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Veronica guerin

  • 30-09-2011 11:04pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭


    This could be a touchy subject for some but here goes.

    Do you think she went too far? As in do you think she should have stopped what she was doing and let it be.

    After her family was threatened I know a few people who said that should have been it, She knew who she was dealing with and what they were capable of doing but kept on going. Some people call it bravery, Some stupidity.



    Edited:Ruining what could be a good conversation.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,071 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Nobody deserves what she got.. such a stupid question.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    maybe its her, maybe its maybeleene


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭TheMilkyPirate


    Nobody deserves what she got.. such a stupid question.

    What about the rest of the post, Do you think she went too far? Should she have stopped after her family was threatened.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Certainly didn't deserve it. She would have backed off if she suspected that she was going to be murdered. To think otherwise would suggest she had a death wish and that is fanciful.

    She was exposing bad guys making a living off drug prohibition who were living lavish lifestyles.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    baraca wrote: »
    This could be a touchy subject for some but here goes.

    Do you think she went too far? As in do you think she should have stopped what she was doing and let it be.

    After her family was threatened I know a few people who said that should have been it, She knew who she was dealing with and what they were capable of doing but kept on going. Some people call it bravery, Some stupidity.

    Did she deserve it?

    Stupid question, of course she did not deserve to get killed,she was doing her job.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭TheMilkyPirate


    Alright the last question shouldn't have been included, It wasn't my opinion but it could have been someone elses. If everyone could give their opinion on the rest of the post it would be cool.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 658 ✭✭✭The Jammy dodger


    She Sacrificed her life to save the likes of me and you. She did well IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Of course she didn't deserve it?

    Why do you think she deseved it OP? :trollfacé:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    baraca wrote: »
    Alright the last question shouldn't have been included, It wasn't my opinion but it could have been someone elses. If everyone could give their opinion on the rest of the post it would be cool.

    She did what she thought was right, I'm sure she knew her life was in danger because of it.
    I don't know if she should have stopped or not, if it was me I would probably do what she did and fight on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Nobody deserves the end she met. I admire her dedication to her role as an investigating journalist and the lenghts she went to, to expose members of organised crime.
    The question is did she let her crusade against these scumbags go too far. Personally I feel as soon as she and her family were threatened she should of pulled back. The cause wasn't worth losing her life for imo.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,071 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    baraca wrote: »
    What about the rest of the post, Do you think she went too far? Should she have stopped after her family was threatened.

    She was an investigative journalist.. one of the best the country has ever seen, and perhaps will ever see. She didn't go too far.. she went as far as her occupation allowed her to go. Should she have just ignored everything that she knew? The Gardai couldn't have acted on any of it, so she chased it herself, and because of that people were held accountable. To this day; the work she undertook goes towards disenfranchising criminals.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    She was doing her job, she was doing it well.
    She was an intelligent woman whom I'm sure consulted with her family as to if she should continue or not.
    No wife/mother(?) would just carry on regardless without talking to their family before continuing with their worried perhaps but still express best wishes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    baraca wrote: »
    What about the rest of the post, Do you think she went too far? Should she have stopped after her family was threatened.


    She was doing her job as an investigative reporter,she had a big ego, The Sunday Independent was pushing her for more & more real crime stories,But no matter the gilligan gang didn't have to kill her.I am sure she would have moved on to the real gangters as in FF politicians.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭TheMilkyPirate


    Of course she didn't deserve it?

    Why do you think she deseved it OP? :trollfacé:

    I don't.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    She Sacrificed her life to save the likes of me and you. She did well IMO.

    A bit like Jesus Christ.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭Carsinian Thau


    Extremely retarded question. Of course she didn't f*cking deserve it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭megaten


    She did well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭senorwipesalot


    Usually when I get a fcukin bullet in the leg I call a halt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    There's a lot more to the Veronica Guerin story than what was portrayed in the film of the months leading up to her death.

    Her death was a terrible event, something which of course, she did not deserve.

