan yesterday, it will be an offence to sell, import, breed, release or allow the invasive species to escape. Anyone holding the alien plants and animals will be required to “dispose of them appropriately”.

The species list includes long established pests such as the grey squirrel and rhododendron, but also animals which have become popular pets such as the Siberian chipmunk.

“Walt Disney has a lot to answer for,” Peter Carvill assistant principal officer with the National Parks and Wildlife Service said, “but really chipmunks are not suitable pets and most children would be just as happy with a guinea pig”.

Chipmunks can spread rabies and also carry ticks which harbour Lyme disease.

They also, along with the grey squirrel pose a threat to the native red squirrel. The parks and wildlife service will work with pet shops to ensure they were not selling any animals on the banned list, Mr Carvill said, while pet owners would be asked to either contain the animal and prevent it from breeding or return it to the pet shop for extermination or export to a jurisdiction where they were permissible.

“We will be making a concerted effort to work with pet shops to ensure they are not stocking undesirable animals. We’re not going to penalise people who have bought a chipmunk, because the last thing we want is for people to panic and release them into the wild, but it will be an offence if people try to breed them.”

In addition to pets, animals imported for hunting such as wild boar, roe deer, ruddy duck, and carp also make the banned list. A number of wild boar had to be removed from land in Co Wicklow last year after they had begun to breed, Mr Carvill said.

A small number of animals such as the hedgehog, Irish stoat and fox will be banned from offshore islands only, where they pose a particular threat to the eggs of native birds.

Trapping and shooting programmes were ongoing in relation to some non-native species including the grey squirrel, but Mr Carvill said it was unlikely the species would ever be eradicated.

“Really what we want to achieve now is to keep it from crossing the Shannon into the west.”

So according to this article the brown hair is now on the departments black list. strange since i taught they were rare enough and had a season.

Grizzly 45

And watch out now for a whole bunch of VERY intresting critters being released into the Irish countryside,as people abandon their exotics into the wild,depite the assurances.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Cass

The whole thing is farcical. AFTER grey squirrels have run rampant they decide to do something. It would be better suited, in these harder times, to introduce a Gov. bounty on them. I guarantee that would go alot further to eradicating them.

Also if they were serious why not remove the restrictions on such animals as Muntjac and other invasive species allow them to be shot, and hunted with other smaller caliber rifles that still would be considered adequate, but with no need for deer licenses, etc. I mean how does that make sense in anyone head.

Official 1 - Yeah we want them gone (muntjac)
Official 2 - How can we best eradicate them.
Official 1 - Let people hunt them.
Official 2 - That would work.
Official 1 - But not just anyone
Official 2 - What ya mean?
Official 1 - Well the hunter would need a deer license, deer legal rifle, etc, etc.
Official 2 - But wouldn't that restrict the amount that are shot? I mean to have all that you need to go through the same process as though you were hnting Red, Sika, Fallow.
Official 1 - Ermmmmmmmmm, we'll make the season all year round.
Official 2 - We're awesome.

:rolleyes:


joking (thats what the above was meant as although that failed ) aside, its way too little, way too late. Don;t get me wrong i respect the idea, but with no deptartment to enforce it, money being tight leading to layoffs, who is going to police it. Also this country is notorious for being lenient in its sentencing of such offences so anyone caught wouldn't be too worried, and most likely after a small fine back at it.

Anyway, rant over.

ace86

whats the problem with wild boar they used to raom this island no problem a few centuries ago do they breed like rabbits or destroy vegatation or something? couldnt they be introduced as game specie or the fact they have no natiral predators on the island they won't be allowed?

fodda

Ezridax wrote: »

Also this country is notorious for being lenient in its sentencing of such offences so anyone caught wouldn't be too worried, and most likely after a small fine back at it.

Anyway, rant over.

Does this mean you would like to see really tough sentancing on people releasing alien species into the wild in Ireland ezridax? If so would that be jail or what?

johngalway

rhododendron

Non hunting mini rant:

Should be hung, drawn, and quartered for planting, helping spread, or doing nothing to stop the above yoke from spreading.

Birdnuts

johngalway wrote: »

Non hunting mini rant:

Should be hung, drawn, and quartered for planting, helping spread, or doing nothing to stop the above yoke from spreading.

