LauraLynn Hospice

BrianBoru00

Can any one explain to me how the hell this place cost 5 million????
Theres only 8 beds in it.

Does that money cover staff costs as well? because even though I m not an expert in contruction or medicine- Im pretty sure I could have built an 8 bedroom unit for an awful lot less than that..

Kasabian

Should it matter that 5 million was spent on it. The good that is being done in there is priceless.

Absurdum

I presume they cater for more than the 8 patients - families etc as well. What are you trying to suggest? That they should just throw them into a ghost estate and let them be?

Why not contact them instead of bad-mouthing them here?

http://www.sunshinehome.ie/lauralynn-house.html

super_furry

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Can any one explain to me how the hell this place cost 5 million????
Theres only 8 beds in it.

A hospice for dying children needs a hell of lot more equipment wise than just eight beds.

My name is URL

The medical equipment probably accounts for most of the cost. It was all paid for by private donations anyway.

Temptamperu

super_furry wrote: »

A hospice for dying children needs a hell of lot more equipment wise than just eight beds.

Really? seems like beds is all they need

galwayrush

Thinking about the top banker **** looking for a higher salary cap and some of the obscene pensions some of our nations top failures command, this 5 million is extremely good value.

aidan_walsh

Temptamperu wrote: »

Really? seems like beds is all they need

/makes note for Temptamperu's future doctors

even though I m not an expert in contruction or medicine- Im pretty sure I could have built an 8 bedroom unit for an awful lot less than that..

You could, I could and many other people could too. And they'd all be ****.

Princess Peach

They may only have 8 patients but the purpose of the hospice is to cater for the patient's families aswell. They have accommodation for them to stay close to the children.

Will

Ah yeah kids on their last legs, lets not make their last few days on earth as comfortable and as care free as possible

Crea

Temptamperu wrote: »

Really? seems like beds is all they need

Seriously - you really think this???:eek:

galwayrush

Temptamperu wrote: »

Really? seems like beds is all they need

WTF are you on about???
Do terminaly ill kids not deserve more for the time they have left than just a bed to die on????

AnonoBoy

Yeah a hospice for sick children is what we should be giving out about.

Definitely.

Kevin Duffy

Are you being fooled by the term "beds"? You know that's just how the capacity/cost is expressed? A "bed" means a nurse, doctors, equipment etc, not just a flat comfortable piece of furniture to lie on.

mikemac

Not knocking the work they do, it's fantastic. Great website too

They have a clinic service manager and that's needed
And they have a CEO, fair enough

And a HR manager?

How many small businesses have a dedicated HR manager?
Ok this isn't a business but to answer the OP, maybe the money is needed as they are top heavy with managers

AnonoBoy

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Are you being fooled by the term "beds"? You know that's just how the capacity/cost is expressed? A "bed" means a nurse, doctors, equipment etc, not just a flat comfortable piece of furniture to lie on.

Dictionary says no.

The dictionary can f*ck off though.

Am I right?

Am I RIGHT?

Burn the dictionary!

Kevin Duffy

mikemac wrote: »

Not knocking the work they do, it's fantastic. Great website too

They have a clinic service manager and that's needed
And they have a CEO, fair enough

And a HR manager?

How many small businesses have a dedicated HR manager?
Ok this isn't a business but to answer the OP, maybe the money is needed as they are top heavy with managers

For people working in that field, face-to-face with the dying, I think they deserve to have every small detail of their HR needs, as well as all other needs, taken care of to take as much pressure off them as possible. HR, IT, Corporate Services yadda yadda, give them whatever they need, they've enough to be doing.

TheZohanS

An idea of costs:

The cost of running the service in 2007 amounted to €5,290,125 of which €3,987,339 represented staff
costs. Non-pay expenses totaling €1,302,786 were incurred chiefly in the areas of capital maintenance,
medical equipment, IT investments, recruitment and overhead costs. In 2007, the service had a total income
of €4,931,810.

In 2009, 70 children and their families benefitted from care with the Children’s Sunshine Home.


We should count ourselves lucky that we've never had to use the service.

Kevin Duffy

TheZohan wrote: »

An idea of costs:



In 2009, 70 children and their families benefitted from care with the Children’s Sunshine Home.


We should count ourselves lucky that we've never had to use the service.