    There's also the argument however, that if you remove the criminal element to drugs, then you remove the need for criminal gangs. But that's another argument, I suppose.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭NufcNavan


    Cate Blanchett is a top ride.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭previous user


    The film Veronica Guerin is on BBC1 at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Veronica is a true Irish legend. i think she was of the firm belief that the scum she exposed simply had'nt the balls to kill her. she was right but the scum got even greater scum to carry out their dirty work and gun her down.
    she exposed what our farce of a justice system failed miserably to expose,
    a justice system that was designed for the dark ages, aided and abetted by a shambolic government who were busy plotting a property bubble with their banker/speculator/developer cronies in the comfort of "the tent".
    These scum are on par with the scum that murdered Veronica.
    A lot of good has come from her death,but not enough. Thanks to the likes of Paul Williams the work continues.
    She was the bravest of the brave. May she rest in peace.!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭JerryHandbag


    NufcNavan wrote: »
    Cate Blanchett is a top ride.

    Watch Notes On A Scandal. Whohoo!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    washman3 wrote: »
    Thanks to the likes of Paul Williams the work continues.

    You're havin' a laugh - Paul Williams is a muppet who is either clever enough to make up shit that people believe or stupid enough be fed stories from people who think he's an idiot.

    Or a combination of both.

    Either way, he's hardly what I'd call an investigative journalist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Usually when I get a fcukin bullet in the leg I call a halt.


    when you're paint-balling


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    You're havin' a laugh - Paul Williams is a muppet who is either clever enough to make up shit that people believe or stupid enough be fed stories from people who think he's an idiot.

    Or a combination of both.

    Either way, he's hardly what I'd call an investigative journalist.

    Not forgetting how protected he is. I dunno if he has as much protection now with the cut backs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    You're havin' a laugh - Paul Williams is a muppet who is either clever enough to make up shit that people believe or stupid enough be fed stories from people who think he's an idiot.

    Or a combination of both.

    Either way, he's hardly what I'd call an investigative journalist.


    You posting from "the Joy" ??
    thought 7.30 was lock up time.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    washman3 wrote: »
    Veronica is a true Irish legend. i think she was of the firm belief that the scum she exposed simply had'nt the balls to kill her. she was right but the scum got even greater scum to carry out their dirty work and gun her down.
    she exposed what our farce of a justice system failed miserably to expose,
    a justice system that was designed for the dark ages, aided and abetted by a shambolic government who were busy plotting a property bubble with their banker/speculator/developer cronies in the comfort of "the tent".
    These scum are on par with the scum that murdered Veronica.
    A lot of good has come from her death,but not enough. Thanks to the likes of Paul Williams the work continues.
    She was the bravest of the brave. May she rest in peace.!

    Paul Williams is more of a sensationalist journalist more so and loves himself.
    Other than that I agree with the rest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Me again!


    baraca wrote: »
    This could be a touchy subject for some but here goes.

    Do you think she went too far? As in do you think she should have stopped what she was doing and let it be.

    After her family was threatened I know a few people who said that should have been it, She knew who she was dealing with and what they were capable of doing but kept on going. Some people call it bravery, Some stupidity.



    Edited:Ruining what could be a good conversation.

    she died in 1996, why are you bringing this up. Surely you have something more current you could come up with?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    No one 'deserves' to be murdered, obviously; even someone who willingly works for the Sunday Independent.
    But it's legitimate to ponder on the motives and purpose of any 'investigative crime-reporter' and the owners and editors of the papers they work for, and to wonder if they simply exacerbate the situation; they're ultimately only there to sell papers.
    Should she not have done what she did? I suppose that was up to her.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    ascanbe wrote: »
    No one 'deserves' to be murdered, obviously; even someone who willingly works for the Sunday Independent.

    :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭General General


    ascanbe wrote: »
    No one 'deserves' to be murdered, obviously; even someone who willingly works for the Sunday Independent.
    But it's legitimate to ponder on the motives and purpose of any 'investigative crime-reporter' and the owners and editors of the papers they work for, and to wonder if they simply exacerbate the situation; they're ultimately only there to sell papers.
    Should she not have done what she did? I suppose that was up to her.

    A step above "War Correspondent", but nevertheless...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Biggins wrote: »
    Paul Williams is more of a sensationalist journalist more so and loves himself.
    Other than that I agree with the rest.


    Cant speak for other parts of the country, but i live in Limerick and i can tell you for sure anything Williams reports from here is 100% true. if anything its toned down a bit. there is nothing sensationalist about it.
    the scum he reports on ARE capable of anything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Me again! wrote: »
    she died in 1996, why are you bringing this up. Surely you have something more current you could come up with?


