How I object to election posters... :)

chrisdus

Hello all,

Seeing my beautiful street yet again being spoiled by the large posters being hung on every lamp post, I decided to check on line and with citizens information what we can do about it, and share it with you some ideas on the subject.. (Or, basically what I'm currently doing..)

1) Get yourself acquainted with the rules.
http://www.dublincity.ie/YourCouncil/VotingandElections/Pages/GeneralElection2011ElectionPostering.aspx
http://www.environ.ie/en/

2) Send mails to (or call) the candidates campaign offices (adresses below) to object and send them a request to take them down, mention the street of course.

3) If they do respond and take them down, mention that here, it's good to know in general who responds. If not, the only wayt is to try to catch them on 'badly placed; posters.. Brings me to:

4) Take a photo if a poster is in breach of the rules, and mail that to customerservices@dublincity.ie. (Please also upload the image on this thread (public shame board!) so we can get the counsel to fine them.)

5) Try to organize the street to sign a petition and send a copy of that to every campaign office.

Some contact information (feel free to add phone numbers and other mail addresses here to the thread!):

http://www.marydavis.ie/mary-davis/contact/
mary@marydavis.ie

http://www.seangallagher.com/2011/contact-sean/
together@seangallagher.com

http://www.michaeldhiggins.ie/contact/
info@michaeldhiggins.ie

http://www.dana-music.com/contact-dana-catholic-music.html

http://gaymitchell2011.ie/contact/

Happy protesting, and let me know how you get on of course!

Regards,
Chris

PS: I'm not a pensioner, I'm a 33 year old non-Irish dude and just think it's wrong to spend A) all this money, and make Dublin so ugly as it is a really great city without the posters! For your information, in our country we do not allow posters like this.. If you want to advertise, you simply hang your poster on special allocated billboards, or rent commercial space. Nuff said!

thebman

Don't know why they aren't already banned, if nobody has them, what difference does it make?

Can't believe the Greens didn't get this done during their time in office.

chrisdus

@thebman: I agree.. that would have been a good thing, but sadly they are also deeply engraved that posters are a MUST have... I've heard rumors that the posters cost around 7 million euro's a year to print, place and take down again... think of how many families would have been helped in these difficult economic times!

Anyway, on a positive note, I had my first reply since I started mailed mailing all the offices with the request to take down the posters:

<QUOTE>

Dear Chris

Many thanks for your email. I am going to forward your email to the campaign organisers in your area for appropriate action.

Best wishes

Michael D
www.michaeld.ie

</QUOTE>

Let's see if they do what they preach.. will keep you 'postered'.

(UPDATE/EDIT: I've also let Michael D. Higgins office know that I keep a public thread here on my attempts to have some form of positive input on the Irish society.. )

thebman

Sean Gallagher speaking against them on 6.1. Michael D defending them ...

chrisdus

PS: As the thebman so kindly pointed out, that the Greens COULD have banned them, I invited them to reply to this thread, let's see what they come up with as a reason... (Send to: info@greenparty.ie)

chrisdus

Please note that Dublin City Counsil will handle complaints of any posters that are deemed to be causing a hazard to motorists or pedestrians and they are contactable @ 2221000 or email customerservices@dublincity.ie

The following guidelines may be helpful in ensuring that posters are not a hazard to the public:

- Posters should be erected at a minimum height of 2.3 metres above footpaths, cycle tracks or any area to which pedestrians have access

- Posters should not be erected on lamp standards with overhead line electricity feed, traffic signal poles, bridge parapets, overpasses, pedestrian bridges, or roadside traffic barriers

- Posters should not obscure statutory road signs or traffic/pedestrian signals in any way

- Posters should be securely fixed to poles with cable ties or similar material to facilitate removal without damage to the poles

- Please note that cable ties be should be removed when the posters are being taken down.

bijapos

thebman wrote: »

Don't know why they aren't already banned, if nobody has them, what difference does it make?

Can't believe the Greens didn't get this done during their time in office.

Its actually up to an individual council to ban them if they want, some towns such as Westport have already done so.

The main reason given for not banning them is that pokiticians feel that its the best way to get their names to be known. Note that it is their names, not their message that they are trying to get across. Generally speaking the more posters a candidate puts up the more recognised they are and the elected ones are thus loathe to see them banned.