Indeed - giant rhubard, himalyan balsam and certain foreign pond plants are nearly as bad in their own ways:(

kildare.17hmr

ace86 wrote: »

whats the problem with wild boar they used to raom this island no problem a few centuries ago do they breed like rabbits or destroy vegatation or something? couldnt they be introduced as game specie or the fact they have no natiral predators on the island they won't be allowed?

they would completely destroy any land they are on and move onto the next patch, they are very dangerous animals too, pure muscle with sharp tusks. Not something your want wondering around even tho it would be great to hunt them. Australia is over run with them and they are a huge pest

garv123

Ive seen a letter with a deer licence this year titled "Invasive species alert"
It was about munty and how if you spot on you should contact a number immediately to report the spotting.

ace86

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

they would completely destroy any land they are on and move onto the next patch, they are very dangerous animals too, pure muscle with sharp tusks. Not something your want wondering around even tho it would be great to hunt them. Australia is over run with them and they are a huge pest

Its just a mate of mine went to eastern europe a few years ago shooting them and i never realised they would be such a threat i know they would be dangerous if you came upon them but i didnt think they would do alot of damage.

Birdnuts

ace86 wrote: »

whats the problem with wild boar they used to raom this island no problem a few centuries ago do they breed like rabbits or destroy vegatation or something? couldnt they be introduced as game specie or the fact they have no natiral predators on the island they won't be allowed?

They can cause problems in some tillage areas - though I can't see them causing many problems in non-tillage areas which would include most of the N and W of the country as well as Mountainous areas elsewhere.

In any case they are now common and widespread across most of Europe and increasingly so in many parts of the UK. So I guess it wouldn't be the end of the world to have a few about but in the right places. They sure make for great sport and the meat is only divine:D;)

garv123

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

they would completely destroy any land they are on and move onto the next patch, they are very dangerous animals too, pure muscle with sharp tusks. Not something your want wondering around even tho it would be great to hunt them. Australia is over run with them and they are a huge pest

A huge fella not so far from me was shot outside a primary school in south tip.
not something you want near children

Birdnuts

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

. Australia is over run with them and they are a huge pest

Indeed - but in Australia they are non-native unlike the situation in Europe:)

johngalway

Birdnuts wrote: »

the meat is only divine:D;)

Had it once in London, still hankering after more!

Birdnuts

garv123 wrote: »

A huge fella not so far from me was shot outside a primary school in south tip.
not something you want near children

They are now present in and around many major European cities including Berlin. Some good youtube footage of them feeding in a park there. I am not aware of them being considered a particular threat to humans. Like any large animal they need to be threated with respect and caution, but then the same goes for Stags etc.

Grizzly 45

That is the main problem of boar.They are adaptavie and will live quite comfortably in a semi urban enviroment [Ala Berlin].Also our national product ,the potato is their favourite grub.So a good few wild boar will denude a couple of acres of spuds a night.Not to mind corn or maize.:eek:
As the hunter in Germany,you have the privilige of compensating the local farmer for the damage your game has done to his crops!So maybe if we introduced that here,we'd soon see if boar were a pouplar concept for a game species! After somone in Havemore Ave, D4 has had the lawn ruined by a boar loike!:D:D
By and large despite their size ,they are not aggressive to humans,and are very shy.
The only time they get aggressive is if they are injured or cornerd[obviously].Or if the sow precives a threat to her litter.IE you getting between them and her.But what animal ,bar the human one ,wont defend it's young to the death??:rolleyes:

Apart from thrichinosis[sic] they dont carry any other [bar rabies] communicable or notifiable diseases.If you want to see them live in the flesh here in Ireland .Take a trip over to Cragganowen Co Clare.They have or had a herd of them in the park near the Crannog.
All in all, if that could be lived with,they wouldnt be that much of a problem here.

Cass

fodda wrote: »

Does this mean you would like to see really tough sentancing on people releasing alien species into the wild in Ireland ezridax? If so would that be jail or what?

Out if everything i said you pick up on only that point. No opinion yourself just that point. Well i've had my lunch so why not.


Yes i would like to see harsher punishment dished out, but not SOLELY for those illegally introducing non-native, and invasive species but all round. Poachers, puppy farms, animal cruelty, animal protection, etc, etc.

Recently i reported a cow on its side to a local as i didn't know the farmer and had no permission to be on his land. 4 days later i'm back out stalking and the cow still there in more distress. Eventually reported it to local animal welfare group and An Gardai. Not to cause trouble, but to get the animal help. 3 weeks later i get a call from a lad that had gotten my number through a "mutual friend" threatening me about keeping my nose out of his business, and after 35 years he knows how to look after his livestock.

When i rang gardai about this they said its between me and him, the animal welfare group had no power to convict, and said its not worth their time to try as the fine would be 25% of the cost.

Now the minister brings in this ridiculously late "action plan" that should have been introduced years ago. I mean how are these people getting these animals in. They don't paint stripes on a Boar and call it a Zebra for Dublin zoo.

This line of thought is more suited to N&BW, but seen as how its come up. We are loosing our natural Red squirrel to Grey's. Muntjac are introduced with quicker, more frequent, and earlier breeding cycle becase they'll "be fun to hunt". No thought to the damage/effect they'll have on our native species or long established species incase you start on about certain breeds of deer not originally being from Ireland.