    Are you trying to say that things which happened in the past have no relevance?

    Your history teacher must love you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Me again! wrote: »
    she died in 1996, why are you bringing this up. Surely you have something more current you could come up with?

    Turn on your TV and flick to BBC One

    And the OP came up with one of the better threads in AH


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    A step above "War Correspondent", but nevertheless...

    To be honest, i'd consider them several steps below, in most cases..
    Apart from in the case of 'embedded' war-correspondents; they're possibly a step above them, alright.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭PK2008


    They under estimated her courage, she under estimated their ruthlessness

    She is/was a hero


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    I watched the film and I came away with the opinion that she was a bit wreckless when it came to her personal and families safety. However I do think that she may have been encouraged into taking unnecessary risks by her employers which was not very apparent in the film.

    Edit: I also followed true events as they unfolded slightly different of course to what was portrayed in the movie.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,688 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Didnt killing her turn out to be the biggest mistake that the gangs ever made. Im open to correction but I think her murder led to the setting up of CAB and that really did the criminals severe damage, directly where it hurt - in the pocket.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Me again! wrote: »
    she died in 1996, why are you bringing this up. Surely you have something more current you could come up with?

    Yes 1996, all of 15 years ago.!! And it should be brought up every week for the next 15 years and rammed down the throats of the people that failed her. :mad:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭TheMilkyPirate


    Me again! wrote: »
    she died in 1996, why are you bringing this up. Surely you have something more current you could come up with?

    You'd be a big hit in the history forum


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,008 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    A true hero.

    Scum like Ahern should be :o at what they're milking from the state considering what she done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭EGAR


    Standing up for what you believe in and exposing wrong doing doesn't seem to be an Irish thing at all recently. People are way to complacent and have an *ah **** it, let someone else do it* attitude, even now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    mickdw wrote: »
    Didnt killing her turn out to be the biggest mistake that the gangs ever made. Im open to correction but I think her murder led to the setting up of CAB and that really did the criminals severe damage, directly where it hurt - in the pocket.

    Yep. Her murder apparantely instigated the introduction of CAB, alright.
    It's a pity, not to mention a wonder, that no-one in government has seen fit to introduce a similar scheme to deal with the white-collar criminals who have truly destroyed this country over the last number of years; or even to bother trying to truly look into/investigate it.
    That would be a true service to the state; in fact that's their duty.
    Do they fear being implicated? Possibly by association or, perhaps, something more concrete?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    PK2008 wrote: »
    They under estimated her courage, she under estimated their ruthlessness

    She is/was a hero

    Was that the tag-line for the movie?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    mickdw wrote: »
    Didnt killing her turn out to be the biggest mistake that the gangs ever made. Im open to correction but I think her murder led to the setting up of CAB and that really did the criminals severe damage, directly where it hurt - in the pocket.


    Quite true indeed. CAB was set up as a result of her murder. Actually years previous to that Barry Galvin,one of its original founders,suggested it but was rubbished and embarrased by the one and only Padraig Flynn.
    CAB proved a huge blow to the gangs but over the years they've slowly found ways round it. the gangs now make a "settlement" with CAB and then continue on their evil ways. this settlement is factored into their profiteering so they are'nt really at a loss.
    This goes against the original concept of CAB (founding members have now retired) and its more or less a revenue collecting outfit.
    CAB needed to be ratcheted up to higher levels over the years but once again the political will was absent.
    Ironically CAB was also supposed to investigate white collar crime. would this explain the lax attitude of the political class.??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    She got herself killed
    Mabey She was a great journo but she was warned she didn't listen then they wasted her

    I get the op's ppint

    It's not right but if I was doing summit that got me warned by bad men to stop I'd stop


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Tigger wrote: »
    She got herself killed
    Mabey She was a great journo but she was warned she didn't listen then they wasted her

    I get the op's ppint

    It's not right but if I was doing summit that got me warned by bad men to stop I'd stop

    Evil can only prevail while good people stand aside and do nothing.!

    In Irish terms that means "im alright Jack fcuk you"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I think what went too far was the govts reaction to it an the crime bills, specifically regarding bail.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭markc1184


    How close to real life are the events throughout the film? I remember hearing about it all on the news when it happened, but the background of it went over my head at the time. I was only about 11/12 at the time so wouldn't have got too deep into it anyway.


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