€75kish per child to give them the best care they can and take as much pressure as possible off families. Seems like good value for money to me if we have to pay for such a heartbreaking need.

lastlaugh

TheZohan wrote: »

An idea of costs:

The cost of running the service in 2007 amounted to €5,290,125 of which €3,987,339 represented staff costs. Non-pay expenses totaling €1,302,786 were incurred chiefly in the areas of capital maintenance,
medical equipment, IT investments, recruitment and overhead costs. In 2007, the service had a total income
of €4,931,810.


In 2009, 70 children and their families benefitted from care with the Children’s Sunshine Home.


We should count ourselves lucky that we've never had to use the service.

I know this is an emotive topic and anything that helps dying children's final days is a sacred thing but why is nearly 4million quid spent on staff costs?

How many staff are there to cater for 8 children?

Kevin Duffy

lastlaugh wrote: »

I know this is an emotive topic and anything that helps dying children's final days is a sacred thing but why is nearly 4million quid spent on staff costs?

How many staff are there to cater for 8 children?

8 children at a time.

Micky Dolenz

I heard the lady who started it on the radio yesterday. Such a brave and strong soul. we could really do with more people like herself. The will and drive to do good.

When she was talking about her deceased daughters, it really brought a lump to my throat.

I wish Mrs McKenna the best.

galwayrush

lastlaugh wrote: »

I know this is an emotive topic and anything that helps dying children's final days is a sacred thing but why is nearly 4million quid spent on staff costs?

How many staff are there to cater for 8 children?

That's still less than one ex top Anglo wanker's pension:rolleyes:

lastlaugh

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

8 children at a time.

I know that, but what about the Staff.

TheZohanS

lastlaugh wrote: »

I know this is an emotive topic and anything that helps dying children's final days is a sacred thing but why is nearly 4million quid spent on staff costs?

How many staff are there to cater for 8 children?

You'd be talking about 24 hour care 7 days a week, wouldn't take long for it to add up.

Alter-Ego

galwayrush wrote: »

That's still less than one ex top Anglo wanker's pension:rolleyes:

You're really pushing the banker angle in this thread. Sh1t's getting old...

lastlaugh

TheZohan wrote: »

You'd be talking about 24 hour care 7 days a week, wouldn't take long for it to add up.

So there would be a number of nurses on 12hr shifts to care for the children, say there is 20 nurses @ 60K, that's 1.2million, still another 2.8million on staffing left...

I'm not trying to question the validity of the place, the staffing costs does seem very high though...

LadyMayBelle

Temptamperu wrote: »

Really? seems like beds is all they need

Most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time. The costs will cover not only 'beds' but massively expensive equipment, staffing around the clock which means nurses, doctors, specialists, social workers, dieticians, fundraising and accounts teams, PR, OTs, physios, other complimentary care therapists, care workers and possibly art/play therapists and bereavement and palliative care counsellors, training, resources to make the kids and families feel like they are in a 'home from home' environment, support for families as well as sensory rooms and stuff that will make the quality of life for kids who have terminal illness, somewhat better.

I've worked in a hospice and a family member received care from their services and believe me, 5 million is not a lot of money.

Some people really madden me.

lastlaugh

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

Most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time. The costs will cover not only 'beds' but massively expensive equipment, staffing around the clock which means nurses, doctors, specialists, social workers, dieticians, fundraising and accounts teams, PR, OTs, physios, other complimentary care therapists, care workers and possibly art/play therapists and bereavement and palliative care counsellors, training, resources to make the kids and families feel like they are in a 'home from home' environment, support for families as well as sensory rooms and stuff that will make the quality of life for kids who have terminal illness, somewhat better.

I've worked in a hospice and a family member received care from their services and believe me, 5 million is not a lot of money.

Some people really madden me.

Well that answers my question about staffing costs.

Well said.

joan mack

At the end of the day, its the children that matter and to have a child in with a terminal illness is so soul destroying, I hope they get value for money

El Weirdo

Hold on. Are people actually begrudging the fact that kids are being let die with a bit of fucking dignity?

And am I right in thinking that this hospice is run from private donations with little, if any, money coming from the public purse?

Jesus fucking Christ. I think I'd actually prefer if we just went back to complaining about what we think disabled people are getting in benefits.

Mont

Listen, we all know that its a good project but OP is right. To get €5m of voluntary donations and build a project with capacity for 8 children is mismanagement of funds. Replace the word children with refugee and you see a totally different story.

Twee.

Mont wrote: »

Listen, we all know that its a good project but OP is right. To get €5m of voluntary donations and build a project with capacity for 8 children is mismanagement of funds. Replace the word children with refugee and you see a totally different story.