The Greens introduced spending limits on elections which would have necessarily meant limiting the amount of posters being put up, but these regulations seem to have been breached with impunity.

anymore

chrisdus wrote: »

PS: As the thebman so kindly pointed out, that the Greens COULD have banned them, I invited them to reply to this thread, let's see what they come up with as a reason... (Send to: info@greenparty.ie)

I am afraid my own local former green Td and then senator, Mr dan Boyle showed not the remotest interest in the visual environment and his former colleague Chris O Leary was jsut as disinterested. So that might explain the lack of willingness on the Green Party to ban posters. Scary stories about bloody Polar bears were much more their style !

Liam Byrne

Oh the irony of the OP posting this in the elections thread......you gotta love the English language.

Right with you on the posters.....if you don't know what someone looks like or what they represent, then you shouldn't be voting - and you shouldn't need a poster to jog your memory.

Election posters of all types should be banned.

thebman

bijapos wrote: »

Its actually up to an individual council to ban them if they want, some towns such as Westport have already done so.

The main reason given for not banning them is that pokiticians feel that its the best way to get their names to be known. Note that it is their names, not their message that they are trying to get across. Generally speaking the more posters a candidate puts up the more recognised they are and the elected ones are thus loathe to see them banned.

The Greens introduced spending limits on elections which would have necessarily meant limiting the amount of posters being put up, but these regulations seem to have been breached with impunity.

They could just people to wear Mickey Mouse style suits with name tags on them, probably more effective :P

If they all ban them then no effect is lot for anyone. Websites, a state broadcaster, public debates etc..., there is simply no need for them.

I don't get their logic but I guess politicians aren't always known to be logical.

MadsL

make Dublin so ugly as it is a really great city without the posters! For your information, in our country we do not allow posters like this.. If you want to advertise, you simply hang your poster on special allocated billboards, or rent commercial space. Nuff said!

Chris - you are a legend. Well done.

As far as Dublin advertising is concerned too many illegal fabric banners around this city too. They can also be reported to planningenforcement@dublincity.ie - feel free to include anything with a Dublin City Logo on it too - they often 'forget' to get planning too.

chrisdus

Gallagher pledges a poster free campaign for Dublin

Independent Presidential candidate, Seán Gallagher has today pledged a poster free campaign for Dublin.

Speaking on the day he handed in his nomination papers, Mr. Gallagher said that he would not be using lamp-post posters during the election campaign.

“I have made the decision not to use lamp-post posters during this campaign.” “During my listening tour of the country I have heard from Councillors, community groups and Tidy Towns Committees who have all implored me not to use posters as they are a source of unsightly litter in their towns and villages. I want to acknowledge their views and take them into account during my campaign.”

“I am hopeful that Tidy Town committees and Residents in Dublin will welcome this move.” “There is a real need for leadership in this Presidential campaign.” “There are a limited number of candidates in this campaign, and it is a national campaign so there is no need for posters.”

“As a candidate I will have opportunities in print and broadcast media to communicate with the electorate as well as using social media which has revolutionised the way in which we can get messages out.”

“We need to change the old ways of doing things. This is not a party political campaign and multiple posters adorning lamp-posts have no place, in my view.”

ENDS


I applaud you, Sean..

anymore

chrisdus wrote: »

Hello all,

Seeing my beautiful street yet again being spoiled by the large posters being hung on every lamp post, I decided to check on line and with citizens information what we can do about it, and share it with you some ideas on the subject.. (Or, basically what I'm currently doing..)

1) Get yourself acquainted with the rules.
http://www.dublincity.ie/YourCouncil/VotingandElections/Pages/GeneralElection2011ElectionPostering.aspx
http://www.environ.ie/en/

2) Send mails to (or call) the candidates campaign offices (adresses below) to object and send them a request to take them down, mention the street of course.

3) If they do respond and take them down, mention that here, it's good to know in general who responds. If not, the only wayt is to try to catch them on 'badly placed; posters.. Brings me to:

4) Take a photo if a poster is in breach of the rules, and mail that to customerservices@dublincity.ie. (Please also upload the image on this thread (public shame board!) so we can get the counsel to fine them.)

5) Try to organize the street to sign a petition and send a copy of that to every campaign office.

Some contact information (feel free to add phone numbers and other mail addresses here to the thread!):

http://www.marydavis.ie/mary-davis/contact/
mary@marydavis.ie

http://www.seangallagher.com/2011/contact-sean/
together@seangallagher.com

http://www.michaeldhiggins.ie/contact/
info@michaeldhiggins.ie

http://www.dana-music.com/contact-dana-catholic-music.html

http://gaymitchell2011.ie/contact/

Happy protesting, and let me know how you get on of course!