With all the cases (or lack thereof) in the media in recent years how many resulted in a significant enough fine/jail sentence to discourage the offender from re-offending? The money to be made ( or the personal gain were money is not the issue) is too much, and they know as well as all of us that IF caught they are facing a slight slap on the wrist.

And without going off topic to much (which already seems a lost cause) this applies to our penal/legal/judicial system aswell.

Forget locking them up. Hurt them in the pocket, take their guns. That'll make them stop or at least reconsider doing it again.

Second rant over.

Longranger

On wild boar,remember this. They have been extinct here for centuries,and when there was a population on this island,there was wolves to hunt them,and the boar were also a very popular quarry for rich folk and hungry folk alike,so their numbers were kept in check. Also,Ireland would have been more heavily forested at the time so the damage wild boar deos to trees,shrubs and the likes,was a lot less noticable.In France,near Lisson,countless vineyards have been decimated and the numbers shot by hunters has quadrupled in the last 25 years.Taking into account the urban sprawl and the hoards of city folk re-locating to the countryside(quite often the type who would like to see boar roaming wild,even though they know feck-all about the problems they bring with them)on a small island like this contact is inevitable,and we should take into consideration the fact that they are a major problem in Oz(3,000,000 square miles,estimated boar population 20,000,000+since introduced in 1788),so what effect would they have here(32,500 square miles):eek::eek:. sorry if I boared anyone(couldn't help that one:D),but we really need to take this seriously. Just my two cents. LR

Grizzly 45

Be intresting to see wether the muntjac feature on the returns alot more by the end of this season.They,if the hype is to be belived should be proliferating by now at a good rate.After all ,if they breed all year and they have been here now five years, there should be a good return now this year.
Ditto the mythical roe deer of Ireland.[Who would do about as much damage as any other deer species were they here.]

Remember too,muntjack are were available here too as exotic pets as well.So lets not beat ourselves up too publicaly that " irresponsible hunters introduced them".As despite this media statement by Dr Ruth Carden,she has never produced one shred of evidence publicaly to back up that outrageous claim!!:mad:We have enough trial by media of our sport without us assisting in selecting the hemp to make the rope to hang us.

Grizzly 45

Longranger wrote: »

On wild boar,remember this. They have been extinct here for centuries,and when there was a population on this island,there was wolves to hunt them,and the boar were also a very popular quarry for rich folk and hungry folk alike,so their numbers were kept in check.

Think the boar was gone here by Elizabethen times,and the last wolf by the mid 1600s[?].By then Ireland had been pretty much deforested by the English for Westminister Abbey,and their naval fleets.:)
Which would have hastened the end of the Irish wild boar.Oak acorns are their main food supply,oak was the main wood to be found here.No oak,no acorns,no boar.

The only people who would have hunted here were the Irish/English nobility..As I suppose the Norman laws of venison would still have applied to all commoners??IE kill somthing wild belonging to the local Lord,and off comes your head,hands ,or somthing else .

Also,Ireland would have been more heavily forested at the time so the damage wild boar deos to trees,shrubs and the likes,was a lot less noticable

Apart from having a good scratch on a certain tree close to a wallow hole after a nice wallow in the mud.They dont do much damage to trees.
Even orchards or young fruit trees,they will eat the fallen fruit,but not damage the trees.Maybe give them an enthaustic thump to knock down more fruit...:)The main damage they do is rooting up lawns or fields in search of grubs,mice,moles etc..root crops and corn or maize,or young wheat and barley.

.In France,near Lisson,countless vineyards have been decimated and the numbers shot by hunters has quadrupled in the last 25 years.Taking into account the urban sprawl and the hoards of city folk re-locating to the countryside(quite often the type who would like to see boar roaming wild,even though they know feck-all about the problems they bring with them)on a small island like this contact is inevitable,and we should take into consideration the fact that they are a major problem in Oz(3,000,000 square miles,estimated boar population 20,000,000+since introduced in 1788),

Abit chalk and cheese in comparison there..Ireland [an island ] Vs Austrailia[ a Continent].:D But your point is valid.They will breed,up to the point of pouplation sustainability.IE AZ has massive spaces for them to spread out to,but again what happens when the pouplation overreaches a food supply around AZ major cities or agricultural area???Dieback,to a level the food supply can sustain.Lisson and Berlin are good cities to compare on this.Berlin,the swine are raiding suburban garden plots and orchards.Lisson the vineyards.Both plentiful food supplies for a sustainable pouplation.Control the food supply,you control the pouplation.