Did you bother to read the thread?

It's not for eight children to shack up in. It's for eight children plus their families, their families who have to deal with their child dying due to illness. It's for these kids to receive care and to enjoy the rest of their lives without being confined to a hospital ward. Home away from home, when home is not an option.

lastlaugh

The only thing that would concern me about the facility would be that the funds would mismanaged.

It's an emotive topic, and it seems that questioning if the costs involved are excessively high is taboo...

EGAR

Ahm, as far as I understand the money did not come from the taxpayer..? So why is it anyone's business on how much they are spending to ease the passage for dying children and their families..? 5 millions is not much for 70 kids per annum. Me thinks Ireland has more pressing issues!

cassid

I think its so important for families to stay together when there is a sick or terminal ill child. I really like the concept of the house and hope families who use it, will get some small comfort during very dark difficult times. Crumlin hospital have a ronald mc donald house that incorporates the same ethos and Temple street have a house outside the hospital grounds as well.

I do wonder about the €5 million costs and the charity have received millions from the HSE towards their ongoing costs. The staffing expenditure needs to be more transparent, if its primarily medical staff for the children, then its fully justified. If its the usual CEO's or HR manager salaries, when they the charity should be accountable to the use of the HSE money and the money people have kindly donated to the cause.

I just charities in Ireland are not transparent enough, the whole sector needs a good shake up.


Over 4 million in public money http://www.sunshinehome.ie/reports/annual_report_2009.pdf

DeVore

Because that money comes from donations which is a limited pool of cash. Them getting it, means unfortunately someone else doesnt. So, its not unreasonable to ensure that charities do NOT turn into personal empires with the top people making a personal fortune from them (like oh I dunno, the Irish Red Cross).

But in this specific case, it certainly doesnt seem so. 5m wont go far... at 70 patients thats about 75K each if my math is right.

A while back I broke my leg and as luck(!) would have it I had 9Million Canadian dollars of insurance. Curious, I looked at the costs of the insurance claim. My "bed" cost in excess of 10k a night. 30K for the two days while I was being worked on.

There is simply NOTHING like "medical" to rack up costs. 75K seems reasonable per kid.

DeV.

Owen

I was part of a third party fundraising initiative for the LL Hospice 2 years ago that went on annually across the country. We raised a fair bit of money, but it didn't seem like remotely enough when you see the job they do.

People like the staff there, and the make a wish foundation are about as good as they come. Begrudging them the money the fundraise for is incredible. Anyone who does should volunteer there for a few days and see if they have the same opinion then.

lastlaugh

EGAR wrote: »

Ahm, as far as I understand the money did not come from the taxpayer..? So why is it anyone's business on how much they are spending to ease the passage for dying children and their families..? 5 millions is not much for 70 kids per annum. Me thinks Ireland has more pressing issues!

Just because money doesn't come from the Taxpayer doesn't make it OK to throw it about unecessarily.

Indeed, for such a worthy cause, it's even more important that the funds they have are used as effectively as possible.

If I was a consultant in a position to help, I would gladly offer my services free of charge.

Cerocco

My friends child was one of the children on the news report tonight. This hospice care will give his parents respite from his 24hr home care so they can give extra time to their other 2 healthy children for 3 days out of 7. Its not just an 8 bedded unit where 8 children will be cared for. Many children and their families will benefit from the amazing heart wrenching work these people do. As I have seen first hand how difficult it is to care for an extremely sick child at home, i've sat up nights with my friend when her child was so ill it was honestly heartbreaking. I applaud the people who raised the funds to set up this valuable resorce for the children and their families.

El Weirdo

If people are coming on here and stating that there has been mismanagement of funds, I'd like them to provide links or figures to show what they think a project like this should cost. There wasn't even a link in the OP, ffs.

I'm all for transparency in charities' funding, btw. I just think that accusations without any evidence to back them up aren't doing anyone any favours.

EGAR

lastlaugh wrote: »

If I was a consultant in a position to help, I would gladly offer my services free of charge.

And since you are not your point is mute. If *if's* and *when's* comes to mind.

Zaph

Mont wrote: »

Listen, we all know that its a good project but OP is right. To get €5m of voluntary donations and build a project with capacity for 8 children is mismanagement of funds. Replace the word children with refugee and you see a totally different story.

I sincerely hope that you never find yourself in a position where you need avail of its services. If that day ever came then come back here and tell us that they are mismanaging the funds they have.

lastlaugh

EGAR wrote: »

And since you are not your point is mute. If *if's* and *when's* comes to mind.