Regards,
Chris

PS: I'm not a pensioner, I'm a 33 year old non-Irish dude and just think it's wrong to spend A) all this money, and make Dublin so ugly as it is a really great city without the posters! For your information, in our country we do not allow posters like this.. If you want to advertise, you simply hang your poster on special allocated billboards, or rent commercial space. Nuff said!

Well done on posting this thread and for the efforts you are making on behalf of our visual environment. I wonder how many of the candidates who will loudly proclaim thier record of support of the ' The Arts and Culture' actulaly regard our visual environment as something worth preserving ?
I wonder if there is enough support to make this a nation wide campaign.
Here is a slightly funny related story. The charming towm of Kinsale does prohibit election posters - good for them. But the problem is that a variety of Kinsale's organisations are increasingly putting up illegal advertising posters on the approach roads and major roundabouts of Cork city. Apparently the good town of Kinsale doesnt mind polluting other towns and cities.

bluefinger

I live along the grand canal and have to say i was appalled by the number of posters that ended up in there after the last election. they're now still there as an archive of election candidates of the past. oh the irony of seeing a poster with a local green party candidate visage polluting the environment. i will definitely keep those guidelines in this time round though.

chrisdus

As bijapos so kindly pointed out that only your local council can change a policy whether to, or not to allow posters, I've contacted DublinCity,ie to find my local council, and they provided me with a link where you can find yours too:

http://www.dublincity.ie/YourCouncil/Councillors/Pages/FullCouncillorList.aspx

I am now going to contact them and ask for advise on how to get things changed locally.

Once I know how, I will create a template, which readers on this board can download, fill in, and send on to their local council to object and request them to change the policy.

If we all do this en mass, I am sure we can have some form of influence, right? We ARE the system, or ..?

chrisdus

bluefinger wrote: »

I live along the grand canal and have to say i was appalled by the number of posters that ended up in there after the last election. they're now still there as an archive of election candidates of the past. oh the irony of seeing a poster with a local green party candidate visage polluting the environment. i will definitely keep those guidelines in this time round though.

FYI: I've just taken photo's of posters which do not comply with the regulations along the way from my office to my house, this includes the Grand Canal area too.

Results:
- 14 posters belonging to one campaigner do not comply with the regulations
- Lots of them are hung too low (less that 2.3 metres above the footpath)
- Some of these could be considered a safety risk, either flapping in the wind half over the road or half in front of traffic lights
- Some of these are attached to posts with overhead line electricity feeds

I will upload here and report to the council IF the owner does not reply to my second mail to him with these results. *I mean, you have to give people a chance right?*

http://www.dublincity.ie/YourCouncil/VotingandElections/Pages/GeneralElection2011ElectionPostering.aspx states "Any posters found to be in place at any time outside of the statutory timescale will result in the issuing of a fine of €150 per individual poster."

I just wonder if they get fined if the Dublin City Council has to remove them because of the reasons listed above? You can calculate the possible fine yourself is this indeed applies..

chrisdus

Hmmm... I've just received a reply from one of the members of my local city council (from the Labor Party), who denies that a council has any power to prevent posters being erected.. Sounds a bit weird, as when I phoned their customer service, the lady on the phone gave me the advise to contact them, as they would have that power.. (...)

So, I've challenged his statement by sending him a link to this article:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/town-bans-election-posters-405985.html

He then changed his tone, to saying: "Kinsale Town Council banned them in their entire area of jurisdiction. That would be a lot harder to do in a City like Dublin and I do now think you could have partial exclusions in some parts of the Area and nto others."

So, in essence .. it IS possible, but he still does not tell me HOW I can get this organized, or rally for this change.. (Will query him again on that tomorrow..)

A second council member also came back to me (who's with Fine Gael) that he feels the cable ties are the worst bit, as they usually stay and form a hazard. I've asked him again how people can change the policy, as he totally ignored my question, or just didn't read it of course, I'll also give him the benefit of the doubt..

Ah.. politics..

anymore

chrisdus wrote: »

Hmmm... I've just received a reply from one of the members of my local city council (from the Labor Party), who denies that a council has any power to prevent posters being erected.. Sounds a bit weird, as when I phoned their customer service, the lady on the phone gave me the advise to contact them, as they would have that power.. (...)

So, I've challenged his statement by sending him a link to this article:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/town-bans-election-posters-405985.html

He then changed his tone, to saying: "Kinsale Town Council banned them in their entire area of jurisdiction. That would be a lot harder to do in a City like Dublin and I do now think you could have partial exclusions in some parts of the Area and nto others."