Ireland OTOH. Where do we grow massive amounts of spuds anymore,or hectares of corn or sugar beet,or have massive oak woods?They are omnivoures.IE anything we eat so can a pig ,and vice versa.[Bar raw acorns.] By and large we are a pasture land with dairy cattle,with odd clumps of forestry of commercial softwoods on unusable ground.Tillage if any left is concentrated in the SE of the country.So by and large our countryside wouldnt even allow a large boar pouplation anyway .
You would get isolated clumps of them around the countryside,but nothing alarming methinks.
Sorry for making a pig of this.:D

fodda

Grizzly ....even in jest there are people who will believe that. The real reason why there are no great forests is because of charcoal production and sheep who make sure nothing ever grows again or replenishes itself except grass. Same happened to northern England and Scotland.

I dont think the sheep farmers of the west of Ireland would be too happy about wild boar/pigs taking their fences out on a regualar basis.

Birdnuts

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

! After somone in Havemore Ave, D4 has had the lawn ruined by a boar loike!:D:D
.

As good a reason as any to have them back:D;)

Grizzly 45

fodda wrote: »

Grizzly ....even in jest there are people who will believe that.

Belive what??Lost me here.

I dont think the sheep farmers of the west of Ireland would be too happy about wild boar/pigs taking their fences out on a regualar basis.

You mean stone walls???:)I dont see the connection...The West would be the least likely area for wild boar anyway. Tipperary South Riding would be kind of ideal.Crops and forestry patches.

fodda

Birdnuts wrote: »

They can cause problems in some tillage areas - though I can't see them causing many problems in non-tillage areas which would include most of the N and W of the country as well as Mountainous areas elsewhere.

My reference to sheep farmers.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Belive what??Lost me here.

Sorry i thought you was referring to the old story of why there is not many trees in Ireland.

Longranger

Fair enough griz, time for me to do a bit more research,then take my foot out of my mouth and go for a pint;) on the other hand, it's a nice evening,I'm going looking for charlie!!

Mauser 308

Ezridax wrote: »

Muntjac and other invasive species allow them to be shot, and hunted with other smaller caliber rifles that still would be considered adequate, but with no need for deer licenses, etc. I mean how does that make sense in anyone head.
.

Ez, you are quite right but can you imagine they way it would go. There would be guys out shooting sika, red, fallow calfs etc claiming they thought they were Muntjac. IMO anyone who shot something out of season ie a calf would then claim "I was sure it was a Muntjac" at the time. I have been out several times and seen young fallow calf's dashing off when disturbed only for people to tell me the place is full of Muntjac. In my experience down where I shoot any deer small/fleeting and very fast has been referd to a a munty....
I reckon a bounty system funded by say the returns from game dealers, or dare I say it a very small admin say €10 charge on deer licence applications or posibly say €200 inital charge to get your first NPAW deer licence then free after that. I believe something like that would fund proper ranger patrol's and a bounty on invasive species. Just my opinion and I know plenty will disagree with the charging for deer licences but it would work if done properly, and not hiked up every time the goverment or NPAWS needed a few bob. Again just my opinion a a humble stalker.

LostCovey

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Apart from thrichinosis[sic] they dont carry any other [bar rabies] communicable or notifiable diseases.

True, but if any new pig disease came in (swine fever, foot & mouth etc) a wild boar population would make it really hard to eradicate.

LC

Tackleberrywho

LostCovey wrote: »

True, but if any new pig disease came in (swine fever, foot & mouth etc) a wild boar population would make it really hard to eradicate.

LC

Have to agree here.

I'm not a fan of messing with the Eco system.
Disease control is hard enough in farm management without Alien species of a similar genus being introduced.

Grizzly 45

LostCovey wrote: »

True, but if any new pig disease came in (swine fever, foot & mouth etc) a wild boar population would make it really hard to eradicate.

LC

True, IF it were to get into the wild.
But it would apply also in F&M to any and all cloven hoof animals out there as well.IE cattle,deer,sheep, domestic pigs, wild goats.So you would have to cull the entirety of anything out in the wild in the area.Swine fever and F&M are bad news ,but they are more likely in domestic farming situations than the wild.It would be very unlikely that boar would get in contact with domestic swine[as they are now 98% housed all their lives].

http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/diseases/controlmeasures/docs/sanco_7032_2010_en.pdf

For those who want to read up on how the EU would deal with an outbreak from wild boar.Fortunatly not too long a document.
Intresting is that it deals with small clusters [1000 to 2000] ,and there is oral antibiotics for a situation like this.

We would be back to the same arguement of do deer and badgers spread TB in Irish herds as the main carriers,or is it people trying to make a fast buck,and sloppy farming and fencing practises??

All in all it is totally academic,as I personally doubt wild boar would make a significant come back here as the terrain and food supply would be against them.