My point is that if I was in a position to help, I would.

And my point is not 'mute', in fact, it's not even moot.

Good night.

Zen65

Mont wrote: »

To get €5m of voluntary donations and build a project with capacity for 8 children is mismanagement of funds.

Once in Ireland we had a society noted for its friendliness and caring, for its genuine concern for our fellow citizens.

Somewhere along the path, we became "rich" and our society lost its sense of purpose, eventually the whole concept of society was replaced by an economy. People were happy to go on sun holidays four times a year, and to spend a fortune on events such as Christenings, Debs dances, etc as a way of demonstrating their wealth.

We know now that those riches, and that economic boom were largely just falsehood. It amounted to little more than a massive and unsustainable debt being accumulated by a number of our citizens. The debt was encouraged by a plethora of "experts" who swore they knew how our money should be spent. Their ignorant advice and governance destroyed our economy and ruined the lives of so many people.

Despite that, some generous people worked tirelessly and scraped together some €5M to build this hospice, driven by the courage of parents who lost two daughters in a manner that would have broken the spirit of some of the strongest entrepreneurs in the country. That hospice was funded by private donations because the state, at its time of greatest wealth, did not set aside monies to provide for the weakest and most vulnerable of its citizens. We the tax-paying citizens did not demand that the monies be made available from the exchequer, because we were happy with our tax cuts, and as such we share in the shame of having put ourselves first.

I am simply astounded then, that somebody would describe the establishment of this Hospice as mismanagement of funds. I know this is the AH forum, but we should not take that to be a licence to speak mindless and hurtful nonsense. The LauraLynn Hospice should be seen as being the very epitome of what the Ireland should have become during the boom; a caring society, not simply a shallow affluent economy that pandered to the greediest of the greedy. I for one am grateful to those who donated, to those who collected, and those who work now in that place. I have no doubt that the monies are well spent, and those who work there provide comfort and dignity beyond the value of some euros to the families who have the misfortune to need its services.

This hospice should be respected as a no-bash zone. Now, let's close this thread and go bash something that is worthy of bashing.


Z

EGAR

lastlaugh wrote: »

My point is that if I was in a position to help, I would.

And my point is not 'mute', in fact, it's not even moot.

Good night.

Ah yes, and there is the magic word again: *IF* and since you are not AGAIN *if if's and when's*. As for the rest: anal (I hope I spelled that right ).

I am sure my point about IF'S was neither mute nor moot. Sleep tight, may lethal illnesses never affect your children.

Logical Fallacy

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Can any one explain to me how the hell this place cost 5 million????
Theres only 8 beds in it.

Does that money cover staff costs as well? because even though I m not an expert in contruction or medicine- Im pretty sure I could have built an 8 bedroom unit for an awful lot less than that..

I know the 5 million is not about the construction of the hospice itself but i might as well hit you with some knowledge.

Building a medical building is a detailed and costly project. It's not a case of retrofitting a normal building...you need to take into account all kinds of things.

To give just one example for each bed you need to be able to provide medical gases...oxygen and the like. To carry these gasses you need and incredible standard of construction in the pipe work and the safety systems. They need back ups and the back ups need back ups. A system failure would literally mean death. Off the top of my head i can't quite remember but i seem to recall a need for at least 5 different gases in a medical facility.

The safety standards and minimal requirements for a building like that are, quite rightly, incredibly high....so yes, the building itself would have been very costly to build.

lastlaugh

EGAR wrote: »

Ah yes, and there is the magic word again: *IF* and since you are not AGAIN *if if's and when's*. As for the rest: anal (I hope I spelled that right ).

What exactly is your problem with what I've posted so far?

EGAR wrote: »

I am sure my point about IF'S was neither mute nor moot. Sleep tight, may lethal illnesses never affect your children.

WTF? I can't say I really like the tone of that.

EGAR

lastlaugh wrote: »

WTF? I can't say I really like the tone of that.

You said *Good night* - I merely wished you the same and expressed a wish that your children will never need the service of the LauraLynn Hospice.

Paranoid much..?

lastlaugh

EGAR wrote: »

You said *Good night* - I merely wished you the same and expressed a wish that your children will never need the service of the LauraLynn Hospice.

Paranoid much..?

Not Paranoid, you just give me the creeps.

EGAR

lastlaugh wrote: »

Not Paranoid, you just give me the creeps.

I aim to please .