So, in essence .. it IS possible, but he still does not tell me HOW I can get this organized, or rally for this change.. (Will query him again on that tomorrow..)

A second council member also came back to me (who's with Fine Gael) that he feels the cable ties are the worst bit, as they usually stay and form a hazard. I've asked him again how people can change the policy, as he totally ignored my question, or just didn't read it of course, I'll also give him the benefit of the doubt..

Ah.. politics..

From memeory The Litter acts do allow the erection of political posters within set periods beofre an election with the proviso that they be taken down within a set period after the election.
As far as i know the Kinsale ban is acatually a voluntary arrangement by all concerned and doesnt have any legal backing.

MadsL

anymore wrote: »

As far as i know the Kinsale ban is acatually a voluntary arrangement by all concerned and doesnt have any legal backing.

A change in the Litter act would effectively remove all election posters if the provisions were removed . Local Authorities then could remove posters and fine litterers (candidates).

However I fear cute hoors with gable walls and trailers.

IMO cable ties should be printed with the name of the candidate.

chrisdus

anymore wrote: »

From memeory The Litter acts do allow the erection of political posters within set periods beofre an election with the proviso that they be taken down within a set period after the election.
As far as i know the Kinsale ban is acatually a voluntary arrangement by all concerned and doesnt have any legal backing.

Good info.. A quote from the Litter Act states:

Posters and signs

The law forbids the putting up of posters/signs on poles or other structures in public places unless you have the written permission of the owner of the pole or other structure in advance of putting up the posters/signs and requires that an article or advertisement must carry the name and address of the person:

- Who is promoting or arranging the meeting or event being advertised, or
In any other case, on whose behalf the article or advertisement is being exhibited.
- Following an election, a party/candidate must remove posters within a seven day period. After that date, an on-the-spot fine of €150 is issued by the local authority in respect of each offence. Your local authority will remove the poster and issue a fine. If a party/candidate has been issued with a fine and refuses to pay, they can be prosecuted. The maximum penalty on summary conviction for non-payment of the fine is €3,000.

This (I think) means that very year a candidate must request permission to put posters everywhere..? Should we try to make the owner of the lamp posts (would that be the state itself?) to have a policy to reject these requests then?

chrisdus

anymore wrote: »

From memeory The Litter acts do allow the erection of political posters within set periods beofre an election with the proviso that they be taken down within a set period after the election.
As far as i know the Kinsale ban is acatually a voluntary arrangement by all concerned and doesnt have any legal backing.

Hi anymore.. I have sent a mail to the Kinsale council earlier today to request more information on the exact details of their policy, how they implemented it, and if they can give me any advise on how to get the same done in Dublin.

(Will update this thread as soon as I have more information on that of course.)

anymore

chrisdus wrote: »

Hi anymore.. I have sent a mail to the Kinsale council earlier today to request more information on the exact details of their policy, how they implemented it, and if they can give me any advise on how to get the same done in Dublin.

(Will update this thread as soon as I have more information on that of course.)

Good for yiu. I must admit I followed the progress of a friend who was corresponding with Cork City Council on these matters and it was depressing rewading their replies. I assume the Kinsale are more attuned to thier envoronment given the voluntary ban they arranged.

anymore

chrisdus wrote: »

Good info.. A quote from the Litter Act states:

Posters and signs

The law forbids the putting up of posters/signs on poles or other structures in public places unless you have the written permission of the owner of the pole or other structure in advance of putting up the posters/signs and requires that an article or advertisement must carry the name and address of the person:

- Who is promoting or arranging the meeting or event being advertised, or
In any other case, on whose behalf the article or advertisement is being exhibited.
- Following an election, a party/candidate must remove posters within a seven day period. After that date, an on-the-spot fine of €150 is issued by the local authority in respect of each offence. Your local authority will remove the poster and issue a fine. If a party/candidate has been issued with a fine and refuses to pay, they can be prosecuted. The maximum penalty on summary conviction for non-payment of the fine is €3,000.

This (I think) means that very year a candidate must request permission to put posters everywhere..? Should we try to make the owner of the lamp posts (would that be the state itself?) to have a policy to reject these requests then?

The Litter act specifies that prosecutions wont be brought for posters up within the appropriate time period, so permission doesnt have to be sought for posters everywhere as far as the Legislation is concerned. So people can put up as many election posters as they like on public property like light poles etc. I suppose in theory the ESB etc could insist that politicians ask permission but that isnt likely to happen. And of course politicians should ask permission before putting them up on private property as a courtesy.
IF you or I wanted to just put up say advertising posters on private property or on property owned by the State, we should first get permission from the owners in writing. If the owners have given permission then we cant get prosecuted under the Litter Acts. However in theory we should get planning permission for signs under the planning acts - presumably there are guidelines regarding sizes etc. However it looks like many Local Authorities dont bother too much about offences under the Planning Acts as far as advertising signs are concerned.

chrisdus

Some updates again:

1) ESB says: "I can confirm that ESB do not own the lamp posts in Ireland. Public lights are usually owned by the cooperation or council and are sometimes privately owned." - So, approaching ESB to not allow posters to be hung up is not an option.

2) I have been asked by 2 people from my local council to meet them and discuss the topic, I will try and plan this for next week.

3) The Gay Mitchell campaign office did not respond after I mailed them information on certain posters which were incorrectly hung up, so now it's no secret anymore.. His campaign crew working on the posters have clearly NOT been briefed about the regulations.. I am going to send these images to the city council now too.

Eliot Rosewater

MadsL wrote: »

IMO cable ties should be printed with the name of the candidate.

Indeed - it is always frustrating after elections to see many posters taken down but the cable ties still up. One boards.ie member suggested having cable ties coloured by party - but there would be an inevitable fight between SF, The Greens and FF over green!

thebman

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Indeed - it is always frustrating after elections to see many posters taken down but the cable ties still up. One boards.ie member suggested having cable ties coloured by party - but there would be an inevitable fight between SF, The Greens and FF over green!

Don't give anybody Green then

Better yet, make them as non-political colours as possible and put them in strips of colours that allow various combinations so everyone has the same colours but in a different arrangement. That way nobody can say they got the bad colour cable ties :P

Hell even better ban the things altogether and we won't need any over the top regulations on heights etc... and nobody could violate them. Almost like everybody wins with this option

InigoMontoya

I wouldn't necessarily ban them, but I would designate a limited number of locations where each candidate can display one poster. This practice of having them on every bloody lamp-post and all along various roads is absurd and wasteful.

thebman

InigoMontoya wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily ban them, but I would designate a limited number of locations where each candidate can display one poster. This practice of having them on every bloody lamp-post and all along various roads is absurd and wasteful.

Well what benefit do they offer that giving free T-Shirts or badges or paying to get their faces on the side of milk cartons or some other form of marketing couldn't achieve on the side of the street?

Even if you ban the posters, they can still buy access to billboards in towns. They really achieve very little that other forms of marketing can't and with the disadvantage of a massive litter problem.

I think it is a bit annoying to see the same politicians that come out saying we need to do things about the litter problem when reports come out with litter blackspots then put up election posters.

chrisdus

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Indeed - it is always frustrating after elections to see many posters taken down but the cable ties still up. One boards.ie member suggested having cable ties coloured by party - but there would be an inevitable fight between SF, The Greens and FF over green!

We could investigate whether we can enforce bio degradable cable ties, that stay 'alive' for 3 the duration of the campaigns, but that's a last resort.. I'd rather get the posters banned by policy, or the council can allocate one big bill board for every candidate..

chrisdus

chrisdus wrote: »

3) The Gay Mitchell campaign office did not respond after I mailed them information on certain posters which were incorrectly hung up, so now it's no secret anymore.. His campaign crew working on the posters have clearly NOT been briefed about the regulations.. I am going to send these images to the city council now too.

After I sent the images to the council, they were internally forwarded to the Waste Management department, who will action on these.. I will keep you informed..

thebman

chrisdus wrote: »

We could investigate whether we can enforce bio degradable cable ties, that stay 'alive' for 3 the duration of the campaigns, but that's a last resort.. I'd rather get the posters banned by policy, or the council can allocate one big bill board for every candidate..

Well one of the issues is after the last general election, a poster was thrown into the backyard of the house I rent.

What is most annoying is that it probably wasn't even that candidate or there supporters that did this.

So there is no real accountability or enforcement that works for something as random as throwing posters up everywhere because some drunk person can just pull them down and throw them around the place or any other number of variations on the above.

Nobody has yet come up with a good reason why we can't ban them and use other marketing other than lack of imagination on the part of the candidates.

If Sean Gallagher focused on alternative marketing and pushed this, he might get some more votes on top of the not using election posters initiative he has as it would show he is very serious about this issue.

At the moment, I'm wondering if I should give him a preference but feel inclined not to do so for what I see as a celebrity candidate.